The Landover Baptist Church Forum - Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

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Bobby-Joe

10-01-2010 08:04 PM

Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Atheists demand scientific proof God exists, as if The Bible isn't enough. Well here are six of them.

#1 First Cause.
There is no first cause without God. As Thomas Aquinas said "Nothing is caused by itself. Every effect has a prior cause. This leads to a regression of events were one thing caused another. Logically this regression has to be terminated by a first cause, which we call "God." God, by definition is the creator of the universe. So in short; the universe has a creator so therefor God exists.

#2 Mountains of Evidence for Intelligent Design
One just has to look at diseases like Malaria, Salmonella and Ebola that kill millions by cunningly turn the bodies defenses against itself to know that there is an intelligence guiding the development of life. Something so insidiously complex as these diseases has to be a creation, not a random event and as we have already PROVEN that the creator is by definition God.

#3 Personal Observation.
Like many of Christians I have felt the presence of God in my life and heard His voice talking to me. Further more I have survived numerous attempts on my life in my job and escaped contracting AIDs even though I have to have contact with witches. I KNOW God exists.

#4 Heisenberg uncertainty principle
Since we can not prove anything exist in Quantum Mechanics we can't disprove anything. If we can't disprove God existence then logically God has to exist.

#5 The Law of Information
The Law of Information states that all coded information is the product of an intelligent being. DNA is such an example of coded information so logically DNA is the proof of an intelligent creator and not random chance. DNA is found in all living things. The only intelligent being capable of placing DNA in all living things is God.

#6 God is the greatest thing Imaginable,
Humans have never been able to imagine anything greater than God. Clearly we must have reason to imagine God. Further more something must be limiting our imaginations or we would come up with something greater than God. The only thing that can limit human imagination is God.

There you have it, six arguments that prove God exists.

I await your rebuttals Atheists.

Viggo B. Kristoffersen

10-01-2010 08:44 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

GLORY! You preach it, Brother.

When it's so obvious that God exists, and we even have plenty of scientific proof of it, I can't help wondering if we, the True Christians™, are the only people born with a brain. It's really very simple, and still we meet so many who can't accept the facts.

Pastor Isaac Peters

10-01-2010 09:01 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viggo B. Kristoffersen (Post 609078)

Brother, I fear it's worse than that. The evidence for the existence of God is so overwhelming that no one can possibly deny it:

Romans 1:18-21: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

That is, unbelievers know that God exists; they just have such a strong emotional need for God not to exist that they ignore reality in favor of their fantasy.

Lycia The Repentant

10-01-2010 09:12 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

You can also remind them that even Aristotle, the Greek who is credited with the foundations of most of modern "science", proved that God existed!

His arguement:

There exists movement in the world.
Things that move were set into motion by something else.
If everything that moves were caused to move by something else, there would be an infinite chain of causes. This can't happen.
Thus, there must have been something that caused the first movement.
From 3, this first cause cannot itself have been moved.
From 4, there must be an unmoved mover. (i.e. God)

If even a heathen Greek figured it out around 350 BC, why is it taking atheists so long? :wacko:

roger85

10-07-2010 02:21 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe (Post 609067)

Atheists demand scientific proof God exists, as if The Bible isn't enough. Well here are six of them.

#1 First Cause.
There is no first cause without God. As Thomas Aquinas said "Nothing is caused by itself. Every effect has a prior cause. This leads to a regress. This has to be terminated by a first cause, which we call God." God, by definition is the creator of the universe. Obviously the universe has a creator so therefor God exists.

#2 Mountains of Evidence for Intelligent Design
One just has to look at diseases like Malaria, Salmonella and Ebola that cunningly turn the bodies defenses against itself to know that there is an intelligence guiding the development of life. Something so insidiously complex has to be the creation, and as we have already PROVEN a creator is by definition God.

#3 Personal Observation.
Like many of Christians I have felt the presence of God in my life and heard His voice talking to me. Further more I have survived numerous attempts on my life in my job and escaped contacting AIDs even though I have to have contact with witches. I KNOW God exists.

#4 Heisenberg uncertainty principle
Since we can not prove anything exist in Quatom mechanics we can't disprove anything. If we can't disprove God then logically God has to exist.

#5 The Law of Information
The Law of Information states that all coded information is the product of an intelligent being. DNA is such a code. The only intelligent being who could have produced it God.

#6 God is the greatest thing Imaginable,
Humans have never been able to imagine anything greater than God. Clearly we must have reason to imagine God. Further more something must be limiting our imaginations and the only thing that can do that is God.

There you have it, six arguments that prove God exists.

I away your rebuttals Atheists.

#1 What created God? If there was a first cause, what was god's first cause? The universe is infinite, there is no outside to it, so how can it be created?

#2 The creator of these such disease are called parasites.

#3 The voices in your head is your conscience speaking to you.

#4 If by logic god exists, where is he?

#5 All coded information is the product of an intelligent being. The only intelligent being who could have produced it God. - What is God's DNA then since he is an intelligent being.

#6 True, humans can't imagine anything greater than God, because god is an imagination. God is limiting our imagination because God is created by our brain, our imagination. Imaginations don't exist.

Ezekiel Bathfire

10-07-2010 02:38 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

1. God is outside the dimensions we can experience: Psalms:90:4: For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. The universe is finite but expanding; that’s the way He made it. You ask how it could be created… well it’s here isn’t it? It MUST have been created.

2. Of the three causes of disease quoted only Malaria is truly parasitical.

3. “The voices in your head,” as you describe them, arise only after your conscience has pricked you; it is therefore not your conscience but Divine Guidance.

4. God is outside space and time

5. Asking for God’s DNA is a bit stupid. I don’t even know yours, how could I know God’s?

6. I am unconvinced by your argument that seems strangely circular.

roger85

10-07-2010 03:03 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire (Post 612288)

1. As of right now, there is not proof that the universe is finite. No human have reached the end of it. Unlike earth, we know it's finite because if we start out here, head west, we will eventually end up back here and that is where it ends. When you are asked "how is this or that created", you don't actually answer "how" it is, you answer, it's here, so it must have been created. So it's in fact that you have no proof of anything.

2. Yea, and some are bacteria and virus, which are the creator of disease.

3. Definition of conscience

motivation deriving logically from ethical or moral principles that govern a person's thoughts and actions

conformity to one's own sense of right conduct; "a person of unflagging conscience"
a feeling of shame when you do something immoral; "he has no conscience about his cruelty"

It's nothing divine, it's just a person's thoughts and belief.

4. If an object or being is outside of space, cannot be seen by the human eye, if it cannot be tracked by time, it does not exist. Much like the universe, scientists use the word "universe" to define what is beyond earth, it has not been proven to exist.

5. You know what my question meant. If God exists, he must have DNA, did the bible mention what it was?

6. Let's make it straight then. Nobody has truly seen God. God is within our imagination. The voices in our head is a part of our imagination. Imaginations does not exist.

Brother Temperance

10-07-2010 04:05 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger85 (Post 612276)

#1 What created God? If there was a first cause, what was god's first cause? The universe is infinite, there is no outside to it, so how can it be created?

By God, that's how. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it; the fact that it's not logically possible is proof that it must have been created by an extra-logical being, i.e. God.

Quote:

#2 The creator of these such disease are called parasites.

That's right, blame the Jews. :glare: There is no room for anti-Semitism here, friend.

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#3 The voices in your head is your conscience speaking to you.

And who created my conscience? I can't have done so, therefore it must have been God.

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#4 If by logic god exists, where is he?

In Heaven. That's pretty logical.

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#5 All coded information is the product of an intelligent being. The only intelligent being who could have produced it God. - What is God's DNA then since he is an intelligent being.

Do you know the difference between being the product of something and producing something? :huh: Saying that all coded information is the product of an intelligent being does not mean that all intelligent beings are produced by coded information.

Quote:

#6 True, humans can't imagine anything greater than God, because god is an imagination. God is limiting our imagination because God is created by our brain, our imagination. Imaginations don't exist.

Obviously wrong. If imaginations don't exist, then how come I can imagine stuff? I can imagine God, therefore my imagination exists, therefore God exists.

Ezekiel Bathfire

10-07-2010 05:33 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger85 (Post 612300)

1. As of right now, there is not proof that the universe is finite. No human have reached the end of it.

Roger… Roger… you do not actually have to go somewhere to know it exists…

Quote:

so it must have been created. So it's in fact that you have no proof of anything.

Roger, your logic fails. We are here aren’t we? It must have come from somewhere.

Quote:

3. Definition of conscience… It's nothing divine, it's just a person's thoughts and belief.

If you read what I wrote, you would see that the process is,
See a sinner sinning
Consider if the sin is punishable. If so, I should punish it.
Consult conscience, Conscience says, “OK”
Jesus speaks to me, “Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.”

Thus it would be wrong for me to punish the person for his sin. So it is clear that my conscience has been overruled by God.

Quote:

4. If an object or being is outside of space, cannot be seen by the human eye, if it cannot be tracked by time, it does not exist.

Roger, how old are you? Can you not believe that there are other dimensions? We cannot experience them but this does not mean they are not there. Look at stupid scientists; even they talk of 11 dimensions in their so-called “String Theory”.

Quote:

5. You know what my question meant. If God exists, he must have DNA, did the bible mention what it was?

Quote:

6. Let's make it straight then. Nobody has truly seen God.

Well, that’s a theological debate, isn’t it. The Bible tells of people who actually saw God (but not his face).

roger85

10-08-2010 01:37 AM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Temperance (Post 612335)

By God, that's how. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it; the fact that it's not logically possible is proof that it must have been created by an extra-logical being, i.e. God.

And what supports this statement that you just made besides the bible? Were you there during the creation?

Quote:

That's right, blame the Jews. :glare: There is no room for anti-Semitism here, friend.

This is rather off topic. What do Christians have against Jews anyways? If there "REALLY" is god, did he not teach people to love and not be prejudice and discriminate. I "THOUGHT" in god's world, there is no hate?

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And who created my conscience? I can't have done so, therefore it must have been God.

A-hem. It's called brain chemistry. Your brain created your conscience.

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In Heaven. That's pretty logical.

Who told you aside from the bible that there is heaven? What proof do you have that heaven exists?

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I am going to take what the OP said, I never said it. All coded information is the product of an intelligent being. The only intelligent being who could have produced it God.

Quote:

Obviously wrong. If imaginations don't exist, then how come I can imagine stuff? I can imagine God, therefore my imagination exists, therefore God exists.

Technically your imaginations don't exist. They're in your head.

Realistically, if you thought of something and never produced it, they don't exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire (Post 612405)

Roger… Roger… you do not actually have to go somewhere to know it exists… Roger, your logic fails.

And how does your logic that God exists is correct? If not by being there, seeing it, feeling it, how else would we know that it exists? By imagination, imagination don't exists.

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We are here aren’t we? It must have come from somewhere.

But you have no proof where, neither do I. So this argument is invalid.

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If you read what I wrote, you would see that the process is,

Quote:

See a sinner sinning
Consider if the sin is punishable. If so, I should punish it.
Consult conscience, Conscience says, “OK”
Jesus speaks to me, “Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.”

Thus it would be wrong for me to punish the person for his sin. So it is clear that my conscience has been overruled by God.

Your conscience is your thoughts and the decision you make.

Most important part of the definition of "conscience" that you may have missed out. Ethical or moral principles.

Quote:

Don't get me wrong. I believe in other dimensions. I believe there are ghosts. I believe there are other intelligent being in outerspace.

I once believed there really is a wonderland where Alice met the Queen of Hearts and the White Rabbit. But are they real? Did they exist? No.

By believing does not make something you believe in "exist".

And no need to get insulting on scientists. They talked about other dimensions, but have they proven that it exists? No. Not even they would claim something exists until they officially prove it.

Quote:

If the Bible contained absolutely every detail on everyone since time began (6000 years ago) it would be infinite. It is not necessary for Spiritual Salvation to know God’s DNA. Further, God may or may not have DNA. Not all life forms have DNA, some only have RNA.Well, that’s a theological debate, isn’t it. The Bible tells of people who actually saw God (but not his face).

Because there is no way to scientifically prove what God's DNA is.

The original bible is extinct. So how can you say that the bible that you possess, that came from the church, that was given by a manufacturer that is mass producing these books, translated and interpreted by hundreds, if not thousands of people through the course of thousands of years, is real?

You are basing your believe that God exists because a little book told you so, but not hard evidence in front of your eyes and what is around you.

Aristotle

10-10-2010 11:37 AM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger85 (Post 612799)

And what supports this statement that you just made besides the bible? Were you there during the creation?

A silly statement, Roger. Only GOD was present at Creation. Adam came along shortly, as the first human.

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A-hem. It's called brain chemistry. Your brain created your conscience.

And who created our brain chemistry? I hope you are not going to refer to any Darwininan nonsense here. Behe already showed that theory is false.

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Who told you aside from the bible that there is heaven? What proof do you have that heaven exists?

You don't think the word of GOD is sufficient? Why would GOD lie?

braindead360

10-11-2010 06:13 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

You clearly have a weak grasp on reality and accepted science.

It is possible to disprove the christian god, all you need to do is disprove the bible. The bible is full of contradictions and bad things. It condones sexism, racism, slavery, rape, intolerance and violent murder not to mention blind faith. The i

The only reason why you believe in your religion is because by shear chance you happened to be born a christian, if you were born in a hindu family you would believe in that.

The christian god throughout the bible shows bad leadership skills, where he tries to save the hebrews with violence towards the egyptians and even kills their first borns. When he thinks that humans didnt become what he was hoping for he killed all of them with a flood. That didnt work and so he decided to come down to die for our sins. That also didnt change the world so now he is going to toss all non believers in hell and all believers live happily ever after, it hasnt worked before your god seems like he doesnt know what he is doing.

The christian god is malevolent, arrogant and full of pride, he wants to be worshiped and praised. In the bible god as killed millions. Its not free will if you say believe in me or be punished forever, that is a threat.

The fact that we're here is not proof of a creator, in the same way that the universe is not proof of a frog that spits out universes. I can imagine fairies but they dont exist, you are delusional that is clear from reading what you've written, you keep using circular reasoning and bad logic. I dont think you have ever spoken to other humans outside your community or read non religious publications.

You live in a world of fantasy. The only reason christianity is still around is because christians leaders brutally murdered non believers. Religion has been around for thousands of years yet has brought done more negative than positive in history. Science saved thousands of lives a day, i have yet to see undeniable evidence of religion saving a life.

We need less people like you, you have no sense of reason or logic, ive spoken to many christians and they are able to argue rationally you my friend are completely lost.

Hearing god is all in your head, crazy people hear all sorts of voices.

How does your god know he wasnt created. Why doesnt he just have faith that he was, is he an atheist.

Matter can come from nothing, google it. Science has given more answers than religion, saying 'it was magic' or ' god did it' is not an answer in the same way that saying fairies light up the moon is not the true answer. You dont understand the real world and you live in a world in your head.

God doesnt exist if he did we'd all be born knowing of his existance, jesus's would have appeared all over the world. The majority of criminals in prison are christian, the minority are atheist all over the world, intelligents gives better morals than the bible.

Its sad that your morals are based on fear of punishment and promise of heaven. This is what makes religious people unpredictable because they would do anything in the name of their religion even if its murder like the people who crashed into the twin towers. Their morals were not based on reason and rational thinking.

You have no respect for scientists and for people of other religions, your religion is definately not the true one, your completely lost.

All of rogers arguements were true but all your answers for them had nothing to do with anything, you kept using circular reasoning and making bold assumptions that were baseless. Trully there is no limite to the nonesense faith can make you believe, from santa to your ridiculous beliefs.

Zarachiel

10-12-2010 07:49 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe (Post 609067)

#1 First Cause.
There is no first cause without God. As Thomas Aquinas said "Nothing is caused by itself. Every effect has a prior cause. This leads to a regress. This has to be terminated by a first cause, which we call God." God, by definition is the creator of the universe. Obviously the universe has a creator so therefor God exists.

Then what is God's first cause? Thomas Aquinas said that "Nothing is caused by itself." "Nothing" implies no exceptions. Therefore Aquinas' line of reasoning must be faulty.

Zarachiel

10-12-2010 08:05 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aristotle (Post 614312)

You don't think the word of GOD is sufficient? Why would GOD lie?

Perhaps so that you would worship him?

BelieverInGod

10-12-2010 08:08 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarachiel (Post 616318)

Then what is God's first cause? Thomas Aquinas said that "Nothing is caused by itself." "Nothing" implies no exceptions. Therefore Aquinas' line of reasoning must be faulty.

God is beyond natural laws. Why do you people not understand this?

Get Real Bro

10-12-2010 08:24 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe (Post 609067)

Atheists demand scientific proof God exists, as if The Bible isn't enough. Well here are six of them.

#1 First Cause.
There is no first cause without God. As Thomas Aquinas said "Nothing is caused by itself. Every effect has a prior cause. This leads to a regress. This has to be terminated by a first cause, which we call God." God, by definition is the creator of the universe. Obviously the universe has a creator so therefor God exists.

#1: If you had more braincells, you would consider thinking: Which effect caused God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe (Post 609067)

#2 Mountains of Evidence for Intelligent Design
One just has to look at diseases like Malaria, Salmonella and Ebola that cunningly turn the bodies defenses against itself to know that there is an intelligence guiding the development of life. Something so insidiously complex has to be the creation, and as we have already PROVEN a creator is by definition God.

Nature is complex, humans are generally dumb and want to make it easy on themselves by explaining every complex structure with religion. Evolution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe (Post 609067)

#3 Personal Observation.
Like many of Christians I have felt the presence of God in my life and heard His voice talking to me. Further more I have survived numerous attempts on my life in my job and escaped contacting AIDs even though I have to have contact with witches. I KNOW God exists.

Like many of Christians you have felt the presence of a psychological error in your life and you heard nothing. Further more you have survived numerous attemps on your life in my job and escaped contacting AIDs (The syndrome? just for the I am retarded?) even though I have to have contact with imaginary monsters because my childhood turnet out bad for me. I KNOW that I use God as an excuse to be a crazy insane lunatic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe (Post 609067)

#4 Heisenberg uncertainty principle
Since we can not prove anything exist in Quatom mechanics we can't disprove anything. If we can't disprove God then logically God has to exist.

You mean Quantum mechanics? We can, it's called Electron Microscope, have you never been to a science class and learned about the EM spectrum about how different atoms radiate different colors due to the electron scale difference. You never learned about chemical connections and ionizing radiation?

All has been proven - got any proof that God exists without using quantum mechanics? heard of a THEORY, this was a theory which has been proven, god is still a theory, never to be proven.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe (Post 609067)

#5 The Law of Information
The Law of Information states that all coded information is the product of an intelligent being. DNA is such a code. The only intelligent being who could have produced it God.

Nope, the masses of chemical abundance of Carbon, Oxygen and hydrogen and various metals formed bonds through the use of energy such as lightning, light, heat and radiation, these formed many bonds and eventually after years of creation and destruction, nature, by accident created a small created, a microbe which was very inneficient. It died soon, but the organelles spawned new organismes and so the cycle of life began.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe (Post 609067)

#6 God is the greatest thing Imaginable,
Humans have never been able to imagine anything greater than God. Clearly we must have reason to imagine God. Further more something must be limiting our imaginations and the only thing that can do that is God.

A greater thing, the universe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe (Post 609067)

There you have it, six arguments that dis-prove God exists.

I away your rebuttals Atheists.

Zarachiel

10-12-2010 08:25 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by BelieverInGod (Post 616330)

God is beyond natural laws. Why do you people not understand this?

Because I need a reason. Why is God the exception?

Cranky Old Man

10-12-2010 08:31 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarachiel (Post 616339)

Because I need a reason. Why is God the exception?

Because God controls all of time and space. God created the laws of nature. So the laws of nature apply to us but not to God.

Get Real Bro

10-12-2010 08:36 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by braindead360 (Post 615450)

Matter can come from nothing, google it.

Its sad that your morals are based on fear of punishment and promise of heaven.

You have no respect for scientists and for people of other religions, your religion is definately not the true one, your completely lost.

All of rogers arguements were true but all your answers for them had nothing to do with anything, you kept using circular reasoning and making bold assumptions that were baseless. Trully there is no limite to the nonesense faith can make you believe, from santa to your ridiculous beliefs.

Great post, couldn't have said it better.

Anyways, the laws of nature and physics tell us that no energy can be created nor destroyed into/from nothingness.

Since Energy = Matter x C^2 (Where C = speed of light)
Energy and Matter aren't quite two different things, they are both related. So actually matter can't come from nothing.

Cranky Old Man

10-12-2010 08:48 PM

Re: Six scientific Extra-Biblical arguments that PROVE God exists

Quote:

Originally Posted by Get Real Bro (Post 616352)

So actually matter can't come from nothing.

Where did all matter come from?

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