Thread: Human Sacrifice
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Default Re: Human Sacrifice - 02-21-2018, 02:31 PM

Handmaiden, in a recent reply, covered this point. I was particularly amused because straight away the linked white-washing attempt is itself "refuted" by other Bible deniers! I've highlighted the link in yellow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by handmaiden View Post
Modern, self-styled "followers" of God always have to soft-soap the fierce aspect of God's character. They will twist their brains into knots trying to prove that the uncomfortable, brutal things* mentioned in the Bible did not actually take place.

This wimpy, white-washing fool is certain that Jephtah did not actually offer up his daughter to be burned in the 11th chapter of judges. He brings in all sorts of verses from other places in the Bible to prove his point.

What he is really doing is weakening the message of the Bible by picking its bones and making an over-cooked meat paste suitable for gumming by babies who can't stand up for anything, much less the Truth™.

In the verse Judges 11:31, Jephtah vows to offer something up to The Lord as a burnt offering. In Judges 11:39, the text plainly states that Jephtah did what he vowed that he would do.

But people nowadays don't want to accept the fact the God is actually pretty badass. Oh, but a God of love wouldn't allow that. A merciful God wouldn't command that. A righteous God wouldn't do that.

Grow some oath-swearing orbs people! God is who HE says He is in the Bible. He is not who you want Him to be so you can buy a stuffed toy lamb and tell your children that Jesus was the Lamb of God who was sacrificed for their sins without letting them see how messy it is when a lamb's neck is sliced open.

This bean-less weenie is going to convince people that the Bible is not internally consistant, and that it can be molded like cookie dough and sprinkled with sugar to sweeten the harsh taste of uncompromisng obediance to God.

Don't click the link that I included unless you are strong in your faith, because this guy takes all sorts of verses and uses them against each other to disprove God's Word.


* Brutal things by human standards that make people uncomfortable because they worship a God who is no bigger and more powerful then themselves.


In that link, an interpretation is applied to make the words say something they do not in fact mean. The opening gambit is more-or-less a slug discharged into the foot by stating that God did not inspire Jephthah's vow.
Quote:
What is a vow? Are vows inspired by God?
A vow is a solemn promise or engagement. Vows are not inspired by God; people make vows when they want God’s intervention in the things they want to accomplish without failure.

Sounds great! But there's two little problems, gleaned from actually reading Judges. Jephthah's history is detailed, the son of a whore ejected by his brothers for that reason but nevertheless valiant in battle and in this episode called upon by the elders of Gilead to lead Israel in a series of awkward situations. He did not claim prowess himself but acknowledged God.
Judges 11:9-10 And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, If ye bring me home again to fight against the children of Ammon, and the LORD deliver them before me, shall I be your head? And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, The LORD be witness between us, if we do not so according to thy words.
So we know quite a lot about this man. Israel prevailed under his leadership but he attributed successes to God rather than to himself. The Ammonites were serial pests needing to be subdued which meant an extensive slaughter campaign. They were blanking Jephthah: twenty cities were involved. Israel held Jephthah as the dude but Jephthah knew God was in charge and that any victory would be His. As Jephthah was contemplating the situation, this is what happened:
Judges 11:28-30a The king of the children of Ammon hearkened not unto the words of Jephthah which he sent him. Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon. And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD
Context. Under what circumstances was this vow made? The whitewashing attempt seems to suggest that the vow was offered by Jephthah and NOT demanded by God. Yes. That's what verse 30 suggests too. And that's what a vow is. Now, how about that other foot; it requires a 2nd slug. Was this vow undertaken within the Spirit of the Lord? The Bible continues:
Judges 11:30-32 Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.
I am not here to offer instruction and none is needed. I'm happy to quote the mental gymnastics and, in response, The Bible speaks for itself. Continuing on there's a third point, something called a red herring. Here we go:
Quote:
Was Jephthah a priest, thus is eligible to offer sacrifice to God? (Only priests are qualified to offer burnt offerings according to the Law)
No, Jephthah was not a priest and according to the Law of Moses only the priests are allowed to offer sacrificial offerings to God..God disapproves any offering that wasn’t presented by the priests..What’s my point you may ask? The point is that Jephthah couldn’t have done the sacrificial ceremony (burnt offering) by himself.

A number of extreme cherry-picked references are pebble-dashed throughout and I'm collecting them as I go [BELOW] but actual Christians have read The Bible and already know what it says. The argument here is that because Jephthah was not a priest he could not therefore make a sacrifice. So what? In Luke 2:22-24 Mary was able to offer a sacrifice and she was not a priest. Additionally, one of the examples is from Numbers. When non-priests get going with the sacrifices or even burning incense so as to offend God the consequences are immediate and catastrophic. In Numbers 16:32 for example, whole families swallowed by the earth with added fire jets, or in II Chronicles 26:19 instant leprosy of the head. These are conveniently ignored but King Saul gets a mention. His entire lineage was stripped of authority and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. That detail is glossed over but the point here, already known to anyone who's read The Bible, is that all these consequences are EXTREMELY NOTICEABLE. The period of the Judges predates the Kingdom yet they were at the pinnacle of authority and recommended by God as the preferred system of government. When someone makes a sacrifice, such as Mary [not a priest] or Joseph [not a priest] or Jephthah [not a priest] does that mean they personally grasp the tongs? No. Of course not. This whole argument is irrelevant. If whatever established procedures were not followed there would have been consequences. What happened to Jephthah? Judges 12:7 He was blessed with continuing victories and was respected as a Judge of Israel for the rest of his life.




This is what happens when people think they know better than God and apply their own secret meanings to words which are not what the word itself is ever used to signify. This is one of the more extreme examples and is self refuting when it's claimed that since the burnt offering is to be eaten by the priests they would have to eat this daughter!
Quote:
Furthermore, the burnt offering is to be eaten by the priests; unless these skeptics and critics can find any biblical verse that supports cannibalism.

But right at the beginning it was claimed, indeed this is the whole point of the argument, that Jephthah's offering lay OUTSIDE the Deuteronomic tradition. And if that's your position then you can't pull up something from WITHIN the code and remain coherent. This sacrifice was NOT offered improperly..the consequences for doing so are extreme and immediate..Jephthah's current undertaking was blessed, he acknowledged God, his future undertakings were also blessed and his authority was increased. If such sacrifices were unacceptable to God how could He accept the sacrifice of His own son?




Quote:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . PEDANTS CORNER

CHERRY PICKED . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .NOT CHERRY PICKED

Leviticus 1:5-9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Leviticus 1:2–10:2
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .includes Leviticus 3:1


Numbers 2:5-10; 18:7-8 . . . . . . . . . . Numbers 2:1–18:32
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .includes Numbers 16:1-50


I Samuel 13:9-14 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I Samuel 12-13–16:23
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .includes I Samuel 16:14


Deuteronomy 12:5-7, 11-14; 17:1-9 . .Deuteronomy 1:1–34:12
Deuteronomy 12:31; 18:10; 20:1-9
Deuteronomy 12:6-7, 27
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