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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-23-2008, 10:56 PM

Pastor Ezekiel, I'm surprised you're trying to use the hammer as evidence. Its been long debunked. It had been carbon dated and found to be at the most 700 yrs old. Also since it was loose nodule sitting on surface, there is not evidence to connect it with the local bedrock. You can find many excellent articles on the hammer that show why, on its own, it lacks the evidence to support the anti-evolution claims and also how the testing allowed verifies the conclusion drawn from visual inspection. Here is one example article.

http://paleo.cc/paluxy/hammer.htm

Also, your list of questions is a very poor attempt to disprove evolution. I would recommend that you do the research using reputable resources such as scholarly papers from respectable peer review journals to answer all of these questions yourself. It would take me far too long to explain and educate you on Evolution, Abiogenesis, Physics, Geology, Genetics, and other sciences. This board is not a science class and it is not my responsibility to do the foot work you should do before you make unsupported assertions like this. I will go as far as to say that there is an astounding amount of evidence in the science I mentioned to support the slow natural process from simple to complex. Your assertion is that something complex was created by something even more complex which you have no supporting evidence for but you accept as true. That is circular reasoning and like shooting yourself in the proverbial foot.

Well, that enough for now since this is my first post!

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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-23-2008, 10:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Atomic Chimp View Post
>>>>Blah Blah Blah<<<<

Well, that enough for now since this is my first post!

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I suggest you use your second post in the Introduction Forum.
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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-23-2008, 11:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Atomic Chimp View Post
I would recommend that you do the research using reputable resources such as scholarly papers from respectable peer review journals to answer all of these questions yourself.
Yes, why not read a bunch of atheists prattle on and support each other in making stuff up to try and drive a wedge between humanity and God?
No thank you. The Bible has lasted millennia without nonsense like "peer review" as the Lord has no peer, and none of it has ever been proved wrong.


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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-23-2008, 11:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Sister Mary Maria View Post
Yes, why not read a bunch of atheists prattle on and support each other in making stuff up to try and drive a wedge between humanity and God?
No thank you. The Bible has lasted millennia without nonsense like "peer review" as the Lord has no peer, and none of it has ever been proved wrong.
Mary and Talitha, I have read and still read the bible. I understand it very well since I grew up Christian and served the church until I was college age. I would like to see your evidence to support the assertion that the bible you read is the word of your god. As for your assertion that "...none of it has ever been proved wrong.", have you read your own bible without your Christian goggles?! There are many errors in the bible. I would like an explanation of the why it contradicts itself in certain parts, it preaches things we would consider to be cruel and morally incorrect and contains passages that are historically incorrect. If you want a starter for where its incorrect, please show me the historical evidence Moses and the events that are connected to him took place. This will be difficult since Egyptian history shows this to be incorrect and the lack of archaeological evidence that should have been left behind by a large group of people who spent 30 years in the desert. I think you and I differ in one specific way, When I read something whether its scientific, or religious in nature, I don't believe it immediately, I do research myself to either confirm or refute the claims I've read. As new information is found, I do the process all over again. I do this to assure the information I accept is correct. I don't trust something just because I'm told so. This is how all science works and that is why it has been the most successful method of learning we've found.

As for the information I spoke of being atheists prattle, you are incorrect. The information I speak of comes from the same scholarly sources that we use for medicine, computer sciences, etc. If you doubt these sources or methods of learning please stop using your computer or visiting you local doctor because (to name a few) it all is just atheist nonsense. As a matter of fact definitely forget about modern medicine since its built on evolutionary sciences. Who needs something that was developed from this eviloution nonsense. Next time you're very sick if you really believe evolution and the sciences are wrong, and you have such faith in your religion, just go directly to church and pray to get well. I'll warn you though, the last time I heard about a persons religion getting in the way of proper medical treatment in America, the poor boy died.

Also, I don't understand why you think it drives a wedge between Humanity and god. I know many very religious people and scientists who find no problem accepting evolution and god together.

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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-23-2008, 11:40 PM

Blah blah blah. I'm sorry, but I see no point in reading all of that. You're just trying to turn me away from my salvation, and it's not going to work. I love God, I know He's real, and that's that.


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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 12:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Sister Mary Maria View Post
Blah blah blah. I'm sorry, but I see no point in reading all of that. You're just trying to turn me away from my salvation, and it's not going to work. I love God, I know He's real, and that's that.

No, you can accept god and I have no problem with that. I have no ill intentions to change your religious belief and I apologize if I gave that impression. I only brought religion into this because you made the flawed statement that the bible has never been shown to be incorrect, to support your claims. If you'd like to continue a religious debate I could but thats not the point of my posting here.

Its the part about promoting information that is scientifically incorrect that I have a problem with. For many years I was an educator from elementary to college level, so things that undermine a good education upset me. We live in a country who's economy depends on scientific advancements. The misinformation you promote not only prevents children form getting the proper education they deserves but also hurts our countries economy. Also, the the information you use to try to undermine the science has been long refuted. I would hope you could give a more well thought out, up to date claims in your attempt to refute the sciences.

One more thing, why are you so resistant to read what I or anyone writes that doesn't agree with your belief. I do that all the time. Why do you think I'm on a board like this? Why do I read the bible still? Why do I keep up to date on all claims that refute evolution? If you want to really educate yourself and expand your understanding of something you need to read all views no matter how much they seem incorrect. If you're so confident of you own beliefs, reading another's view shouldn't sway you at all. Blinding yourself of other view only cheats you of a well rounded knowledge of the subject.

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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 12:22 AM

Here is a great example, Concerning the fossil record, you responded in a previous post:

"You mean those bones that were hardened by the sheer weight of water during the Flood?"

Fossilization is due to the slow replacement of biological matter with minerals, not a great weight hardening them. Also the geological record does not in any way support the claim of a flood. As a matter of fact it supports the age of the earth being far, far, far more than 4000-6000 years old. If you want to believe that the flood did happen at sometime in history, go right ahead, but please do not try to use and twist and change science and education to prove your point. It not only hurts the education of the kids of America, it also make you religion look bad when what you think is supporting it, only shows that you do not have an understanding of the evidence and of the science you speak of. When you can't back up big assertions like this, it only makes people feel they cannot trust any claims you make.

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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 12:26 AM

This little monkey worshiper is here to sow seeds of discord, mock christ, and persecute us for following the Holy Word of God rather than his dark masters (Darwin, Marx and satan). We cannot be dissuaded from our Divine Mission so easily, however. Praise Jesus!

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


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Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 12:28 AM

Dear Lord, please help guide this sinner to Your loving arms, and to help him find the truth of history as written in Your Holy Word. Please lift the clouds from his eyes so that he may know You and find comfort in Your love as we do. Lord, please help him see the error of his ways so that he can stop trying to fill the minds of those not yet saved with lies, and he can stop trying to tempt those of us who are saved away from You. Please help him to see that this so-called "science" he venerates is the work of Satan, and only through the Bible can he find the truth. Please help him into the light.
In Jesus name I pray.
Amen.


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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 12:46 AM

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Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
This little monkey worshiper is here to sow seeds of discord, mock christ, and persecute us for following the Holy Word of God rather than his dark masters (Darwin, Marx and satan). We cannot be dissuaded from our Divine Mission so easily, however. Praise Jesus!
Again, I'm not trying to change you religious beliefs, I have many friends of various beliefs and respect that. I'm only here to correct the flawed reasoning, misunderstandings, logical fallacies and incorrect information that you promote concerning the sciences. You speak like you are very knowledgeable and well educated about the sciences though you statements speak differently about you. Unfortunately for those who are less scientifically informed take the things you assert as facts. I would suggest respect those who are well qualified for educating the public concerning the sciences and that you speak only about the matters you have an erudition in.

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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 12:53 AM

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Again, I'm not trying to change you religious beliefs, I have many friends of various beliefs and respect that. I'm only here to correct the flawed reasoning, misunderstandings, logical fallacies and incorrect information that you promote concerning the sciences. You speak like you are very knowledgeable and well educated about the sciences though you statements speak differently about you. Unfortunately for those who are less scientifically informed take the things you assert as facts. I would suggest respect those who are well qualified for educating the public concerning the sciences and that you speak only about the matters you have an erudition in.

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Tell me, Radioactive Monkey, how is it that you can "respect" beliefs which you must view as inherently false and ridiculous? We don't "respect" lies, we call them out for what they are.

Also, if you "respect" others' beliefs, then how can you turn around and suggest that we should allow our children to be brainwashed into believing that the Word of God is a lie?

Creation is spelled out explicitly in the Bible. There's no reference to evolution. Asking us to tell our kids it's OK to believe in evolution is like asking us to tell them that snakes and asses don't talk, and that God isn't who He says He is.


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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 12:56 AM

Maria, you call what I mention "so-called 'science' ". Again, I'll mention that this so called science is the backbone of biology and modern medicine. If you truly believe it is the work of satan, please discontinue all visits to your doctor, the hospital and the taking of any form of medication since they all are developed through the application of evolutionary sciences. Make sure your kids do not get any inoculation to protect them form any kind of disease because they too are due to the evilution you feel is so wrong.

You can believe in any god you wish, and I can respect that, just don't preach about the things you don't have a proper education in.

If you feel you can prove these sciences are wrong, please educate me with the evidence and citation to back up your assertions.

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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 01:06 AM

Jenny, there was a time where the popular religious view promoted the idea that the sun orbited the earth. Galileo was punished for pointing out the scientific truth.

Please show me where the rabbits that eat its chud are or grasshoppers with only four legs are. The bible speak of both of those things. Also, why not teach that PI is only 3 not 3.14.... the bible claims that too. My point is that religion is a philosophical spiritual belief system, not a science. Again and Again through history religion has stood up against scientific advancements and truths and each time it eventually gives in when the church finally realizes it was incorrect in trying to use the bible as a science book.

Again you can believe in any god just don't try to mix it with science. Even the astronomer at the Vatican believe that by doing this you hurt not only science but also you religion. BTW, he is a scientist too!

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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 01:20 AM

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Jenny, there was a time where the popular religious view promoted the idea that the sun orbited the earth. Galileo was punished for pointing out the scientific truth.

Please show me where the rabbits that eat its chud are or grasshoppers with only four legs are. The bible speak of both of those things. Also, why not teach that PI is only 3 not 3.14.... the bible claims that too. My point is that religion is a philosophical spiritual belief system, not a science. Again and Again through history religion has stood up against scientific advancements and truths and each time it eventually gives in when the church finally realizes it was incorrect in trying to use the bible as a science book.

Again you can believe in any god just don't try to mix it with science. Even the astronomer at the Vatican believe that by doing this you hurt not only science but also you religion. BTW, he is a scientist too!

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Um, rabbits DO chew their CUD, and grasshoppers have 4 legs and 2 arms.

God's Word is God's Word. Either it's what the Creator of the Universe wants us to read and believe, or He has deliberately misled us, or there is no Creator.

I'm guessing you prefer the final option.


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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 01:57 AM

I don't think he prefers the last one, that's just the one that scientific evidence points too.


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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 02:13 AM

Hi again Jenny, You responded with, "Um, rabbits DO chew their CUD, and grasshoppers have 4 legs and 2 arms."

Cud is, "Food regurgitated from the first stomach to the mouth of a ruminant and chewed again."Rabbit do not regurgitate food.The food passes all absorption points in their digestive system to the cecum, which is a complicated organ that redigests the food. Then they cecum forces the material back into the colon where it is coated with mucus, then pooped out as cecotrophes. The rabbit then eats the cecotrophes and it is digested correctly. This is a much different process than animals who eat cud.

As for the grasshopper with four legs, let me correct the statement, its says they have four feet. I do not know of any
entomologist nor any person who things that grasshoppers have 2 arms. I'm not sure where you get your definition of what arms and legs are or if you've really looked closely at a grasshopper, but it has 6 legs as it should.

I notices you didn't mention how PI is incorrect in the bible. These are only a few examples too.

I'm not claiming this proves god doesn't exist.
I'm saying that you scientific beliefs you draw from the bible of are taught are incorrect and that the bible cannot be used as a science book. Many generation have misinterpreted the bible to make science claims that were proven incorrect. If you believe the bible can prove science facts please write a paper and submit it for the noble or templeton award, because you'd surely be awarded it if you could prove that it is scientifically correct.

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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 02:22 AM

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I don't think he prefers the last one, that's just the one that scientific evidence points too.
You are correct LingBlingDingDong, I go where the evidence leads me, but leave it up to others to make their own choice concerning belief in a higher power.

As for science though, believe what you wish but if you try to educate the public with flawed reasoning and scientific misinformation, as an educator I have to step in and point these things out. From your previous posts LingBlingDingDong, I can only assume we're on the same page about that too.

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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 02:28 AM

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Originally Posted by Atomic Chimp View Post
Hi again Jenny, You responded with, "Um, rabbits DO chew their CUD, and grasshoppers have 4 legs and 2 arms."

Cud is, "Food regurgitated from the first stomach to the mouth of a ruminant and chewed again."Rabbit do not regurgitate food.The food passes all absorption points in their digestive system to the cecum, which is a complicated organ that redigests the food. Then they cecum forces the material back into the colon where it is coated with mucus, then pooped out as cecotrophes. The rabbit then eats the cecotrophes and it is digested correctly. This is a much different process than animals who eat cud.

As for the grasshopper with four legs, let me correct the statement, its says they have four feet. I do not know of any entomologist nor any person who things that grasshoppers have 2 arms. I'm not sure where you get your definition of what arms and legs are or if you've really looked closely at a grasshopper, but it has 6 legs as it should.

I notices you didn't mention how PI is incorrect in the bible. These are only a few examples too.

I'm not claiming this proves god doesn't exist. I'm saying that you scientific beliefs you draw from the bible of are taught are incorrect and that the bible cannot be used as a science book. Many generation have misinterpreted the bible to make science claims that were proven incorrect. If you believe the bible can prove science facts please write a paper and submit it for the noble or templeton award, because you'd surely be awarded it if you could prove that it is scientifically correct.

Word is Bond!
~Atomic Chimp
To elaborate more on Rabbits' digestive systems, the rabbit uses symbiotic relationships with organisms - protists or bacteria, I can't really remember which one - to absorb the nutrients of more hard-to-digest carbohydrates, like cellulose. This raises another question I have. If every creature was perfect in God's image, then why would one organism (the rabbit) need help from another organism (bacteria or protists) to digest their food?


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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 02:29 AM

You will convince nobody here of your atheistic philosophies, Monkey. This is a Bible-believing, Christian church forum, and you are blaspheming God and insulting His Creation with your "science".


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Default Re: Richard Dawkins runs amok in Minnesota Movie theater! - 03-24-2008, 02:45 AM

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... but leave it up to others to make their own choice concerning belief in a higher power.

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But what if the choices they make can be detrimental to the soceity as a whole?


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