[demosfen]

This may be of help to anyone looking to recover from KJV-only malaise. Was reading my KJV the other day and found yet another error -

Mat 27:9 Then what had been declared through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled when he said, "They took the 30 pieces of silver, the value of the man on whom a price had been set by the Israelis,


Prophet Jeremiah never prophesied about 30 pieces of silver, the prophecy is actually in Zechariah 11:12,13

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by demosfen

This may be of help to anyone looking to recover from KJV-only malaise. Was reading my KJV the other day and found yet another error -

Mat 27:9 Then what had been declared through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled when he said, "They took the 30 pieces of silver, the value of the man on whom a price had been set by the Israelis,


Prophet Jeremiah never prophesied about 30 pieces of silver, the prophecy is actually in Zechariah 11:12,13

Dear girl,

What on Earth does this have to do KJV or the false translations?
NIV: Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on him by the people of Israel,
NET: Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “They took the thirty silver coins, the price of the one whose price had been set by the people of Israel
Duay-Rheims: Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremias the prophet, saying: And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was prized, whom they prized of the children of Israel.

And the Greek text: τοτε επληρωθη το ρηθεν δια ιερεμιου του προφητου λεγοντος και ελαβον τα τριακοντα αργυρια την τιμην του τετιμημενου ον ετιμησαντο απο υιων ισραηλ

The same prophet in all these, I didn't list all of them, as no need to repeat it endlessly.

In fact, your post has nothing to do with KJV vs. the false translations but with exegetics and people trying to find contradictions in the Bible. By associating your "finding" to the KJV-false translations debate you are employing irrational thinking patterns. Pseudodiagnostics implies that you are taking a piece of data that is per se existing but using it to prove a point that is irrelevant to the data. In addition, you have fallen into confirmation bias by seeing the information through you bias against KJV.

While the actual issue (Jeremy vs. Other prophets) may merit discussion, that discussion is about the reliability of the Biblical text itself. It has nothing to do with the KJV debate, as KJV is faithful to the original - in this case the others are, as well. Of course, this issue has been thoroughly discussed in various commentaries.

From the site your links refer to:

... unquestionably the name Jeremiah is the wording of the original here, because it is supported by virtually all witnesses and because it is the harder reading.

See, no relevance to KJV. Actually, you are claiming that God made a mistake when He dictated the Bible to the scribes.

Please, research an issue before going ballistic about it.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[demosfen]

God made no mistake. All your English Bibles are translated from erroneous Greek manuscripts by men. Never did Jeremiah prophecy about 30 pieces of silver. The Hebrew manuscripts of the book of Matthew correctly refer to prophet Zechariah.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by demosfen

God made no mistake. All your English Bibles are translated from erroneous Greek manuscripts by men. Never did Jeremiah prophecy about 30 pieces of silver. The Hebrew manuscripts of the book of Matthew correctly refer to prophet Zechariah.

You could not be more wrong. Please read my sermon on the subject HERE.

[demosfen]

I am not finding anything in your sermon about why the book of Matthew in KJV had to be translated from the Greek manuscripts rather than the more reliable Hebrew ones. Obviously the latter don't have the error in question

[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by demosfen

God made no mistake. All your English Bibles are translated from erroneous Greek manuscripts by men. Never did Jeremiah prophecy about 30 pieces of silver. The Hebrew manuscripts of the book of Matthew correctly refer to prophet Zechariah.

Originally Posted by demosfen

I am not finding anything in your sermon about why the book of Matthew in KJV had to be translated from the Greek manuscripts rather than the more reliable Hebrew ones. Obviously the latter don't have the error in question

It would help if you posted the Hebrew manuscript to support your claim.

Never did Jeremiah prophecy about 30 pieces of silver.

How do you know that? We do not have every word spoken by Jeremiah recorded. It is quite possible that EVERY prophet prophecised about 30 pieces of silver. You have made the claim, the onus is on you to support your claims.

God knows who says what, when. God also knows who else is aware of that. God communicates to people using language they can understand. What is your source for Hebrew vocabulary? When God worked with Moses there were events and characters involved additional to those recorded in the books he wrote. For example we do not have the names of everyone participating in the golden calf orgy. Does that mean there was no orgy?

Timothy knew about Moses, more than just what Moses himself recorded in Exodus for us. When Paul wrote to Timothy he was able to include the following passage:

ὁν τροπον δε Ἰαννης και Ἰαμβρης ἀντεστησαν Μωϋσει, οὑτως και οὑτοι ἀνθιστανται τῃ ἀληθειᾳ, ἀνθρωποι κατεφθαρμενοι τον νουν, ἀδοκιμοι περι την πιστιν. ἀλλ’ οὐ προκοψουσιν ἐπι πλειον· ἡ γαρ ἀνοια αὐτων ἐκδηλος ἐσται πασιν, ὡς και ἡ ἐκεινων ἐγενετο.
UBS III

Now you will be aware that those two are not mentioned in Exodus but was Paul in error? God would certainly know all about them AND that Timothy was aware of their antics—pathetic half baked antics as you will recall from your knowledge of the source material—but does our only Scriptural reference being in Greek mean that we should seek out a Hexateuch done in heiroglyphics?

Of course not. God has preserved His Inerrant Word for all time and through it He speaks to us all, those of us in perfection just as to dissipated wretches staggering from one bordello to the next in thrall to gin and toadstools and even, were you to actually read it, in the demosfenian dystopia.

We are all waiting for your source material. I have posted mine (in support of a claim re. Jannes and Jambres). Over to you..

[Elmer G. White]

Originally Posted by demosfen

God made no mistake. All your English Bibles are translated from erroneous Greek manuscripts by men. Never did Jeremiah prophecy about 30 pieces of silver. The Hebrew manuscripts of the book of Matthew correctly refer to prophet Zechariah.

You are persistent but unfortunately not very original nor able to provide references. As my primary objective is to gain your soul to Jesus I offer you first two viewpoints from the perspective of Bible study and thereafter the actual issue, God's Word.

1. We are well aware of claims that state that a Hebrew text would be the original of NT, too. To demonstrate this, other atheists have tried various strategies including this apparent discrepancy. They point out apparent semitisms in the texts of Mark and Matthew, not Luke, though (they always complement his Greek). You must remember that the degree of education was not similar to all authors during the antiquity, either (as we can see here between you and our more educated members). To demonstrate the Hebrew original, it would have to be somewhere as an older manuscript than the Greek ones and, please, don't give me the "Q" or (God forbid) the Peshitta (which is in Aramaic). The sources are, thus, fictional or hypothetical whereas the Greek manuscripts are real tangible objects in libraries. They almost always agree. Which ones should we trust? Real or made-up texts?

A good treatise of the issue by Mr. Warner states:

The Hebrew New Testament proponents would have us trust them to fix the faulty Scriptures, by relying on their supposed knowledge of Jewish customs and figures of speech. In short, we need to sit at the feet of rabbis in order to understand what was written. But, by editing the text of the New Testament to conform to so-called Jewish thought only leads AWAY from the message preserved by the providence of God. God promised to preserve His Word for every generation [Psalm 12:6,7 Matt. 24:35]. God kept His word! The Traditional Greek text of the New Testament is reliable. Any changing [regardless of motive] of what has been preserved by God is a blatant violation of the commandment found in the last chapter of Revelation. Those who remove words that God has preserved in His Word, will be removed from the “Book of Life,” and those who add to His words, to them God will add the plagues.

Another relatively useful and albeit simplified explanation is available in AiG (I am, however, a bit reluctant to rely on their liberal views).

Still another good discussion is available in Apologetics press as follows

It is not until one peruses the pages of Jeremiah that one sees the striking resemblance, first to Zechariah, and then to Matthew’s narrative. Zechariah’s allusion to the potter harks back to the imagery and symbolism of Jeremiah. But Matthew’s allusion to the potter’s field harks back to Jeremiah—not Zechariah. So Matthew was demonstrating the overriding superintendence of the Holy Spirit, Who was combining and summarizing elements of prophetic symbolism both from Zechariah and from Jeremiah.

2. I must also assess your strategy. What you are doing is raising the bar without acknowledging your previous failures. You started by mocking the KJV as a translation. As it was demonstrated that all the later translations agree, you moved the goalposts to the Greek original by claiming that to be flawed. This is discursive strategy that combined with the missing references is, in my experience, very effective among high-school kids but, dear child, it does not work here. This leads to the next step...

3. What you are actually attempting is becoming crystal clear now. You are trying to undermine Trust in the Bible. Some translations (Peshitta as the most abhorrent example) have in logical desperation tried to fix "errors" in God's word. They do not refer to Jeremiah nor Zechariach but only a "prophet". This is in direct opposition to God's orders.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

What you are doing is exactly this, diminishing God's word. I do not say that this in intentional, as you might be sincere in your skewed fantasy.

Don't you see that it is a simple TEST? An ingenious one. God can easily distinguish between True Believers™ and heathens by placing apparent "contradictions" in His text. We just have to Trust that everything he dictated in true and beautiful. Fear, trust, love, follow and first and foremost accept His Word as IT IS with no modifications.

He has also WARNED that He might try strategies such as apparent "errors". He CAN deceive and He has done so previously when fighting against His enemies.

Jeremiah 4:10
Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.

Isaiah 66:4
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Can't you see? This is what has happened to you. You have failed the test to TRUST God and you have believed delusions. Hopefully, it is not too late for you to repent...

...but it might be. As God's Word, the Bible, was transmitted via the Holy Ghost, I am afraid that you might, just might have blasphemed against the HOLY GHOST (Matthew 12:31-31), which is, of course, the End...

God does not have to play your game of petty "errors" and "contradictions". He just IS. You can start by this verse. It is mind-blowing. It tells you all you need to know at the moment.

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THATI AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Pastor Rune Enoe]

Originally Posted by demosfen

The Hebrew manuscripts of the book of Matthew correctly refer to prophet Zechariah.

Originally Posted by demosfen

. . . why the book of Matthew in KJV had to be translated from the Greek manuscripts rather than the more reliable Hebrew ones . . .

What "Hebrew manuscripts"? The entire New Testament was written in Koine Greek.

Concerning the alleged contradiction, I'll refer to my little treatise, A Jew is a Jew is a Jew

[demosfen]

BTW I don't want to leave an impression that getting the prophets mixed up in Mat 27:9 is the only error in KJV. There is plenty more where it came from, of course users like me don't have the privileges to start new threads here to avoid the KJV-Only agenda from being exposed. Censorship aside, moderate KJVmostlyism is hands down where the truth is.

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by demosfen

BTW I don't want to leave an impression that getting the prophets mixed up in Mat 27:9 is the only error in KJV. There is plenty more where it came from, of course users like me don't have the privileges to start new threads here to avoid the KJV-Only agenda from being exposed. Censorship aside, moderate KJVmostlyism is hands down where the truth is.

Oh, dear. I understand that what Brother Elmer says is too smart for you to understand (sometimes, I feel the same way, which is natural, because he is a man and I'm just a woman), so I'll try to put what he said in terms even you should be able to comprehend:

THE NAME OF THE SAME PROPHET APPEARS IN ALL VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE, NOT JUST KJV.

I hope that was helpful.

[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by demosfen

...of course users like me don't have the privileges to start new threads here to avoid the KJV-Only agenda from being exposed...

As if they've ever made any secret of it!

...Censorship aside...

Stop it, yer killin' me.

... moderate KJVmostlyism is hands down where the truth is.

That's where God agrees exactly with all of your fears and biases, isn't it?