[Dorkfeather21]

I have decided to come back and perhaps be a bit more... Polite, in my speaking with this place of Christian worship.

So, as this is an introduction forum, allow my to introduce myself. I am Christopher. I was raised a member of the Southern Baptist community, before the church I went to was kicked out of the SBC for being too inclusive of non-Baptists.

I am now... Well, I'm not a Wiccan, as some of you might recall. Not anymore. I have actually decided to follow in the footsteps of my uncle and become a Gnostic.
For those unaware, Gnosticism is the teaching based on Gnosis, which is the knowledge of transcendence arrived at by interior, intuitive views.

Any questions, my dear fellows at the Landover Baptist church?

[Nobar King]

Why do you insist on persecuting us and spitting in the face of Baby Jesus?

[MaroneyBaloney]

Nobar,
Not every action that doesn't follow the interests of Christianity is evil, you commit the fallacy of assuming a false dichotomy. If you wanted him to change, you'd discuss with him the error of his own ways without insulting him. Tolerance and understanding will let you convert, intolerance and aggression will shun.

[Dorkfeather21]

Originally Posted by Nobar King

Why do you insist on persecuting us and spitting in the face of Baby Jesus?

That is a good question, but I believe I have a better one.

On what evidence do you base these accusations?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by Miss Manners

Nobar,
Not every action that doesn't follow the interests of Christianity is evil, you commit the fallacy of assuming a false dichotomy. If you wanted him to change, you'd discuss with him the error of his own ways without insulting him. Tolerance and understanding will let you convert, intolerance and aggression will shun.

You're mistaken, friend. The Holy Bible tells us plainly that he who does not love and serve Jesus, loves and serves the devil instead (Luke 11:23). You'd know that if you knew the Holy Word of God.

[Dorkfeather21]

Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda

You're mistaken, friend. The Holy Bible tells us plainly that he who does not love and serve Jesus, loves and serves the devil instead (Luke 11:23). You'd know that if you knew the Holy Word of God.

My dear Mary, that quote actually does not say that those who do not love and serve Jesus love and serve the devil.

Actually, if I may, I would like to point out that no one should serve Jesus. I believe one of his many points was that you are not supposed to deify Jesus, but worship his Father, from whom Jesus received his power.

[MaroneyBaloney]

Here's a thought,
What if many of the mentalities of aggression and non-acceptance were placed with the motivations of ancient ethnocentrism? America as a country has become the dominant power with increasing cooperation and acceptance of other cultures. Why can't Christians do the same, especially if America is God's chosen country?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by Dorkfeather21

My dear Mary, that quote actually does not say that those who do not love and serve Jesus love and serve the devil.

Actually, if I may, I would like to point out that no one should serve Jesus. I believe one of his many points was that you are not supposed to deify Jesus, but worship his Father, from whom Jesus received his power.

For someone who likes to argue, you'd do yourself a favor by actually familiarizing yourself with the thing against which you like to argue. For example, Jesus and the Father are one, He says so very plainly (John 10:30). He tells us that if we love Him, He will love us (John 14:21), and He will know we love Him by our unflinching obedience to his command (John 14:15), every one (James 2:10).

Originally Posted by Maroney00

Here's a thought,
What if many of the mentalities of aggression and non-acceptance were placed with the motivations of ancient ethnocentrism? America as a country has become the dominant power with increasing cooperation and acceptance of other cultures. Why can't Christians do the same, especially if America is God's chosen country?

America is a dominant power because we are blessed by the LORD. This much is clear. We are blessed because we were created to be the very City on a Hill the Lord Jesus Himself speaks about (Matthew 5:14-16)

[John Winthrop's sermon, City upon a Hill, 1630]

[MaroneyBaloney]

Actually from what I recall, Jerusalem was promised by God to be the dominant power. However, it's somewhat telling that you ignore my point on acceptance and cooperation.

[Dorkfeather21]

Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda

For someone who likes to argue, you'd do yourself a favor by actually familiarizing yourself with the thing against which you like to argue. For example, Jesus and the Father are one, He says so very plainly (John 10:30). He tells us that if we love Him, He will love us (John 14:21), and He will know we love Him by our unflinching obedience to his command (John 14:15), every one (James 2:10).

I have a copy of the Christian holy text right next to me. I have read it cover to cover. It was a very interesting read.

While Jesus did say that he and the Father are one, he followed this by stating that the Scripture reads "I have said you are gods", this directed at all those who have heard the words of the Father, meaning that in truth, all who live and follow the teachings of the Father are one with the Father.

The rest you have used in the proper context and I will leave alone.

And I must commend you on your ability to remain in the New Testament. I have known many Christians who fail in that regard.

[JustGotSaved]

Originally Posted by Dorkfeather21

It was a very interesting read.

It is not my habit to stick my head where it doesn't belong, but I would like to do so in this case. Without discussing the content of this thread, i would like to say that i've always had an unpleasant cringe reaction when people say, "it was a good read", or any variant of that.

"read", is a verb, is it not? (I'm not even picking on Mr Dorkfeather, it's a sort of rhetorical rant i'm going through.)

It's like saying, "it was a good drive," or, "it was a good walk". Wait, those examples dont help my case....

Well, maybe eventually i'll get used to it, but until then i have a personal armageddon-style hate at seeing it.

(I suppose i wont have a cow if a moderator deletes this, since it does nothing for the discussion.)

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by Dorkfeather21

I have actually decided to follow in the footsteps of my uncle and become a Gnostic.
For those unaware, Gnosticism is the teaching based on Gnosis, which is the knowledge of transcendence arrived at by interior, intuitive views.

Any questions, my dear fellows at the Landover Baptist church?

Actually, yes. I'm not sure how familiar are you with gnosticism, but I'll assume that you know more than what you explained, so I'll ask directly - which side did you decide to bet on? The good or the bad? It must be really scary to be a gnostic, let's say that you decided to support the "good" god, you will continue to be scared all your life, because if at the end the demiurge wins, you will be punished for all of your good deeds!

Oh, heathens can be so funny sometimes! Thanks for being the Only Real God!

Originally Posted by Dorkfeather21

And I must commend you on your ability to remain in the New Testament. I have known many Christians who fail in that regard.

What's wrong with citing the Old Testament, sweetie?

[Dorkfeather21]

Originally Posted by Basilissa

Actually, yes. I'm not sure how familiar are you with gnosticism, but I'll assume that you know more than what you explained, so I'll ask directly - which side did you decide to bet on? The good or the bad? It must be really scary to be a gnostic, let's say that you decided to support the "good" god, you will continue to be scared all your life, because if at the end the demiurge wins, you will be punished for all of your good deeds!

Oh, heathens can be so funny sometimes! Thanks for being the Only Real God!

Well, that should be rather obvious. I have decided to follow the ideals of The One which created everything, in order to reach Gnosis and be free from the material control of the Demiurgos and his Archons.

Rather interesting that you say that, actually, as it is believed by the Gnostics that Jesus is not the son of the Demiurgos, but indeed a messenger sent from The One.

Originally Posted by Basilissa

What's wrong with citing the Old Testament, sweetie?

Well, nothing. But when you're arguing Christian values and laws, it's best to take them from Jesus, rather than the dated laws and arguments of the Old Testament.

[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by JustGotSaved

...i've always had an unpleasant cringe reaction when people say, "it was a good read", or any variant of that.

"read", is a verb, is it not?...

The way Dorkfeather used it, it is a verbal noun, commonly confused for but not quite the same thing as a gerund. If you want to learn about them, click the links.

/pedant

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by Dorkfeather21

Well, that should be rather obvious. I have decided to follow the ideals of The One which created everything, in order to reach Gnosis and be free from the material control of the Demiurgos and his Archons.

You need to do a little bit more of reading about gnosis, buddy: actually, Demiurge is the creator, not the "good" divinity (Ahura Mazda or whatever you call it).

Rather interesting that you say that, actually, as it is believed by the Gnostics that Jesus is not the son of the Demiurgos, but indeed a messenger sent from The One.

And came out of Mary's belly in form of light, and materialized outside. I know, I've read the apocrypha. Actually, I think this particular story (was it St. Thomas apocrypha gospel?) might be the culprit for the Catholics' obsession with Mary's virginity.

Well, nothing. But when you're arguing Christian values and laws, it's best to take them from Jesus, rather than the dated laws and arguments of the Old Testament.

I looked at my Bible and I haven't seen an expiration date on my OT.

On the contrary, I did find this verse:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by Dorkfeather21

I have a copy of the Christian holy text right next to me. I have read it cover to cover. It was a very interesting read.

While Jesus did say that he and the Father are one, he followed this by stating that the Scripture reads "I have said you are gods", this directed at all those who have heard the words of the Father, meaning that in truth, all who live and follow the teachings of the Father are one with the Father.

The rest you have used in the proper context and I will leave alone.

And I must commend you on your ability to remain in the New Testament. I have known many Christians who fail in that regard.

Your confusion stems from your ignorance, dear. You can't hope to read the Holy Bible in some casual regard. This love letter from the Creator of the Universe to the simple human is the very Word of God, not some simple Heaving Bosom Romance like Outlander. The love letter isn't meant to be read superficially, or in a dirty way, or as an exercise in egomasturbation, it's meant to be spiritually absorbed, as a catalyst for Real Change. You can't do that by just... reading it. You have to read it with an open heart and with a prayerful resolve to listen to the prompting of the Holy Ghost, whom you can imagine is sitting over your shoulder reading with you.

When one reads the Holy Bible as a whole, as a kind of Spiritual Opus to man, he will no doubt recognize the reference to Psalm 82:6 when Jesus quotes it (John 10:34). The Hebrew word translated "gods" in Psalm 82 is Elohim. It usually refers to the One True God, but it does have other uses. The Psalmist tells us that God presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the "gods" (Psalm 82:1). It is clear from the next three verses (Psalm 82:1-8) that the word "gods" refers to magistrates, judges, and other people who hold positions of authority and rule, not a false deity like Thor or Zeus. That would be silly. The Righteous Believer recognizes the purpose of using this particular verbiage. Firstly, God's appointed authority has authority over other human beings. Secondly, the power he wields as a civil authority is to be respected. Thirdly, he derives his power and authority from God Himself, who is pictured as judging the whole earth in verse 8.

The Thoughtful Reader will not be alarmed at this, for he will have come across this expression elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He encourage him by saying he had made you Moses like God to Pharaoh, and his brother Aaron will be like his own personal prophet. (Exodus 7:1). And again, the Hebrew word Elohim is translated as "judges" in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28. You see? Not literal "gods," but figurative "gods." This is an important distinction dear, and one a True Christian™ would not mistake.

The whole point of Psalm 82 is to express the fact that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people.

If you know this, which you would if you read the Holy Bible as a whole, and understood when Jesus is speaking in context, you'd know that Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). Jews respond in typical paranoid fashion by charging Jesus with blasphemy. Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding them that God is Lord over them in the same way magistrates are lords over their earthly charge. But He goes one further by illustrating the point of difference in this analogy. You see, if those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered "gods" over others, how much more important and Holy is Jesus (verses 34-36)? The Jews still don't understand, and sadly, it appears you don't either.

Perhaps you've made the mistake Mormons have. Mormons, being nearly as thoughtless and short-sighted as Jews, decided that prayerfully reading the Holy Bible was too hard, so they decided that when the Bible says the word "gods," they might as well read it as "deities." And so they argue they are reading the Holy Bible literally when they say the Bible supports their foolish theology (that men will become gods of their own outer space planets).

I hope that helps, dear, and I hope you open your heart to Christ.

[Godsnotdead316]

:face palm:
so yeah im nineteen but this is NOT the love of jesus MY god jesus Christ calls us to luv everyone but hate sin homosexuality is sin but god doesn't hate gays just like hate is a sin but god does not hate you there is no such thing as a good person jesus died because we couldn't earn salvation WE COULD NOT PAY THE PRICE anyone who calls themselves a good person and says they earned theyre salvation I would call their heart into question (p.s. sorry but I saw star wars I just had to put it on LOVE STAR WARS) #godsnotdead #YOLO #jesusismyhomeboy

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Originally Posted by Godsnotdead316

:face palm:
so yeah im nineteen but this is NOT the love of jesus MY god jesus Christ calls us to luv everyone but hate sin

We are to hate both the sin and the sinner:

[Psalm 139:21-22 KJV] 21 Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

homosexuality is sin but god doesn't hate gays

He doesn't?

[Psalm 5:4-5 KJV] 4 For thou [art] not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. 5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

just like hate is a sin but god does not hate you

See above.

there is no such thing as a good person jesus died because we couldn't earn salvation WE COULD NOT PAY THE PRICE anyone who calls themselves a good person and says they earned theyre salvation I would call their heart into question (p.s. sorry but I saw star wars I just had to put it on LOVE STAR WARS) #godsnotdead #YOLO #jesusismyhomeboy

Which one of us Landover Baptists said that we had earned our salvation?

[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by Godsnotdead316

...so yeah im nineteen...

So how have you made it this far through life without managing to absorb even the rudiments of grammar and punctuation?

And if you want to claim the Bible says something, remember: "No Scripture, no proof".

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by Godsnotdead316

#YOLO

So you have no faith that we will live again in Heaven? Nor that Jesus conquered death?