[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by Xanax

...Why do you listen to your pastor then...

Check out my title and awards, you so observant.

... Is God not enough?...

That's what you're saying, that Christ's message is insufficient for your happiness, that you need to look elsewhere.


And that's why you are not Christian, and should just stop trying to identify with these people, as their interests are NOT yours.

[Xanax]

Originally Posted by Didymus Much

Check out my title and awards, you so observant.





That's what you're saying, that Christ's message is insufficient for your happiness, that you need to look elsewhere.


And that's why you are not Christian, and should just stop trying to identify with these people, as their interests are NOT yours.

I am a Christian. Nothing anyone says will change that. Twenty-one pilots are Christians and they use their music to help people. Is there anything in the Bible that says there is anything wrong with that? As I said a few times earlier, God can use people to spread His message and help people. As Christians, we are the light to the world. Other people should be able to see Christ in us. And that is what twenty-one pilots are doing.

[Dana723]

Originally Posted by Didymus Much

Add it to the long list.


If the Creator of the universe, all life, everything everywhere everywhen, is insufficient, yet a vapid, mediocre, platitude-spewing boyband "encourages" you, how is that evidence that Christ is really in you?

I guess when you take Xanax so much that you use it as your forum name, you stay confused an awful lot.

[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by Xanax

I am a Christian. Nothing anyone says will change that. Twenty-one pilots are Christians and they use their music to help people. Is there anything in the Bible that says there is anything wrong with that? As I said a few times earlier, God can use people to spread His message and help people. As Christians, we are the light to the world. Other people should be able to see Christ in us. And that is what twenty-one pilots are doing.

But that's not what they're doing. Christians never sin. The Bible teaches that it's impossible for Christians to sin.

I John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

You see, I didn't just dream something up to suit. There it is directly from God speaking to us through The Bible. Let's have a look at what The Pilots have to say, as "encouragement" although I have no idea how it's supposed to encourage anything:

I disguise
And I will lie
And I will take my precious time
As the days melt away
As I stand in line
And I die as I wait as I wait on my crime
And I'll try to delay what you make of my life
But I don't want your way,
I want mine
I'm dying and I'm trying
But believe me I'm fine
But I'm lying,
I'm so very far from fine

1. Christians do not lie
   • Colossians 3:9
   
   
2. Christians do not die
   • John 6:47
   
   
3. Christians do not commit crime
   • I Peter 2:13-16
   
   
4. Christians never say “I don't want your way, I want mine”
   • Luke 22:42
   
   
5. Christians are not very far from fine
   • Matthew 5:48

The Pilots are describing an experience that's THE OPPOSITE of the Christian experience. A bleak and empty world with no hope and no future. "Yeah dude, you're so very far from fine, we know how you feel.." is not any sort of encouragement. It's co-wallowing in self pity. This has nothing in common with anything described in The Bible except as the inevitable plight of persons REJECTING the message of Christ. By warning people about these dangers we hope to bring an understanding of Jesus to others, His message of Hope and the opportunity for Redemption according to His will.

Jude 1:21-23 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And of some have compassion, making a difference, and others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

[Xanax]

Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor

But that's not what they're doing. Christians never sin. The Bible teaches that it's impossible for Christians to sin.

I John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

You see, I didn't just dream something up to suit. There it is directly from God speaking to us through The Bible. Let's have a look at what The Pilots have to say, as "encouragement" although I have no idea how it's supposed to encourage anything:

So this verse is not saying that Christians can never sin. Because, I am sure there is not a single Christian who has never sinned (except Christ as He was the only perfect human being). When studying the Bible you need to look at the whole passage. You cannot just pick and choose what you want to believe. We read in 1 John 3:4-5, "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin." Christ has taken away our sins once we become Christians, he takes away our sins past present and future. We even see the Apostle Paul (who is a Christian and one of the most powerful missionaries in the Bible) say in Romans 7:14-25, "4 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Here we see that Paul is struggling with sin, even though he was a faithful Christian who loved the Lord. This passage even sounds similar to some of Twenty-one pilots lyrics and their struggles in life. We need Jesus on a daily basis, because of our old nature. That is why we need to pray and read the Bible, so that we can withstand the temptations of the devil, because Satan is always trying to destroy us.

[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by Xanax

So this verse is not saying that Christians can never sin. Because, I am sure there is not a single Christian who has never sinned (except Christ as He was the only perfect human being). When studying the Bible you need to look at the whole passage. You cannot just pick and choose what you want to believe.

By clicking the hover-link (boldface, black text, underlined at the beginning of each Bible quote) the fullest context is available.

. .The first passage you cited from I John ch. 3 is a good example.

. . . Absolutely: everyone who sins breaks the law.

I John 3:4-5, 6-9 (verses 6-9 shown in blue)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Right there in the next verse, a verse you omitted, God explains that those abiding in Him do not in fact sin. God continues on, explaining why those abiding in Him do not sin. Notice in particular how this is not some opinion of mine but rather a statement of fact from God and that God states rather clearly that Christians cannot sin.

Not everyone is a Christian for the simple reason that they say so or declare themselves outright to follow demons, vain philosophies of human invention, assorted false prophets, hallucinations, you name it someone will be worshipping it, the mind boggles. Even pop music gets treated to this adulation. Music can express aspects of our experience where words seem inadequate. Sometimes words and music combined are recommended in The Bible.

James 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

God understands that just saying "I am merry" doesn't quite convey the type of, or the magnitude of, merriment in question. Probably a Shakespeare or a Jonathan Swift could produce something a bit more lively, snappy observations about civil intrigues or a joyous soliloquy. Paul's soliloquy is not joyous but neither is it sad. It begins in verse 7 and I'll put the whole piece here with your missing verses and the preamble for context.

Romans 7:5-6, 7-14, 15ff (verses 7-14 shown in blue)(verses 5-6 in green)
5 When we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Here we see that Paul is struggling with sin, even though he was a faithful Christian who loved the Lord. This passage even sounds similar to some of Twenty-one pilots lyrics and their struggles in life. We need Jesus on a daily basis, because of our old nature. That is why we need to pray and read the Bible, so that we can withstand the temptations of the devil, because Satan is always trying to destroy us.

It's a very good example of how selective quoting changes the significance of a passage. All babies are born sinful, deserving of nothing but torture, unremitting torment, day after day, forever and ever. It's the nature we inherit from Eve, transmitted to everyone through Adam, vileness in the face of God. Even though He created us, and described His work as very good, by disobedience which in the case of Eve took the form of being deceived we have become repugnant in His sight; all He wanted was to love us but we turned away from His mercy and grace. What else could He do but torture us? Kill us? Torture us some more? Over and over again in perpetuity? This is Paul's preamble, the condition Christians have been rescued from. It's the green section.

Next, he covers how The Law came citing one of The Ten Commandments "Thou shalt not covet." Check out verse 9 (in the blue section) where Paul says that he was I was alive without the law once but then the commandment came. Is he saying he existed before Moses received The Ten Commandments? Of course not. He's presenting the struggle between a vile nature we're all born with and which we're powerless to overcome and a spiritual condition achieved by Christ on our behalf which Christians inherit from Him. That is why verse 5 is in the past tense. Then we have Paul's soliloquy on the subject leading to the culmination, now in the present tense, as follows:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

By clicking the hover-link you can read the rest of chapter 8. None of this applies to The Pilots, however, who celebrate the fruits of a sinful nature, unredeemed, still enslaved to sin.

[Xanax]

Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor

Right there in the next verse, a verse you omitted, God explains that those abiding in Him do not in fact sin. God continues on, explaining why those abiding in Him do not sin. Notice in particular how this is not some opinion of mine but rather a statement of fact from God and that God states rather clearly that Christians cannot sin.

Are you saying you are perfect. Because I assure you, you sin on a daily basis. Everyone does!

[MitzaLizalor]

There are two statements. One from you and one from God. You have addressed neither your very selective Bible reading method nor the verses you'd overlooked and I don't expect you to. From your last comment only two options are possible. Either you didn't read the verses I highlighted for you or you did read them but can't understand what the words mean.



How then do we decide which statement is true?
God states that Christians not only do not sin

I John 3:6
hover cursor on link to see verse
click on the hoverlink for context

but cannot sin

I John 3:9
hover cursor on link to see verse
click on the hoverlink for context

whereas you claim that the opposite is true.



Christians believe what God explains. There are people who are not Christians who don't care what He tells us or who enjoy calling Him a liar. Are you calling God a liar? If you've read those two verses (in context, of course, I'd never suggest anything else) and have understood what the words mean yet still insist on contradicting God then yes, that's what you're doing.

Only two people are making claims here. You. And God. I've read your stuff, read and shared God's unambiguous statement, it's up to everyone else to decide which of you is telling the truth. Because let's face it, if God's wrong about sin how can He be right about Salvation?

[Xanax]

Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor

There are people who are not Christians who don't care what He tells us or who enjoy calling Him a liar. Are you calling God a liar? If you've read those two verses (in context, of course, I'd never suggest anything else) and have understood what the words mean yet still insist on contradicting God then yes, that's what you're doing.

I am not calling God a liar. All I am asking is have you ever sinned, disobeyed God's laws after you became a Christian?

[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by Xanax

...All I am asking is have you ever sinned, disobeyed God's laws after you became a Christian?

Her point, yet again, is that the Bible says that doesn't happen.

Christian != sinner and sinner != Christian (see 1 John 3:6)

Christian = Ex-sinner, by the power of Greyskull!! God (see 1 John 3:9)

If you're still sinning, then you are not now and never have been a Christian. See ya in Hell.

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

Originally Posted by Didymus Much

See ya in Hell.

Surely the very prospect of that is enough to make you reconsider your position, Didymus? Despite everything, I am still optimistic that one day soon you will be Saved.

[Brother Gonzalez]

I am organizing a demonstration for the next South American tour of this satanic band. Any missionary willing to come to South America and fight the hordes of Satan, are very welcome.

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by Brother Gonzalez

I am organizing a demonstration for the next South American tour of this satanic band. Any missionary willing to come to South America and fight the hordes of Satan, are very welcome.

Brother, you'll understand if I don't wish to visit your country. Camping and slumming and dysentery isn't my idea of a vacation. However, I will support you in the most powerful way that exists on earth: Prayer.

[MitzaLizalor]

Originally Posted by Brother Gonzalez

I am organizing a demonstration for the next South American tour of this satanic band. Any missionary willing to come to South America and fight the hordes of Satan, are very welcome.

Do they have a mosh pit?

[Xanax]

Originally Posted by Didymus Much

Her point, yet again, is that the Bible says that doesn't happen.

Christian != sinner and sinner != Christian (see 1 John 3:6)

Christian = Ex-sinner, by the power of Greyskull!! God (see 1 John 3:9)

If you're still sinning, then you are not now and never have been a Christian. See ya in Hell.

Clearly you do not understand Christianity. It is the blood of Christ that washes away our sins. We are only perfect because Christ has forgiven us. We will sin, but it is God's grace that we are presented before Him as perfect because of what Jesus did on the cross.

[Xanax]

Originally Posted by Dana723

I guess when you take Xanax so much that you use it as your forum name, you stay confused an awful lot.

Do you feel better about yourself when you make fun of others.

Ephesians 4:32, "Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."

[Mary Etheldreda]

Originally Posted by Xanax

Clearly you do not understand Christianity. It is the blood of Christ that washes away our sins. We are only perfect because Christ has forgiven us. We will sin, but it is God's grace that we are presented before Him as perfect because of what Jesus did on the cross.

That's retarded, friend! That's like saying God is so stupid He couldn't tell Clark Kent was Superman because the glasses threw Him off! That's like saying God's perception is like a Tyrannosaurus Rex in that He can only see people if they move/if they are covered in Christ's Blood. That's like saying Heaven is a Giant Peek-A-Boo Circus and as long as a person covers his face with a cardboard cutout of Jesus, God will let the sinner into the party because He won't know any better!


Good grief dear, how do you even manage to get dressed every day?

[Dana723]

Originally Posted by Xanax

Clearly you do not understand Christianity. It is the blood of Christ that washes away our sins. We are only perfect because Christ has forgiven us. We will sin, but it is God's grace that we are presented before Him as perfect because of what Jesus did on the cross.

Actually, he's an atheist, so no, he doesn't understand or believe Christianity.

[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by Xanax

Clearly you do not understand Christianity...

Really? Let's look at 1 John 3:6 in detail, and compare it to my reading above:

I said: "Christian != sinner", and the Bible says, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:", which agree PERFECTLY.

Then I said; "sinner != Christian", reflected PERFECTLY in the second part of 1 John 3:6, "whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

What I said PERFECTLY reflects what the Bible says. So what don't I understand, other than your wish that God overlook your complete lack of faith in His power and utter failure to follow His instructions and admit you to Heaven anyways (because you're really a good person and you try [sometimes] so that should count)?

Originally Posted by Dana723

Actually, he's an atheist, so no, he doesn't understand or believe Christianity.

Please, find where any of the True Christians™ have ever disagreed with my readings of the King James Bible, and then point out exactly where I have misunderstood basic English. Thanks.

[Xanax]

Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda

That's retarded, friend! That's like saying God is so stupid He couldn't tell Clark Kent was Superman because the glasses threw Him off! That's like saying God's perception is like a Tyrannosaurus Rex in that He can only see people if they move/if they are covered in Christ's Blood. That's like saying Heaven is a Giant Peek-A-Boo Circus and as long as a person covers his face with a cardboard cutout of Jesus, God will let the sinner into the party because He won't know any better!


Good grief dear, how do you even manage to get dressed every day?

Well if you believe that Christians can never sin, then you are on your way to hell, because you are not perfect. Only Jesus is!