[Levi Jones]

Originally Posted by OmarALjabar

WHAT DID I DO TODAY?


i b.u.r.n.e.d 10 copyes of KJV1611

i was never-ever happier in my life.

Alah will reward me for this with one virgin more

I will be praying for you. I will pray that God breaks your teeth out of your mouth and that you melt away like a snail like a dead fetus. I will be praying that God washes His feet in your blood, infidel dog.

Psalm 58 Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O LORD. Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.
As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.
Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall take them away as with a whirlwind, both living, and in his wrath.
The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Originally Posted by Omar al Gibberish

WHAT DID I DO TODAY?


i b.u.r.n.e.d 10 copyes of KJV1611

i was never-ever happier in my life.

Alah will reward me for this with one virgin more

So? It's just a book.

Unlike Muslims, we don't consider physical objects to be "sacred" or "magical".

And who is "alah"? Is he a pimp of some sort, handing out girls for you after you burn books like some Nazi?

[Titus Templeton]

Allah has already crushed your brain, muslim.

[Seth Campbell]

Originally Posted by Omar al Gibberish

WHAT DID I DO TODAY?


i b.u.r.n.e.d 10 copyes of KJV1611

i was never-ever happier in my life.

Alah will reward me for this with one virgin more

Will he now. Seems your own prophet disagrees with you.

VERSES WHERE MUHAMMAD ACTUALLY QUOTES OR APPEALS TO THE TORAH AND/OR THE GOSPEL.

D1. The Star (Najm) 53:33-38, Early Meccan.

"Do you (Muhammad) see the one who turns back? Gives a little, then hardens (his heart)? What has he knowledge of the unseen so that he can see? Nay, IS he not acquainted with what IS in the books of Moses and of Abraham who fulfilled his engagements? - namely that no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another."

D2. The Poets (Al-Shu`ara') 26:192-197, Middle Meccan.

"Verily this is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds. The Spirit of faith came down upon your heart with it that you might be one of the warners in the plain Arabic tongue. And truly it IS in the Scriptures (Zubur) of the former people. IS it not a sign to them that the learned of the Children of Israel RECOGNIZE it."

D3. Ta-Ha 20:133, Middle Meccan from -7 AH.

"They (the Meccans) say, `Why does he not bring us a sign from his Lord?' What! Has not a clear sign come to them in what IS in the former pages (al-suhuf al-aulla )?"

According to Baidawi's commentary on this verse - The "former pages" refers to "the Torah and the Gospel and all the divine books."

D4. The Prophets (Al-Anbiya') 21:7, Middle Meccan.

"And before thee (Muhammad), We sent no one, except men, to whom We granted revelation. ASK (plural) the people of the Scripture message, if you don't know."

D5. The Prophets (Al-Anbiya') 21:105, Middle Meccan.

"Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): `My servants, the righteous, shall inherit the earth.'"

This is a direct quotation from Psalm 37:29 which reads, "The righteous shall inherit the earth and dwell therein forever." When considered with the preceding quotation from the same Sura (21:7), it is clear that, according to the Qur'an, God is quoting from the Psalms as still present and true at the time of Muhammad.

D6. Gold Adornments (Al-Zukhruf) 43:44-45, Late Meccan.

"The (Qur'an) is indeed a message for you (Muhammad) and your people, (all of) you shall be brought to account, and ASK those of our apostles whom we sent before thee, `Did We appoint any deities other than the Most Merciful whom they should worship?'"

According to Baidawi, Jelaleddin, and Yusuf Ali, "ask those of our apostles whom we sent before thee" means enquire of their people - those learned in their writings and doctrines. Therefore those writings and doctrines were clearly available in Muhammad's time.

D7. Jonah (Yunus) 10:94, Late Meccan.

"If you (Muhammad) are in doubt regarding that which We have revealed to thee, ASK those who READ the book from before you..."

D8. The Bee (Al-Nahl) 16:43-44, Late Meccan.

"And We have not sent before you (Muhammad) other than men to whom we granted revelation. And (all of you) ASK the people of the (Scripture) Message if you don't know."

D9. The Children of Israel (Bani Isra'il) 17:101, Late Meccan from -1 AH.

"To Moses We gave nine clear signs. ASK (O Muhammad) the Children of Israel..."

D10. 17:107-108.

"Say, `Whether you believe in it (the Qur'an) or not (O Meccans), it is true that those to whom knowledge came before it, when they hear it recited unto them fall down upon their faces worshiping... and it increases their humility."

D11. Thunder (Al-Ra`d) 13:43, Late Meccan.

"And those who disbelieve say, `You (Muhammad) are not sent.' Say, `God is sufficient as a witness between me and you, and also he who HAS the knowledge of the book.'"

D12. The Heights (Al-A`raf) 7:156-157, Late Meccan.

"And I will write down (my mercy) for those who are righteous and give alms and who believe in our signs; who follow the apostle, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in the Torah and the Gospel that IS WITH THEM."

D13. The Heights (Al-A`raf) 7:159, Late Meccan.

"Of the people of Moses there is a group (umma) who guide with truth and judge by it."

D14. 7:168-170, Late Meccan.

"He broke them (the Jews) up into sections on this earth. Some of them are righteous, and some of them are not. We have tried them with blessings and with adversities in order that they might return to Us...What! has there not been taken from them the covenant of the Book, that they should not say of God other than the truth, and they diligently STUDY that which is therein... As to those (Jews) who HOLD FAST by the Book and observe prayer; verily We shall not detract from the reward of the righteous."

D15. The Heifer (Al-Baqara) 2:113, 2 AH.

"The Jews say, `The Christians are not (founded) upon anything.' And the Christians say, `The Jews are not (founded) upon anything.' And yet they READ the Book"

D16. The Family of `Imran (Ali `Imran) 3:23, 2-3 AH.

"Do you not see those to whom a portion of the Book came. They were called to the Book of God (Torah) that it might judge between them. Then a party of them turned aside and declined."

The commentators refer this verse to various incidents, but they agree that a dispute was submitted by the Jews to Muhammad for arbitration. He proposed to these Jews to determine the question by actual reference to their Scriptures, but they refused and went away.

D17. 3:79.

"It is not for a man to whom is given the Book and wisdom and prophecy that he should then say to people, `Be worshipers of me in place of God.' But rather, `Be true teachers** (rabbaniyin), since you teach the Book and you STUDY it earnestly.'"

(**Every translator is different here. I followed Masson)

D18. 3:93-94.

"All food was lawful to the Children of Israel except what Israel made unlawful for itself before the Torah was revealed. Say, `BRING the Torah and READ it, if you are men of truth.' If any, after this, invent a lie and attribute it to God, they are indeed transgressors."

D19. The Women (Al-Nisa') 4:60, 5-6 AH.

"Have you (Muhammad) not seen those who fancy that they believe in that which hath been revealed unto thee, and in that which has been revealed before thee? They desire to go for a mutual decision unto the Taghut (an idol); yet verily they have been commanded (in the Torah) to disbelieve therein, and Satan desires to deceive them into a wide deception."

D20. The Victory (Al-Fath) 48:29, 6 AH.

"On their faces (of the Muslim believers) are their marks, the traces of their bowing (in worship). This IS their likeness in the Torah; and their likeness in the Gospel IS like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong. It then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, and delights the sower."

This seems to be a definite allusion to Jesus' words as recorded in Mark 4:26-28 which reads:

"and he said, `This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed on the ground... all by itself the soil produces grain - first the blade, then the head, and then the full kernel in the head. As soon as the grain is ripe he puts the sickle to it because the harvest has come.'"

D21. The Table (Al-Ma'ida) 5;46, 10 AH.

"But why do they (the Jews) come to thee for decision, when they HAVE the Torah in which IS the command of God."

D22. 5:48, 10 AH.

"We ordained therein for them (the Jews): `Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.' But if any one REMITS the retaliation by way of charity, it IS an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to JUDGE by what God has revealed, they are wrong-doers."

Here the Qur'an quotes God as repeating the law which He gave to Moses in the Torah Exodus 21:23-25 where He ordered,

"...You are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

Then the Jews of Medina are warned, "if any fail to JUDGE by (the Torah) ... they are wrong-doers".

D23. 5:50, 10 AH.

"And let the People of the Gospel JUDGE by what God has revealed in it. If any fail to judge by what God has revealed, they are licentious."

D24. 5:68-71, 10 AH.

If only the People of the Book had believed and been righteous, we should have blotted out their sins and admitted them to gardens of bliss. If only they had performed the Torah and the Gospel and all that was revealed to them from their Lord, they would have eaten from above and from under their feet. Among them is a People (umma) on the right course, but evil is that which many of them do... Say, "O People of the Book! You are not (founded) on anything until you PERFORM the Torah and the Gospel, and what was revealed to you from your Lord." ...

In the above verses there is a continuing testimony to the presence during Muhammad's lifetime, of a true Torah and Gospel, recognized by the Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

In Mecca an unbeliever who turns away IS acquainted with what IS in the books of Moses and Abraham [D1]. A clear sign has come to them in "what IS in the former pages" [D3], and Muhammad appeals to "he who HAS knowledge of the Book" [D11].

It is stated that the coming of the Qur'an "IS in the scripture of the former people" and "the learned of the Children of Israel RECOGNIZE it" [D2]. Those to whom knowledge came before BELIEVE in it [D10]. Some Jews are righteous and "hold fast by the book" [D14], but there are others who do not accept Muhammad even though "they diligently STUDY" their book [D14].

Both the Jews and Christians "READ the book" [D15], and "STUDY it earnestly" [D17].

There are some righteous Jews [D14] who GUIDE with truth and JUDGE by it [D13], and among the Jews and Christians is a people on the right course [D24].

Meccans are told, "ASK the People of the Scripture message if you don't know" [D4,D8], and "ASK those of our Apostles whom we sent" - that is ask their people who are learned in their writings and doctrines [D6].

Muhammad is told, "ASK those who READ the Book from before you, if you are in doubt" [D7], and "ASK the Children of Israel" about the nine clear signs given to Moses [D9].

According to other passages God repeats commands from the Torah, warning the Jews to JUDGE by them [D22], and quotes from the Psalms of David [D5]. He appeals to worshiping as the likeness of Muslim believers which is to be found in the Torah, and alludes to growing seed in the Gospel of Jesus as the likeness of believers from the Gospel [D20].

Muhammad tells the Jews to bring the Torah that "it might JUDGE between them" [D16]. On another occasion he tells them, "BRING the Torah and READ it if you are men of truth" [D18].

God asks Muhammad why the Jews come to him for judgement when "they HAVE the Torah in which IS the command of God" [D21]; and the Christians are told to "JUDGE by what God has revealed in it (the Gospel)" [D23].

God speaks of "the Torah and the Gospel that IS WITH THEM" [D12]. And in the last Sura which came to Muhammad - the Sura of the Table (Al-Ma'ida) from 10 AH - both Jews and Christians are told "you are not (founded) on anything until you PERFORM the Torah and the Gospel, and what was revealed to you from your Lord" [D24].

One of the commentators, Ibn Ishaq, relates the following Hadith concerning this passage [D24]. He says:

"Rafi son of Haritha and Salam Ibn Mashkum and two others, came to Muhammad and said to him, `O Muhammad! do you not claim to be a follower of the religion of Abraham and of his faith, and do you not believe in that which we have of the Torah and do you not testify that it is truly from God.'

"He replied, `Yes, in truth, but you have invented new doctrines, and you deny that which is therein regarding which a covenant was taken from you; and you conceal what you have been commanded to show to mankind. Therefore, I separate myself from your new ideas.'

"They said, `And as for us, we hold by that which is in our hands, and we follow the truth and guidance; and we do not believe in you and we will not follow you.'

"Then the great and glorious God revealed, `Say, O People of the Book! You are not (founded) on anything until you perform the Torah and the Gospel and what was revealed to you from your Lord.'"

If this hadith is true then, by itself, it proves that Muhammad believed in the Torah available to the Jews in Medina in 10 AH. And, even if it is not a strong hadith, it is an important testimony to the fact that Muslims of the first and second century of the Hejira knew about a valid Torah and Gospel with them in Arabia.

With or without the above hadith, the 24 passages which we have looked at in this section and the 13 from the previous section, make a total of 37 quotations which testify to a true Torah and Gospel being available to the people of Mecca and Medina while Muhammad was alive.

Muslims may claim that the true Torah and true Gospel, which were present in Arabia, are different from those presently available. But where are they?!? Surely some Muslim would have preserved such important books in one of the many Muslim libraries found throughout the Islamic world, even if only to help the Jews and Christians obey the Quranic instruction to "perform the Torah and the Gospel". Moreover, we would then be able to compare them with the copies which have been preserved by the Jews and Christians.

In fact, this is not the case. No such ancient copies have been preserved by the Muslims. Over the whole world there is only one Torah, which IS WITH both Jews and Christians, and one book called the Gospel. which IS WITH the Christians.

[Lisa H]

Very true Seth about Muslims burning the Bible. Perhaps this Muslim has not heard of the court case of Mohammed Vawda in South Africa. He should read this news article Muslim Community Seeks to Prevent Bible Burning in South Africa. Looks like he is not wanting a place in paradise.

[SouthernSandman]

Hey, mudslide (won't bother to capitalize that): Jesus our Lord is the son of God. God isn't and never was a Jew, and our Lord Jesus' mother CARRIED him in her womb, but there was no such thing as a biological impregnation. It was DIVINE intervention, so EVEN if the Virgin Mary WAS a Jew, that still wouldn't make Jesus our Saviour a Jew. At least not more than a Nigra mother would make her white adoptive son a Darkie.

[Omar al Gibberish]

Originally Posted by SouthernSandman

Hey, mudslide (won't bother to capitalize that): Jesus our Lord is the son of God. God isn't and never was a Jew, and our Lord Jesus' mother CARRIED him in her womb, but there was no such thing as a biological impregnation. It was DIVINE intervention, so EVEN if the Virgin Mary WAS a Jew, that still wouldn't make Jesus our Saviour a Jew. At least not more than a Nigra mother would make her white adoptive son a Darkie.

You really aren't top model material aint you?

[Titus Templeton]

Originally Posted by Omar al Gibberish

You really aren't top model material aint you?

Racists are not welcome here, muslim.

[SouthernSandman]

Originally Posted by Omar al Gibberish

You really aren't top model material aint you?

My mom says I'm pretty

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Omar al Gibberish

You really aren't top model material aint you?

Hey, camel jockey: Shut your filthy terrorist mouth!

[Seth Campbell]

Originally Posted by Omar al Gibberish

You really aren't top model material aint you?

So we show a bunch of evidence showing that you have disrespected your own prophet, and this is the best you can do?