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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 01:34 PM

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Originally Posted by cobdog View Post
the existence of Satan and a hell are debated amongst christians,
You're not talking to True Christians, it's as simple as that.

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

So, ask yourself this question: how are Christians managing to convince themselves that Hell is not a real place if they claim to believe in Jesus as revealed to them in the holy Bible? The answer is quite simple: they are making it up as they go along because they've noticed the Bible makes people nervous and edge away from them. Rather than persevere and save a few wise people from Hell they just want those people to be their friends so they do as you advocate - namely they attract them to any old gibberish so long as they are their friends and save nobody.



Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

John 5:46,47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 01:40 PM

Alphonse Alban, Redeemed Papist:

what is a true christian? the history of the christian church reveals 2 great schisms in beliefs, perhaps we are not far from another emerging between fundamentalists (not used in a derogatory sense) and those who prefer to take metaphorical meaning from the bible.

And again, not that knowledgeable on the bible, but doesn't Jesus mention something about forgiveness for all?
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 01:43 PM

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Originally Posted by cobdog View Post
Alphonse Alban, Redeemed Papist:

what is a true christian? the history of the christian church reveals 2 great schisms in beliefs, perhaps we are not far from another emerging between fundamentalists (not used in a derogatory sense) and those who prefer to take metaphorical meaning from the bible.

And again, not that knowledgeable on the bible, but doesn't Jesus mention something about forgiveness for all?
A True Christian is one who follows the Bible.

Why don't you backtrack a bit and lurk more. Read some of the threads there to inform newcomers instead of asking us really obvious questions that have been asked a hundred times already.



Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

John 5:46,47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Join me in scoffing at backwards Muslims clinging to their beliefs in the face of the evidence!
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 01:51 PM

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Originally Posted by Redeemed Papist View Post
A True Christian is one who follows the Bible.

Why don't you backtrack a bit and lurk more. Read some of the threads there to inform newcomers instead of asking us really obvious questions that have been asked a hundred times already.
i found the quote button

for such an easy question you have succeeded in providing an incredibly vague answer. In any case, my question is directed to YOUR personal interpretation. How am I supposed to understand and be redeemed without seeing into the minds of those already saved?
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 01:54 PM

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Originally Posted by cobdog View Post
the word 'queer', I really hope you're using it as a synonym for weird, strange, odd etc.
I can't talk on behalf of brother Zechariah, but I think real meaning of that word is repulsive gay-sexual. At least I use queer only in that context.

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what is a true christian?
We are.
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 02:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Alphonse Alban View Post
I can't talk on behalf of brother Zechariah, but I think real meaning of that word is repulsive gay-sexual. At least I use queer only in that context.



We are.
So I read the link you posted, and I came across a section in which as a christian you believe that you can't sit idly by and let us be tormented in hell. You're lack of definition of a 'true christian' is doing so, so really, you're contradicting your own beliefs

As for your queer reference, I doubt insulting them is doing them much good. Perhaps a less direct approach?
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 02:03 PM

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i found the quote button

for such an easy question you have succeeded in providing an incredibly vague answer. In any case, my question is directed to YOUR personal interpretation. How am I supposed to understand and be redeemed without seeing into the minds of those already saved?
How is "one who follows the Bible" vague? If you take that at face value, something EVERY True Christian™ does, it's one of the simplest explanations of our spiritual nature imaginable.

Look, there are a lot of "christians" out there who claim to "follow" the Bible.

THEY DON'T.

Friend, I am not going to sugarcoat this in any way. I'd be willing to wager (if I were still a gambling man) that over 99% of the people who "follow" the Bible have never READ the Bible. How am I so sure? I can quote verse after verse after verse to them, and ask them for their opinions on said verses, and they will claim that the verse is not even in the Bible.



I'll provide a few if you don't believe me, but let's just say that I know of people in my own family who will actually sit in a chair where a menstruating female has sat previously.

Sick. Sick. SICK.



I hope you will discard your suspicions and join me on a path that is destined for GLORY!

YiC,

Zech


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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 02:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Zechariah Smyth View Post
How is "one who follows the Bible" vague? If you take that at face value, something EVERY True Christian™ does, it's one of the simplest explanations of our spiritual nature imaginable.

Look, there are a lot of "christians" out there who claim to "follow" the Bible.

THEY DON'T.

Friend, I am not going to sugarcoat this in any way. I'd be willing to wager (if I were still a gambling man) that over 99% of the people who "follow" the Bible have never READ the Bible. How am I so sure? I can quote verse after verse after verse to them, and ask them for their opinions on said verses, and they will claim that the verse is not even in the Bible.



I'll provide a few if you don't believe me, but let's just say that I know of people in my own family who will actually sit in a chair where a menstruating female has sat previously.

Sick. Sick. SICK.



I hope you will discard your suspicions and join me on a path that is destined for GLORY!

YiC,

Zech
so by follow the bible you mean a literal interpretation of its lessons?

I believe you about the bible thing, so these people, they're not true christians? And with your example of the menstruating female thing, how do you actually mediate that? What if I sit on a public bench? Is it possible to confess for sins you don't know you've committed?
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 02:21 PM

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so by follow the bible you mean a literal interpretation of its lessons?
Yes and no. I take It (The Word of God) literally. I do not interpret. I do and believe what it tells me. There's enough in there to remember without me putting my personal "spin" on it.



Quote:
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I believe you about the bible thing, so these people, they're not true christians?
Of course they aren't. If they discard ONE SINGLE THING from the Bible, they will burn in hell for eternity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobdog View Post
And with your example of the menstruating female thing, how do you actually mediate that? What if I sit on a public bench? Is it possible to confess for sins you don't know you've committed?
Why would you sit on a public bench? That's for hobos, hookers and drug abusers. Why take that chance? Public benches are a tool of the godless liberals to trick people into being hellbound.

YiC,

Zech


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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 02:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Zechariah Smyth View Post
Yes and no. I take It (The Word of God) literally. I do not interpret. I do and believe what it tells me. There's enough in there to remember without me putting my personal "spin" on it.





Of course they aren't. If they discard ONE SINGLE THING from the Bible, they will burn in hell for eternity.



Why would you sit on a public bench? That's for hobos, hookers and drug abusers. Why take that chance? Public benches are a tool of the godless liberals to trick people into being hellbound.

YiC,

Zech
noted

however you don't realise but when you read something you unintentionally put your own spin on it. Your understanding and interpretation of the english language and the words used are different to when it was initially translated. Speaking of which, perhaps your beliefs are subject to the bibles translations (unless you've read one of the earlier latin versions). Is it not possible that translators may have purposefully or accidentally misrepresented biblical truth?

Public benches were just an example. I could say the same of sitting in a taxi, in a seat at McDonalds, etc. It just seems to me there are some sins it is impossible to avoid
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 02:40 PM

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noted

however you don't realise but when you read something you unintentionally put your own spin on it. Your understanding and interpretation of the english language and the words used are different to when it was initially translated. Speaking of which, perhaps your beliefs are subject to the bibles translations (unless you've read one of the earlier latin versions). Is it not possible that translators may have purposefully or accidentally misrepresented biblical truth?

Public benches were just an example. I could say the same of sitting in a taxi, in a seat at McDonalds, etc. It just seems to me there are some sins it is impossible to avoid
First off, I want to thank you for keeping things civil. You would be amazed at the people who visit here who fail to do that. I appreciate it, sincerely.



As far as translations, the 1611 KJV is the "top of the heap" so to speak, although there are others that some of the senior pastors have grudgingly given their blessing to (the NASV for instance). I am not privy to all of the decision making on that, so I stick with the 1611 KJV just to be safe: it's the one that God has approved unequivocally.

As far as languages, I obviously speak English but I also speak German, some French, a little Spanish, and I studied Latin for 3 years (not conversational, natch). The myth of the uneducated Christian is exactly that...a myth.

As far as taxis and McDonalds: I drive a Yukon Denali so I have no need of taxis, and I despise Scottish food.

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth


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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 02:50 PM

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First off, I want to thank you for keeping things civil. You would be amazed at the people who visit here who fail to do that. I appreciate it, sincerely.



As far as translations, the 1611 KJV is the "top of the heap" so to speak, although there are others that some of the senior pastors have grudgingly given their blessing to (the NASV for instance). I am not privy to all of the decision making on that, so I stick with the 1611 KJV just to be safe: it's the one that God has approved unequivocally.

As far as languages, I obviously speak English but I also speak German, some French, a little Spanish, and I studied Latin for 3 years (not conversational, natch). The myth of the uneducated Christian is exactly that...a myth.

As far as taxis and McDonalds: I drive a Yukon Denali so I have no need of taxis, and I despise Scottish food.

Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth
no worries you too, I've seen people get quite heated in these discussions.

Latin, well there you go just the only real problem I see with language is dynamics. I'm not sure how well this applies to the bible, having studied language you're likely more knowledgable than I. One example that comes to mind is the word virgin, which in past societies has denoted a young woman, not necessarily one that's pure.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? and what do you do? I don't mean to be invasive I'm just trying to get some context on your person
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 03:06 PM

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no worries you too, I've seen people get quite heated in these discussions.

Latin, well there you go just the only real problem I see with language is dynamics. I'm not sure how well this applies to the bible, having studied language you're likely more knowledgable than I. One example that comes to mind is the word virgin, which in past societies has denoted a young woman, not necessarily one that's pure.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? and what do you do? I don't mean to be invasive I'm just trying to get some context on your person
I don't mind at all.

I'm a 25-year-old veteran with training in field-deployable mob-comm "solutions" and some other things that aren't important. I'm currently a carpenter, but I can adapt to my customer's needs as required. I went through language training at the DLI (Russian primary, Farsi secondary), but self-study went way past their capabilities.

How about you?

YiC,

Zech


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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobdog View Post
So I read the link you posted, and I came across a section in which as a christian you believe that you can't sit idly by and let us be tormented in hell.
OK, except that I did not post any links. Anywhoo, it is true that I would like to see people saved, but if people choose not to follow word of God, it's their fault. If Jesus in heaven has no problem with listening people tortured in hell, then I won't see any problem with it.

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 03:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Zechariah Smyth View Post
I don't mind at all.

I'm a 25-year-old veteran with training in field-deployable mob-comm "solutions" and some other things that aren't important. I'm currently a carpenter, but I can adapt to my customer's needs as required. I went through language training at the DLI (Russian primary, Farsi secondary), but self-study went way past their capabilities.

How about you?

YiC,

Zech
17 year old student, prospective historian.

Alphonse Alban: apologies if i misquoted you
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 04:34 PM

[QUOTE=Alphonse Alban;804853]OK, except that I did not post any links. Anywhoo, it is true that I would like to see people saved, but if people choose not to follow word of God, it's their fault. If Jesus in heaven has no problem with listening people tortured in hell, then I won't see any problem with it.

So your god would have no problem letting innocent and good people burn in a lake of fire for all eternity even if they had never even heard of jesus or christianity? Not to mention he's killed more people than satan has in your stories. Even if he came down here and said everything in the bible were true I would still refuse to follow such an egotistical scum bag. That isn't a loving benevolent god, he's more akin to a bratty child with a magnifying class killing ants or a sociopath killing people that don't like him.
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Alphonse Alban Alphonse Alban is offline
Apostle to the Samites and Laplander Eskimos.
 

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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 04:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Hamish View Post
no problem letting innocent and good people burn in a lake of fire for all eternity even if they had never even heard of jesus or christianity?


Don't be silly, of course they are not innocent and good. They are heathens and sinners.
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 04:57 PM

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Originally Posted by cobdog View Post
i found the quote button

for such an easy question you have succeeded in providing an incredibly vague answer. In any case, my question is directed to YOUR personal interpretation. How am I supposed to understand and be redeemed without seeing into the minds of those already saved?
We follow the Bible. How does MY opinion come into it? The Bible guides me in everything.



Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

John 5:46,47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish View Post
So your god would have no problem letting innocent and good people burn in a lake of fire for all eternity even if they had never even heard of jesus or christianity? Not to mention he's killed more people than satan has in your stories. Even if he came down here and said everything in the bible were true I would still refuse to follow such an egotistical scum bag. That isn't a loving benevolent god, he's more akin to a bratty child with a magnifying class killing ants or a sociopath killing people that don't like him.
You're free to hate God if you like. The problem with hating God is that He burns you forever if you do.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.



Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

John 5:46,47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Join me in scoffing at backwards Muslims clinging to their beliefs in the face of the evidence!
The truth about volcanos
Sex and debauchery in public schools
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God Cures AIDS - GLORY!
Desert whale bones prove Great Flood once and for all.
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Default Re: Water Proves Atheism is False! - 10-11-2011, 05:11 PM

Would you stone your own son if he disobeyed you?
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