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Default Animals do not feel pain. - 01-31-2012, 09:07 PM

I read an interesting article on christian apologist Dr William Lane Craig's website recently. He says that animals do not feel pain but just give the impression of suffering.

This has already saved me money on veterinary bills as I do not have to worry about my dog's broken leg. The howls from the shed will stop in a couple of days I'm sure.

Quote:
So Christian theologians of all stripes have to face the challenge posed by animal pain. Here recent studies in biology have provided surprising, new insights into this old problem. In his book Nature Red in Tooth and Claw: Theism and the Problem of Animal Suffering, Michael Murray distinguishes three levels in an ascending pain hierarchy (read from the bottom up):
Level 3: a second order awareness that one is oneself experiencing (2).
Level 2: a first order, subjective experience of pain.
Level 1: information-bearing neural states produced by noxious stimuli resulting in aversive behavior.

Spiders and insects—the sort of creatures most exhibiting the kinds of behavior mentioned by Ayala—experience (1). But there's no reason at all to attribute (2) to such creatures. It's plausible that they aren't sentient beings at all with some sort of subjective, interior life. That sort of experience plausibly does not arise until one gets to the level of vertebrates in the animal kingdom. But even though animals like dogs, cats, and horses experience pain, nevertheless the evidence is that they do not experience level (3), the awareness that they are in pain. For the awareness that one is oneself in pain requires self-awareness, which is centered in the pre-frontal cortex of the brain—a section of the brain which is missing in all animals except for the humanoid primates. Thus, amazingly, even though animals may experience pain, they are not aware of being in pain. God in His mercy has apparently spared animals the awareness of pain. This is a tremendous comfort to us pet owners. For even though your dog or cat may be in pain, it really isn't aware of it and so doesn't suffer as you would if you were in pain.
Now that we know this we can use animals without guilt as they only give the appearance of suffering.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

It's good to know that this cat is happy in it's own little mind.
In fact since it has a socket in it you might be able to get a happiness reading

YIC

Jack
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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 01-31-2012, 10:16 PM

I always knew humans were special in this regard. It just goes to show we can't be descended from monkeys because we have nothing in common with them.

God is so neat and tidy in His perfect design of the world.



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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 01-31-2012, 10:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack O'fagan View Post
I read an interesting article on christian apologist Dr William Lane Craig's website recently. He says that animals do not feel pain but just give the impression of suffering.
Thank you for that information, Brother Jack. I always remember my childhood. My friend and I were used to collect frogs in the woods, then we put them into a small cartoon and set it on fire. That was our way to deal with the holocaust stories our indoctrinated teachers told us. But since none of them suffered there is no way i should have a bad feeling about it.
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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-01-2012, 03:25 AM

Who cares if they feel pain or not? Following that line of thinking leads down the path of liberalism and degeneracy. God gave us the animals to use as we see fit. The Bible doesn't say we need to worry about hurting their feelings.


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Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

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Thumbs up Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-01-2012, 03:15 PM

Good point there! Does this apply to seniles and retards too, assuming an IQ of 50 or less?
I plan to open a retard care center in association with Ambea AB, owner of the Swiss company Carema Care, and plan to boost our profit by arranging retard fights. I plan to make the fights brutal, allow them to use melee weapons like hammers and dress them up like fantasy creatures. I know they are incapable of feeling fear and shame, but the pain is an issue with some of the Ambea stock owners. If I can prove them that they aren't aware of pain, we can make the deal.

Sincerely in Christ, Lukas
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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-12-2012, 03:04 AM

So, Titus, everyone who died in the Holocaust did not die? Or perhaps they felt no pain, because they were lesser beings? Do you thus condone the genocide of Hitler?

And if animals do not feel pain, what of it? Are we to drop to the level of demons and devils to torture creatures for our amusement? If one is truly to live in the path of God and to see Jesus in all, then one should surely be able to see it in animals.
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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-12-2012, 04:00 AM

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Originally Posted by cabrin View Post
So, Titus, everyone who died in the Holocaust did not die? Or perhaps they felt no pain, because they were lesser beings? Do you thus condone the genocide of Hitler?
Oh they're feeling pain now!


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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-12-2012, 04:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda View Post
Oh they're feeling pain now!


<--- Christ Killers and Non Believers
I never understand the reaction of fluffy bunny Christians to the holocaust. Yes, the Nazi's may have burnt some jews but what exactly do they think Jesus is going to do to them when He returns?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is going to burn them for ever!

YIC

Jack


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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-12-2012, 07:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabrin View Post
So, Titus, everyone who died in the Holocaust did not die?
The so-called Holocaust is just another joo lie. Read THIS.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-15-2012, 04:05 AM

Maybe not 'pain', but they can surely feel something. If they were pain resistant, my neighbor would be kicking dogs left and right But i think the thought process has escalated to..do we care if they feel pain? If a cat were to fall out of a tree and hurt a leg, should one worry for their suffering or pain? If we take action due to their suffering; it's going to be more beneficial to the animal, rather than worrying over their pain. I don't disagree with anything stated prior to this, i just think we need to think about it differently.


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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-15-2012, 10:01 AM

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Originally Posted by cabrin View Post
So, Titus, everyone who died in the Holocaust did not die? Or perhaps they felt no pain, because they were lesser beings? Do you thus condone the genocide of Hitler?

And if animals do not feel pain, what of it? Are we to drop to the level of demons and devils to torture creatures for our amusement? If one is truly to live in the path of God and to see Jesus in all, then one should surely be able to see it in animals.
Why?

You can keep on coming out with all your amazing insights as much as you like but where does it say that God agrees with you?



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Default 02-15-2012, 02:52 PM

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Originally Posted by RighteousYouth22 View Post
i just think we need to think about it differently.
Psalm 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

Psalm 48:9 We have thought of thy lovingkindness, O God, in the midst of thy temple

Our thoughts should be directed at God.

Accept Jesus' loving touch!
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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-26-2012, 03:41 AM

All right, I can't pass on this thread, as I am going to be a veterinary technician after college and I care a lot about the wellbeing of every animal...
First of all, animals have nerve endings. Sensors, if you will, that tells their brain exactly what is happening to their body at every moment and allows them to react. There are receptors for pain and pleasure, as well as temperature, pressure, etc. Basic biology. Something hurts them, they react, plain and simple. Maybe the more basic insects don't feel pain in the sense we do, but for complex creatures, yes, they feel it just fine.
Have you ever seen a suffering animal? If you did, it would be clear to you that they can indeed feel pain. My dog had surgery a few weeks ago to remove a nasty tumor from his leg. When we got him home, he would constantly whine and try to pull the stitches out, and it just broke my heart.
He's been in three fights with bigger, meaner dogs, and each time I could see how hurt he was and it hurt me to see him like that. That's why I decided to go into the field of animal medicine, so I can end the suffering of animals so their owners don't have to experience the pain that comes with it.
If that's your cat, I think you should take him to a vet right away. If not, that can be considered animal cruelty.
Go ahead, say what you will about me, but at least I know it's not right to intentionally let a pet suffer just because you're under the delusion that they can't feel the pain from their wounds. That's why pain exists, to tell you that something has been injured and it needs to be tended to.


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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-26-2012, 04:31 AM

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Originally Posted by WrongGwendolyn View Post
All right, I can't pass on this thread, as I am going to be a veterinary technician after college and I care a lot about the wellbeing of every animal...
First of all, animals have nerve endings. Sensors, if you will, that tells their brain exactly what is happening to their body at every moment and allows them to react. There are receptors for pain and pleasure, as well as temperature, pressure, etc. Basic biology. Something hurts them, they react, plain and simple. Maybe the more basic insects don't feel pain in the sense we do, but for complex creatures, yes, they feel it just fine.
Have you ever seen a suffering animal? If you did, it would be clear to you that they can indeed feel pain. My dog had surgery a few weeks ago to remove a nasty tumor from his leg. When we got him home, he would constantly whine and try to pull the stitches out, and it just broke my heart.
He's been in three fights with bigger, meaner dogs, and each time I could see how hurt he was and it hurt me to see him like that. That's why I decided to go into the field of animal medicine, so I can end the suffering of animals so their owners don't have to experience the pain that comes with it.
If that's your cat, I think you should take him to a vet right away. If not, that can be considered animal cruelty.
Go ahead, say what you will about me, but at least I know it's not right to intentionally let a pet suffer just because you're under the delusion that they can't feel the pain from their wounds. That's why pain exists, to tell you that something has been injured and it needs to be tended to.
tl;dr

It's just a dumb animal. God tells us to use them as we see fit. Who cares what it feels.


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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-26-2012, 05:50 AM

Who cares what animals feel? The polar bear cub that i clubbed to death today (and ate it raw afterwards) screamed alot when i clubbed it, there can only be 2 answers to why it was screaming, 1. because it was feeling pain, 2. or that it was just faking and wanted me to believe it was feeling pain, in any case i don't care because it was just another stupid friggin' animal
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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-26-2012, 06:53 AM

Exodus 29:18 And thou shalt burn the whole ram upon the altar: it is a burnt offering unto the LORD: it is a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

The Bible is FULL of instructions for us to sacrifice animals to Him. Do you think that a loving God would do this if they felt distress as the knife slipped through their throat?

I don't think so. The millions of animals sacrificed to the Lord would not be aware of any discomfort as they bled to death.

YIC

Jack


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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-26-2012, 07:03 AM

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Originally Posted by Jack O'fagan View Post
Exodus 29:18 And thou shalt burn the whole ram upon the altar: it is a burnt offering unto the LORD: it is a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

The Bible is FULL of instructions for us to sacrifice animals to Him. Do you think that a loving God would do this if they felt distress as the knife slipped through their throat?

I don't think so. The millions of animals sacrificed to the Lord would not be aware of any discomfort as they bled to death.

YIC

Jack
Amen, Brother Jack. And do you suppose this woman sees the irony in her desire to become a "veterinary technician" and her so-called love of animals? Their primary duty is to euthanize animals that are no longer useful their owners.



It's a short walk from that occupation to a new career in the Obama utopia of abortion clinics in public schools.



YiC,

Zech


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Default 02-26-2012, 10:13 AM

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Originally Posted by WrongGwendolyn View Post
That's why I decided to go into the field of animal medicine, so I can end the suffering of animals .
That's pretty sick. Choosing a profession where you get to kill animals how horrible. My nephew was reading this and now he is crying because he thinks you will come and kill his pet cat Mittens.

Shame on you.
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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-26-2012, 05:15 PM

well here are some real life examples too think about. I poke a cat with a needle, it screams and runs away, then hides from me and never trusts me again. I poke a Tiger or bear with a needle... well you get the point. An animal, in which we can be classified as, can there for feel and register pain.

To mister Swedish Eskimo, allot of people care. If we didn't have animals we would die,end of story. Second, every thing feels pain so it doesn't hurt it's self (in fact trees feel pain too). An animal will not hold any part of its body in to a fire because it hurts.

and to you killing a polar bear cub for food, and you still being alive, good job but might I mention it wasn't the smartest choice. first off it doesn't have allot of meat on it (its a toddler for crying out loud) and secondly it is high rick because the mother may not be far behind. Personally, I'd watch my back from now on, sense the mother may be out for revenge or just to make you a meal.


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Default Re: Animals do not feel pain. - 02-26-2012, 06:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Rapture Joey View Post
well here are some real life examples too think about. I poke a cat with a needle, it screams and runs away, then hides from me and never trusts me again. I poke a Tiger or bear with a needle... well you get the point. An animal, in which we can be classified as, can there for feel and register pain.
Cat is an incredibly stupid animal, so of course it does not feel pain. You can hit it with hammer and it will still come to you next time you give it food. This however does not mean that it would not react to been hit by a hammer. It reacts to different situations just like ant and other insects.

Besides, I bet you have not poked any tigers or bears with needles, so you have no idea what you are talking about. I am sure that you have not even tried that needle scenario on any cat. I have killed many cats and they don't seem to mind it, so I know what I am talking about. How many cats have you killed or injured?
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