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Creation Science The origins of life and the earth from a creationist (Biblical) perspective.

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Default I'm tired of Bible deniers twisting the meaning of the word "kind" - 08-11-2014, 12:13 PM

In an effort to explain to biblioskeptics how all the animals fit on the Ark, liberal creationists such as Ray Comfort claim Noah didn’t have to take aboard two or seven of every single species; he only had to take representatives of each “kind,” and “microevolution” gave us all the species we have today. Creationist organisations seem to be constantly revising down the estimated number of kinds necessary to repopulate the planet, giving more and more ground to evolution.

For example, Dr Jonathan D Safarti of Creation Ministries International claimed in a 2012 article that the Biblical "kind" is equivalent to the evolutionist "genus." He believes the Ark only had to accommodate 8,000 genera, a total of 16,000 animals.

February of this year, in his debate with Bill Nye, Ken Ham, CEO of Answers in Genesis, argued Noah probably took only 7,000 animal kinds aboard the Ark. A month later, AiG published the following:

Quote:
[What] constitutes a “kind”? Is a kind what we’d today call a genus? A family?

The answer is still being researched, though evidence suggests in most instances it’s the family level . . . There may have been fewer than 1,000 Ark kinds. The most-recent research indicates that Noah only needed maybe 2,000-3,000 animals.

First off, what research? What evidence? No sources, no links. AiG expects us to take this on faith.

Nye calculated that if there were 7,000 kinds of animals on the Ark, on average, 11 new species would have to have come into existence every day for the Earth to contain all presently known species. If there were only 1,000 kinds on the Ark, 77 new species would have to have come into existence every day. This is what Ken Ham calls "microevolution." I call it macrohyperevolution on steroids. According to Hamian evolution, the giraffe (left) and the okapi (right) could have come from a common ancestor.























Furthermore, if the Biblical "kind" is equivalent to the evolutionary "family," then I suppose humans, gorillas, chimpanzees and orang utans all could have evolved from one pair of great apes aboard the Ark. It's a slippery slope once you concede so much evolution is possible.

But how does the Bible define "kind?" The Hebrew word is מִין, min. It is found in Leviticus 11.

13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.
[. . .]
29 These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,
30 And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.


Hawks, eagles and kites are members of the same taxonomic family, as are locusts and grasshoppers, yet the Bible classes them as separate kinds. Further distinctions are made among different kinds of eagle (the eagle, the gier eagle), hawk (the night hawk, the hawk) and locust (the locust, the bald locust). Weasels and ferrets belong to the same taxonomic genus, yet they are classed as different kinds. "Every raven after his kind" suggests there are different kinds of raven. All ravens belong to the same taxonomic genus (Corvus), so a "kind" of raven must be roughly equivalent to a "species" of raven or crow.

We can derive a pretty accurate definition of "kind" from Leviticus 11. Anyone who tries to say that eagles, hawks and kites all evolved from one pair of birds aboard the Ark is a Bible denier. The fewer kinds there were on the Ark, the more "macro" microevolution becomes. Some of these so-called creation scientists really need to read the Bible.


Mt 21:42, 44 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes . . . ? And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

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Default Re: I'm tired of Bible deniers twisting the meaning of the word "kind" - 08-11-2014, 02:10 PM

This is where science-philes like Ray Comfort and Kirk Cammeroon (who I'm led to believe used to make programs about cross breading birds and lizards for God knows what reason*) get all caught up in trying to be hip and up with the 'kids'.

There could have been zero animals on the Ark and God could still have repopulated the Earth as easily as you or I could demolish an atheists argument for homersexuality .

I have given absolutely no thought to the animals on the Ark as I trust Jesus has made sure that there are in fact enough animals on Earth to go around.

Can anybody guess why I'm so sure that God got it right?

Because He got it right! Here in 2014 there are exactly the right amount of animals in the world: think about it.

If there needed to be more or less there would be but there aren't. There is exactly the right amount of animals as decreed by Jesus.

Where Comfort and Cameroon get it wrong is thinking that Jesus cares what heathen psuedo scientists think when they talk about clades, and species and taxa. They think the elk or echidna, bear or barracuda, cow or cinchilla all some how created themselves

Nope.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Brainiacs like Comfort and Camerroon should stick to there laboratories

* It goes without saying that God does know.

YIC


1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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Default Re: I'm tired of Bible deniers twisting the meaning of the word "kind" - 08-11-2014, 02:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pim Pendergast View Post
According to Hamian evolution, the giraffe (left) and the okapi (right) could have come from a common ancestor.






















That is clearly impossible. Every picture of the ark contains 2 giraffes.
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Default Re: I'm tired of Bible deniers twisting the meaning of the word "kind" - 08-11-2014, 02:49 PM

Thank you, Brethren!

How wonderful that the exact science of Baraminology is presented in our Forum in a manner that is easily approachable also for the sinner, the heathen, the false Christian!

While I agree that for the Saved True Christian™ it is more than enough to trust God, determining the Ark Kinds helps us to counterargue against evil lootin', the second worst cause of apostasy at present. The Satanic scholars have since 1859 claimed that the Ark would not be feasible and it actually wouldn't - not with millions of 'species'. However, a thousand kinds could have been easily taken care of by Noah and his family with proper schedules, work timetables and careful planning! and surely, there was sea all over to take care of the manure!

Some well-researched articles can be located. Lightner et al. have determined the Mammal kinds and and a Godless researcher has been forced to admit that 8 dinosaur kinds were all that were required for the ark! (Senter P. 2011. J. Evol. Biol. 24: 2197-2216). Plenty of room!

Job 40:15-19 tells us more about dinosaurs.

Glory!

A nice enlightening image here!




Yours in Christ

Elmer


2 Kings 18:25 - Am I now come up without the LORD against this place to destroy it? The LORD said to me, Go up against this land, and destroy it.



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