Go Back   The Landover Baptist Church Forum > Church Forums > Creation Science
Reload this Page Proof of God via The Raven Paradox
Creation Science The origins of life and the earth from a creationist (Biblical) perspective.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
(#1)
Old
Ezekiel Bathfire's Avatar
Ezekiel Bathfire Ezekiel Bathfire is offline
Pastor for Diversity and Tolerance
Christ's Rottweiler
 

One Year/1000 posts Saved 1 Year 1st Year Bible College 2nd Year Bible College 3rd Year Bible College 4th Year Bible College True Christian™ The Al E. Pistle Award for Excellence in Rebuking Christian Love Real American™ Tithing Manager Heaven Bound Protected by JESUS True Scientist™ Pastor of GOD Ex-Masturbator Super Soaker Baptism Award Ready for the Rapture True Christian Caucasian Senior Pastor Teabag Patriot TC Bravery Friend of Jesus Flat Earth Tell her once Persecuted Porn Resistant The Hatchet Child Rearing Award Ex-Brit Eats the Most Pork True Republican Ex-eurotrash Batman Shooting Survivor Loves a GODLY Chic-Fil-A Guns, Guts and GLORY! Proud Niglet Sponsorer Kirk Cameron Fan Club Nuts for JESUS! Prayer Warrior Touched by Jesus Stamp of Approval Rick Perry's Niggerhead Ranch Mower Donald Trump 2016! Anti-sodomy Pastor Ezekiel Aardvark Bathfire Crown of Life Alternative Facts 

 
Posts: 20,574
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toiling selflessly towards Salvation
Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Ezekiel Bathfire will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!
Default Proof of God via The Raven Paradox - 03-11-2018, 01:33 AM

Proof of God via The Raven Paradox

Also known as Hempel’s Paradox, for the German logician who proposed it in the mid-1940s, the Raven Paradox begins with the apparently straightforward and entirely true statement that “all ravens are black.” This is matched by a “logically contrapositive” (i.e. negative and contradictory) statement that “everything that is not black is not a raven”—which, despite seeming like a fairly unnecessary point to make, is also true given that we know “all ravens are black.”

Hempel argues that whenever we see a black raven, this provides evidence to support the first statement. But by extension, whenever we see anything that is not black, like an apple, this too must be taken as evidence supporting the second statement—after all, an apple is not black, and nor is it a raven.

Hempel has proved that seeing an apple provides us with evidence, no matter how unrelated it may seem, that ravens are black.

We can take this further: seeing anything, say, item A, provides evidence for all other item, yet the evidence of item A is evidenced by the next thing we see – item B is not an apple – therefore A is an apple.

This means that the existence of everything is contingent upon the existence of everything else but not upon itself.

But wait! For Item A to be an apple it must have, among its identifiers, a unique identifier absent in all “non-Apples”. We will call this A’. It is the thing that makes it an Apple.

Everything that does not have A’ is not an apple.

If a new thing appears, then it must be accompanied by this unique identifier, without this identifier, no other item could refer to it in the negative -> No item that is not <insert unique identifier of X> is X” and thus the item would not have an identity and would not exist.

NB The Raven paradox applies to a unique identifier of a class – Ravens.

And this is the point: there is room in the universe for one thing whose “unique identifier” is that it does not have a unique identifier, as that condition is, itself, unique. It is also not a member of a class.

This means that the thing that cannot exist, can exist – but only one of them can exist but it cannot be described because of the absence of a unique identifier - and it is not part of a class.

There is not a “class of “Gods” we are agreed that, whatever else atheists might say, none of them say there is more than one “God”.

God is so magnificent that he cannot be described – He defies description. He is the unique Being that can exist without a unique identifier. And this is not unreasonable as within Him must be all possible identifiers, none of which are unique until he uses that identifier as a unique identifier for an object that is <insert unique identifier>.

We cannot say that if there is evidence, there is no evidence and the evidence is then that God must exist, and “that everything that is not indescribable is not God.”

This makes entire sense, as if you look at anything around you, you can say “That is not God” and, in the same way that “everything that is not black is not a raven” gives you evidence of Ravens (that nobody denies) the things that you look at give the evidence about God and if you look at enough things, the evidence is overwhelming.




Ec:7:16: Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?

Reply With Quote
(#2)
Old
James Hutchins's Avatar
James Hutchins James Hutchins is offline
True Christian™
Just a Regular Nice Guy
 

True Christian™ Silver Tither Christian Love Real American™ True Christian Provider™ award Heaven Bound Protected by JESUS Ex-Masturbator TC Bravery Gunfest '09 Ready for the Rapture Punched the most queers Jailed for JESUS True Christian Caucasian The Lord’s Witness Wound Teabag Patriot Mission to Australia One Year/1000 posts Friend of Jesus 2010 Witch Hunt Award Flat Earth Tell her once Persecuted Porn Resistant Pro-Life ex-sheep-shagger Mission to Las Vegas True Christian Hotrodder Saved 1 Year Eats the Most Pork 2011 Witch Hunt Award True Republican Sons of Liberty Batman Shooting Survivor Loves a GODLY Chic-Fil-A Guns, Guts and GLORY! Proud Niglet Sponsorer Truck Stop Ministry Member Hatchet Child Rearing Award Prayer Warrior 2012 Witch Hunt Award 20,000 posts Long service medal, 3rd class Home Schooled Touched by Jesus Stamp of Approval Early riser Kirk Cameron Fan Club Trump of GOD Mission to Korea Pancake Dinner Anti-sodomy Hands Off Pastor Ezekiel Crown of Incorruptibility Alternative Facts Mower Rick Perry's Niggerhead Ranch Crown of Righteousness Crown of Life Crown of Rejoicing BFF of Jesus Proud Survivor of the Overwatch Wars Probing for Jesus In Love With Zeke True Christian™ Cowboy 

 
Posts: 27,321
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Between Lynchburg and Walton's Mountain
James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!James Hutchins will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!
Bible Re: Proof of God via The Raven Paradox - 03-12-2018, 09:02 PM

Well said, Brother Bathfire. Once again, in plain American, you stated the irrefutable obvious fact and proof of God. Why the non-Christians refuse to accept the reality of incontestable data escapes me. I think it is just easier to take Gods Word® straight from the Bible than all the pointless time and effort non-believers do to deny His Perfection™.


Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Numbers 21:6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Reply With Quote
(#3)
Old
Johny Joe Hold's Avatar
Johny Joe Hold Johny Joe Hold is offline
Mayor of Freehold
 

Heaven Bound Protected by JESUS Ex-Masturbator Ready for the Rapture True Christian™ Christian Love Real American™ True Christian Caucasian TC Bravery Friend of Jesus Flat Earth Tell her once One Year/1000 posts Persecuted Porn Resistant Pro-Life Mayor True Republican Teabag Patriot Ex-liberal Saved 1 Year Batman Shooting Survivor Loves a GODLY Chic-Fil-A Guns, Guts and GLORY! Eats the Most Pork Prayer Warrior Touched by Jesus Mission to Korea Stamp of Approval Guns ablazin' Trump of GOD Donald Trump 2016! Pancake Dinner Anti-sodomy Pastor Ezekiel BFF of Jesus Wall of Jesus Alternative Facts Saved 5 Years 

 
Posts: 6,341
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: City Hall, Freehold, Iowa
Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!Johny Joe Hold will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!
Default Re: Proof of God via The Raven Paradox - 03-13-2018, 12:41 AM

Wow, Pastor Bathfire. A powerful piece of writing.

I am so grateful we have Pastors such as yourself here at Landover Baptist Church. We do not have to suffer religion lite like other churches.


Isaiah 24:1-3 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty (2)...as the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him. (3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken his word.
Reply With Quote
(#4)
Old
MitzaLizalor's Avatar
MitzaLizalor MitzaLizalor is offline
Completely CRAZY for the Lord
True Christian™

Protected by JESUS True Christian Caucasian Ready for the Rapture Heaven Bound Mission to Australia Christian Love Real American™ Friend of Jesus Flat Earth TC Bravery The Al E. Pistle Award for Excellence in Rebuking One Year/1000 posts Best stoning bucket True Christian Lady Pro-Life True Scientist™ True Christian™ True Christian Artist True Christian Beauty Most Obedient Batman Shooting Survivor Kangi Loves a GODLY Chic-Fil-A Guns, Guts and GLORY! Prayer Warrior Early riser Nuts for JESUS! Touched by Jesus Color wheel Trumpette Anti-sodomy Hands Off 1st Year Bible College 2nd Year Bible College 3rd Year Bible College 4th Year Bible College Saved 5 Years Stamp of Approval Tagging for Jesus In Love With Zeke BFF of Jesus God's chosen ones Proud Survivor of the Overwatch Wars Wall of Jesus Alternative Facts Grammar Nazi 

 
Posts: 8,853
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Leviticus Landing
MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!MitzaLizalor will sit at the right hand of Jesus Himself come the Glory!
Default Re: Proof of God via The Raven Paradox - 03-13-2018, 11:01 AM

So if I understand what you're saying, a universe devoid of the maximally undescribable entity contains less than the universe with it.



For the word "universe" to have meaning, it must stand in relationship to something else.



Since "universe" signifies all that conceivably may exist, which necessarily includes however many parallel realities there are even if they are imaginary and/or indescribable from our vantage point, the maximally undescribable entity must be the same for each cosmic vantage point whether at remote locations in the cosmos we observe or in some other cosmos altogether from which perspective we ourselves would be the imaginary and/or indescribable reality.



In that case, multiple disjunct bubbles would be less than multiple conjoined bubbles since the conjoining phenomenon would be something extra. Similarly, multiple conjoined bubbles themselves interspersed with other multiple conjoined bubbles results in multiple conjoining phenomena which..if I haven't misunderstood your model..renders those conjoining phenomena describable.



If they're describable then a portal opens to the maximally undescribable entity in paragraph one. Since its existence has results viz. the conjoining, the entity is not only undescribable but active.



I expect this is where atheists start raising topics like "albino ravens" but these are very easily refuted. If there were only one cosmos it would be synonymous with "universe" and the maximally undescribable entity could have only one effect. Creation.


John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


The next stage is not multiple multiverses, seriously turtles all the way down? but intricately unfurling creation where multidimensional surfaces become self aware. This is not only inexplicable but undescribable BECAUSE any description of the process itself needs to be explained. It is maximally undescribable, separate from the void yet expressed within it. And there can only ever be ONE maximally undescribable entity.


John 1:4-5 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Find Additional Forums Here



Powered by Jesus - vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Content Landover Baptist Forums © 1620, 2018 all rights reserved