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Default Re: Biblical infallibility REFUTED: Luke contradicts Matthew! - 05-31-2010, 08:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lupis78 View Post
The death of herod is in debate from anywhere from 8 bc to 1 bc. We don't know who was governor of syria from 4 to 1 bc so a theory has been pushed out that he was governer there on 2 occasions. The theory itself is thin but it is a theory none the less.
Well, the exact BC or AD dates don't matter very much, as Josephus was clear about the fact that that 9-10 years passed as Archelaus reigned, which was the period between the end of Herod's reign and the start of Cyrenius' reign.

As I've shown, Josephus confirms that Varus was the last governor of Syria during Herod's reign, and Saturninus the one before Varus, and both reigned several years, so Cyrenius couldn't have been governor if Jesus was born during the end of Herod's reign (according to Matthew 2:21, Jesus was still very young when they returned to Galilee).


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Default Re: Biblical infallibility REFUTED: Luke contradicts Matthew! - 05-31-2010, 09:10 PM

This does an excellent job of breaking apart your misunderstanding of the scriptures.


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Default Re: Biblical infallibility REFUTED: Luke contradicts Matthew! - 05-31-2010, 09:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Miss Cassandra View Post
Well, the exact BC or AD dates don't matter very much, as Josephus was clear about the fact that that 9-10 years passed as Archelaus reigned, which was the period between the end of Herod's reign and the start of Cyrenius' reign.

As I've shown, Josephus confirms that Varus was the last governor of Syria during Herod's reign, and Saturninus the one before Varus, and both reigned several years, so Cyrenius couldn't have been governor if Jesus was born during the end of Herod's reign (according to Matthew 2:21, Jesus was still very young when they returned to Galilee).
Which could still mean he was governer since Quirinius was governer in 6 and acording to josephus herod died towards the end of 4 bc there is still a 2 year gap of possibility. Of course if the dates for Quirinius being in galatia at the time are right then the point is proven. Then again josephus might of just gotten his dates wrong too you never can be sure with ancient sources.
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Default Re: Biblical infallibility REFUTED: Luke contradicts Matthew! - 05-31-2010, 09:23 PM

@lupis78 Please do not forget to make a thread of your own in the introductions section of the forum!


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Default Re: Biblical infallibility REFUTED: Luke contradicts Matthew! - 05-31-2010, 09:54 PM

oh i did don't worry.
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Default Re: Biblical infallibility REFUTED: Luke contradicts Matthew! - 05-31-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi Jones View Post
This does an excellent job of breaking apart your misunderstanding of the scriptures.
I have disproved everything I read there already. They propose that Augustus replaced Varus with Cyrenius for a short while, which is ridiculous, because:

1. All my previous arguments regarding the impossibility of the Romans holding a census in a client kingdom still apply.
2. Josephus does not mention this anywhere, though it would have severely affected this already tricky situation. He did tell a lot about the distrust between Varus and the jewish people, so why would he leave that essential fact away?
3. Herod was in Augustus' good grace, and Varus was a friend of him. Varus was not distrusted at that point by Augustus.
4. The census of 6 AD got a lot of attention from Josephus, as it brought a lot of turmoil to Judea. Why wasn't Luke clearer when referring to the census, if he really meant an earlier, obscure census? Why didn't he mention Herod in his entire gospel?
5. The Homonadensian revolt was squelched by Cyrenius during the time he supposedly would have held the census.
6. This explanation (Cyrenius being governor prior to 6 AD) isn't mentioned anywhere in the Bible, and neither in any historical document. The only reason people believe it is because it is necessary to believe it in order to believe in an infallible bible, not because there is any evidence, biblical or non-biblical.

Come on, Levi, you can do better. I know I already outwitted you at sunday school when I was thirteen, but this effort on your part was pitiable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lupis78 View Post
Which could still mean he was governer since Quirinius was governer in 6 and acording to josephus herod died towards the end of 4 bc there is still a 2 year gap of possibility. Of course if the dates for Quirinius being in galatia at the time are right then the point is proven. Then again josephus might of just gotten his dates wrong too you never can be sure with ancient sources.
1. the 6 applies to AD, while the 4 applies to BC, which means there is a ten year gap.
2. Josephus was not aware of the Anno Domini dating system, which was created in the sixth century. The dates given to the events result from calculations backwards in time, but the years between certain events are counted sometimes by Josephus, which is why we place events at a certain time interval apart, like the death of Herod and the accession of Cyrenius as governor of Syria.
3. About Josephus getting his sources wrong; only the non-existence of Archelaus could make the kingship of Herod and the governorship of Cyrenius happen at the same time. As Archelaus' existence is confirmed by the bible, this argument solves one error in the bible by creating another.


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Default Re: Biblical infallibility REFUTED: Luke contradicts Matthew! - 05-31-2010, 10:12 PM

Very good point...i don't believe it is possible anyway since the birth narratives are history prophesied and not memorized.
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