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Creation Science The origins of life and the earth from a creationist (Biblical) perspective.

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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 07:19 PM

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Originally Posted by JennyD View Post
Here's some advice for you, Mr. Jackkkkkkkassss Part II:

If you want to ask serious questions of us, define your questions and ask them. Don't simply ask, "what are your beliefs"?

We're Christians. We believe what the Bible says. If you want to know what we believe, try starting with Genesis.

Read the Creation Science section. We're not here to do your homework for you.

Also, learn how to spell "atheist". Look at the etymology of the word. "A- theist", having no gods. Not "athi- est", or the "most athi", whatever that would mean.
I do understand the etymology of the word, from the greek, theos. Unfortuantely my typing doesn't.

As i said before in this thread, I can find out what you belive, and perhaps why you belive it, from reading the bible. I, however, am not passionate about the bible [i dont mean that in a disrespectful way], so i would like to add the fire that is in your belief to the passion that is my acceptance.

Also, i dont really understand your first comment, but thank you for helping me.
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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 07:22 PM

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Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire View Post
Ge:1:1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[…]
Re:22:21: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

I think that sums it all up. OK, stuff happens in the middle and you need to read an understand that bit. However, the advantage is that once you do understand it all, then there is no reason to know anything else.
Did you look those up, or do you know them off the top of your head?
One of the major problems for me is having to find bible quotes to back up the opinions of people; would you happen to know any that specifically say that Evolution is incorrect? Or any that may suggest otherwise?

Thank you for giving me your knowledge of the scripture, it is invaluble, and i know that you hold the bible in the highest regard, but what other proof do you have?

Whenever i re-read these posts they all sound so patronising, i asure you that they are not designed to be, and i hope that i take nothing away from your holy book when i ask for alternative proofs.
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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 07:24 PM

I'm done helping you. All the information you seek is here or somewhere else on google. Good bye for now.


May you be a blessing to every life you touch.
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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 07:26 PM

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Originally Posted by ETHICSTUDENT View Post
Did you look those up, or do you know them off the top of your head?
One of the major problems for me is having to find bible quotes to back up the opinions of people; would you happen to know any that specifically say that Evolution is incorrect? Or any that may suggest otherwise?
Go here:

www.biblegateway.com

Read the first five chapters of Genesis. It should take you less than 10 minutes.

God created everything. That means that it didn't evolve from mud.

Microevolution -- within a genus -- is accepted. Dog breeding is one prime example. This is exactly what Darwin supported.

If you bothered to read "On the Origin of Species" before writing a paper on evolution, you'd know that Darwin never suggested that evolution explained life "evolving" from raw chemicals, which came from an explosion of nothing into something.

Macroevolution -- a fish "evolving" into a dog -- is not accepted by Christians.


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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JennyD View Post
Go here:

www.biblegateway.com

Read the first five chapters of Genesis. It should take you less than 10 minutes.

God created everything. That means that it didn't evolve from mud.

Microevolution -- within a genus -- is accepted. Dog breeding is one prime example. This is exactly what Darwin supported.

If you bothered to read "On the Origin of Species" before writing a paper on evolution, you'd know that Darwin never suggested that evolution explained life "evolving" from raw chemicals, which came from an explosion of nothing into something.

Macroevolution -- a fish "evolving" into a dog -- is not accepted by Christians.
thank you so much; this is exactly the kind of thing i am looking for:

shades of grey within the two subject areas, and the differences between them.

However, i have read Genesis, and On the Origin of Species; i would be foolish to try and write a report without doing so.
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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ETHICSTUDENT View Post
thank you so much; this is exactly the kind of thing i am looking for:

shades of grey within the two subject areas, and the differences between them.

However, i have read Genesis, and On the Origin of Species; i would be foolish to try and write a report without doing so.
Then why are you claiming that Darwin denied God's existence and believed that all life came from an explosion of nothing into something?


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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 07:45 PM

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Originally Posted by Nobar King View Post
I'm done helping you. All the information you seek is here or somewhere else on google. Good bye for now.
Thank you Nobar; i was pleasantly suprised by your willingness to help me, and your ability to not let our conflicting views hinder us.

You have been very helpfull. [And thank you for helping me with my latin;p]
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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 07:48 PM

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Originally Posted by JennyD View Post
Then why are you claiming that Darwin denied God's existence and believed that all life came from an explosion of nothing into something?
I dont think that i did; i happen to know that darwin was a highly devout man who delayed the pubishing of his book because he thought it would be damaging to his faith.

Im also not claiming anything on this forum, just asking you to claim things.
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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ETHICSTUDENT View Post
I dont think that i did; i happen to know that darwin was a highly devout man who delayed the pubishing of his book because he thought it would be damaging to his faith.

Im also not claiming anything on this forum, just asking you to claim things.
Then why put evolution AGAINST creationism? Why not show how they work together?

And you still haven't asked us an actual question.


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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 08:00 PM

I asked it, because that is the exam question which i have been set:

Discuss the conflict Between Science and Religion with reference to Evolution and Creationism.

The issue is not with Creationism or Evolution, it is just that, in my opinion, the confict being asked in the question is more pronounced between Evolution and Creationism than any other topic; others on this site call it Evilution.

"Creationists ask if ­people believe in evolution. Evolution is a theory and a fact. You accept it because of the evidence. What the creationists have done is put a cloak of pseudo-science to wrap up their religious belief."

James Williams, a lecturer at Sussex University


you asked for a question: how do you react to that quote? Is it a fair analysis, or is it putting all Creationists into one box?

Also, do you have an official position within the church? Not that it matters, just so i can give you your full title should i quote you in an essay.

thank you.
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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 08:19 PM

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Originally Posted by ETHICSTUDENT View Post
others on this site call it Evilution.
That is because evolutionists claim the Bible is false.

They often then claim that they are Christian and believe in God, while denying that the Bible is true. This confuses people, who then think they can have both.

God is all or nothing.

Quote:
"Creationists ask if ­people believe in evolution. Evolution is a theory and a fact. You accept it because of the evidence. What the creationists have done is put a cloak of pseudo-science to wrap up their religious belief."

James Williams, a lecturer at Sussex University
Which is it? A theory, or a fact?

Does Mr. Williams not know the difference?

There is ample evidence of micro-evolution. We agree with that. Look at the black/white moths case study. (I'll let you dig that up.)

There is limited evidence of macro-evolution. Never once have the so-called "missing links" been found, for example. How is something a "fact" when you don't have full evidence?

Further, if monkeys evolved into humans through "natural selection", why is it there are still monkeys co-existing with humans, where they supposedly "evolved"? If the human was superior, why did the monkey continue to persist? Does that not argue directly against the "natural selection" theory?

Finally, evolution (change in time within animal and plant species) is used by atheists like yourself to explain the origins of life. In no way has it ever been shown that life can arise spontaneously, but evolutionists are all-or-nothing. They claim that because a dog can be cross-bred with other dogs to create a new breed, or that the dominant coloration of a population of moths changes over time as those who match their surroundings survive or do not, that it means that several chemicals struck by lightning can create complex living organisms.

Where did the chemicals come from, and the lightning? Evolution has no explanation other than "a big explosion of something from nothing".


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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 09:05 PM

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Originally Posted by JennyD View Post
That is because evolutionists claim the Bible is false.

They often then claim that they are Christian and believe in God, while denying that the Bible is true. This confuses people, who then think they can have both.

God is all or nothing.


Which is it? A theory, or a fact?

Does Mr. Williams not know the difference?

There is ample evidence of micro-evolution. We agree with that. Look at the black/white moths case study. (I'll let you dig that up.)

There is limited evidence of macro-evolution. Never once have the so-called "missing links" been found, for example. How is something a "fact" when you don't have full evidence?

Further, if monkeys evolved into humans through "natural selection", why is it there are still monkeys co-existing with humans, where they supposedly "evolved"? If the human was superior, why did the monkey continue to persist? Does that not argue directly against the "natural selection" theory?

Finally, evolution (change in time within animal and plant species) is used by atheists like yourself to explain the origins of life. In no way has it ever been shown that life can arise spontaneously, but evolutionists are all-or-nothing. They claim that because a dog can be cross-bred with other dogs to create a new breed, or that the dominant coloration of a population of moths changes over time as those who match their surroundings survive or do not, that it means that several chemicals struck by lightning can create complex living organisms.

Where did the chemicals come from, and the lightning? Evolution has no explanation other than "a big explosion of something from nothing".
I suggest you watch a TV program that Sir David Attenborough made for the BBC called Darwin and the tree of life. It is probably on Youtube. It shows you evidence for missing links.

I am aware of the Black White moth case, and the reason why there are monkeys and humans co-existing is the same reason that there is grizzley bears and polar bears; the evolved in order to adapt to different conditions.

I have never read anywhere that evolutionists claimed that chemicals struck by lightning created life- wasnt that frankenstein? Anyway, the theory of evolution does not attempt to explain the birth of life, just its, ahem, evolution.

I belive that Dr. Williams was saying that it is something that you accept, rather than something you belive; a theory, and a fact, rather than a belief, and opinion.

Do you have a position within the church? Also, do you feel that the quote unfairly views all Creatonists as the same- trying to find science to back up their claims?
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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ETHICSTUDENT View Post
I suggest you watch a TV program that Sir David Attenborough made for the BBC called Darwin and the tree of life. It is probably on Youtube. It shows you evidence for missing links.
No, this merely shows lies designed to turn people from God.
Quote:
I am aware of the Black White moth case, and the reason why there are monkeys and humans co-existing is the same reason that there is grizzley bears and polar bears; the evolved in order to adapt to different conditions.
Rubbish! God made them like that and Adam named them.
Quote:
I have never read anywhere that evolutionists claimed that chemicals struck by lightning created life- wasnt that frankenstein?
No it wasn’t but I’m glad to see your young mind is not totally corrupted with the evil of secular science
Quote:
Anyway, the theory of evolution does not attempt to explain the birth of life, just its, ahem, evolution.
…and it doesn’t do it as well as the Bible.
Quote:
Do you have a position within the church?
Kneeling before Christ.
Quote:
Also, do you feel that the quote unfairly views all Creatonists as the same
No, they are not the same, none of them agree. They all have their own “theories”
Quote:
trying to find science to back up their claims?
No, they are enemies of God bent on the work of the devil.

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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 10:27 PM

Thank you Ezekiel Bathfire, and although i can see you are very strong in your faith, could you re-write the same message as if you were preaching to the uniniated? There is nothing in there that i can quote in an essay. Maybe you could just build upin what you said?
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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-07-2009, 11:14 PM

You really are a bloody idiot damned to beg for crusts of bread outside the great hall of heros in the afterlife..

Quote:
As an Athiest, i firmly belive that Evolution is the most credible theory for the birth of life


TWIT! you don't even know your own heathen ideology. Abiogenesis is your crackpot theory for the beginning of life NOT evolution. gah!

Quote:
If you were to draw the line X-Y, you would mark 3 points on the graph
NO you stupid git! you would mark TWO points with a line named XY. Mr smarty farty pants pooped his pants.

Quote:
to explain the basis of your faith to anyone who reads it, and then i will take any information i feel relevant and twist and distort it to make you look bad and stupid because that's how I roll.
Well you are a cheeky mf I'd say that for sure.

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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-08-2009, 12:19 AM

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Originally Posted by ETHICSTUDENT View Post
Thank you Ezekiel Bathfire, and although i can see you are very strong in your faith, could you re-write the same message as if you were preaching to the uniniated? There is nothing in there that i can quote in an essay. Maybe you could just build upin what you said?
Now I get it. You're here to see if you can find ridiculous quotes you can use to poke fun at us.

Later, punk.

(Thanks, Star Finder, for translating from "atheist God-mocker" to English.)


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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-08-2009, 12:24 AM

Won't his teacher be surprised when she googles his paper and finds he stole references from here.

Can we just call her and warn her?


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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-08-2009, 01:35 AM

Why are some people just destined to burn in Hell?
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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-08-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Once was lost View Post
Why are some people just destined to burn in Hell?
Because God wants it that way! Glory!!

Quote:
"God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation." -- Jude 4


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

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Default Re: Science and Religion - 03-08-2009, 06:53 PM

ETHICSTUDENT:

Im sorry you all think that i am trying to make you into some kind of joke.

I detest Dawkins and Wilson etc because their books are just mediums through which to spout their own opinions, rather than give a detailed study of the subject.

My point 'Mr Smarty Farty', was that if you draw one line with only 2 points, if one of the points is wrong, your line is wrong, whereas if you draw 3, you can be sure that the line is correct. This is basic maths.

It is interesting that most of you were civil towards me before he joined the thread; sudenly because he makes up a fake quote about me, you all belive that i am making a joke.

As for the latin, Nobar kindly picked me up on a spelling error; it doesnt mean that i am gay, thank you.

Also Nobar, i belive that a man of your intellect should realise that i wont be ripping my essay verbatim of of this website- how could i, that would hardly be objective. Quoting philosophers and theologians is perfectly acceptable, but it seems that the only theologian here with a position in the church can only say that his BENEVOLENT god jsut randomly want people to go to hell.

I hope that, if you take anything from this, you will realise the reason why you are made into pariahs in the press; you cannot be civil to people with conflicting beliefs to yours; i can get on fine with muslims, hindus, gay, straight, anyone- i might not like what they stand for, but i can at least talk to them without thinking that they will twist my words and make me look stupid.

You might think that i am an 'Atheist God -Mocker', but i have tried very hard to not offend you on this website, considering i am (was?) a guest in your religious website. I am under no illusion that you would grant me the same respect on an Atheist forum.

No-one but the examiner and my teacher would ever see this essay- it would not have been in my interest to make you look stupid, i was just trying to find Creationist opinions from people who are not 300 years old, like the christian philosophers i can quote from today.

I hope that your twisted opinions of me, Star Finder, help to boost your already poor rating with this site. I find it ironic that he has a worse rating than me, but is not banned.

Whilst i understand that, for most of the time, you are 'preaching to the converted' in Landover, surely you must realise the importance of debate, if only to further your own ideas.

This thread had been achiveing so much- i felt that, through the contributions by JennyD, Nobar, and, to an extent, Bathfire, i was starting to collect relevant information and opinions, and my personal feelings about extremistic christians were beggining to mellow. Im afraid that Star Finder, and people like him, are the people who are making Creationists look stupid.

I feel that my treatment here was unjustified; i am not the worst atheist on this formum by no means, and i did not make you, or ask you at all to question your faith.

Thank you, all of you who helped me. I feel sorry for those of you who feel so insecure in your convictions that you cannot debate them with me.

I will still post the final draft of my work on this thread.
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