[Grant]

Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe

Wikipedia is a tool of liberal propaganda. Pleased use and fair and balanced source to quote like Conservapedia.

Also do not see how The Bible is an invalid account. Since it was written over 2,000 years makes it primary source information.

Do you think something called "Conservapedia" is fair and balanced? That wikipedia clone sounds like "Lets create a totally opposite website to the LIEberal wikipedia. The wikipedia isn't any sort of conspirational propaganda. Its just the reality."

First of all: there were older information sources than the Bible. Egyptians, Aztecs... knew about astronomy, and their civilization appeared 3600 years febore biblie was writen, so they are 5600 years old. Bible is only 2000 years old. Also, egyptians knew that there were planets, and Bible said that "there is earth and heaven".
Second: even if the Bible was the first writen book, it doesnt give any real proof other than faith.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Originally Posted by Oniros

Do you think something called "Conservapedia" is fair and balanced? That wikipedia clone sounds like "Lets create a totally opposite website to the LIEberal wikipedia. The wikipedia isn't any sort of conspirational propaganda. Its just the reality."

First of all: there were older information sources than the Bible. Egyptians, Aztecs... knew about astronomy, and their civilization appeared 3600 years febore biblie was writen, so they are 5600 years old. Bible is only 2000 years old. Also, egyptians knew that there were planets, and Bible said that "there is earth and heaven".
Second: even if the Bible was the first writen book, it doesnt give any real proof other than faith.

1) Even your most atheistic anthropologists and historians would laugh if you said the Aztecs predate the Bible by over 3600 years! The Aztecs came much, much later and their golden age was between 1200-1500 AD.

2) The Egyptians existed long ago, yes, the Bible tells us that. But how could the Egyptians predate Adam and Eve if they were the only people around?

3) The Bible is more than 2,000 years old. I believe you're thinking of the New Testament which was first made about that time. The OT goes back much earlier.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

1) Even your most atheistic anthropologists and historians would laugh if you said the Aztecs predate the Bible by over 3600 years! The Aztecs came much, much later and their golden age was between 1200-1500 AD.

2) The Egyptians existed long ago, yes, the Bible tells us that. But how could the Egyptians predate Adam and Eve if they were the only people around?

3) The Bible is more than 2,000 years old. I believe you're thinking of the New Testament which was first made about that time. The OT goes back much earlier.

i was referring to egyptians.
Well, even if the old testament is older than that, its not yet older than egyptians.
First civilizations predate Adan and Eve for one logic reason: Adan and Eve didnt exist. They were created by people who didnt know too much about earlier civilizations. When it was demonstrated that earlier civilization existed, christianism attempted to arrange it by saying that Adan and eve was a metaphore. Also, even egyptians had more knowledge about architecture, astronomy, medicine... than the ones who wrote the Bible.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Originally Posted by Oniros

i was referring to egyptians.
Well, even if the old testament is older than that, its not yet older than egyptians.
First civilizations predate Adan and Eve for one logic reason: Adan and Eve didnt exist. They were created by people who didnt know too much about earlier civilizations. When it was demonstrated that earlier civilization existed, christianism attempted to arrange it by saying that Adan and eve was a metaphore. Also, even egyptians had more knowledge about architecture, astronomy, medicine... than the ones who wrote the Bible.

Of course Adam and Eve existed. The Bible tells us so. Are you calling God a liar?

[Grant]

And could you give any real proof other than the Bible to demonstrate the historycal existence of Adan and Eve?.

No, i dont call God a liar; because the Bible was written by men, not by God.

[Bobby-Joe]

Originally Posted by Oniros

i was referring to egyptians.
Well, even if the old testament is older than that, its not yet older than egyptians.
First civilizations predate Adan and Eve for one logic reason: Adan and Eve didnt exist. They were created by people who didnt know too much about earlier civilizations. When it was demonstrated that earlier civilization existed, christianism attempted to arrange it by saying that Adan and eve was a metaphore. Also, even egyptians had more knowledge about architecture, astronomy, medicine... than the ones who wrote the Bible.

That's absurd, the Jews spend considerable periods of their history in Egypt, remember Moses was an adopted Egyptian prince, and Mesopotamian during the Babylonian Exile. It is reasonable to assume their knowledge were at the same level as any other Middle Eastern culture at the time. Heck, the Egyptians co-opted the Ten Commandments into their Book of the Dead and the Babylonians borrowed the story of Moses for the Epic of Gilgamesh.

[Grant]

what? It was crhistianity which borrowed all these things. Every thing of crhistianism is borrowed for other religions that crhistianism exterminated. Even the crhistianism demons are borrowed...Lucifer, Leviathan, belial, Baphomet, all were gods from other religions. Crhistianity borrowed their names and images and turned them into demons to make them something forbidden.

[Bobby-Joe]

Originally Posted by Oniros

what? It was crhistianity which borrowed all these things. Every thing of crhistianism is borrowed for other religions that crhistianism exterminated. Even the crhistianism demons are borrowed...Lucifer, Leviathan, belial, Baphomet, all were gods from other religions. Crhistianity borrowed their names and images and turned them into demons to make them something forbidden.

Is it borrowed or did this other religions pre-steal these concepts under instruction by Satan himself to mock God? I think it is a matter of interpretation here. Do keep in mind that Lucifer, Beil, Leviathan were all demons who disguised themselves as a false gods to fool men.

[Grant]

False demons?...

I will put you a example:
Baphomet. Was an ancient god of the abundancy and fertility. Abundancy and fertility are two vaules well seen by christians. Then why would a demon teach crhistian values if they is agaisnt God? That doesn't make sense. It would be a very stupid demon. And even its image was demonyzed. Its original image was colorful and lightful. The baphomet image of crhistianity looks like the "evil" version, typical red eyed, dark colored monster.

[Bobby-Joe]

Originally Posted by Oniros

False demons?...

I will put you a example:
Baphomet. Was an ancient god of the abundancy and fertility. Abundancy and fertility are two vaules well seen by christians. Then why would a demon teach crhistian values if they is agaisnt God? That doesn't make sense. It would be a very stupid demon. And even its image was demonyzed. Its original image was colorful and lightful. The baphomet image of crhistianity looks like the "evil" version, typical red eyed, dark colored monster.

,....

You truly are an Idiot Oniros

Go do some research clown head and stop speaking threw your backside.
Baphomet was a medieval Christian slander of the false Prophet Mohamed of Islam you ignorant fool.

This is up there with your previous pig ignorant deceleration that Aztecs pre-date the writing of The Bible.

[Bobby-Joe]

Originally Posted by Oniros

False demons?...

I will put you a example:
Baphomet. Was an ancient god of the abundancy and fertility. Abundancy and fertility are two vaules well seen by christians. Then why would a demon teach crhistian values if they is agaisnt God? That doesn't make sense. It would be a very stupid demon. And even its image was demonyzed. Its original image was colorful and lightful. The baphomet image of crhistianity looks like the "evil" version, typical red eyed, dark colored monster.

,....

You truly are an Idiot Oniros

Go do some research clown head and stop speaking threw your backside.
Baphomet was a medieval Christian slander of the false Prophet Mohamed of Islam you ignorant fool.

This is up there with your previous pig ignorant deceleration that Aztecs pre-date the writing of The Bible.

[Grant]

hey you, the FIRST baphomet was a pagan god with the form of a goat, in reference of the goat that feed the greek god Zeus. Once, one of its horns broke and fruits and other food came from it. Baphomet is a pagan god based on that goat. And i think that "form" of baphomet was before the medieval age.

And i said on my last posts that i was referring to egyptians, not aztecs.

And i didnt come here insulting anyone, and i found like 5 insults from you in the last post.Respect me.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Originally Posted by Oniros

And could you give any real proof other than the Bible to demonstrate the historycal existence of Adan and Eve?.

What about the fact that there are unbroken genealogical records that connect people back to Adam and Eve.

Here is King Charlemagne's family tree:

Charlemagne (Charles the Great), King of the Franks, Holy Roman Emperor b 742, d 814, Aix-La-Chapelle.
Pepin III, the Short, King of the Franks, father of Charlemagne & son of Charles MARTEL b 714, d 768.
. Bertha, wife of Pepin III d 783.
. Childebrand, Duke of Swabia, father of Hildegard.
. Ealhmund, King of Kent, father of Ecgberht.
Charles MARTEL, the Hammer, Mayor of Austrasia and Neustria, son of Pepin (II) b 690, d 741.
. Rotrude, mother of Pepin III.
. Charibert, Count of Laon, father of Bertha.
Pepin (II) CRASSUS, of Heristal, Mayor of Austrasia and Neustria, son of Anchires d 714.
. Alphaida, mother of Charles MARTEL.
Anchires, Duke of Brabant, Mayor of Austrasia, Margrave of the Schelde, son of Arnulphus d 685.
. Begga, mother of Pepin (II).
St. Arnulphus, Bishop of Metz, son of Arnoaldus d 640.
. Doda, of Saxony, mother of Anchires.
. Pipin, of Landen, father of Begga.
. Itha (Ida), mother of Begga.
Arnoaldus, Margrave of Schelde, son of Anspert d 601.
. Oda, of Swabia, mother of Arnulphus.
Anspert (Asopert), son of Ferreolus d 570.
. Blitildis, mother of Arnoaldus.
Ferreolus, Duke of Moselle, son of Sigimerus.
. (wife of Ferreolus), daughter of Clovis MAGNUS, King of France.
. Clothary I, father of Blitildis.
Sigimerus, son of Clodius d 491.
. (wife of Sigimerus), daughter of Ferreolus TONANTIUS, a Roman Senator.
Clodius (Clodio), King of the Franks, son of Pharamond d 448.
. Basina, mother of Sigimerus.
Pharamond, King of the West Franks, Duke of the East Franks, son of Marcomir d 427.
. Argotta, "mother of all the kings of France," wife of Pharamond.
. Weldephus, King of the Thuringians, father of Basina.
Marcomir, Duke of the East Franks, son of Clodius.
. Genebald, last Duke of the West Franks, father of Argotta 419.
Clodius, son of Dagobert 389.
. Priam or Dagobert, first Duke under the Romans, father of Genebald 389.
Dagobert, son of Genebald 379.
. Clodius V, father of Priam (or Dagobert) 378.
Genebald, son of Dagobert 358.
. Theodomir, father of Clodius V 360.
Dagobert, son of Walter 317.
. Richimir, father of Theodomir 350.
. Hastila, wife of Richimir.
Walter, son of Clodius III 306.
. Clodomir IV, father of Richimir 337.
Clodius III, son of Bartherus 298.
. Dagobert, father of Clodomir IV 317. (Same as 55th generation, son of Walter.)
Bartherus, son of Hilderic 272.
Hilderic, son of Sunno 253.
Sunno (Huano), son of Farabert 213.
Farabert, son of Clodomir IV 186.
Clodomir IV, son of Marcomir IV 166.
. Hafilda, mother of Farabert, daughter of the king of the Rugil.
Marcomir IV, son of Odomir 149.
. Athildis, mother of Clodomir IV.
Odomir, son of Richemer 128.
. Coilus, King of the Britains, father of Athildis.
Richemer, son of Ratherius 114.
Ratherius, son of Antenor IV 90.
Antenor IV, son of Clodemir III 69.
Clodemir III, son of Marcomir III 63.
Marcomir III, son of Clodius II 50.
Clodius II (Clodio), son of Francus 20 A.D.
Francus, first King of the West Franks, son of Antharius 11 B.C.
Antharius, King of the Sicambri, son of Cassander.
Cassander, King of the Sicambri, son of Merodachus 74 B.C.
Merodachus, King of the Sicambri, son of Clodomir II 95 B.C.
Clodomir II, King of the Sicambri, son of Antenor II 123 B.C.
Antenor II, King of the Sicambri, son of Clodius 143 B.C.
Clodius, King of the Sicambri, son of Marcomir II 159 B.C.
Marcomir II, King of the Sicambri, son of Nicanor 170 B.C.
Nicanor, King of the Sicambri, son of Clodomir 198 B.C.
. (wife of Nicanor), daughter of Elidure, King of the Britains.
Clodomir, King of the Sicambri, son of Bassanus 232 B.C.
Bassanus MAGNUS, King of the Sicambri, son of Diocles 250 B.C. (He slew his son Sedanus for adultery.)
. (wife of Bassanus), daughter of the king of the Orcades.
Diocles, King of the Sicambri, son of Helenus 300 B.C.
Helenus, King of the Sicambri, son of Priamus 339 B.C.
Priamus, King of the Sicambri, son of Antenor 358 B.C.
Antenor, King of the Sicambri, son of Marcomir 384 B.C.
. Cambra, mother of Priamus.
Marcomir, King of the Sicambri, son of Antenor 412 B.C.
Antenor, King of the Cimmerians, first King of the Sicambri, son of Helenus IV 443 B.C.
Helenus IV, King of the Cimmerians, son of Primo IV.
Primo IV, King of the Cimmerians, son of Marcomiro I.
Marcomiro I, King of the Cimmerians, son of Diluglio II.
Diluglio II, King of the Cimmerians, son of Plaserio III.
Plaserio III, King of the Cimmerians, son of Heleno III.
Heleno III, King of the Cimmerians, son of Diluglio I.
Diluglio I, King of the Cimmerians, son of Almadion.
Almadion, King of the Cimmerians, son of Getmalor.
Getmalor, King of the Cimmerians, son of Priamo III.
Priamo III, King of the Cimmerians, son of Alexandro.
Alexandro, King of the Cimmerians, son of Basabiliano II.
Basabiliano II, King of the Cimmerians, son of Plesron II.
Plesron II, King of the Cimmerians, son of Helenus II.
Helenus II, King of the Cimmerians, son of Priamas II.
Priamas II, King of the Cimmerians, son of Antenor I.
Antenor I, King of the Cimmerians, son of Plaserio II.
Plaserio II, King of the Cimmerians, son of Gaberiano.
Gaberiano, King of the Cimmerians, son of Eliacor.
Eliacor, King of the Cimmerians, son of Plesron I.
Plesron I, King of the Cimmerians, son of Plaserio I.
Plaserio I, King of the Cimmerians, son of Basabiliano I.
Basabiliano I, King of the Cimmerians, son of Gelio.
Gelio, King of the Cimmerians, son of Esdron.
Esdron, King of the Cimmerians, son of Franco.
Franco, King of the Cimmerians, son of Genger.
Genger, King of the Cimmerians, son of Helenus I.
Helenus (Heleno) I, son of Priam I. (Brother-in-law of Helen of Troy.) Survived Trojan War.
. Andromache, mother of Genger, daughter of Aetion, King of Cilician Thebes.
Priam I, King of Troy, son of Laomedon 1184 B.C.
. Hecuba, mother of Helenus I, daughter of Cisseus or Dymas.
Laomedon, King of Troy, son of Ilus.
Ilus (Illo), son of Tros 1260 B.C.
. Eurydice, mother of Laomedon.
Tros, son of Ericthonius 1314 B.C.
. Callirhoe, mother of Ilus, daughter of Scamander.
Ericthonius, son of Dardanus 1374 B.C.
. Astyoche, mother of Tros.
Dardanus, founder of Troy, son of Blascon 1449 B.C. (Mythologically, son of Jupiter and Electra.)
. Basia, mother of Ericthonius.
Blascon, son of Cambo.
Cambo, son of Blascon.
Blascon, son of Altheo.
Altheo, son of Thusco.
Thusco, son of Hercules.
Hercules, son of Dodanim.
Dodanim, son of Javan. (Genesis 10:4)
Javan, son of Japheth.
Japheth, son of Noah.
NOAH, son of Lamech b 2948 B.C., d 1998 B.C. (Builder of the Ark; saved from the Flood.)
Lamech, son of Methuselah.
Methuselah, son of Enoch. Lived 969 years.
Enoch, father of Jared.
Jared, son of Mahalaleel.
Mahalaleel, son of Cainan.
Cainan, son of Enosh.
Enosh, son of Seth.
Seth, son of Adam and Eve.
Adam (formed of the dust of the ground; Genesis 2:7.)
. Eve ("mother of all living;" Genesis 3:20.)

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[James Hutchins]

You know, I have been sitting here, quietly reading these God haters spew lies. There is one book that explains everything. All you have to do is read it. These God Mockers have to get one or two word snippets from 100's of unrelated books to cobble up their packs of lies. Rev. Osborne was asking a simple set of questions that the Bible definitively answers. But these Satanists come here and will not accept a single one. Even when it is categorically proven they are completely wrong. Why do they hate so much? All I know is if God says something and some schmuck from Peoria says something else, who do you think I am going to believe?

[Jenni111]

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

I fear she may be led astray further by Satan in the meantime.

I'm not being led astray by Satan :/

[Grant]

There are some incongruencys in that genealogic tree.

Could you name me who was the woman Seth had a son with? or Enosh? or Cainan?... That means that even if Adan and eve existed, they weren't the only ones in the world...where was the antecessors of the woman that had a son with Seth?. And if there were no more humans than Adan and Even, it means that Seth had a son with his sister, and Enosh too, and Cainan too...That's called Incest, and its a very probable cause that you fail at having a sane son. And as i think, incest is considered a depravity by crhistianism, as homosexualism.

[Bobby-Joe]

Originally Posted by Oniros

hey you, the FIRST baphomet was a pagan god with the form of a goat, in reference of the goat that feed the greek god Zeus. Once, one of its horns broke and fruits and other food came from it. Baphomet is a pagan god based on that goat. And i think that "form" of baphomet was before the medieval age.

Congrats, you fell for a 19th Century hoax, you dumb arse.

Some wannabe sorcerer pulled the whole Egyptian god thing out of his backside to peddle to gullible rubes like you. The whole idea is utterly absurd since Europe only information on ancient Egypt was from The Bible and a few Greeks until the Rosetta Stone was translated in the 19th Century. That is, what? Eight hundred years before the Song of Roland was written in France in the 12th Century and the name "Baphoment" first appears.

Here is your clue for today Oniros; The DaVince Code is a work of fiction.

<- Oniros

Originally Posted by Oniros

And i said on my last posts that i was referring to egyptians, not aztecs.

And i didnt come here insulting anyone, and i found like 5 insults from you in the last post.Respect me.

You deserve to be insulted with the nonsense you are spewing. I believe in talking bushes and men surviving their own death's and I find you a utterly hopeless victim of ignorance and fable.

How dare you Oniros accuse us Christians of being misinformed.

[Grant]

I never said that baphomet term comes from egypt... I say that baphomet took its image from the goa that fed Zeus, and it means fertility, abundance and widsom. baphomet is a mix of two greek terms that mean "baptized" "in knowledge". Mahoma's head sculpture is considered "baphometic" because the tree heads sculpture symbolized knowledge.(your medieval origin). But, if that was the first time the word appeared... then why does have the baphomet demon the goat form? why baphomet is a greek term instead of latin or arabic term? And even if baphomet had its origins on mahoma... why do you represent him as a goat with horns?

And no, i dont deserve to be insulted. I didnt insult anyone, as i said.

And no, i dont think DaVinci Code is real. I know its false.

[Grant]

Sorry for double posting. i meant "goat" insteand of "goa", and "three" instead of "tree"

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Originally Posted by Oniros

Could you name me who was the woman Seth had a son with? or Enosh? or Cainan?... That means that even if Adan and eve existed, they weren't the only ones in the world...where was the antecessors of the woman that had a son with Seth?. And if there were no more humans than Adan and Even, it means that Seth had a son with his sister, and Enosh too, and Cainan too...

I have no way of knowing what their wives names were. Back then, the women weren't usually recored in genealogical records. Yes, Seth would have had to marry a sister, but Enosh would have had cousins to choose from, and Cainan would have had second cousins available.

Originally Posted by Oniros

That's called Incest, and its a very probable cause that you fail at having a sane son. And as i think, incest is considered a depravity by crhistianism, as homosexualism.

We were created in God's image and were therefore perfect. It wasn't until after the vapor canopy collapsed to cause the flood that our atmosphere lost its protection against mutagenic solar radiation, paving the way for harmful mutations. Those mutations are what make incest a recipe for birth defects. That's why 2000 years later during the time of Moses, once enough mutations were in the gene pool to cause problems, God gave us laws against incest to prevent that very thing. That's proof of God's wisdom right there.

Pastor Billy-Reuben