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Catholic Superstition The lies of the Catholic "church" exposed in light of the truth of Scripture

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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 08-31-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire View Post
You are suggesting that I, Ezekiel Bathfire, Pastor at Landover BAPTIST Church, model myself on a man whom the vicar of Rome ‘knows’ is in heaven because he said so?
Yup

Quote:
Have you taken leave of your senses?


Nope
You haven't ever read about one have you? There is no Saint unworthy of the repect we give them.

BUT, I can understand where you are coming from. "How can we KNOW they are in heaven if it is God's judgement alone that decides this?"

Well let me ask you a question, how do you KNOW that you are saved?

Quote:
Would I ask a second time if I were even considering you had explained anything?
Sigh. Well seeing as you are too lazy to scroll up and read what I posted before, I'll post it again. I apologize to anyone who has to read this twice, but Mr. Bathfire here missed it the first time around

As I said, I don't intend to convince you to see the Bible my way. Rather only to understand Catholic interpretations. We interpret these passages as literal.

To me, the directions Christ gives are quite simple:

1. Take this and it eat it. (Thus, we take this and eat it)

2. This is my body. (Thus, this is his body)

3. Do THIS in memory of me. (Thus, we do THIS in memory of Him)

Note that Jesus did not say: This is LIKE my body, REPRESENTS my body, or is a SYMBOL of my body. IS my body. So, I believe that this IS His body, because well, that's what he said...

Why do we interpret this literally? GOOD QUESTION!! old and i'll be delighted to answer!

The problem here is that he said "do this", and just before he said "Take and eat, this is my body" (Matthew 26:26) This to me means basically that this is his body. Because that's what he says. In fact, it is the same in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. (I can explain John if you'd like but I'm sure you know where the bread of life colloquy is found)

Nowhere does it explain or refer or even suggest that Jesus did not change the bread into his body. Thus, when Jesus says to "do this" he means to "do this", to change bread into his body, just as he did.

Why he would say "Take and eat, this is my body." If he didn't want us to take and eat because this is his body?

However, the most concrete answer I can give lies elsewhere in the Bible. Surely you will agree that back in the time of Christ, if you were to talk SYMBOLICALLY about eating a man's flesh and drinking his blood, it meant to physically assault that man. Please see:

Psalms 27:2; Isaiah 49:26; Micah 3:3; 2 Samuel 23:15-17; Revelation 17:6, 16

Do you really think Christ intended for us all to beat him to a pulp? And more specifically, at the last supper, do you think wanted all his apostles to attack him? Confused? I would be. Your interpretation doesn't even make sense.

I'll explain further with John 6:50-69, which states,
{This is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?" Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever." These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?" Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life." {See note} But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father." As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. Jesus then said to the Twelve, "Do you also want to leave?" Simon Peter answered him, "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God."}
Note 1: - Verse 62-63 states "Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

What Our Lord says here is not intended a Maldonatus thought, to increase the scandal, but to rectify what was simply a cannibalistic interpretation of what he has just said. The Ascension will perhaps surprise the recalcitrants more, but it will eliminate the chief difficulty about eating the flesh of One who in celestial glory takes his place where he was from eternity.

Note 2: - Notice that the close followers of Our Lord, the "disciples" LEFT HIM because this was a hard saying. Then Our Lord asks Peter if he will leave him too. Peter representing the 12 apostles says: "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. WE HAVE COME TO BELIEVE (John 6:69)". My personal note to my separated brethren: Come join us and BELIEVE!

If you read one of my posts and don't see how it pertains to what we are saying, you gotta be specific. You can't just tell me it doesn't make sense and expect me to help you understand somehow. Tell me what verse does not pertain, tell me what it REALLY means, then you can tell me it does not pertain. Otherwise, to me it seems you simply cannot come up with retaliation.

Quote:
”Why not?” (i) you are putting yourself forward as the apologist for The Whore of Babylon – you tell me why not? (ii) God either hears you or He does not – Chinese whispering through endless dead people is not going to help! Why should He listen to them when He knows all about you anyway? What are they going to say that you can’t? What are they going to tell Him that He does not know?
Hmm. Okay a couple questions for you then....

First, why do you see this as any different than any regular prayer? Why should I ask my fellow Christians to pray for me and not ask those that have gone before? What is the difference?

Secondly, you say:
"God either hears you or He does not ...Why should He listen to them when He knows all about you anyway? What are they going to say that you can’t? What are they going to tell Him that He does not know?"
So I ask, what can my fellow Christians do that I can't? Why not just pray by myself to God? Why do I need their help? After all, why should he listen to them when he knows all about you anyway? What are they going to say that I can't?

Quote:
And what’s a cookie jar got to do with it, or is that where your priests keep their death-cookies?
Running a little low on answers here? Feel like you need to attack my metaphors? Haha, well that's okay, I've got all the answers you'll need

Quote:
Just a minute, does your lot not assert that following His crucifixion that Jesus descended to Hell to preach and save the souls there? Not much point if they are, as you say, “dead.”
Good question! This is why I like coming here
Ok. By his death and Resurrection, Jesus opened heaven. Prior to that time all who died went to "hell"; however, the just went to a place in hell referred to as "the Bosom of Abraham," where they would be comforted. The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) seems to indicate that there were two parts of hell. Both Lazarus and the rich man died and went to hell, but Lazarus was comforted in the bosom of Abraham while the rich man was in a place of torment. A great chasm separated the two parts.
Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell"— Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek—because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God. Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham’s bosom": "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell." Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.

Quote:
And what of the pit of brimstone? A bit of an anti-climax if everyone in it is dead…
Dead of spirit, not of flesh. I think you are a little confused here, let my try to explain.

To be in hell does not mean that you are "dead" as in ceasing to exist. They are however, cut off from God, for eternity, thus they are "dead" of the spirit for they are without God... But just because they EXIST ETERNALLY in hell forever does not mean that they have ETERNAL LIFE. Surely you agree that there is a difference between existing eternally and eternal life. Those in hell are dead.

Quote:
Until you can provide a satisfactory answer to praying to saints and mary, this is the only point worth addressing:
(i) Joh:14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(ii) http://www.keithhunt.com/Enochhea.html - just as a talking point, you understand.
So you believe that Elijah, Moses, and Enoch were not taken into heaven but rather brought to some random void in space or....? It seems like heaven to me... Even though heaven was closed off at this point because Christ had not died, God can make a few special exceptions He is God after all....

So to you, if it is not explicitly stated in the Bible, it is untrue, even if it is reasonable inferred?
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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 08-31-2009, 02:50 AM

Catholic - Christian, you are doing an AWESOME job handling these heathens, far better than I have done, I think. You really know how to point out how stupid and wrong these maniacs are. All they care about is the Bible, Bible, Bible! They don't care a bit about what the Church says, it's sad


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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-10-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic - Not Christian View Post
[...] You haven't ever read about one have you? There is no Saint unworthy of the repect we give them.
That was said by a man who knew nothing of God's judgment.

Quote:
BUT, I can understand where you are coming from. "How can we KNOW they are in heaven if it is God's judgement alone that decides this?"

Well let me ask you a question, how do you KNOW that you are saved?
I do not need to answer questions before you give an answer to mine.

Quote:
but Mr. Bathfire here missed it the first time around

[...]We interpret these passages as literal.

To me, the directions Christ gives are quite simple:

1. Take this and it eat it. (Thus, we take this and eat it)

2. This is my body. (Thus, this is his body)

3. Do THIS in memory of me. (Thus, we do THIS in memory of Him)

Note that Jesus did not say: This is LIKE my body, REPRESENTS my body, or is a SYMBOL of my body. IS my body. So, I believe that this IS His body, because well, that's what he said...
Have you ever tried to explain a vehicle accident in a restaurant? The first thing you do is pick up a salt shaker and say, "This is me."... Anyone who then took the salt shaker would not be arrested for kidnap. Hello!


[lots of irrationality deleted]

Quote:
First, why do you see this as any different than any regular prayer?
Regular Pray you speak directly to God - anything else is not prayer. There is NO irregular prayer.

Quote:
Secondly, you say:
"God either hears you or He does not ...Why should He listen to them when He knows all about you anyway? What are they going to say that you can’t? What are they going to tell Him that He does not know?"
Can I have an answer?

Quote:
So you believe that Elijah, Moses, and Enoch were not taken into heaven but rather brought to some random void in space or....? It seems like heaven to me... Even though heaven was closed off at this point because Christ had not died, God can make a few special exceptions He is God after all....
It is a mistake, fatal to the very soul, to assume what God may do.

Quote:
So to you, if it is not explicitly stated in the Bible, it is untrue, even if it is reasonable inferred?
If it doesn't say it, it didn't happen. Your example is a straw man; e.g. when the Bible says Jesus left for Galilee, we can assume he walked. When something miraculous happens, we cannot understand miracles and thus we may not assume a solution as, probably, the solution is equally amazing - almost unbelievable.





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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-10-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic - Not Christian View Post
There is no Saint unworthy of the repect we give them.
What about Mother Theresa? She ran the least hospitable hospices in the world, took money from dictators, and was an atheist. Surely she's not worthy of respect.

Quote:
Well let me ask you a question, how do you KNOW that you are saved?
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.... Mark 16:16

Quote:
To me, the directions Christ gives are quite simple:
Quote:

1. Take this and it eat it. (Thus, we take this and eat it)

2. This is my body. (Thus, this is his body)

3. Do THIS in memory of me. (Thus, we do THIS in memory of Him)
Were you at the last supper? No? Then why do you think Jesus was talking to you? He was talking to His disciples assembled there at the time.

Quote:
Why do we interpret this literally? GOOD QUESTION!!
Because you're not very bright and you've been brainwashed. I once saw a guy throw up after he got back from Church, and I can assure you there was bread and wine in his stomach, not flesh and blood. I'll admit, though, I once saw a Catholic priest turn an Oreo into a Hydrox. That was pretty impressive.


Quote:
Surely you will agree that back in the time of Christ, if you were to talk SYMBOLICALLY about eating a man's flesh and drinking his blood, it meant to physically assault that man. Please see:
Quote:

Psalms 27:2; Isaiah 49:26; Micah 3:3; 2 Samuel 23:15-17; Revelation 17:6, 16
Those verses tell us that people who want to eat the flesh of others are evil. It's true.

Quote:
I'll explain further with John 6:50-69, which states,
Quote:
{This is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
You need to understand the service at the Jewish Passover. It's all symbolic. When the Jews raise the matzoh and say "this is the bread of affliction that our ancestors ate in the land of Egypt," they don't mean that it's exactly the same piece of matzoh.

Quote:
What Our Lord says here is not intended a Maldonatus thought
Please don't start discussing obscure 16th Century philosophers here. This is a church website, not a Philosophy Department roundtable. We really, really do NOT care what Maldonado though.


Quote:
If you read one of my posts and don't see how it pertains to what we are saying, you gotta be specific.
OK. You drone on and on in different fonts, yet you say nothing. It's tiresome.

Quote:
First, why do you see this as any different than any regular prayer? Why should I ask my fellow Christians to pray for me and not ask those that have gone before? What is the difference?
The difference is that they are DEAD:

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5

Quote:
I ask, what can my fellow Christians do that I can't? Why not just pray by myself to God?
First, you're not Christian, you're Catholic, so you don't have "fellow Christians." Second, you should pray by yourself:

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father in secret shall reward thee openly. Matthew 6:6

Quote:
Why do I need their help? After all, why should he listen to them when he knows all about you anyway? What are they going to say that I can't?
They don't.

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. 1 John 5:14-15

If you have faith, God will answer your prayer. You don't need to ask anyone to pray for you. But it isn't sinful to ask them, provided they are still alive.

Quote:
Running a little low on answers here?
No, we have a Bible full of answers. You need to get over yourself, your arguments aren't hard to deflect, they're unthoughtful and unbiblical.

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Feel like you need to attack my metaphors?
You don't speak in metaphors. You speak in nonsense. There's a big difference.

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Haha, well that's okay, I've got all the answers you'll need.
Haha.

Quote:
The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) seems to indicate that there were two parts of hell. Both Lazarus and the rich man died and went to hell, but Lazarus was comforted in the bosom of Abraham while the rich man was in a place of torment. A great chasm separated the two parts.
Jesus said that he told parables to confuse people like you who are destined to burn in Hell so you wouldn't accept Jesus. We don't believe the things Jesus said in parables.

Quote:
Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell"— Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek—because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.
Chapter and verse please.

Quote:
Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.
I give up. You're getting all of this nonsense from the Cartoon Bible, right? Because no adult would believe crap like this.

Quote:
So you believe that Elijah, Moses, and Enoch were not taken into heaven but rather brought to some random void in space or....?
Elijah ascended into heaven alive in a whirlwind, naked. Moses died and was buried, he didn't ascend bodily into heaven. There are four Enochs mentioned in the Bible, and there's no reason to believe that any of them died Saved.

Quote:
So to you, if it is not explicitly stated in the Bible, it is untrue, even if it is reasonable inferred?
You haven't reasonably inferred anything.


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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-11-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WWJDnow View Post
What about Mother Theresa? She ran the least hospitable hospices in the world, took money from dictators, and was an atheist. Surely she's not worthy of respect.
Do a little honest research. Please.

Quote:
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.... Mark 16:16
To believe we must love Jesus and follow all of his commandments and ask forgiveness for a failures. Constantly. For we sin constantly. You can hope that you will be saved, but in no way can this be a past event. You could always fall from grace, no matter how saved you claim to be.

Quote:
Were you at the last supper? No? Then why do you think Jesus was talking to you? He was talking to His disciples assembled there at the time.
In the same way that we believe the Ten Commandments to not only apply to the Israelites, Catholics recognize this commandment as applying to everyone as well.

Quote:
Because you're not very bright and you've been brainwashed. I once saw a guy throw up after he got back from Church, and I can assure you there was bread and wine in his stomach, not flesh and blood.
Flesh and blood under the appearance of bread and wine. Just like the Last Supper.

Quote:
Those verses tell us that people who want to eat the flesh of others are evil. It's true.
Wrong. Let me help you understand.

Psalm 27:2 When evildoers come at me to devour my flesh, these my enemies and foes themselves stumble and fall.

This is a case where the Bible speak symbolically about eating flesh. And in this case, it means to do physical harm to the person.

Isaiah 49:26 I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh, and they shall be drunk with their own blood..."

Also here, you see that the Bible speak symbolically about eating flesh. And also in this case, it means to exact physical hurt upon that person.

Micah 3:3 They eat the flesh of my people, and flay their skin from them, and break their bones. They chop them in pieces like flesh in a kettle, and like meat in a caldron.

And again, symbolic speech of eating flesh. Equivalent to physical assault.

Revelation 17:6 I saw that the woman was drunk on the blood of the holy ones and on the blood of the witnesses to Jesus.

And again, drunk with blood. Symbolically that is. She has killed many holy ones as we see, she has caused them physical harm.

Revelation 17:16 The ten horns that you saw and the beast will hate the harlot; they will leave her desolate and naked; they will eat her flesh and consume her with fire.

Are you catching on now? Back in Jesus' time to speak symbolically about eating flesh meant to physically assault or even kill that person. There is no way around it. You simply did not speak symbolically about eating flesh unless you meant to assault someone.

Thus, your claim that Jesus spoke to the crowd in
John 6:50-69 telling them "unless you physically assault me, you will not have eternal life". That is the ONLY thing it could of been. Unless however, you recognize that he was NOT in fact speaking metaphorically.

Couple this view with these verses:
Matthew 26:26 - "Take and eat, this is my body."
Mark 14:22, 24 - "This is my body ... This is my blood of the covenant."
Luke 22:19-20 - "This is my body, which will be given for you ... new covenant in my blood"
1 Corinthians 11:24 - "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
Acts 20:7 - "first day of the week when we gathered to break bread"

And the Catholic interpretation is clearly defined.

Quote:
You need to understand the service at the Jewish Passover. It's all symbolic. When the Jews raise the matzoh and say "this is the bread of affliction that our ancestors ate in the land of Egypt," they don't mean that it's exactly the same piece of matzoh.
You need to understand that we are not Jewish, we are Catholic. This means nothing to me.

Quote:
Please don't start discussing obscure 16th Century philosophers here. This is a church website, not a Philosophy Department roundtable. We really, really do NOT care what Maldonado though.
Fair enough.

Quote:
The difference is that they are DEAD:

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5
This statement is based on a very imperfect concept of life beyond the grave. The NT corrects this:

Mark 12:26-27 - he is not the God of the dead but of the living, you are greatly misled.

This speaks about raising the dead. It is answering questions about the Resurrection and raising the dead, this did not make sense to the Jews much as it does not make sense to you now. Those in heaven (the Saints) are not dead but have eternal life. Their bodies are dead, yes, but it is not their bodies that we ask to pray for us but their spirits who are now in the hand of God.

Quote:
First, you're not Christian, you're Catholic, so you don't have "fellow Christians."
And you say I have been brainwashed...

Quote:
Second, you should pray by yourself:

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father in secret shall reward thee openly. Matthew 6:6
Pray in secret is all this verse commands. This forbids public displays of faith, for that is not the purpose or prayer. Prayer is between us and God, and no one needs to observe. However, one can pray in secret without being alone:

Matthew 18:19-20 Again, I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Acts 1:14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.

Acts 4:24When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. "Sovereign Lord," they said, "you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and everything in them.

Quote:
They don't.

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. 1 John 5:14-15

If you have faith, God will answer your prayer. You don't need to ask anyone to pray for you. But it isn't sinful to ask them, provided they are still alive.
I agree with all this except that must still be alive, but I already told you why we believe that.

Quote:
Jesus said that he told parables to confuse people like you who are destined to burn in Hell so you wouldn't accept Jesus. We don't believe the things Jesus said in parables.
Woah dude... I'm afraid I can't agree with you here. Nothing in the Bible has the intention of misleading anyone. God would never purposely lead His sheep astray. And you say you do everything the Bible commands? With a few exceptions I see....

Quote:
Chapter and verse please.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 - "pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord"

Those in Hell are separated from God forever. Capiche?

Quote:
I give up. You're getting all of this nonsense from the Cartoon Bible, right? Because no adult would believe crap like this.
Faith of a child

Quote:
Elijah ascended into heaven alive in a whirlwind, naked. Moses died and was buried, he didn't ascend bodily into heaven. There are four Enochs mentioned in the Bible, and there's no reason to believe that any of them died Saved.
Genesis 5:24 - Enoch walked with God, then was no more, because God took him.

Hebrews 11:5-6 - It was because of his faith that Enoch was taken up and did not experience death: he was no more, because God took him; because before his assumption he was acknowledged to have pleased God. Now it is impossible to please God without faith, since anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and rewards those who seek him.


Quote:
You haven't reasonably inferred anything.
Opinion noted.


Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-12-2009, 02:32 AM

Mother Theresa was a hellbound demon from day one, which has been well-documented HERE.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-12-2009, 05:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic - Not Christian View Post

To believe we must love Jesus and follow all of his commandments and ask forgiveness for a failures. Constantly. For we sin constantly. You can hope that you will be saved, but in no way can this be a past event. You could always fall from grace, no matter how saved you claim to be.
Wrong. Once saved, always saved.

John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 10:27-29: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.


Romans 8:35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Hebrews 3:14: For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,


Ephesians 2:4-6: But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

2 Timothy 2:13: If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Hebrews 9:12: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].

Psalms 121:1-8: I will lift up my eyes to the hills From whence comes my help? My help [comes] from the LORD, Who made heaven and earth. He will not allow your foot to be moved; He who keeps you will not slumber. Behold, He who keeps Israel Shall neither slumber nor sleep. The LORD [is] your keeper; The LORD [is] your shade at your right hand. The sun shall not strike you by day, Nor the moon by night. The LORD shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul. The LORD shall preserve your going out and your coming in From this time forth, and even forevermore.

Psalms 37:28: For the LORD loves justice; he will not forsake his saints. They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off.

Quote:
Thus, your claim that Jesus spoke to the crowd in John 6:50-69 telling them "unless you physically assault me, you will not have eternal life". That is the ONLY thing it could of been. Unless however, you recognize that he was NOT in fact speaking metaphorically.
Jesus is talking about how He is going to be crucified. By His violent death, we are given the chance of eternal life.

Quote:
This speaks about raising the dead. It is answering questions about the Resurrection and raising the dead, this did not make sense to the Jews much as it does not make sense to you now. Those in heaven (the Saints) are not dead but have eternal life. Their bodies are dead, yes, but it is not their bodies that we ask to pray for us but their spirits who are now in the hand of God.


Quote:
Woah dude... I'm afraid I can't agree with you here. Nothing in the Bible has the intention of misleading anyone. God would never purposely lead His sheep astray. And you say you do everything the Bible commands? With a few exceptions I see....
Actually, that is straight from the Bible



Matthew 13: 10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.



Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Quote:
Those in Hell are separated from God forever. Capiche?
Psalm 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

Quote:
Faith of a child
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine.
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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-12-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
Mother Theresa was a hellbound demon from day one, which has been well-documented HERE.
I said honest research. Not your landover propaganda. And certainly not from an Atheist website. What were you thinking?

Here is an article from EWTN:

*SATANIC CATHOLIC LINK DELETED*

Everyone goes through dark times, nobody is perfect. Mother Teresa however gave everything to God, even when in doubt she held nothing back. THAT is worthy of a little respect.

PS I don't see you in India trying to minister to abhorrent anti-Christians.


Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Last edited by Meek and Humble; 09-12-2009 at 06:31 PM.
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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-12-2009, 06:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
You know not of what you speak. Pastor Ezekiel has gone on many missionary voyages into Asian countries, though he has tended to go to the places with Chinese people instead of the brown people.
My honest apologies to Pastor Ezekiel.

Question though: What do you mean "brown" people? Why does that matter?


Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-13-2009, 02:28 AM

Oh, it doesn't matter. I was just letting you know the good Pastor dealt with a different group of abhorrent pagans then did Mother Theresa.
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Thumbs up Re: I am Catholic. - 09-17-2009, 09:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
Wrong. Once saved, always saved.

John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Again, it doesn't say if you believe once you're good forever. You can always choose to stop.

Quote:
John 10:27-29: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
Note that these are all external forces acting upon you. Never does the Bible say that no action of our own could remove us Christ's Love. We can always turn away.

Quote:
Romans 8:35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Note again, all external forces. And another note, that Sin is not mentioned. Not once. By choosing Sin you reject God's teachings, but rejecting God's teachings, you reject God's love. You can always remove yourself from God's love.

Quote:
Hebrews 3:14: For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
IF we hold our confidence to the END. See? You can fall away. All the way up to that last moment. It's always a choice.

Quote:
Ephesians 2:4-6: But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Yup. Though Baptism and repentance we are brought to life in Christ. But, it doesn't say we can fall away... You have been saved, but you can still leave. Unless you believe that, because it is written in the past tense, it is a done deal. If this is the case, then we are "sitting together in heavenly places" already are we not? For that is also in the past tense?
No, this passage simply urges people to remember their grim past that they were dead in sin, as so that they do not return.

Quote:
2 Timothy 2:13: If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
And what is your claim here I wonder? That we can be saved without any faith? None at all? Doesn't this contradict scripture?
Did you read the verse just before?

"If we have died with him we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him. But if we deny him he will deny us" 2 Timothy: 11-12(emphasis added)

Perseverance. Why do we need to persevere if we were saved once and it was done?

Quote:
Ephesians 1:13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Hahaha. Our Bibles read differently here. Where yours claims it is a "guarantee" mine here reads "first installment". Please see my thread about the errors of the KJV:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showt...t=29097&page=3

But what can we agree on? Im sure you would agree that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit at Baptism... But that seems to be just about it. Allow me to offer another verse speaking of Baptism as the first installment:

"he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment." 2 Corinthians 1:22

But even if your "bible" also says here that it is "guarantee" then why must we persevere as stated in 2 Timothy? You will see, the KJV is full of such errors.

Quote:
Hebrews 9:12: Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].
Yes... He obtained it. But no where does it say that you are forced to accept it. And no where does it say that you cannot later deny it.

Quote:
Psalms 121:1-8: I will lift up my eyes to the hills From whence comes my help? My help [comes] from the LORD, Who made heaven and earth. He will not allow your foot to be moved; He who keeps you will not slumber. Behold, He who keeps Israel Shall neither slumber nor sleep. The LORD [is] your keeper; The LORD [is] your shade at your right hand. The sun shall not strike you by day, Nor the moon by night. The LORD shall preserve you from all evil; He shall preserve your soul. The LORD shall preserve your going out and your coming in From this time forth, and even forevermore.

Psalms 37:28: For the LORD loves justice; he will not forsake his saints. They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off.
Ok. Now for my part. I see you give many verses talking about being saved as a done deal. It's already happened, you're bound for heaven, right? For example:

Romans 8:24 - for in hope you were saved
Ephesians 2:5, 8 - by grace you have been saved through faith
2 Timothy 1:9 - he saved us, called us, according too his grace
Titus 3:5 - he saved us through the bath of rebirth, renewed by the Holy Spirit



But it is also spoken of in a present tense, as an ongoing act:



Present Event: I am being saved
Philippians 2:12 - work out your salvation with fear and trembling
1 Peter 1:9 - as you attain the goal of your faith, salvation



And even more so in a future tense, one that has not yet happened:



Future Event: I hope to be saved
Matthew 10:22 - he who endures to the end will be saved
Matthew 24:13 - he who perseveres to the end will be saved
Mark 8:3-5 - whoever loses his life for my sake will save it
Acts 15:11 - we will be saved through the grace of Jesus
Romans 5:9-10 - since we are justified, we shall be saved
Romans 13:11 - salvation is nearer now, then first believed
1 Corinthians 3:15 - he will be saved, but only as through fire
1 Corinthians 5:5 - deliver the evil man's natural life to Satan so his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord
Hebrews 9:28 - Jesus will appear a second time to bring salvation


Christ tells the apostles at the Last Supper to remain in his love. He adds that if we keep his commandments we will remain in his love. But he who does not remain in his love is "cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" (John 15:6). Now, if salvation were a done deal, why would Jesus feel the need to tell anyone to remain in his love? It would be like locking a person in a closet and telling them to remain there. If they are unable to leave, it is senseless to ask them to remain.

In Romans 11:22, Paul says, "Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off."

In Galatians 5:4, Paul says, "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace."

I can't say it more plainly that scripture itself. You can fall away. Do you deny it?

[QUOTE]
Jesus is talking about how He is going to be crucified. By His violent death, we are given the chance of eternal life. [QUOTE]
Then your claim is that we must all individually assault Christ? The passage says that we must all take part of this so... Is this what you do?

Quote:
Actually, that is straight from the Bible



Matthew 13: 10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.



Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
You, as a Christian, are "supposed" to have an understanding like the Apostles. You have no authority to reject part of Scripture. We as Christians have an enlightened view of the Parables, unlike Scribes and the Pharisees and those that still dwell in sin. We can understand. We are not told to deny them. You have no right to deny Holy Scripture.



Quote:
Psalm 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 - "pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord"

And we seem to be at a direct contradiction.
I see this psalm as a figurative way of stating that God is always there. But surely you agree that God is not within wicked people? Why then would He be in a wicked place? Thessalonians agrees.



Quote:
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
This entire passage speaks of love and not of faith, which you must have as a child: "Unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" Mathew 18:3

Quote:
1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
This was only written to chastise the Corinthians for their pride of tongues as a sign of God's favor, a means of direct communication with Him. This in no way undermines the fact that we must "become as little children"

Quote:
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine.
This teaches that we must not be easily swayed in our faith. And also in no way undermines that we must "become as little children".
These verses were all taken out of context.


Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-17-2009, 10:30 PM

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Originally Posted by Catholic - Not Christian View Post
Again, it doesn't say if you believe once you're good forever. You can always choose to stop.

Note that these are all external forces acting upon you. Never does the Bible say that no action of our own could remove us Christ's Love. We can always turn away.

(rest of wall of text deleted).
(What are you a Jesuite do drone on like that?)

Friend,

You forget one thing in your reading of scripture, which has always been the fatal blind spot of Catholics; the power of God. There is no way we can defy God's will. When God says "You can chose to stop accepting Christ's love" He means "I God, can force you to chose to stop accepting Christ's love and damn yourself to Hell that is how powerful I am maggot".

Is that simple enough?



Time to reclaim our FREEDOM from the “Mullah in Chief” and his growing activist voter hoards of socialists, communists, anti-Semites, anti-Christians, atheists, radical gays and lesbians, feminists, illegal immigrants, Muslims, anti-Anglo whites and others.

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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-18-2009, 01:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby-Joe View Post
(What are you a Jesuite do drone on like that?)

Friend,

You forget one thing in your reading of scripture, which has always been the fatal blind spot of Catholics; the power of God. There is no way we can defy God's will. When God says "You can chose to stop accepting Christ's love" He means "I God, can force you to chose to stop accepting Christ's love and damn yourself to Hell that is how powerful I am maggot".

Is that simple enough?
Does this mean I should forsake His commandments? Does this mean I should not worship? Does this mean I should dwell in sin? Do you deny that we have free will to follow God?


Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-18-2009, 02:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic - Not Christian View Post
Does this mean I should forsake His commandments? Does this mean I should not worship? Does this mean I should dwell in sin? Do you deny that we have free will to follow God?
You have already forsaken God's commandments and abused the Free Will that He bestowed upon us by choosing to worship the roman pope (aka whore of babylon).


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!
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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-18-2009, 03:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic - Not Christian View Post
Again, it doesn't say if you believe once you're good forever. You can always choose to stop.

Note that these are all external forces acting upon you. Never does the Bible say that no action of our own could remove us Christ's Love. We can always turn away.

Note again, all external forces. And another note, that Sin is not mentioned. Not once. By choosing Sin you reject God's teachings, but rejecting God's teachings, you reject God's love. You can always remove yourself from God's love.

IF we hold our confidence to the END. See? You can fall away. All the way up to that last moment. It's always a choice.

Yup. Though Baptism and repentance we are brought to life in Christ. But, it doesn't say we can fall away... You have been saved, but you can still leave. Unless you believe that, because it is written in the past tense, it is a done deal. If this is the case, then we are "sitting together in heavenly places" already are we not? For that is also in the past tense?
No, this passage simply urges people to remember their grim past that they were dead in sin, as so that they do not return.

And what is your claim here I wonder? That we can be saved without any faith? None at all? Doesn't this contradict scripture?
Did you read the verse just before?

"If we have died with him we shall also live with him; if we persevere we shall also reign with him. But if we deny him he will deny us" 2 Timothy: 11-12(emphasis added)

Perseverance. Why do we need to persevere if we were saved once and it was done?

Hahaha. Our Bibles read differently here. Where yours claims it is a "guarantee" mine here reads "first installment". Please see my thread about the errors of the KJV:

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=29097&page=3

But what can we agree on? Im sure you would agree that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit at Baptism... But that seems to be just about it. Allow me to offer another verse speaking of Baptism as the first installment:

"he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment." 2 Corinthians 1:22

But even if your "bible" also says here that it is "guarantee" then why must we persevere as stated in 2 Timothy? You will see, the KJV is full of such errors.

Yes... He obtained it. But no where does it say that you are forced to accept it. And no where does it say that you cannot later deny it.

Ok. Now for my part. I see you give many verses talking about being saved as a done deal. It's already happened, you're bound for heaven, right? For example:

Romans 8:24 - for in hope you were saved
Ephesians 2:5, 8 - by grace you have been saved through faith
2 Timothy 1:9 - he saved us, called us, according too his grace
Titus 3:5 - he saved us through the bath of rebirth, renewed by the Holy Spirit


But it is also spoken of in a present tense, as an ongoing act:



Present Event: I am being saved
Philippians 2:12 - work out your salvation with fear and trembling
1 Peter 1:9 - as you attain the goal of your faith, salvation


And even more so in a future tense, one that has not yet happened:



Future Event: I hope to be saved
Matthew 10:22 - he who endures to the end will be saved
Matthew 24:13 - he who perseveres to the end will be saved
Mark 8:3-5 - whoever loses his life for my sake will save it
Acts 15:11 - we will be saved through the grace of Jesus
Romans 5:9-10 - since we are justified, we shall be saved
Romans 13:11 - salvation is nearer now, then first believed
1 Corinthians 3:15 - he will be saved, but only as through fire
1 Corinthians 5:5 - deliver the evil man's natural life to Satan so his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord
Hebrews 9:28 - Jesus will appear a second time to bring salvation

Christ tells the apostles at the Last Supper to remain in his love. He adds that if we keep his commandments we will remain in his love. But he who does not remain in his love is "cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" (John 15:6). Now, if salvation were a done deal, why would Jesus feel the need to tell anyone to remain in his love? It would be like locking a person in a closet and telling them to remain there. If they are unable to leave, it is senseless to ask them to remain.

In Romans 11:22, Paul says, "Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off."

In Galatians 5:4, Paul says, "You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace."

I can't say it more plainly that scripture itself. You can fall away. Do you deny it?
Yes. If you fell away you were never actually saved. True Christians never sin.

Romans 5:14 Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned.
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
3 John 11 He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
Quote:
Then your claim is that we must all individually assault Christ? The passage says that we must all take part of this so... Is this what you do?


Do you deny that your Jesus died for your sins?


Quote:
You, as a Christian, are "supposed" to have an understanding like the Apostles. You have no authority to reject part of Scripture. We as Christians have an enlightened view of the Parables, unlike Scribes and the Pharisees and those that still dwell in sin. We can understand. We are not told to deny them. You have no right to deny Holy Scripture.
We don't deny it. We simply understand it, unlike you. But anyway, do you agree that God often lies to sinners to confuse them so they won't be saved?



Quote:
2 Thessalonians 1:9 - "pay the penalty of eternal ruin, separated from the presence of the Lord"

And we seem to be at a direct contradiction.
I see this psalm as a figurative way of stating that God is always there. But surely you agree that God is not within wicked people? Why then would He be in a wicked place? Thessalonians agrees.


So you don't think God is omnipresent? Do you also deny His omniscience and omnipotency?



Quote:
This entire passage speaks of love and not of faith, which you must have as a child: "Unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" Mathew 18:3

This was only written to chastise the Corinthians for their pride of tongues as a sign of God's favor, a means of direct communication with Him. This in no way undermines the fact that we must "become as little children"

This teaches that we must not be easily swayed in our faith. And also in no way undermines that we must "become as little children".
These verses were all taken out of context.
I'm aware of what these verses mean. You are being CHILDISH in a bad way, instead of becoming like a little child in the good way.
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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-18-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
Yes. If you fell away you were never actually saved. True Christians never sin.

Romans 5:14 Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned.
1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
3 John 11 He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God. [/FONT]
Then you don't sin? Is that your claim?

Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"

These passages are there to motivate you to do better! You want abideth in God? Sinneth not. Etc.
It is not because you abide in Him that you do not sin (your personal interpretation, contradicting scripture)
It is because you do not sin that you abide in Him. (congruent with scripture)

Quote:
Do you deny that your Jesus died for your sins?
Wow. You really don't know what you're talking about.

Jesus tells everyone to eat His flesh and drink His blood. We cannot all individually crucify Christ. If this is really what he meant here, then what about the last supper? Do you not see a parallel? He tells them to eat his flesh, then at the last supper "take and eat, this is my body".

It's so simple! How can you deny it? Is it really that hard?

The Eucharist is foretold and prefigured.

Exodus 12:8, 46 - Paschal lamb had to be eaten
Exodus 16:15 - "This is the bread which the LORD has given you to eat" (manna)
Malachi 1:11 - "everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering"
John 6:32-60 - (The Bread of Life discourse - Jesus refers back to the manna of the Old Testament. He is talking about real food here)

Quote:
We don't deny it. We simply understand it, unlike you.
Allow me to quote one of your Landover Brothers/Sisters (My apologies, I can't tell from the picture)

"We don't believe the things Jesus said in parables."
-WWJDnow

Sounds to me like an outright rejection of what Jesus himself said.

Quote:
But anyway, do you agree that God often lies to sinners to confuse them so they won't be saved?
No. I believe He spoke in parables so that those who were not enlightened would not understand, such as the scribes and pharisees, however we, as Christians have an understanding of these parables.

Quote:

So you don't think God is omnipresent? Do you also deny His omniscience and omnipotency?
I believe that God is everywhere. Except Hell. Why? Because that is what Hell is!! It is a spiritual separation from God!
I just told you that...

Quote:
I'm aware of what these verses mean. You are being CHILDISH in a bad way, instead of becoming like a little child in the good way.
Opinion noted.


Matthew 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-18-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
You have already forsaken God's commandments and abused the Free Will that He bestowed upon us by choosing to worship the roman pope (aka whore of babylon).
The only things you ever have to say are opinions.

Why don't you step down and let Heathen Basher do his work?


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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-18-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic - Not Christian View Post
Do a little honest research. Please.
You mean like this photo of Mother Teresa with Baby Doc Duvalier's wife?



You really believe that God wanted one of His servants to validate the brutal Duvalier dictatorship? God is love, so no way did he support that monster. Ergo, Teresa wasn't God's servant.

Quote:
For we sin constantly.
Yes, you Catholics do sin constantly. I, however, haven't committed a sin since I was Saved.

Quote:
In the same way that we believe the Ten Commandments to not only apply to the Israelites, Catholics recognize this commandment as applying to everyone as well.
Of course the Ten Commandments don't apply just to the Israelites. God doesn't want people like Catholics making graven images of things in Heaven and genuflecting to them. He said that plain as day.

Quote:
Flesh and blood under the appearance of bread and wine. Just like the Last Supper.
I'm telling you, I've seen someone puke after the Eucharist, and it wasn't flesh or blood. It was bad wine and a stale cookie.


Quote:
Are you catching on now?
Yes, I am. Only evildoers eat human flesh. Thanks for that explanation.



Quote:
That is the ONLY thing it could of been. Unless however, you recognize that he was NOT in fact speaking metaphorically.
Why do people who are losing an argument start using ALL CAPS for emphasis? You must be MENTALLY DEFECTIVE. I'll pray for you.

Quote:
You need to understand that we are not Jewish, we are Catholic.
Thanks for letting us know. I wasn't sure.

Quote:
Pray in secret is all this verse commands. This forbids public displays of faith, for that is not the purpose or prayer. Prayer is between us and God, and no one needs to observe.
Finally, you hit upon a truth. We are not to pray in public. So, please explain this travesty:



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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-19-2009, 12:00 AM

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Originally Posted by WWJDnow View Post
You mean like this photo of Mother Teresa with Baby Doc Duvalier's wife?



You really believe that God wanted one of His servants to validate the brutal Duvalier dictatorship? God is love, so no way did he support that monster. Ergo, Teresa wasn't God's servant.


What is this picture supposed to prove? Maybe she was ministering to her? You don't know.

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{Opinions deleted by yours truly }
If your just going to get angry and tell me how "wrong" you think I am...

Go punch a pillow or something. I want scripture, history, facts. I don't care about your opinions.

Quote:
Finally, you hit upon a truth. We are not to pray in public. So, please explain this travesty:
Public displays of faith. Aka, advertising your religion by praying in public for the purpose of public viewing. This is not the intention of this video anymore than a cross on the side of the road is for the intention of converting. This is however, a minor issue. We have bigger things to discuss: Such as the Primacy of Peter, the Eucharist, and whether or not parables are valid scripture.


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Default Re: I am Catholic. - 09-19-2009, 01:01 AM

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Originally Posted by Catholic - Not Christian View Post
What is this picture supposed to prove? Maybe she was ministering to her? You don't know.
..an opinion of your own? Looks like "consorting with the enemy" to me or as you would put it, "Helping Satan with his works."

Quote:
Public displays of faith. Aka, advertising your religion by praying in public for the purpose of public viewing. This is not the intention of this video [...] This is however, a minor issue.
I call BS (and I don't mean Biblical Science) You selected the ground here and you lost the battle.

Quote:
We have bigger things to discuss: Such as the Primacy of Peter,
Already explained - it's not there.
Quote:
the Eucharist,
A straight forward lie on the part of rome. It is symbolic.
Quote:
and whether or not parables are valid scripture.
"The Holy Bible, KJV1611, was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy.





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