Focus on Family - Christian Parenting A place where parents can get good Godly advice on how to raise a family: how to properly administer corporal punishment, which movies to avoid, and more! |
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Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-30-2007, 04:18 PM
Definition of Terms:
Spank, v.
1. a. trans. To slap or smack (a person, esp. a child) with the open hand. Also absol.
Spanking, vbl. n.
The action of beating or slapping with the open hand by way of punishment. Also fig.
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Debate:
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the use of corporal punishment at home. Generally there are three separate views on this issue.
Those against spanking a child believe:
- that it can lead to aggression in the child, they also believe that it teaches children at young age that violence is the answer.
-They also point out that treating an adult the same way is illegal, and it is not any more moral to spank a child than it is an adult.
-They also view it as an ineffective punishment, as it is temporary.
-And they feel that it creates a lack of trust between child and parent
Those in favour Feel:
-parents have the right to raise children as they will
-feel that spanking is temporary and does not cause physiological harm, whereas a struggle for power between child and parent can.
-Point out there is no solid evidence linking corporal punishment with overly aggresive behaviour in children
-Feel the recent decrease in corporal punishment has lead to an increase of behaviour problems
Those in favour of a minimal use of spanking feel:
-Some believe it should only be used if the child does something particularly dangerous
-Children have different temperaments, and it is only effective for some children
-It is not abusive, but should only be used if all other forms of punishment are not as effective for the situation
-The form of punishment used should depend on the situation
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Points of Discussion:
-Is it an effective form of punishment?
-Which viewpoint provides the least debilitating and most effective results?
-If you are supportive of corporal punishment, at what age should its use be capped?
-Can corporal punishment cause long term psychological and physiological problems?
Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanking#Controversy
http://www.google.com/Top/Society/Issues/C...ral_Punishment/
Originally posted by: Terrabakachan
Edited by: Kaze
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-30-2007, 04:22 PM
And now for my personal opinion on the matter:
First, some statistics posted in a Times article in 2006: - 94% of 3- and 4-year-olds have been spanked at least once during the past year, according to one study.
- 74% of mothers believe spanking is acceptable for kids ages 1 to 3, says another study.
- 61% of parents condone spanking as a "regular form of punishment" for young children, according to a different study.
Clearly, the majority of parents say that they either spank, or have spanked their child. However, for decades many distinguished and noted experts have denounced the effectiveness of spanking, claiming it to be a hazardous practice. Ultimately ineffective as it only teaches the child to fear his parents and dangerous as it can lead to antisocial behavior later in life. So, with the experts nay-saying, why do parents still practice spanking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Callaghan: 142
Researchers who gather spanking statistics often lump together parents who may smack a well-padded bottom with an open hand once a year with those who regularly reach for a brush or belt strap as discipline, and they combine those who may spank their child because it's "good for them" with those who've done it because they lost their temper. The only definition experts and parents do seem to agree on is that spanking entails hitting of some kind, and that abuse is never acceptable.
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Such makes one wonder about the validity of such case studies if both moderates and extremists, in the respective practice, are both carelessly lumped together without any distinction between the two. Now, are these extremist, borderline-abusive methods going to create negative behavior in the child in the long run? Absolutely, yes, and this is why the two groupings of spanking methods should be kept clear of one another when presenting findings of case studies such as those presented above.
Were we to separate the two groupings, it is likely that we would find that a milder approach to spanking is not only effective, but also leads to virtually no negative psychological effects down the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Callaghan: 142
There are any number of reasons that a parent might advocate or abhor spanking, but most influential is her own childhood experience. Christina Togni of Manassas Park, Virginia, can still recall her mother's threat with a wooden spoon. "When my two older brothers and I would do something wrong and hear the kitchen drawer open, we'd immediately head for the hills." Now the mom of a 6-year-old and a newborn, Togni says that she uses spanking only "when absolutely necessary." But unlike her mom, she doesn't issue empty threats. "When I say I'm going to do it, I do it." Jennifer Johnson, a mother of three in Haymarket, Virginia, also remembers fearing "the wrath of the paddle," which she believes was a good thing. She says that she now spanks her kids "when the crime meets the punishment," and feels that there would be fewer unruly children if more parents spanked.
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Quote:
Along with lessons learned in childhood, many parents spank their kids for another simple reason: It stops children from doing whatever it is they're doing. "One day my son was acting up and was uncontrollable," says Togni. "He wouldn't listen or calm down, so I spanked him and told him to go to his room." The shock of the spanking coupled with time alone put an end to everyone's frustration, she says.
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Another point to consider is whether or not the parent follows through with a punishment after giving sufficient warning. For example, my child is acting up, I tell him to stop before I count to three else I will spank him. He acts like it's a game and continues doing this said action. Now, do I actually proceed with the aforementioned punishment, or do I walk over to him, pick him up, and take him to his room?
Many parents would choose the latter option simply out of frustration over their child's disobedience. However, one must be consistent in one's punishment. If I tell my child I will spank him on the count of three, then I will spank him on the count of three if he doesn't stop acting up. In this way, a child will learn that when a "threat" is issued, the parent will carry through with it. As this threat entails a small amount of pain, young children will learn to stop the offensive action immediately when the threat is issued. This not only keeps the parent from having to spank the child, but it also teaches the child not to do whatever is in question.
Quote:
Despite the fervor of anti-spanking experts, the scientific evidence that spanking does cause behavioral trouble later in life is thin. While spanking has been associated with a wide range of negative effects, such as increased aggression, decreased self-control, and adolescent depression, the studies can't prove that these effects were caused by spanking. For instance, it may be that aggressive kids with poor self-control get spanked more because their behavior makes their parents angrier. Or it might be that aggressive parents with poor self-control spank more and are also more likely to pass on to their kids genes linked to aggression and poor self-control.
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As this illustrates, the current argument against spanking is weak at best as behavioral problems in adolescence and early-adulthood can not be traced exclusively to spanking. Everyone has a "rebellious period" sometime in their teenage years, many teens experience angst and teenage depression as well. These factors could easily contribute to any antisocial behavior observed in case studies and might very well not have anything to do with the child being spanked nearly a decade ago. Such studies only prove that nothing was proved, say Diana Baumrind, Ph.D., of the University of California, Berkeley, and Robert Larzelere, at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, in Omaha, both of whom have been critical of the wide-ranging conclusions reached by many studies of physical punishment. Baumrind, in fact, has conducted research suggesting that "moderate" spanking has no effect on kids' well-being.
So in conclusion, those opposed to spanking have little solid evidence to go on. Spanking has been shown as an effective and succinct means of disciplining one's child and will not, if applied properly, damage your child's own psychological state or overall state of well-being.
Source Citation: O'Callaghan, Kitty. "Is It Okay to Spank? (Child Development; Is It Okay to Spank?)." Parenting 20.7 (August 2006): 142. Student Resource Center - Gold. Thomson Gale
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-30-2007, 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazoo
Source Citation: O'Callaghan,Kitty
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O'Callaghan? Friend, how do you expect us to take you seriously when your main source of reference is from an Irish mick? The Irish are basically third world in a cheap suit. How can they counsel me on the negative effects of occasionally slapping my babies faces?
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-30-2007, 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaner
O'Callaghan? Friend, how do you expect us to take you seriously when your main source of reference is from an Irish mick? The Irish are basically third world in a cheap suit. How can they counsel me on the negative effects of occasionally slapping my babies' faces?
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First, I don't particularly care if you take me seriously or not as long as you answer the opening question. Second, slapping your child's face is not pertinent to this discussion--I put up the definition of terms for a reason.
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-30-2007, 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazoo
Second, slapping your child's face is not pertinent to this discussion
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Then why the hell does the title say "Spare the Rod, Spoil the child?" Are we talking about beating the kids, the wife, homers...which is it? It's a different dynamic for each and I need a little more clarification before I can pertinently answer your pertinent questions from an informed pertinent perspective.
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-30-2007, 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaner
Then why the hell does the title say "Spare the Rod, Spoil the child?" Are we talking about beating the kids, the wife, homers...which is it? It's a different dynamic for each and I need a little more clarification before I can pertinently answer your pertinent questions from an informed pertinent perspective.
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Is "pertinent" the word of the day or something? Must have missed that memo...
I don't know, I just felt that it sounded a bit better than "Formally Discuss the benefits and Shortcomings of Spanking." Additionally, I would have thought that the topic body would have clarified the points to be discussed...
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-30-2007, 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazoo
Additionally, I would have thought that the topic body would have clarified the points to be discussed...
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Well, it's a little unclear so I'll ask again. Are we talking about the physical punishment of children only...or is this all inclusive? For example, what if you had a retarded adult relative living with you who kept licking the TV and chasing the cats? Can they be included in my response?
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-31-2007, 12:53 AM
Quote:
...(a person, esp. a child)...
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Quote:
...spanking a child believe...
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Quote:
...aggression in the child, they also believe that it teaches children at young age...
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Quote:
...lack of trust between child and parent...
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Quote:
...raise children as they will...
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Quote:
...struggle for power between child and parent...
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Quote:
...overly aggresive behaviour in children
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Quote:
Children have different temperaments...
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Children, parent-child relationships, etc.
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-31-2007, 01:22 AM
God says do it. End of story.
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. -- Proverbs 13:24
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. -- Proverbs 22:15
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. -- Proverbs 23:13-14
You obviously weren't beaten enough as a child. You equally obviously haven't bothered to read THIS thread, which deals quite throuoghly with the subject.
Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-31-2007, 02:03 AM
Would you please remind me why I came here, hoping to have an intellectual discussion on the matter? I really should know better by now...
However, no, I had not seen that thread prior to posting this.
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Putting the "stud" back in Bible Study
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
07-31-2007, 03:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazoo
Would you please remind me why I came here, hoping to have an intellectual discussion on the matter? I really should know better by now...
You were called here by Jesus. He wants your love, on bended knee. Assume the position and gain eternal life!
However, no, I had not seen that thread prior to posting this.
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Next time you take a notion to discuss a topic, try using the handy-dandy "search" function that Jesus provided.
Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)
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Unsaved Trash, limp-wristed nancyboy
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
01-27-2013, 06:25 AM
Spare the rod spoil the child is a load of BS
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
01-27-2013, 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Weiner
Spare the rod spoil the child is a load of BS
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Dear Godmocking Queer;
Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule of worshiping satan and sucking off anyone with a dollar to post this hateful message. The Holy Bible tells us that we are actually Blessed by your persecution! Thanks for proving that we're right.
Quote:
Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
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Enjoy hell. I know that Jesus and I can't wait to watch you burn in hell for all eternity. Oh, how we'll laugh at you as you scream in agony! Shout Glory!!
YIC,
--Pastor Ezekiel
Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)
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Unsaved Trash, limp-wristed nancyboy
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
01-27-2013, 06:31 AM
Well thank you sir I will save a place in Hell for you
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
01-27-2013, 06:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Weiner
Well thank you sir I will save a place in Hell for you
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Seriously? You dredged up a thread that hasn't been read in 5 years just to say that?
I'll bet your daddy doesn't beat you much.
Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:
Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
01-27-2013, 06:34 AM
2007? Seriously?
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Re: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child -
01-27-2013, 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Weiner
Spare the rod spoil the child is a load of BS
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You seem to have a real interest in corrupting our children and are bumping any thread you can on this subject. You're not the first man to come up with the idea of telling kids you won't beat them so they run away to spend time in the back of your van, you know. We can see what you are trying to do here. Are you a Catholic?
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