[Flatty10]

51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

what does this mean?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

I can tell you what it doesn't mean: It doesn't mean that your death cookies magically turn into Christ's actual flesh once your local papist rapist pops it into your mouth.


The Roman church is chock full of lies.

[Meek and Humble]

Also please note, that this is from John chapter 6, which took place several YEARS before the Last Supper. How could Jesus be telling people to literally eat His flesh, if the Last Supper had not even been instituted yet?

[landoverlover]

Originally Posted by Flatty10

51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

what does this mean?

Dear Flatstuff:

This question occupied the minds, and stomachs, of Jews ever since these Words came out of Jesus' mouth. The Jews consider this cannibalism and another reason to reject our Lord as savior.

The Catlicks, who will eat absolutely anything, agree with the Jews about the stuff being holy man-meat, but find His actual living flesh rather tasty and not an abomination at all. They limit their tastings to the Eucharist; there is no catlick cookbook with heart-healthy recipes etc. You can see why we here at Landover are sickened by the Papists acting like African heathen savages with little shrunken heads around their necks and such.

What God MEANT is - you may have to look this big word up - symbolic. Normally we find such a word used in connection with other apostasy-words like "context" but in this case we do not literally make a short-rib meal out of our Lord's actual body. Instead we use the oyster crackers and Mogen David 20/20 wine as substitutes to symbolize our complete ingestion of the Word (which was, as you know, "made flesh") with nary a burp or asking for seconds.

[Flatty10]

It doesn't sound like he is speaking symbolically though?

it seems like he is very serious.

Even the Jews questioned him and left because they believed him to be that serious. Then asking his disciples if they were going to leave to.

If it were symbolic surely the Jews would have been like...nah hes just being symbolic, he doesn't mean it literally.

Also he is refering how to receive the reward of eternal life, i mean he repeatedly says "unless you eat my body and drink my blood" "For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." Clearly emphasizing the point. If he just mean symbolically he's making it pretty confusing.

And why does Paul talking about discerning the Body? if you don't you will be eating and drinking judgement upon yourself. If it's just symbolic, why do we need to discern it?

this also draws real parallels between the Passover meal in Egypt, where they slay the lamb and eat the meat, smearing blood over their homes to be saved. And Jesus being the lamb of God sacrificed for our salvation. Surely this is not just symbolic?

[Samuel Coleridge]

Originally Posted by Flatty10

It doesn't sound like he is speaking symbolically though?

it seems like he is very serious.

Even the Jews questioned him and left because they believed him to be that serious. Then asking his disciples if they were going to leave to.

If it were symbolic surely the Jews would have been like...nah hes just being symbolic, he doesn't mean it literally.

Also he is refering how to receive the reward of eternal life, i mean he repeatedly says "unless you eat my body and drink my blood" "For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." Clearly emphasizing the point. If he just mean symbolically he's making it pretty confusing.

And why does Paul talking about discerning the Body? if you don't you will be eating and drinking judgement upon yourself. If it's just symbolic, why do we need to discern it?

this also draws real parallels between the Passover meal in Egypt, where they slay the lamb and eat the meat, smearing blood over their homes to be saved. And Jesus being the lamb of God sacrificed for our salvation. Surely this is not just symbolic?

Have you ever really considered it? You are drinking blood and eating flesh. Are you a vampire zombie? At least these fundie whack jobs don't go that far.

Tell me, papist. Does the wine taste like blood? Is it salty and thick or does it taste like wine? Does the bread taste like "long pork"?

How can you be literally eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus?

[Flatty10]

In the account in Matthew 26 he repeats...

26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

and then they go straight into the garden to pray. the VERY NEXT DAY Jesus is crucified.


yes i know it does sound crazy, but this is God we are talking about here. Who clearly says in the Scriptures "this is my body." Does this sound any more crazy than these miracles? Jesus raising from the Dead, Moses turning the river Nile into blood, Moses splitting the red sea. Noah and the flood, Abraham wife giving birth when Barren. Jesus miracle birth.

Is it possible that this could also be another miracle?

[Samuel Coleridge]

Originally Posted by Flatty10

In the account in Matthew 26 he repeats...

26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

and then they go straight into the garden to pray. the VERY NEXT DAY Jesus is crucified.

That means it is literal?

What of the story of Noah's Ark? Did one man literally take two of every animal on a boat and seven of every clean animal? Did a firey bush literally talk to Noah? Should we lie on our side for x number of days as Ezekiel said?

Did a man really live in the belly of a whale for a week?

Did the dead really rise and walk around for three days after Jesus died?

Originally Posted by Flatty10

yes i know it does sound crazy, but this is God we are talking about here. Who clearly says in the Scriptures "this is my body." Does this sound any more crazy than these miracles? Jesus raising from the Dead, Moses turning the river Nile into blood, Moses splitting the red sea. Noah and the flood, Abraham wife giving birth when Barren. Jesus miracle birth.

Is it possible that this could also be another miracle?

Wow! It must be a series of miracles. Too bad there aren't so many miracles these days.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Do you have any idea how many Catlickers would be eating Jesus every Sunday? There wouldn't be any Jesus left. Hundreds of millions of people take a bite of Him all at the same time? Jesus would be all gone!

Do little pieces of Christ's flesh disappear from His bones when you eat your filthy wafer? Hasn't Christ already paid for your sins? Why does He need to suffer more?

If pieces of flesh don't disappear from His bones, then even if it has His DNA, it's not really His body, but a replica.

I shouldn't have to explain this. You are so stupid it is like you want me to hate you.

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Transubstantiation implies a continuing sacrifice, something that just isn't happening:

Hebrews 10:10-14 (emphasis added): By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

[Meek and Humble]

Originally Posted by Flatty10

It doesn't sound like he is speaking symbolically though?

it seems like he is very serious.

You need to read the rest of John then. I know Catholics aren't supposed to read the Bible, but I'll help you out.

John 8: 12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Now, is Jesus LITERALLY light? Or is He figuratively light?

John 10: 7Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Now, is Jesus LITERALLY a gate? Or is He figuratively a gate?

John 10: 11"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
14"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.


Now, is Jesus LITERALLY a shepherd? Or is he figuratively a shepherd?


John 14: 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Now, is Jesus LITERALLY a pathway? Or is he figuratively a pathway?

John 15: 1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.



Now, is Jesus LITERALLY a vine? Or is He figuratively a vine?

[Robert Jones]

Just an added note to this thread that I just posted in another thread regarding the original verses at question in the post. Catholics really like to quote John 6:51-58, but they seem to always forget John 6:63, yes within the same chapter.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth ; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

If Jesus was talking about His physical body, why does He say that the flesh profiteth nothing?

[Meek and Humble]

Originally Posted by Flatty10

Even the Jews questioned him and left because they believed him to be that serious. Then asking his disciples if they were going to leave to.

Hey, way to miss the whole point of the story! The only people who took Jesus' words literally were the idiotic Jews who rejected Him and left. Jesus' true disciples were not dumb enough to think He was being literal.

If it were symbolic surely the Jews would have been like...nah hes just being symbolic, he doesn't mean it literally.

Right, because the Jews always understood Jesus' words so well, right?

Also he is refering how to receive the reward of eternal life, i mean he repeatedly says "unless you eat my body and drink my blood" "For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." "He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." Clearly emphasizing the point. If he just mean symbolically he's making it pretty confusing.

What is really confusing would be Jesus telling them they needed to eat His flesh, long before He instituted the "Eucharist" as you claim. Now, since when was taking the Lord's Supper the manner of gaining eternal life? You quote John chapter 6, now why don't you read on a little ahead in that chapter?

John 6:63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.


What's this? The flesh counts for nothing! What gives life is the spirit, and Jesus' words are the spirit! What does this mean? It's not eating "flesh" that will save you, it's believing in Jesus. His earlier words were SYMBOLIC.



John 5: 24"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.


See, no requirement of having to literally eat flesh here.

[The Cantabrian]

I think the reason protestants misinterpret these verses is because they have failed to see the wood for the trees. What you should be focusing on is not the idea of cannibalism, but the actual presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist. You cannot say that Christ was being symbolic in this passage as St. Paul recognizes it as literal in 1 Corinthians 11:27.

But I think this whole debate goes to show why many protestants are wrong to insist that the Bible alone is sufficient and there is no need for interpretation. We are claiming that a passage should be read literally, you guys say it should be read symbolically. The very fact that we are having this debate shows that there is such a need, and who shall provide such interpretation if not centuries of oral tradition of the church??

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Originally Posted by Flatty10

In the account in Matthew 26 he repeats...

26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

and then they go straight into the garden to pray. the VERY NEXT DAY Jesus is crucified.


yes i know it does sound crazy, but this is God we are talking about here. Who clearly says in the Scriptures "this is my body." Does this sound any more crazy than these miracles? Jesus raising from the Dead, Moses turning the river Nile into blood, Moses splitting the red sea. Noah and the flood, Abraham wife giving birth when Barren. Jesus miracle birth.

Is it possible that this could also be another miracle?

Many miracles are recounted in the Bible. Why is it not recorded, "And the disciples looked upon the heel of the loaf with astonishment, seeing it become as the raw, bloody heel of Jesus."

Oh, because it was symbolic!

[Meek and Humble]

Originally Posted by The Cantabrian

I think the reason protestants misinterpret these verses is because they have failed to see the wood for the trees. What you should be focusing on is not the idea of cannibalism, but the actual presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist. You cannot say that Christ was being symbolic in this passage as St. Paul recognizes it as literal in 1 Corinthians 11:27.

But I think this whole debate goes to show why many protestants are wrong to insist that the Bible alone is sufficient and there is no need for interpretation. We are claiming that a passage should be read literally, you guys say it should be read symbolically. The very fact that we are having this debate shows that there is such a need, and who shall provide such interpretation if not centuries of oral tradition of the church??

Nonsense. Even in the times of Apostles there were already those spreading false doctrines, the Paul and the other epistles writers warn the true Christians against them. Jesus also says that those who will be saved will be a small number, so it's doubtful the world's largest church is the one telling the truth. Satan, after all, is the lord of the earth until Jesus' return. The Bible tells us that almost the entire world will be following a false Christ. The epistle writers tell us again and again the way to avoid false doctrines is to study the SCRIPTURES and see if their words match up.

Now, as for your silly claim about us not seeing "the woods for the trees." Why are you not seeing what Jesus plainly says because your church teaches you otherwise?

Matthew 4:4J esus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "

Matthew 15:26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

Matthew 16: 5When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." 7They discussed this among themselves and said, "It is because we didn't bring any bread."
8Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, "You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9Do you still not understand? Don't you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11How is it you don't understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees." 12Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.


John 6:35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. (I think we can agree Jesus is not speaking of literal hunger and thirst here?)


John 6:50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. (And Jesus isn't saying people who take communion will never literally die?)

[The Cantabrian]

Respectfully, I think you have missed the point. Sometimes Jesus referred to bread in a symbolic sense, but at other times he spoke in a literal sense. This is why it is so important to have oral tradition to give guidance on such matters.

[Meek and Humble]

Originally Posted by The Cantabrian

Respectfully, I think you have missed the point. Sometimes Jesus referred to bread in a symbolic sense, but at other times he spoke in a literal sense. This is why it is so important to have oral tradition to give guidance on such matters.

Well, my oral tradition contradicts yours. Now what do we do

[The Cantabrian]

Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher

Well, my oral tradition contradicts yours. Now what do we do

How about the one that has been around the longest. Like 2000 years?

[Sister Christina]

Originally Posted by The Cantabrian

How about the one that has been around the longest. Like 2000 years?

H.C. Andersen was quite a sinner but he did write one true story in his lifespan. Have you ever read the story: It's Quite True!

It's a story about how one little incident can turn into a world disaster by being brought on orally.

No need to rub it in further, right?