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Default 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-15-2009, 04:38 PM

1. The universe has such a flawless design that it necessitates a creator, and the Christian God is the only one who could have done that.

2. Every story in the Bible is backed up 100% by archeology, so the Bible was obviously inspired by the creator of the universe.

3. Every single prophecy in the Bible has come true. David accurately predicted Jesus would have his flesh torn by dogs, Micah accurately predicted the name of the place Jesus would be born when he stated the name of the clan he would come out of. Isaiah accurately predicted that Jesus would be born of the Virgin Mary when He said Immanuel would be born of a young woman. Jesus fulfills every prophecy in the Old Testament, because the New Testament says so, even parts of the Old Testament that don't sound to be prophecies at all.

4. The Bible has so many manuscripts, and all of them exactly the same, that you cannot doubt the reliability of the Scripture and must accept every word of it as true.

5. Belief in God is the only logical worldview.

6. It's better to play on the safe side and pretend God exists even if you don't really believe in Him, in case He does exist and will send you to hell for not believing.

7. Jesus was either lying, crazy, or really God. As the Bible says Jesus was not lying or crazy, He must have really been God.

8. The Bible says the Bible is true, therefore it is.

9. The Bible is UNIVERSALLY regarded as the "Good Book" (if you only count decent people).

10. Without God, people turn into immoral, cruel, sadistic monsters.

11. All morality comes from the Christian God as described in the Bible. Non-Christians are immoral.

12. Our personalities prove that God is real.

13. Jesus' resurrection is real because ancient legend tells us that the 12 Apostles were martyred for their faith. There is no other explanation for the story in the Bible except 1) it's completely true, or 2) it was an intentional hoax.

14. Jesus radically changed the world.

15. All intelligent people believe in the Christian God.

16. So many people believe in God, it is arrogant to suggest otherwise. (note: this does not apply to the God's of other religions)

17. Life must have an origin, and so that origin must be God, as described in the Bible.

18. The Second Law of Thermodynamics proves evolution is not so.

19. The Bible alone, of all the world's "holy" books (note: only the Bible is really Holy, the rest is inspired by Satan) contain such detailed prophecies of future events.

20. The Bible (interpreted as per historic Christian orthodoxy) cannot be challenged on any basis as the sole, final truth-standard (Galatians 1:8)

21. Is it absolutely true that "truth is not absolute" or only relatively true that "all things are relative?"

22. Unbelief in God is actually unwillingness to submit to Him.

23. Without God, people have no adequate sense of meaning and purpose, therefore God is real.

24. People who convert to Christianity have radically changed lives (but people who convert out of Christianity do not)

25. The Bible has no contradictions, and even the stuff that looks like contradictions can be explained if you look hard enough for a way to reconcile them.

26. Hundreds of scholarly books carefully document the veracity and reliability of the Bible. There is no scholarly evidence against the Bible.

27. The Bible has survived and even flourished in spite of centuries of worldwide attempts to destroy and ban its message. Obviously, the Bible is indestructible because God wrote it.

28. Ut is absurd to try to speak or even conceive of a non-existent 'God' when an existing God would, by definition, be greater.

29. Christianity is the ONLY religion whose leader is said to have risen from the dead (counting only current, popular religions)

30. How do you explain the empty tomb of Jesus in light of all the evidence that has now proven essentially irrefutable for twenty centuries?

31. Because the Bible says Jesus was real, that He was crucified and that there were guards posted at His tomb, it is certainly impossible that Jesus survived the crucifixion and escaped the tomb, and therefore the Resurrection is necessarily true.

32. The authorities would not have stolen Jesus' body, therefore the Resurrection is true.

33. If Jesus did not actually die and rise from the dead, how could He (in His condition) have circumvented all of the security measures in place at His tomb?

34. One verse in a letter of Paul says that 500 people saw Jesus. Obviously, they did, so God is real.

35. If all of Jesus' claims to be God were the result of His own self-delusion, why doesn't the Bible evidence lunacy in any other areas of His life?

36. If God is unchanging, wouldn't it be true that one who changes by suddenly “realizing” that he/she is “God” therefore isn't God?

37. People don't believe in God only because of their own personal problems.

38. The 35-40 men who wrote the Bible over a span of 1500 managed to write a unified message (as I said, the Bible never contradicts itself), therefore God inspired them.

39. The Declaration of Independence says, "all men are endowed by their Creator..." therefore God is real.

40. Science is just another (false) religion.

41. What do you make of all the anthropological studies indicating that even the most remote tribes show some sort of theological awareness?

42. Why subscribe to the incredible odds that the tilt and position of our planet relative to the sun are merely coincidental, considering how small the universe is? Isn't it much more likely the Bible is correct in saying the sun revolves around a flat earth?

43. If every effect has a cause, and if God Himself is the universe (i.e. is one with the universe, as some non-Christians suggest), what or who then caused the universe? Don't you realize that God must have created it?

44. It's impossible to argue against atheists because no matter how much logical evidence you show them, they will continue in their delusion of disbelieve.

45. All prayers (of good people) are answered, therefore God exists.

46. More people believe in Christianity than any other religion, so it must be true.

47. All (good) people are healed from diseases.

48. The Bible is 100% scientifically accurate.

49. As we see, all good Christians are prosperous, healthy, and happy (and vice versa). All bad heathens are poor, sick, and miserable (and vice versa). Clearly, God exists.

50. There has never been any claims of people from other religions having their prayers answered, so Christianity is the only right religion.
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-15-2009, 05:10 PM

While this is good, solid research, my friend, I would like to point out that your title is a bit of a turn-off. Whenever so-called Christians start spouting off about "proof" and "logic", I get a little antsy. It usually means they're about to start drumming off on some tangent about how "other faiths are just as valid" or some other pansy hogwash. Faith is a mystery and, as such, is rendered worthless when compared to facts. If we had "facts" about it, then wouldn't everyone accept it and go to Heaven? That would be disgusting and a travesty. So can the facts and stick to what we know to be true: that "gut feeling" that Jesus is out there.


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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-15-2009, 05:50 PM

Yes, right you are Doctor. Don't worry, I have no intention of saying every other faith is valid. All evidence points solely to Christianity being completely right.
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-15-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:
40. Science is just another (false) religion.
I think one cannot stress this enough.

You ask an atheist, “What exactly is gravity” and he hasn’t the faintest idea. Likewise, he will know nothing of the actual mechanism of photosynthesis, cannot tell you where and how fast an electron is travelling nor has he a cure for cancer.

Science is fatally flawed. Its adherents and their acolytes are satisfied with half-answers and half-truths. With God, man is fully equipped to meet the vicissitudes of this Vale of Tears and avoid the torments of Hell.





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Map of the Known World; Periodic Table of Elements; The History of Linguistics; The Errors of Wicca; Dolphins and Evolution; The History of Landover (The Apology); Landover and the Civil War; 2000 Racial Slurs.
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 12-26-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire View Post
I think one cannot stress this enough.

You ask an atheist, “What exactly is gravity” and he hasn’t the faintest idea. Likewise, he will know nothing of the actual mechanism of photosynthesis, cannot tell you where and how fast an electron is travelling nor has he a cure for cancer.

Science is fatally flawed. Its adherents and their acolytes are satisfied with half-answers and half-truths. With God, man is fully equipped to meet the vicissitudes of this Vale of Tears and avoid the torments of Hell.
Gravity: the force of attraction between all masses in the universe (objects to the ground)
Photosynthesis: The conversion of carbon dioxcide into organic compounds
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 12-26-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianAddams View Post
Gravity: the force of attraction between all masses in the universe (objects to the ground)
Photosynthesis: The conversion of carbon dioxcide into organic compounds
Yes, great. Where does this force of gravity come from? Why does it exist. What makes things move?

How does carbon dioxide get converted organic compounds. How is the plant able to do this?
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-15-2009, 06:20 PM

I am so disappointed with this post. Mostly because it is just boring beyond believe, but also because it is intollerably false. Where do you get this from HB? At the risk of being as boring as you, let me point out a few errors for you (only to help you, off course)...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
5. Belief in God is the only logical worldview.
That would be wonderful, but is hardly fact or truth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
6. It's better to play on the safe side and pretend God exists even if you don't really believe in Him, in case He does exist and will send you to hell for not believing.
Again, how is this proof. And how does believing THIS make you a true Christian? God knows your heart, you cannot genuine beliving to Him. If that is what YOU are doing, you are in for a rude awakening!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
14. Jesus radically changed the world.
How is this PROOF of anything??? Because you say so???


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
17. Life must have an origin, and so that origin must be God, as described in the Bible.
Heather Basher must have an origin, and so that origin must be Satan, as described in the Bible... It's been said, so it must be PROOF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
21. Is it absolutely true that "truth is not absolute" or only relatively true that "all things are relative?"
I like this one actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
37. People don't believe in God only because of their own personal problems.
Or background and unfortunate upbringing. Or because they don't feel like commiting. Or bacause they like spaghetti better... Again, I dare ask, where do you get your point from?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
40. Science is just another (false) religion.
PROOF? Seriously HB, I agree it is false, but if you are going to post PROOF points, proof it already!!!

I could rip every single one of your so called proof points, but I was bored just reading your post, so am just considering the other unfortunate people who might read this post!

HB - turn to Lucifer. I promise you when you truly find HIM you will not feel the need to post useless proofs to convince people who are beyond saving.

Beelzebub Bless you!
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-15-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by satan's False Word View Post
I am so disappointed with this post. Mostly because it is just boring beyond believe, but also because it is intollerably false. Where do you get this from HB? At the risk of being as boring as you, let me point out a few errors for you (only to help you, off course)...




That would be wonderful, but is hardly fact or truth!
Yes it is. http://www.summit.org/ They explain it quite thoroughly.


Quote:
Again, how is this proof. And how does believing THIS make you a true Christian? God knows your heart, you cannot genuine beliving to Him. If that is what YOU are doing, you are in for a rude awakening!
Haven't you heard of Pascal's wager? Are you saying the scores of Christians who have used this argument against atheists for centuries are all in for a "rude awakening"?

Quote:
How is this PROOF of anything??? Because you say so???
Do you know any other man who exerted so much influence? It is downright miraculous. http://www.christiananswers.net/jesus/home.html

Quote:
Heather Basher must have an origin, and so that origin must be Satan, as described in the Bible... It's been said, so it must be PROOF?
So are you saying God that everything doesn't need an origin? Are you saying that the Bible is false? http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/menu-life.html



Quote:
I like this one actually.
What's your point, witch?



Quote:
Or background and unfortunate upbringing. Or because they don't feel like commiting. Or bacause they like spaghetti better... Again, I dare ask, where do you get your point from?
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/hypocrisy.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/gospel/gospel2.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c008.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t023.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/god-pain.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/dict...nessofgod.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/godfair.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-gr...l-and-god.html



Quote:
PROOF? Seriously HB, I agree it is false, but if you are going to post PROOF points, proof it already!!!
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-ed...iencebias.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-ai...cientists.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/menu-life.html

Quote:
I could rip every single one of your so called proof points, but I was bored just reading your post, so am just considering the other unfortunate people who might read this post!
Translation: because I have the intellectual capacity of a 10 year old, my brain starts hurting if I have to read more than one simple sentence at a time.

Quote:
HB - turn to Lucifer. I promise you when you truly find HIM you will not feel the need to post useless proofs to convince people who are beyond saving.

Beelzebub Bless you!
No thank you. I only need Jesus.

Also, I find your idea that some people are "beyond saving" very troubling. How can you think such a thing? Have you no compassion in your heart?
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-16-2009, 08:40 AM

Sigh, really? Hi, you may not remember me, I used to post here for a bit a few months ago (I have been diligently studying my English, hope you note some improvement). In case you don't know, me and "Heathen_Basher" used to be engaged until I told him I had decided to become an atheist and he dumped me. Anyway, I was randomly browsing by here and found this discussion, and I realized it was VERY similar to an article I had read ages ago http://christiananswers.net/q-aiia/q...t=44+questions Can't make up your own material, dear? Anyway, it hardly matters cause it's all B.S., as I will now show you. Since that article is the original (and better written) I'll use it instead of the tripe here.

Quote:
How do you explain the high degree of design and order in the universe?
Maybe because are brains tend to see patterns where none exist? How do you explain all the randomness and chaos in the universe?

Quote:
How do you account for the vast archaeological documentation of Biblical stories, places, and people?
Oh, so some of the stuff mentioned in the Bible is historically accurate? So? Plenty of other ancient myths have some historical basis to them. However with those, scholars ALWAYS ignore the supernatural elements to get out the truth. Now how do you explain archaeological documentation that disproves the Bible, or lack of evidence for events mentioned in the Bible that should have left some?

Quote:
Since absolutely no Bible prophecy has ever failed (and there are hundreds), how can one realistically remain unconvinced that the Bible is of Divine origin?
Really? None has ever failed? Do you mean the ones that haven't happened but might still some day? I predict the sky will turn into jello. May not happen in a thousand years, but hey, it did not FAIL cause it might happen in a thousand more. Or maybe you meant some of those vaguely worded prophecies that you interpret to mean something that has happened while other people reading the same passages interpret to mean other things? Anyway, here's a list of Bible prophecies that have definitely failed: http://faithskeptic.50megs.com/prophecies.htm The most interesting one there is Jesus saying He will return within the lifetime of the people of the first century. Hmm, that didn't happen now, did it?

Quote:
Explain David's graphic portrayal of Jesus' death by crucifixion (Psalm 22) 1000 years previous to crucifixion being established as a form of capital punishment?
Really? First, this Psalm is not written as a prediction of something yet to come, it is a prayer of someone in distress. Second, the thing does not describe crucifixion! The word used as "they pierced" in English translations in the original said "like lions". In fact, the Psalm doesn't even say that the person in danger is ever even physically harmed! http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/pierce.html

Quote:
How could any mere human pinpoint the birth town of the Messiah seven full centuries before the fact, as did the prophet Micah?
The gospel of Matthew (2:5-6) claims that Jesus' birth in Bethlehem fulfills this prophecy. But this is unlikely since
  1. "Bethlehem Ephratah" in Micah 5:2 refers not to a town, but to a clan: the clan of Bethlehem, who was the son of Caleb's second wife, Ephrathah (1 Chr.2:18, 2:50-52, 4:4).
  2. The prophecy (if that is what it is) does not refer to the Messiah, but rather to a military leader, as can be seen from verse 5:6. This leader is supposed to defeat the Assyrians, which, of course, Jesus never did.
It should also be noted that Matthew altered the text of Micah 5:2 by saying: "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda" rather than "Bethlehem Ephratah" as is said in Micah 5:2. He did this, intentionally no doubt, to make the verse appear to refer to the town of Bethlehem rather than the family clan.

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Account for the odds (1 in 10 to the 157th power) that even just 48 (of 300) Old Testament prophecies were fulfilled in one person, i.e Jesus.
Yes, a bunch of random quotes from the Bible, a lot of which are not prophecies, which you assert were fulfilled by Jesus because the BIBLE SAYS THEY WERE, when in fact it is just as likely that the Biblical authors REWROTE Jesus' life in order for it to fit in with those "prophecies" (which they did, Matthew particularly is fond of misquoting the Old Testament to fit his purposes). What about all those Messianic prophecies Jesus clearly DIDN'T fulfill? There is a reason Jews don't believe in Him, you know...http://www.geocities.com/realjewsforjesus/MJFAQ.html

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How was it possible for the Old Testament prophet Isaiah to have predicted the virgin birth of Jesus (Isaiah 7:14) 700 years before it occurred?
The King James Version mistranslates the Hebrew word "almah", which means "young woman" as "virgin". (The Hebrew word, "bethulah", means "virgin".) In addition, the young woman referred to in this verse was living at the time of the prophecy. And Jesus, of course, was called Jesus -- and is not called Emmanuel in any verse in the New Testament.

[QUOTE]How can anyone doubt the reliability of Scripture considering the number and proximity to originals of its many copied manuscripts?[/QUOTE

So the reliability of the content of the texts = the veracity of the content? Anyway, those manuscripts weren't always that well-preserved http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textual...#New_Testament

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Are you able to live consistently with your present worldview?
Um, yes, I am. Are you able to live consistently with yours?

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Wouldn't it make better sense, even pragmatically, to live as though the God of the Bible does exist than as though He doesn't?
Pascal's wager has been refuted time and again. It's nonsense for several reasons: one can not simply will oneself to believe something, this wager can be equally applied to any and all gods (why don't you believe in Allah to stay on the safe side?), and why would God reward belief based on a bet? http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...ism/wager.html

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In what sense was Jesus a 'Good Man' if He was lying in His claim to be God?
Did I say Jesus was a "Good Man"? Perhaps you misunderstand people who say that, though. They probably mean the basic morals espoused in the New Testament are good, ignoring the divine claims. Anyway, it's totally possible that Jesus never claimed to be God and only the Bible authors record it as so.

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Do you think that Jesus was misguided in affirming the truthfulness of Scripture, i.e. John 10:35, Matthew 24, Luke 24:44?
Yes. Or whoever wrote those words were, at the very least. What's your point?

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If the Bible is not true, why is it so universally regarded as the 'Good Book'?
Universally regarded, except for the 2/3 of the world population who don't regard it as such?

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Are you aware that the Old Testament alone claims to be God's inspired word at least 2600 times?
So? The Book of Mormon makes similar claims...

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Did you know that the Bible has been the number one best-seller every year since the 1436 invention of the Gutenberg printing press?
And that proves what? The Da Vinci Code is a best-seller also.

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From whence comes humanity's universal moral sense?
From whence comes your idea that humanity has a universal moral sense? I know plenty of people whose morals I definitely do not share, and many cultures look at things completely differently.

Quote:
  1. If man is nothing but the random arrangement of molecules, what motivates you to care and to live honorably in the world?
Evolution has programed a desire to help our fellow man into us, as were are a tribal species.

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Explain how personality could have ever evolved from the impersonal, or how order could have ever resulted from chaos.
Didn't we go through this already in the first question? Explain how an all-powerful entity could have always existed before anything else and have created the rest of the universe.

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If Jesus' resurrection was genuined, why would twelve intelligent men (Jesus' disciples) have died for what they knew to be a lie?
How do you know that they died for their belief?

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How do you explain the fact that a single, relatively uneducated and virtually untraveled man, dead at age 33, radically changed lives and society to this day?
The same could be said about Buddha, and he's been dead even longer.

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Why have so many of history's greatest thinkers been believers? Have you ever wondered why thousands of intelligent scientists, living and dead, have been men and women of great faith?
And thousands of great minds have not been. And thousands of great minds have believed in other religions. What's your point?

Quote:
  1. Isn't it somewhat arrogant to suggest that countless churches and people (including men like Abraham Lincoln) are all radically in error in their view of the Bible?
Isn't it somewhat arrogant to suggest that countless Hindus are radically in error in their views?

Quote:
How do you account for the origin of life considering the irreducible complexity of its essential components?
How do you account for the origin of God?

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How can the Second Law of Thermodynamics be reconciled with progressive, naturalistic evolutionary theory?
Quite easily. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/thermo/probability.html

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Why does the Bible alone, of all of the world's 'holy' books, contain such detailed prophecies of future events?
Didn't we go through this already? Anyway, Muslims make the same claims about their Quran. http://www.gracewatcher.org/quranprophecies.html

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On what basis can the Bible (interpreted as per historic Christian orthodoxy) be challenged as a sole, final truth-standard (Galatians 1:8)?
Yes, the Bible says its perfect, so the Bible must be perfect

Quote:
Is it absolutely true that "truth is not absolute" or only relatively true that "all things are relative?"
Of course truth is absolute. Something is or isn't. What's your point?

Quote:
Is it possible that your unbelief in God is actually an unwillingness to submit to Him?
Is it possible your belief in God is actually an unwillingness to live in a world without that comforting notion?

Quote:
Does your present worldview provide you with an adequate sense of meaning and purpose?
Yes. Do you hold your present worldviews just because they provide you with a sense of purpose?

Quote:
How do you explain the radically changed lives of so many Christian believers down through history?
Again, how do you explain the radically changed lives of so many people of other faiths?

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Are you aware that every alleged Bible contradiction has been answered in an intelligible and credible manner?
No, I have not. But let's consider it like this. Star Trek is a very popular series spanning various television shows and movies and written by many different people throughout decades. Naturally, contradictions in the show's real universe have arisen. The geeks of the internet, thankfully, waste no time discussing these and making up plausible reconciliations to these errors. Of course, the writers did not have these big ideas in mind. They just made a mistake.

Any Bible error can be answered because ANY contradiction can be answered in the method Apologists use. They examine the text and make up things not in the text to explain it away. Funnily enough, many of these Apologists come up with DIFFERENT answers. Only one of these can be right, of course, which also brings up the fact that none of them are right. Consider I am writing a book and in one part I say I live in Florida and another part I say I live in California. Is that a mistake? Well, maybe I only live in California half the year, and the rest of the time I live in Florida. Maybe I moved between the time of these passages I mentioned. Maybe I meant I live in one of these places in spirit. This is the sort of reaching that brings about your credible answers.

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What do you say about the hundreds of scholarly books that carefully document the veracity and reliability of the Bible?
I say there are hundreds that document its falsity and unreliability.

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Why and how has the Bible survived and even flourished in spite of centuries of worldwide attempts to destroy and ban its message?
Let's be honest here - the only real danger was in those first 300 years or so. After that, Christianity became the state religion of the biggest Empire of the time, and then went on ban and destroy as much of its competition as it could. Yet so many other religions still survive..

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Why isn't it absurd to try to speak or even conceive of a non-existent 'God' when an existing God would, by definition, be greater?
The Ontological argument, eh? That's been refuted, too. The mere concept of what God is does not entail his existence: http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...tological.html

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Have you ever considered the fact that Christianity is the only religion whose leader is said to have risen from the dead?
Um, no, maybe because that isn't true?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-de...ebirth_deities
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_C...tive_mythology

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How do you explain the empty tomb of Jesus in light of all the evidence that has now proven essentially irrefutable for twenty centuries?
Uh huh. And what refutable proof do you have that there ever was an empty tomb in the first place?

Quote:
  1. If Jesus did not actually die and rise from the dead, how could He (in His condition) have circumvented all of the security measures in place at His tomb?
He couldn't, so that probably didn't happen. He probably also did rise from the dead either.

Quote:
If the authorities stole Jesus' body, why? Why would they have perpetrated the very scenario that they most wanted to prevent?
See above.

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If Jesus merely resuscitated in the tomb, how did He deal with the Roman guard posted just outside its entrance?
See above.

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How can one realistically discount the testimony of over 500 witnesses to a living Jesus following His crucifixion (see 1 Corinthians 15:6)?
The problem here is that we DON'T have over 500 testimonies. We have the testimony of ONE person, who was not even present at this alleged event. Interestingly, the Gospels, the book of Acts, and all the other epistles fail to mention this huge event.

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If all of Jesus' claims to be God were the result of His own self-delusion, why didn't He evidence lunacy in any other areas of His life?
How do we know He didn't? Because the Bible says so?

Quote:
If God is unchanging, wouldn't it be true that one who changes by suddenly “realizing” that he/she is “God” therefore isn't God?
Yes. What's your point?

Quote:
Is your unbelief in a perfect God possibly the result of a bad experience with an imperfect Church or a misunderstanding of the facts, and therefore an unfair rejection of God Himself?
No. Is your belief in God possibly the result of influence of your upbringing, or some stressful time in your life when you were looking for comfort?

Quote:
How did 35-40 men, spanning 1500 years and living on three separate continents, ever manage to author one unified message, i.e. the Bible?
Unified message? Tell that to the 30,000+ Christian denominations. But anyway, here's an interesting quote: "We find collected in this book [The Bible] the superstitious beliefs of the ancient inhabitants of Palestine, with indistinct echoes of Indian and Persian fables, mistaken imitation of Egyptian theories and customs, historical chronicles as dry as they are unreliable and miscellaneous poems, amatory, human and Jewish-national, which is rarely distinguished by beauties of the highest order but frequently by superfluity of expression, coarseness, bad taste, and genuine Oriental sensuality." Be honest, the Bible is a great big mish-mash of books, which often contradict each other. Consider that Christians cannot even agree whether or not they should pay attention to the Old Testament.

Quote:
  1. Would you charge the Declaration of Independence with error in affirming that "all men are endowed by their Creator..."?
If we view it as a metaphor, what's the problem? Would you charge an constitution with error if it said, "This government will treat its citizens with certain inalienable rights..." ?

Quote:
Because life origins are not observable, verifiable, or falsifiable, how does historical 'science' amount to anything more than just another faith system?
Nobody has faith in these things. We believe them until we find the next best hypothesis. We are always open to be proven wrong. Christians merely have failed to do so.

Quote:
What do you make of all the anthropological studies indicating that even the most remote tribes show some sort of theological awareness?
I would say that is not true. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people

Quote:
Why subscribe to the incredible odds that the tilt and position of our planet relative to the sun are merely coincidental?
If you consider the sheer vastness of the universe, it becomes easier to believe that somewhere one planet might achieve those odds.



Now, why did God create all those barren empty planets?

Quote:
If every effect has a cause, and if God Himself is the universe (i.e. is one with the universe, as some non-Christians suggest), what or who then caused the universe?
This again? What caused God?!

Quote:
  1. What would be required to persuade you to become a believer?



What would be required for you to stop believing?

Now then, why don't you all visit this website and see a better list of proofs: www.godisimaginary.com

Last edited by Meek and Humble; 04-24-2012 at 01:36 AM.
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-16-2009, 08:46 AM

Wow.

"tl;dr" simply does not describe my emotions. That had to be a record for the world's longest post on the internet, seriously.



Watch the #1 Televangelist Gospel Hour in the World! "Turn or Burn: Accept Christ or Go to Hell with Rev. Jim Osborne." Check your local cable listings.

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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-16-2009, 11:48 AM

Don't you have some borscht to make or something little lady? No one read that communistic diatribe, I promise.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-24-2009, 12:43 PM

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 12-26-2009, 02:41 PM

#15 though, there are some intelligent people that do not believe in God. Charles Darwin was actually christian until his daughter died and he lost faith.
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 12-26-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianAddams View Post
#15 though, there are some intelligent people that do not believe in God. Charles Darwin was actually christian until his daughter died and he lost faith.
No there aren't. Charles Darwin was hardly intelligent, he actually believed in the theory of evolution!
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 12-27-2009, 04:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher View Post
No there aren't. Charles Darwin was hardly intelligent, he actually believed in the theory of evolution!
Because it's been proven.
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-24-2009, 12:58 PM

I honestly find it hard to believe the opening post is actually a serious post, but since you guys seem to have an attention span of a mongoloid, i'll just tear apart only a couple of these 'proofs':


45. All prayers (of good people) are answered, therefore God exists.


OK, do this for me, pray for God to cure cancer and for the world to be in total peace by tomorrow - oh wait! millions of people already do and guess what?

Oh yeah it didn't do anything.

46. More people believe in Christianity than any other religion, so it must be true.


Funnily enough you should say this, because Islam is going to overtake Christianity in amount of believers by the end of this century (or even earlier - http://www.religioustolerance.org/growth_isl_chr.htm )

Does that mean you are going to convert? But anyway, you believe not all of Christianity is "right", just the baptist church, would you say there are more baptists in the world or Hindus for example? By this logic (and i use this term very loosely) you have proved your own religion wrong, great work there!


I did laugh however when Bogdana Alkeav's argument completely tore yours to shreds, but you just ignored it, due to the fact you can't come up with a coherent, logical argument. (although normally that doesn't stop you)
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 10-24-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GODISSQUAREROOTOF-1 View Post

45. All prayers (of good people) are answered, therefore God exists.


OK, do this for me, pray for God to cure cancer and for the world to be in total peace by tomorrow - oh wait! millions of people already do and guess what?

Oh yeah it didn't do anything!
Why would True Christians (the only ones who truly worship God, and therefore the only ones whose prayers reach Him) pray for cancer to be cured? Everyone knows it is His righteous punishment upon sinners who deserve it. I personally pray for more cancer, because there are some heathens who might learn a lesson from being riddled with tumors. Perhaps that will make them seek the Lord before they die horrible, painful deaths brought upon them by their own wicked ways.

Oh, praise be to God in His wisdom!!
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 03-04-2010, 05:37 PM

"40. Science is just another (false) religion."
You previously said:
"18. The Second Law of Thermodynamics proves evolution is not so."
(this statement is wrong) but why should it matter if science is false?
"48. The Bible is 100% scientifically accurate."
Again... why should it matter? And again, a false statement.
Those (and in fact all) of your "proofs" don't prove anything, your just stating things that the Bible says, without ever establishing that the Bible is true.
At least not in any good reasonable way.
So that means...
"15. All intelligent people believe in the Christian God."
goes for people that are not that intellectual.

Here's one proof that God does not exist, and by the standards of reasoning, it is more powerful then all your statements together...

"Omnipotence is impossible due to paradoxes

Another way to disprove the almighty god is that omnipotence leads to paradoxes. Can god make a rock that is too heavy for him to carry? Can god build a wall that even he can't tear down?

Also, if god knows everything, he knows what he will do in the "future" (in any dimension, not necessary the time dimension). He must have known that from the very start of his own existence. Thus god's actions are predestined. God is tied by faith, he has no free will. If god has no free will god is not omnipotent. Another way to put it is that to be able to make plans and decisions one must act over time. If god stands above time he can not do that and has no free will. Indeed, if god stands above all dimensions god is dimensionless - a singularity, nothing, void!

Besides there can exist no free wills at all if god is almighty. If you had a free will, god wouldn't know what you would do tomorrow and wouldn't be omnipotent." - http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/no_god.htm
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 03-24-2010, 02:31 AM

1. The universe has such a flawless design that it necessitates a creator, and the Christian God is the only one who could have done that.
Uh, no. In an infinite universe of infinite possibilities, it had to happen somewhere. Regardless, even if it WAS created, any other god could have done it. Horus, Shiva, et cetera. Your god is no better than any other of the authentic fabrications of man's superstition.

2. Every story in the Bible is backed up 100% by archeology, so the Bible was obviously inspired by the creator of the universe.
Not true. Humans have existed for millions of years. Oral histories and exaggerated myths made by MAN are what the bible is. Sure, it may be "inspired," but I can write a novel "inspired" by aliens made of fruit, and that doesn't make it true.

3. Every single prophecy in the Bible has come true. David accurately predicted Jesus would have his flesh torn by dogs, Micah accurately predicted the name of the place Jesus would be born when he stated the name of the clan he would come out of. Isaiah accurately predicted that Jesus would be born of the Virgin Mary when He said Immanuel would be born of a young woman. Jesus fulfills every prophecy in the Old Testament, because the New Testament says so, even parts of the Old Testament that don't sound to be prophecies at all.
Were you THERE to see them come true? Using the bible as proof of ANYTHING is a logical fallacy, called an Appeal to Authority. Justbecause so-and-so says something happened doesn't make it a fact. Aside from that, the bible was written AFTER any of those prophecies happened. It could have been falsified.

4. The Bible has so many manuscripts, and all of them exactly the same, that you cannot doubt the reliability of the Scripture and must accept every word of it as true.
The world has so many religions, and all of them are exactly the same.
So they had copies of the bible. Big piffleing deal.

5. Belief in God is the only logical worldview.
Not if you have a brainstem and an IQ over 103. We actually have the evidence to support evolution.
Also, "Belief in God is the only logical worldview" is an opinion, not a fact, and is therefore not proof of anything. Prove me wrong.

6. It's better to play on the safe side and pretend God exists even if you don't really believe in Him, in case He does exist and will send you to hell for not believing.
At the same time you'd be wasting your life at church doing things you don't even understand all because you have blind faith in a sacred text you haven't even read cover to cover. Why not remove yourself from your inhibitions, and actually live life the way YOU want to, and not how some real deity tells you to?

7. Jesus was either lying, crazy, or really God. As the Bible says Jesus was not lying or crazy, He must have really been God.
The bible also says that you should kill people who have premarital sex, don't follow christianity, or who happen to be homosexuals. That's 95% of the world.

8. The Bible says the Bible is true, therefore it is.
If you think a statement like THAT is true, then I say I'm a magical wizard who had a canteloupe for a feet. It MUST be true. I just said it was.
Retards.

9. The Bible is UNIVERSALLY regarded as the "Good Book" (if you only count decent people).
I'm sure the Iraqis will tell you the same thing about the Koran.

10. Without God, people turn into immoral, cruel, sadistic monsters.
Not true. Atheists do good things daily not because they feel like they'll be punished, but because they feel it's right. Your Holocausts and Spanish Inquisitions and Crusades moot this entire point. As far as the world in its entirety is concerned, YOU are the immoral piffleers.

11. All morality comes from the Christian God as described in the Bible. Non-Christians are immoral.
No, morality comes from a sense of what is right and wrong. God has nothing to do with it.

12. Our personalities prove that God is real.
How? Our personalities are based on psychology. We are shaped from birth and become the people we are through our upbringing. Our personalities don't show us god. Therefore they are not proof.

13. Jesus' resurrection is real because ancient legend tells us that the 12 Apostles were martyred for their faith. There is no other explanation for the story in the Bible except 1) it's completely true, or 2) it was an intentional hoax.
It was an intentional hoax.
Look up the stories of the Egyptian god Horus and the Hindu god Mithra. They were born on December 25th, were executed and were resurrected.
Those stories predate Christianity. Me: 13 You: 0

14. Jesus radically changed the world.
Well no shit, but that's doesn't make god real.

15. All intelligent people believe in the Christian God.
You might need to look up the word "intelligent."
I'll even give you solid evidence as to why you're a bunch of idiots.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ve-in-God.html

16. So many people believe in God, it is arrogant to suggest otherwise. (note: this does not apply to the God's of other religions)
Just because there are more people believing something doesn't make it more true. It just means more people shouldn't be breeding and adding their stupidity to the gene pool.

17. Life must have an origin, and so that origin must be God, as described in the Bible.
lrn2chemistry
we've CREATED the building blocks of life in LABORATORIES.

18. The Second Law of Thermodynamics proves evolution is not so.
"Heat generally cannot flow spontaneously from a material at lower temperature to a material at higher temperature."
This doesn't disprove evolution. It COULD disprove the Big Bang, but science has already ruled that out.

19. The Bible alone, of all the world's "holy" books (note: only the Bible is really Holy, the rest is inspired by Satan) contain such detailed prophecies of future events.
No, all the sacred texts do.
From the Koran on 9/11:
For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a
fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands
of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more
rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there
was peace.

I think that's pretty damn accurate.

20. The Bible (interpreted as per historic Christian orthodoxy) cannot be challenged on any basis as the sole, final truth-standard (Galatians 1:8)
Yes it can. Here I am, challenging it. Pix or it didn't happen.

21. Is it absolutely true that "truth is not absolute" or only relatively true that "all things are relative?"
What the piffle does that have to do with god?

22. Unbelief in God is actually unwillingness to submit to Him.
I tried. I really did. But my intelligence, logic, and reasoning skills got the better of me.

23. Without God, people have no adequate sense of meaning and purpose, therefore God is real.
I will decide my purpose. Not god.

24. People who convert to Christianity have radically changed lives (but people who convert out of Christianity do not)
Sure they do. I was a godfearing man once. So uptight and unwilling to stretch my comfort zones. But then I realized that christianity is a cult. And I'm now free of it. Regardless, the phrase "People who convert to Christianity have radically changed lives" is not proof of anything. It is yet another opinion.

25. The Bible has no contradictions, and even the stuff that looks like contradictions can be explained if you look hard enough for a way to reconcile them.
No, they can be explained if you decide on the conclusion FIRST, then look for scraps of evidence to support only your conclusion, and throw out the rest of the evidence.

26. Hundreds of scholarly books carefully document the veracity and reliability of the Bible. There is no scholarly evidence against the Bible.
Name one.

27. The Bible has survived and even flourished in spite of centuries of worldwide attempts to destroy and ban its message. Obviously, the Bible is indestructible because God wrote it.
No, it's indestructible because idiots like you cling to it and throw a bitchfit whenever anyone disagrees with you. Hitler was a Christian.

28. Ut is absurd to try to speak or even conceive of a non-existent 'God' when an existing God would, by definition, be greater.
that "existing" god would have to exist and you would have to prove it. your god is non-existent, therefore he is inferior to the truth.

29. Christianity is the ONLY religion whose leader is said to have risen from the dead (counting only current, popular religions)
oh, counting only "current, polular religions," hm? Because the Egyptians and the Hindus predate Christianity by hundreds of years.The most "current" religion is Scientology, and before that, the Latter Day Saints. Being current has nothing to do with it, and neither does being popular, you pretentious piffle.

30. How do you explain the empty tomb of Jesus in light of all the evidencethat has now proven essentially irrefutable for twenty centuries?
I say someone either stole his bleeding corpse and buried it elsewhere, or it never happened and your bible lied again.

31. Because the Bible says Jesus was real, that He was crucified and that there were guards posted at His tomb, it is certainly impossible that Jesus survived the crucifixion and escaped the tomb, and therefore the Resurrection is necessarily true.
You're a dumbass. You're using that Appeal to Authority again.

32. The authorities would not have stolen Jesus' body, therefore the Resurrection is true.
Who said the "authorities" would have done it? Any bloke could have piffleing done it.

33. If Jesus did not actually die and rise from the dead, how could He (in His condition) have circumvented all of the security measures in place at His tomb?
He didn't. He died and is still dead.

34. One verse in a letter of Paul says that 500 people saw Jesus. Obviously, they did, so God is real.
Oh, so I suppose you were THERE? And you SAW this happen? Somehow I doubt that.

35. If all of Jesus' claims to be God were the result of His own self-delusion, why doesn't the Bible evidence lunacy in any other areas of His life?
You mean like in that one portion of the Apographa where Jesus killed a little boy by pushing him off a roof? Oh, hell, no. He's not insane AT ALL.

36. If God is unchanging, wouldn't it be true that one who changes by suddenly “realizing” that he/she is “God” therefore isn't God?
No. Nothing changes because god doesn't exist. Again, cite your sources and give me some evidence.

37. People don't believe in God only because of their own personal problems.
Not proof of god's existence.
People only believe in god because they can't change their comforting worldview and need a mental crutch to remain sane. They can't handle the fact that there is no afterlife and there is no higher power.

38. The 35-40 men who wrote the Bible over a span of 1500 managed to write a unified message (as I said, the Bible never contradicts itself), therefore God inspired them.
Are you kidding me? THe bible contradicts itself SO MANY TIMES, it's hilariously retarded.
"EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen."

"JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."


I just gave you two. There are SO MANY more, though. Give it a look.
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...adictions.html


39. The Declaration of Independence says, "all men are endowed by their Creator..." therefore God is real.
Or by their parents, who had consensual sex in the missionary position for the sole purpose of procreation and reproduction.

40. Science is just another (false) religion.
If it's false, then why is it all proven to be true? Riddle me THAT. YOu're on your Computer, aren't you? Yeah, science gave you that. You drive your car, you talk on your cell phone, you help your twelve-year-old make a volcano out of baking soda and vinegar for school... all of that is because of science. And it is actually here.

41. What do you make of all the anthropological studies indicating that even the most remote tribes show some sort of theological awareness?
They didn't. They didn't understand the world they lived in, so they made shit up. That's how religions start.

42. Why subscribe to the incredible odds that the tilt and position of our planet relative to the sun are merely coincidental, considering how small the universe is? Isn't it much more likely the Bible is correct in saying the sun revolves around a flat earth?
The Hubble Telescope. You've heard of that, right? and all those countless other telescopes we've put into space? We can SEE the earth for what it is. A sphere. We've been on the moon. we've visited mars. you're a retard if you think the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth.
Also, how can the sun revolve AROUND the earth if the earth is FLAT, you arrogant piece of shit?

43. If every effect has a cause, and if God Himself is the universe (i.e. is one with the universe, as some non-Christians suggest), what or who then caused the universe? Don't you realize that God must have created it?
Who cares?

44. It's impossible to argue against atheists because no matter how much logical evidence you show them, they will continue in their delusion of disbelieve.
I have seen no logic in this whole thing. You base your facts on a bible, which insists upon itself. Logical fallacies and raped altar boys everywhere.

45. All prayers (of good people) are answered, therefore God exists.
Name one. And give evidence.

46. More people believe in Christianity than any other religion, so it must be true.
I've already disproved this point.
Mass =/= truth.

47. All (good) people are healed from diseases.
No they're not. Give me proof.

48. The Bible is 100% scientifically accurate.
No, it's not. Give me your evidence.
I'll give you some of mine.
Lightning, diseases, floods, earthquakes, spots on a leopard, the shape of the earth...
we know what all of this is. Back when the bible was written, they did not understand any of this. So they attributed it to god.

49. As we see, all good Christians are prosperous, healthy, and happy (and vice versa). All bad heathens are poor, sick, and miserable (and vice versa). Clearly, God exists.
Not true. My father is a Christian, and he cheated on three wives and almost committed suicide.

50. There has never been any claims of people from other religions having their prayers answered, so Christianity is the only right religion.
None of your prayers have been answered, either. GO ahead, pray for god to smite me. It won't happen. Also, banning doesn't count as smiting.

I just proved all o you wrong. Good day.
inb4 ban
inb4 butthurt christian idiots
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Default Re: 50 Proofs that God Exists - 03-24-2010, 02:35 AM

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