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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 02:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
Jesus was anti-racism, and so am I. He also wasn't white (he was Middle Eastern)


Hello Miss Agnes.


For a person who claims to be agnostic, and therefore a person without knowledge whether a deity or multiple deities exist*, you seem to be putting a lot of faith into the existence of Jesus as a person.


May I ask what is your evidence to support your claim? I mean, as a rationally thinking agnostic you wouldn't just believe that someone existed without any proof whatsoever, right?


Right?..

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
I forgive most things. Also, you're confusing egalitarianism with feminism, as egalitarianism calls for equal rights regardless of gender, whereas feminism enforces the notion that us women are superior,


You are confusing some fringe feminism with just regular feminism.


Quote:
and I know some humans who don't even deserve to be called dogs, and I also think that Jesus did many wonderful things.



We don't even know if He was ever born, how can we know if He did anything good or bad?


Quote:
Also, not many people know this, but one of the things I want to do before I leave the mortal realm is to go and visit this particular place in Africa (cannot remember what country it's actually in) where the Garden of Eden is said to actually exist, and also this particular temple in Japan (cannot remember the name of it) where Jesus was said to have visited (as it is said that he visited many countries during his lifetime), plus many other places that are mentioned/referenced in the Bible. If that's not enough, I also want to learn Aramaic (the language that Jesus was said to have spoken), and if I ever revisit the US again (which I hope I do, because it's a beautiful country regardless of who is in power), I want to visit that giant Noah's Ark museum.



Why visit only places related to Christian religion?


Why not expand your worldview just a little bit and accept a possibility that maybe Christianity got it wrong - regardless of the question whether any superior being exists or not, as between agnostics, we find this dispute to be rather useless.


I mean, among all gods of all religions, Christian God really comes out as a very mean, cruel, vindictive, and pretty much heartless dick - are you sure you want to spend money visiting sites related to this specific religion?!


And before I get an infraction for calling Christian God a heartless dick, let me just tell you, that this conclusion has been reached based 1) on reading of the Holy Bible, which is the sole evidence of the Christian God, and which portrays Him in this negative light; and 2) the history of Christianity in all of its shades which is a grim story of bloodshed and oppression, all in the name of God. If He exists, why doesn't He interfere when people commit genocides in His Name?


There are three possible answers: 1) He doesn't exist, 2) He's powerless, so don't waste your time praying to Him, or 3) He actually enjoys all that cruelty committed in His name - which makes Him, you guessed it, a heartless dick.






______________
* a = not; gnosis = knowledge => agnostic = not knowing/without knowledge/lacking knowledge. Etymology source.


John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 06:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
Actually, my opinion is relevant. Also, I don't say who is good or evil, but I do know that those who commit evil acts in the name of their particular religion are nothing but hypocrites regardless of what they say.

Hello Agnes,


No, you do not get to say who is good and who is evil, God does.


Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].


God creates evil, so He is the only one who can say with certainty who committed evil.


YIC
TT


Isaiah 66:15

For behold, the Lord wil come with fire, and with his charets like a whirlewinde, to render his anger with furie, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 01:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Mister Brasil View Post
And that's part of where you're going wrong.

You're using a special, limited definition of that word that's come into popularity on the internet due to people rushing from the stigma of the word "feminist." Don't get me wrong-- feminism is a terrible thing-- but sexual egalitarianism is like trading Beelzebub for Moloch.

I was using the word in the more general sense (which would be worthwhile to learn). From Miriam-Webster:

Egalitarianism in that sense includes opposition to racism. And Jesus Christ is not opposed to racism-- indeed, He models racism, to show us the proper way to be racist to foreigners.

So many plans! Put only one thing on your bucket list: read God's word and subject yourself to His word.

You mention being an "agnostic theist." What god teaches you to live true to yourself??? Your god(s?) sounds like some comic-book superhero-- powerful, maybe, creative, maybe, but by what basis do you call him god and not peer? There is only one true God and He demands no such thing.
Agnostic Theism is the belief that deities exist but there needs to be proof. It strays from the traditional stance aka. one believes in a specific deity and that's it, as we believe that all have an equal chance of existing. Do I believe in Jesus? Yes, I do. Do I also believe in Allah? Yes, I do. Do I also believe in the great spirit? Yes, I do. Do I believe that there is only one true deity? No, I don't.

What many people do not know is that you can actually be religious and agnostic, as you can get people who call themselves Christian Agnostics, and Neil Gaiman identifies as Jewish Agnostic.

I also believe in the possibility that there might be no deities, and that everything we think we know about religion could be completely wrong. I also believe in conspiracy theories, and I believe in aliens too. Not just that, but I've figured out something in relation to judgement day, as there will be a day when Earth will burn, but it's not for many years. It will rain lava etc, and the only way anybody will be able to survive that is to leave the solar system and find other planets to call home.
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 03:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
Agnostic Theism is the belief that deities exist but there needs to be proof.
I'll bait.

What do you consider proof for your belief that deities exist?

Quote:
It strays from the traditional stance aka. one believes in a specific deity and that's it, as we believe that all have an equal chance of existing. Do I believe in Jesus? Yes, I do. Do I also believe in Allah? Yes, I do. Do I also believe in the great spirit? Yes, I do. Do I believe that there is only one true deity? No, I don't.
Thank you for providing a very nice example for the definition of a theist. Just a regular theist, there's nothing agnostic about it.

How about religions which include multiple gods, such as religions of the pagan Europe or Catholicism?

Quote:
What many people do not know is that you can actually be religious and agnostic, as you can get people who call themselves Christian Agnostics, and Neil Gaiman identifies as Jewish Agnostic.
You can slap pretty terms on it, dear, but it still just boils down to people who are weak in their faith, but are too cowardly to abandon their faith altogether and choose rationality instead. God teaches us that we cannot have our cake and eat it, too; you have to choose, either faith or rationality.

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

They will burn in Hell for their lack of faith.

Quote:
I also believe in the possibility that there might be no deities,
Oh, so when you are doubting you are going all the way to atheist, huh? God hates you for it:

Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Quote:
and that everything we think we know about religion could be completely wrong.
If you mean, that religion was invented by elites to keep commoners' mouths shut, or that it was created to cement societies, or that it fulfills a psychological need of an individual - all that and more has been discussed for the past 100 years by academics. And yes, you're right - all they say about religion is completely wrong. There's only one True Religion and everybody else is going to Hell.

Quote:
I also believe in conspiracy theories, and I believe in aliens too.
Oh, so you just have this deep need to have someone in the sky watch over you, and it doesn't really matter if that's a deity or an alien?

That's a bit creepy. Is it caused by some trauma which you suffered in your childhood?

Quote:
Not just that, but I've figured out something in relation to judgement day, as there will be a day when Earth will burn, but it's not for many years. It will rain lava etc, and the only way anybody will be able to survive that is to leave the solar system and find other planets to call home.
Don't worry, dear. The True Day of Judgement will come long before the hypothetical day when the Sun swells and eats inner planets. And there's no spaceship which can save souls from eternal torment in Hell!
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 04:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolores de Barriga View Post

Hello Miss Agnes.


For a person who claims to be agnostic, and therefore a person without knowledge whether a deity or multiple deities exist*, you seem to be putting a lot of faith into the existence of Jesus as a person.


May I ask what is your evidence to support your claim? I mean, as a rationally thinking agnostic you wouldn't just believe that someone existed without any proof whatsoever, right?


Right?..



You are confusing some fringe feminism with just regular feminism.





We don't even know if He was ever born, how can we know if He did anything good or bad?





Why visit only places related to Christian religion?


Why not expand your worldview just a little bit and accept a possibility that maybe Christianity got it wrong - regardless of the question whether any superior being exists or not, as between agnostics, we find this dispute to be rather useless.


I mean, among all gods of all religions, Christian God really comes out as a very mean, cruel, vindictive, and pretty much heartless dick - are you sure you want to spend money visiting sites related to this specific religion?!


And before I get an infraction for calling Christian God a heartless dick, let me just tell you, that this conclusion has been reached based 1) on reading of the Holy Bible, which is the sole evidence of the Christian God, and which portrays Him in this negative light; and 2) the history of Christianity in all of its shades which is a grim story of bloodshed and oppression, all in the name of God. If He exists, why doesn't He interfere when people commit genocides in His Name?


There are three possible answers: 1) He doesn't exist, 2) He's powerless, so don't waste your time praying to Him, or 3) He actually enjoys all that cruelty committed in His name - which makes Him, you guessed it, a heartless dick.






______________
* a = not; gnosis = knowledge => agnostic = not knowing/without knowledge/lacking knowledge. Etymology source.
I do want to visit other places, and I want to revisit a synagogue that I haven't been to for at least 15 years. Also, it was proven that a guy called Jesus did actually exist, although it's not known whether or not he did any of the stuff that's mentioned in the bible.
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 05:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnesaliencat;1214448[...
Also, it was proven that a guy called Jesus did actually exist, although it's not known whether or not he did any of the stuff that's mentioned in the bible.
Hi Agnes,


That is a very true statement. I have been told to find Jesus many times but that is hard. I almost thought I found Him once. It was at a gas station, well, behind it actually, where I found a man with a name tag saying ¨Jesus¨.

As I have been allowed to be here for quite a while, noticing where the senior pastors go to find those most in need it all became clear. This was my chance to find Jesus. I looked straight into His eyes. At this point ¨Jesus¨ seemed somewhat uncomfortable but I persisted and asked Him if he would fill me with His Huge love. Then he ran.

This proves that not everyone who calls himself Jesus is indeed the guy doing the stuff that's mentioned in the Bible.

Kind regards,

Roland


Jeremiah 6:21 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will lay stumblingblocks before this people, and the fathers and the sons together shall fall upon them; the neighbour and his friend shall perish.

Best wishes for the people in Ukraine.
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
I do want to visit other places,
Yet they are not on your list.


For comparison, here is my list:

1. The Olduvai Gorge. This is where oldest tools have been made - this is where people became people. Yes, I know about the Lemekwian stuff, but I'm waiting for more confirmation before I change that destination.
2. Gobekli Tepe. The oldest temple architecture in the world.
3. Mesopotamia. The place of origin of Western civilization in general, and Judeo-Christian religion specifically. Especially Uruk, the oldest city in the world.
4. Caral. The oldest city in the New World. This is where the Andean civilizations began.
5. Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro. This is where the Indian civilization started.
6. Any of the sites of the Longshan culture. This is where the Chinese civilization started.
7. San Lorenzo, La Venta, and other Olmec sites. This is where the Mesoamerican civilization started.
8. Poverty Point, Luisiana. It can be argued that this is where the Moundbuilder culture started. Obviously, I'd want to see Cahokia, Illinois, in the same trip.
9. Bluefish Caves, Alaska. This site has evidence of one of the earliest, if not the earliest, human occupation of the New World.


See the difference? I am interested in the places important to many civilizations. Many religions. I'm not fixated on a single religion, because I don't think that a single religion or civilization is better than the others.

And I certainly do not wish to be tracing steps of someone who probably did not exist in the first place.

Quote:
and I want to revisit a synagogue that I haven't been to for at least 15 years. Also, it was proven that a guy called Jesus did actually exist,
When? By whom? How?


I seem to have missed that headline.



I also want to apologize to everybody for calling God a heartless dick. I should not have said that. He certainly seems like a sociopath, but it is, after all, His world, and He has the right to despise and torture us as He pleases. We are here for His entertainment, not the other way around. Therefore, I cannot judge Him, and certainly should not insult Him. I suppose my eternal punishment just got a little bit worse.


John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 06:31 PM

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Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
Do I believe in Jesus? Yes, I do. Do I also believe in Allah? Yes, I do. Do I also believe in the great spirit? Yes, I do. Do I believe that there is only one true deity? No, I don't.
What's confusing to me here is what you mean by "god." It's one thing to believe that there is some entity more powerful than yourself, or some entity more wise than yourself. It's an entirely different thing to believe that there is an entity to which one should submit one's will.

Here, when I talk about God, I don't just mean that He created the world or me-- I mean, my parents created me too, right? That doesn't make them God. I don't just mean that He is all-powerful and all-knowing and good (and if He says that He is the only God and is incorrect, then one of those things is untrue).

I certainly don't mean that He's only kind of smart or kind of powerful, one entity among many, because there are a lot of people that are kind of smart or kind of powerful, and that doesn't make them gods.

What I mean when I talk about God is that I should submit my will to His. If He says to be racist or sexist, then it doesn't matter what I think. Else I'm akin to Milton's Lucifer: "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven," denying the very Godhood of God. Do you see that that is the essential quality to theism? Agnostic or otherwise?

But I'll let you explain exactly what you mean when you say that you believe in gods.
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 07:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Mister Brasil View Post
What's confusing to me here is what you mean by "god." It's one thing to believe that there is some entity more powerful than yourself, or some entity more wise than yourself. It's an entirely different thing to believe that there is an entity to which one should submit one's will.

Here, when I talk about God, I don't just mean that He created the world or me-- I mean, my parents created me too, right? That doesn't make them God. I don't just mean that He is all-powerful and all-knowing and good (and if He says that He is the only God and is incorrect, then one of those things is untrue).

I certainly don't mean that He's only kind of smart or kind of powerful, one entity among many, because there are a lot of people that are kind of smart or kind of powerful, and that doesn't make them gods.

What I mean when I talk about God is that I should submit my will to His. If He says to be racist or sexist, then it doesn't matter what I think. Else I'm akin to Milton's Lucifer: "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven," denying the very Godhood of God. Do you see that that is the essential quality to theism? Agnostic or otherwise?

But I'll let you explain exactly what you mean when you say that you believe in gods.
I just believe in the possibility that deities could exist. Also, what you think of as essential to theism is actually NOT essential. There's also pantheism, polytheism, etc, and even antitheism (which is the disbelief and distrust of religion). I also believe that people who attack others simply for following a different set of beliefs don't even deserve to be called human (they should be tied up, taken into space, and thrown into the sun).
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 07:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Basilissa View Post
I'll bait.

What do you consider proof for your belief that deities exist?

Thank you for providing a very nice example for the definition of a theist. Just a regular theist, there's nothing agnostic about it.

How about religions which include multiple gods, such as religions of the pagan Europe or Catholicism?

You can slap pretty terms on it, dear, but it still just boils down to people who are weak in their faith, but are too cowardly to abandon their faith altogether and choose rationality instead. God teaches us that we cannot have our cake and eat it, too; you have to choose, either faith or rationality.

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

They will burn in Hell for their lack of faith.

Oh, so when you are doubting you are going all the way to atheist, huh? God hates you for it:

Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

If you mean, that religion was invented by elites to keep commoners' mouths shut, or that it was created to cement societies, or that it fulfills a psychological need of an individual - all that and more has been discussed for the past 100 years by academics. And yes, you're right - all they say about religion is completely wrong. There's only one True Religion and everybody else is going to Hell.

Oh, so you just have this deep need to have someone in the sky watch over you, and it doesn't really matter if that's a deity or an alien?

That's a bit creepy. Is it caused by some trauma which you suffered in your childhood?

Don't worry, dear. The True Day of Judgement will come long before the hypothetical day when the Sun swells and eats inner planets. And there's no spaceship which can save souls from eternal torment in Hell!
It wasn't lol, as I became a fan of science fiction as a child. You also don't know that last bit, as we'll have likely either died or fled Earth before then anyway. Our sun will eventually become a nebula, and I can recall seeing a UFO but that was before I even knew what space was.
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 08:13 PM

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Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
I just believe in the possibility that deities could exist. Also, what you think of as essential to theism is actually NOT essential. There's also pantheism, polytheism, etc, and even antitheism (which is the disbelief and distrust of religion).
Okay, let's skip most of that for right now. I still want to know what you mean by "deity." What makes a deity? What is the difference between a deity and a parent, a president, a Progenitor Species, a superhero? Or are all of those things deities too?

Quote:
I also believe that people who attack others simply for following a different set of beliefs don't even deserve to be called human (they should be tied up, taken into space, and thrown into the sun).
I think what you're saying is that you believe in tolerance. But you don't tolerate me, because Christ doesn't tolerate Islam. Guess what: Islam doesn't tolerate Christianity right back. So which one of us gets thrown into the sun, in your opinion? Christianity or Islam? Or you?

Last edited by Mister Brasil; 06-05-2017 at 08:14 PM. Reason: misspelling
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 09:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Mister Brasil View Post
Okay, let's skip most of that for right now. I still want to know what you mean by "deity." What makes a deity? What is the difference between a deity and a parent, a president, a Progenitor Species, a superhero? Or are all of those things deities too?

I think what you're saying is that you believe in tolerance. But you don't tolerate me, because Christ doesn't tolerate Islam. Guess what: Islam doesn't tolerate Christianity right back. So which one of us gets thrown into the sun, in your opinion? Christianity or Islam? Or you?
Those who kill in the name of their religion get thrown into the sun, and that's regardless of religion.
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 09:49 PM

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Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
Those who kill in the name of their religion get thrown into the sun, and that's regardless of religion.
Sounds like you want to kill them in the name of yours.


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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-05-2017, 10:18 PM

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Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
Those who kill in the name of their religion get thrown into the sun, and that's regardless of religion.
Islamicismists that kill always make up something about self-defense. Maybe they're defending themselves from somebody with an army, maybe they're defending themselves from somebody who made a movie with a woman's bare neck. And everything in between. It's almost enough to make me appreciate Quakers. Lol jk.

But I'm glad you don't want to throw me into the sun. I don't kill anyone, because God tells me to obey secular laws. All I do is try to change the laws to allow me to discriminate against them. Killing can come later. I'm not optimistic, I mean, they'll probably all be dead by that time anyways.

But Agnes! You're still ignoring the really important question! What do you even mean when you're talking about "deities"? It's cool if you need some time to think about it (assuming you don't die in the meantime, which is always a possibility, please find Jesus ASAP.) But hopefully, you're thinking about it?
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-06-2017, 12:43 AM

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Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
I also believe that people who attack others simply for following a different set of beliefs don't even deserve to be called human (they should be tied up, taken into space, and thrown into the sun).
Then please either stop attacking us, or jump into the sun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
Our sun will eventually become a nebula,
I thought the official story line was that our sun was supposed to end up as a white dwarf? Oh well, who could expect scientists to keep up with their own crap.

Quote:
and I can recall seeing a UFO but that was before I even knew what space was.
So you probably did not know what things are usually seen in the sky and interpreted something perfectly normal as an unidentified flying object.

It's really interesting, but out of all people who see UFO's, there are no astronomers who ever see one. You know, people who look up the sky for a living and actually know something about the phenomena that can be seen? I have been meteor chasing and star-gazing (well, mostly Messier objects-gazing) since I was 13 or so, and more recently I've been dabbling in astrophotography as well, and I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary yet, either.

Speaking of which, there will be a total solar eclipse in August! Now, that is an extraordinary event that every human should see more than once in their lives!
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Default Re: Manchester BOMBING - sickening - 06-06-2017, 03:58 PM

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Originally Posted by agnesaliencat View Post
Those who kill in the name of their religion get thrown into the sun, and that's regardless of religion.
By who? Who's throwing people into the sun, and why doesn't Landover Baptist Church do this? Can you imagine how quickly we could get Pastor's Jet funded if lackadaisical tithers were given a more thorough... intensive to keep up with their tithing schedules than losing their seats in the auditorium and having to listen to pastor's sermons on the giant screen in the secondary auditorium? I mean, Starbucks is pretty pleb and all, but I could think of worse things. Like watching Mr. Etheldreda catapulted off into the sun! I think this might work out fantastically!


Hello, my name is Mary. I hope to fellowship with you! That is, unless you don't listen to church authority (Deuteronomy 17:12); are a witch (Exodus 22:17); are a homosexual (Leviticus 20:13; Romans 1:24-32); or fortuneteller (Leviticus 20:27) or a snotty kid who hits their dad (Exodus 21:15); or curses their parents (Proverbs 20:20; Leviticus 20:9); an adulterer (Leviticus 20:10); a non-Christian (Exodus 22:19; Deuteronomy 13:7-12; Deuteronomy 17:2-5;Romans 1:24-32); an atheist (2 Chronicles 15:12-13); or false prophet (Zechariah 13:3); from the town of one who worships another, false god (Deuteronomy 13:13-19); were a non-virgin bride (Deuteronomy 22:20-21); or blasphemer (Leviticus 24:10-16), as God calls for your execution and will no doubt send you to Hell, and I have no interest developing a friendship with the Spiritually Walking Dead.

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