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  #21  
Old 04-14-2011, 04:44 PM
epignosis epignosis is offline
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zechariah Smyth View Post
Not here, friend. While I've disagreed with you on a couple of points over the last couple of days, I do agree with your "whole Bible" approach.



Yours in Christ,

Z. Smyth
That's good to hear, I have talked to ones that even have had their, faith eroded to the point that they question if God did really create all that we see around us.
My goal here is not to debate but really just to use the scriptures, and for all to get a better understanding . I may bring up some things you never had though about before. And the same from you.


2 Timothy 3 (King James Version)

2 Timothy 3

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
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  #22  
Old 07-05-2011, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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Originally Posted by Samuel Coleridge View Post
That seems rather mean when taken into context. Jesus doesn't even want the people he is preaching to understand his meaning.

That's not the portrait of the loving Christ I have always had in my mind.
And there's your problem.

You're hung up on what's in your mind instead of what's in the Bible. If you hadn't been corrupted by your wishy washy interpretationist thinking you'd know that your God is a jealous God. You'd know that your God didn't muck about sending Jesus to die for you just so you could shilly shally about allegory this and non-literall that to wriggle out of doing His will.

Quote:
Mark 6:11, 12 11And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
Jesus said it how it was. God doesn't mess around and all your wishy washy stuff can't hide that. No parable, just straight talking.
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Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

John 5:46,47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

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  #23  
Old 02-12-2012, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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Originally Posted by Jeb Thurmond View Post
So now we have to take a philosophy class to understand what "thou shalt not steal" means? You intellectual elitists reall have a fine racket set up for yourselves.
Thou shalt not steal is pretty clear. So is thou shalt not kill.

But, as it happens, Jesus killed*, and for very little reason. So, perhaps they are not quite as literal as they seem.

* - Gospel of Thomas
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2012, 04:34 AM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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Originally Posted by cabrin View Post
But, as it happens, Jesus killed*, and for very little reason. So, perhaps they are not quite as literal as they seem.

* - Gospel of Thomas
Not the Gospel of Thomas. The Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which people take even less seriously than the aforementioned GOT.
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  #25  
Old 03-14-2012, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

I've always been quite fond of the simplicity in the Ten Commandments. While I can understand other parts of the Bible needing some slight intepretation, the ten commandments are pretty solid in what they mean.
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  #26  
Old 03-14-2012, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenAppleMe View Post
I've always been quite fond of the simplicity in the Ten Commandments. While I can understand other parts of the Bible needing some slight intepretation, the ten commandments are pretty solid in what they mean.
The Bible (KJV 1611) does not need to be interpreted: it is the perfect word of God!

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  #27  
Old 03-14-2012, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenAppleMe View Post
I've always been quite fond of the simplicity in the Ten Commandments. While I can understand other parts of the Bible needing some slight intepretation, the ten commandments are pretty solid in what they mean.
Yep. We never get idiots trying to interpret "Thou shalt not kill" to mean thou shalt not kill anyone at all even if God tells you to.
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Isaiah 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.

John 5:46,47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

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  #28  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

The soteriology of the New Testament presupposes a literal Adam and compares and contrasts him with a literal Christ:

Romans 5:18-19: Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If Adam can be an allegory in that passage, why can't Christ? In other words, if you deny a literal Adam, how do you not ultimately deny Christianity?
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  #29  
Old 04-03-2013, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

There is something i have always been wondering about. But, before i get to that i wish to say i do not mean any disrespect whatsoever towards God or any of the men and women on this forum.

Now, for my question. I always hear and see Christian people saying that God created the world as it is to this very day and that Charles Darwin with his evolution theory is wrong. But, my question is what if God created the world but was not fully satisfied at first and decided to change small things untill it was perfect,something evolution does in a sense as well. Again, i do not mean any disrespect but i wanted to know the opinion of the religious side as well.
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  #30  
Old 04-03-2013, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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Originally Posted by Christiaan View Post
But, my question is what if God created the world but was not fully satisfied at first and decided to change small things untill it was perfect,something evolution does in a sense as well. Again, i do not mean any disrespect but i wanted to know the opinion of the religious side as well.
Impossible. God knew in advance what He would create. How could He be "not satisfied" if He knew what he would do before He did it?

Isaiah 46:9-10 " Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

Now, if you really are a Christian and are not here just to mock God, kindly introduce yourself here. Tell us what Church you attend, your most favorite Holy Bible verse and all about your personal relationship with Jesus.

In Christ
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  #31  
Old 04-03-2013, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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Originally Posted by Christiaan View Post
Now, for my question. I always hear and see Christian people saying that God created the world as it is to this very day and that Charles Darwin with his evolution theory is wrong. But, my question is what if God created the world but was not fully satisfied at first and decided to change small things untill it was perfect,something evolution does in a sense as well. Again, i do not mean any disrespect but i wanted to know the opinion of the religious side as well.
Such a god would be terribly incompetent, not at all like our all-knowing, all powerful God. The Bible says God was very pleased with His creation (Gen 1:31) until Adam and Eve ate the fruit (Gen 3) and He had to create weeds and thorns and turn some herbivorous animals into carnivores. The Bible leaves no room for evolution. God created everything to reproduce after its own kind.

Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
Gen 1:21-22 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Please make sure you start a thread in the introduction forum and tell us what church you go to, what your favorite Bible verse is and how you came to find Jesus.
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Jesus in the Old Testament; Babies ARE evil – just as the Bible says!; Casting Lots: How to Discern God’s Will; How to defend your faith and destroy atheism in one hit; Ancient stone tablet confirms Noah’s Flood
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  #32  
Old 04-03-2013, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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Originally Posted by Christiaan View Post
...what if God created the world but was not fully satisfied at first...
Like if most of humanity had decided that He wasn't worth worshipping, and had gone off and just done their own thing? I suppose He could have decided to drown everyone (and all the animals and most of the birds and insects) in a giant flood (except for one guy whom He warned of His plan for Earth v2.0 who then spent 100 years building a huge-ass boat to carry him and seven other people and two of every kind of animal in the world [unless they were "clean", then it was seven of each], and his family, and all the supplies they'd need to feed and care for all of these animals while they bobbed around for almost a year, with one tiny little window waaaay up at the top, no other ventilation, can you just imagine the stench), and reading about this plan it becomes obvious that all those evil fish and other things that swim in lakes, rivers, streams and oceans (they're evil because they don't have fins and scales) aren't taken in consideration as if the Bronze Age cavedwellers that wrote down this stuff couldn't come up with a plan to kill everything that lived in the ocean at the same time as everything that lived on land while still allowing one family to survive with enough animals and things to account for the obvious biodiversity that plainly existed so they just went with the "flood" plan and anyone naysayers could be dealt with in the usual expedient manner (i.e. torture them until they accept the truth or kill them if they won't), but anyways I'm getting a bit sidetracked here and forgot to mention that God sent the rainbow as a sign of His promise to never do that sort of thing again, at least until the end times as described in Revelation but that's more of a fire and brimstone burn everything instead of water, water, everywhere.

Hope this helps.
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  #33  
Old 04-03-2013, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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There is something i have always been wondering about. But, before i get to that i wish to say i do not mean any disrespect whatsoever towards God or any of the men and women on this forum.
Thank you, dear! It's nice to see a polite and mannerly visitor! I do hope you stick around.

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Now, for my question. I always hear and see Christian people saying that God created the world as it is to this very day and that Charles Darwin with his evolution theory is wrong. But, my question is what if God created the world but was not fully satisfied at first and decided to change small things untill it was perfect,something evolution does in a sense as well. Again, i do not mean any disrespect but i wanted to know the opinion of the religious side as well.
Well, that might be an interesting fantasy, but in order for that to be given any serious thought, one would have to suspend their logic and accept the story of evolution in the first place. It has no more intellectual integrity than denying the existence of Jesus. Evolution was developed for the express purpose of giving rebellious man an excuse to disbelieve in God so he would feel no guilt for sinful behavior. Darwin was simply the most popular story teller. Really, it would be as silly to speculate evolution can fit into the history of Creation as trying to fit in the Boshongo (a Bantu Tribe) creation myth: In the beginning there was only darkness, water, and the great god Bumba. One day Bumba, in pain from a stomach ache, vomited up the sun. The sun dried up some of the water, leaving land. Still in pain, Bumba vomited up the moon, the stars, and then some animals: the leopard, the crocodile, the turtle, and, finally, some men, one of whom, Yoko Lima was white like Bumba.

Now, as interesting a tale as this might sound, do you really think it's likely? Now do you see how silly it would be to assume evolution is likely? So why even speculate as to how it might fit in what we know to be True?

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Old 04-04-2013, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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Originally Posted by Didymus Much View Post
Like if most of humanity had decided that He wasn't worth worshipping, and had gone off and just done their own thing? I suppose He could have decided to drown everyone (and all the animals and most of the birds and insects) in a giant flood (except for one guy whom He warned of His plan for Earth v2.0 who then spent 100 years building a huge-ass boat to carry him and seven other people and two of every kind of animal in the world [unless they were "clean", then it was seven of each], and his family, and all the supplies they'd need to feed and care for all of these animals while they bobbed around for almost a year, with one tiny little window waaaay up at the top, no other ventilation, can you just imagine the stench), and reading about this plan it becomes obvious that all those evil fish and other things that swim in lakes, rivers, streams and oceans (they're evil because they don't have fins and scales) aren't taken in consideration as if the Bronze Age cavedwellers that wrote down this stuff couldn't come up with a plan to kill everything that lived in the ocean at the same time as everything that lived on land while still allowing one family to survive with enough animals and things to account for the obvious biodiversity that plainly existed so they just went with the "flood" plan and anyone naysayers could be dealt with in the usual expedient manner (i.e. torture them until they accept the truth or kill them if they won't), but anyways I'm getting a bit sidetracked here and forgot to mention that God sent the rainbow as a sign of His promise to never do that sort of thing again, at least until the end times as described in Revelation but that's more of a fire and brimstone burn everything instead of water, water, everywhere.

Hope this helps.
...I got lost trying to see where this sentence ended
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  #35  
Old 04-04-2013, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

Thank you all. It was very enlightening to learn the opinions of others. Now, i had a second question. I do ask to look at it with an openmind. But like always i do not mean any disrespect to anyone. Now, According to science the universe is created billions of years ago. According to Christianity,the bible and of course most importantly The Lord the universe and most important our world was created around sixthousand years ago. Now, would it be possible that the world was indeed created billions of years ago like science claims but that it was in a state of chaos and that God came to our world,looked upon the chaos and decided it could not go on like this,wiping the planet clean and made it into what it is today? It is just something i wonder about. And before anyone asks. No, i am not a Christian like you all are. Nor am i an Atheist. I am just not sure what i believe in. I respect christianity and i respect all of you for who you are and what you believe in. but i myself am not completely sure yet. Which is part of the reason i am on here. I wish to discover more and i wish to learn more about the concept that is The Lord
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  #36  
Old 04-04-2013, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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Now, would it be possible that the world was indeed created billions of years ago like science claims but that it was in a state of chaos and that God came to our world,looked upon the chaos and decided it could not go on like this,wiping the planet clean and made it into what it is today? It is just something i wonder about.
No. That would not be possible. That would mean God said one thing and meant another, and that's not possible. God means what He says, and says what He means. Otherwise, how would people know what parts of the Bible to believe?

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And before anyone asks. No, i am not a Christian like you all are. Nor am i an Atheist. I am just not sure what i believe in. I respect christianity and i respect all of you for who you are and what you believe in. but i myself am not completely sure yet. Which is part of the reason i am on here. I wish to discover more and i wish to learn more about the concept that is The Lord
I'm sorry your parents didn't love you enough to teach you about Jesus Christ and the sacrifice He made for you. It's not too late, though, no matter what terrible things you might have done. Jesus died temporarily to pay your debt to His Father who requires a blood sacrifice for sins. You don't have to let that sacrifice go to waste. You can claim it, and then God won't see your many sins. He'll only see Jesus, whom He loves because He's perfect and that's why He never offends God. You can read more about God's need for blood sacrifice in the Bible. Read Leviticus chapter 17, and then Hebrews chapter 9. Actually, you should be reading the whole Bible if you want to know God and Jesus and how you can be Saved.
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  #37  
Old 04-04-2013, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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No. That would not be possible. That would mean God said one thing and meant another, and that's not possible. God means what He says, and says what He means. Otherwise, how would people know what parts of the Bible to believe?



I'm sorry your parents didn't love you enough to teach you about Jesus Christ and the sacrifice He made for you. It's not too late, though, no matter what terrible things you might have done. Jesus died temporarily to pay your debt to His Father who requires a blood sacrifice for sins. You don't have to let that sacrifice go to waste. You can claim it, and then God won't see your many sins. He'll only see Jesus, whom He loves because He's perfect and that's why He never offends God. You can read more about God's need for blood sacrifice in the Bible. Read Leviticus chapter 17, and then Hebrews chapter 9. Actually, you should be reading the whole Bible if you want to know God and Jesus and how you can be Saved.
I am sorry to disagree with part of it. The genesis story does not tell us how the planet itself was created. It tells us how light,darkness,land,seas and all life itself was created but nothing about the planet. For the sake of this discussion let's assume i am correct in this. I am not saying i am but let us assume i am correct for the sake of this discussion. If we would look at it this way it would tell us God found a world of chaos and wiped it clean. Then,using the empty rock that was left he would have made all that it is today.

Also, My parents are both great people who both raised me in a Christian way. My losing of faith is in no way the fault of my parents and i would prefer if you do not judge someone you do not even know. And before you come with arguments about that God judges us, He knows us and is therefore entitled to judge. You do not know me and therefor you do not have any right to judge about me or my parents. Thank you. This is also the last thing i will say about this. and the last thing i want to hear about this.
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Old 04-04-2013, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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I am sorry to disagree with part of it. The genesis story does not tell us how the planet itself was created. It tells us how light,darkness,land,seas and all life itself was created but nothing about the planet...
Really?

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

How did you miss that?
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  #39  
Old 04-04-2013, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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Really?

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

How did you miss that?

Really? It says that? hm, then i guess i must have read a bible in which it was removed... That's strange. But, i did not ask it for the sake of proving who is wrong and who is right. I was curious that if we would assume it was true, would it be a plausible thing.
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  #40  
Old 04-04-2013, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: Questions to ask liberal "Christians"

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No, i am not a Christian like you all are. Nor am i an Atheist. I am just not sure what i believe in.
But you don't believe in the God of the Bible, I take it. You live like an atheist, as if there's no God. How do you think the earth and everything else got here?
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