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  #201  
Old 03-22-2012, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Redeemed Papist View Post

Because it definitely SAYS so. Pray tell us what God MEANS.
I see our dear Tyce fancies himself as pope - the interpreter of the Holy Bible because apparently the Holy Ghost isn't nearly as capable as Super Tyce.

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  #202  
Old 03-22-2012, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda View Post
I see our dear Tyce fancies himself as pope - the interpreter of the Holy Bible because apparently the Holy Ghost isn't nearly as capable as Super Tyce.

Heh! The question of the Flood always rattles the unbelievers and false Christians. There's no easy way out of the FACT that God did indeed wipe the earth clean to start again with only a righteous man's family and an ark full of animals but no plants to repopulate.

And yet by His divine power here is the whole world perfect as He intended. The works of the Lord are marvellous indeed and just the fact that He achieved all this in the face of all their scepticism and talk of metaphor shows how the rest of His word has to be similarly heeded and taken as much at face value.
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  #203  
Old 03-23-2012, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Redeemed Papist View Post
Right...

Let's do a simple idiot test.

What does God mean here?
Genesis 7:17-24
17And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth. 18And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. 24And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
I know this is not about rape but I'm starting real slow. Did God actually kill everyone and everything except for what was on the ark?

Because it definitely SAYS so. Pray tell us what God MEANS.
I think you have to put it in context. They didn't know about other continents back then so when the Middle East, Africa, and eastern Europe all flooded, they thought it was the whole world. I mean, they keep finding pieces of the Ark on Mount Ararat in Turkey, so we know Turkey flooded at least. But other that certain types of rocks that could have been made during other smaller floods, you can't really say for sure weather it flooded in north and south America.

But for the verse about marrying your rapist that was true back then and serious Jews should probably still do it (logically, since they don't accept Jesus) but we have a New Covenant now. Its one of the prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus (see Jeremiah 31:31 for example).

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
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  #204  
Old 03-23-2012, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Integra-T View Post
I think you have to put it in context. They didn't know about other continents back then...
Surely GOD, who CREATED the continents knew about them.

Wanna try again?
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  #205  
Old 03-23-2012, 04:54 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Integra-T View Post
I think you have to put it in context. They didn't know about other continents back then so when the Middle East, Africa, and eastern Europe all flooded, they thought it was the whole world. I mean, they keep finding pieces of the Ark on Mount Ararat in Turkey, so we know Turkey flooded at least. But other that certain types of rocks that could have been made during other smaller floods, you can't really say for sure weather it flooded in north and south America.

But for the verse about marrying your rapist that was true back then and serious Jews should probably still do it (logically, since they don't accept Jesus) but we have a New Covenant now. Its one of the prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus (see Jeremiah 31:31 for example).

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
So, do you care to trot out a verse from the New Testament that specfically say that we are to believe in God's Word and obey the instructions of the Bible except for Deuteronomy 22:28?

And where does it say in the Bible that God's Word was true "back then" but not true today?

For that matter, why would an External God put statutes of limitations on His Own statutes? That would be illogical to the point of crazyiness.

You believing such ideas as you have expressed is also illogical, as to whether or not you are crazy, I am not in a position to determine at this moment. You are deluded, however. That I can declare with supreme confidence.


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  #206  
Old 03-23-2012, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Integra-T View Post
I think you have to put it in context. They didn't know about other continents back then so when the Middle East, Africa, and eastern Europe all flooded, they thought it was the whole world. I mean, they keep finding pieces of the Ark on Mount Ararat in Turkey, so we know Turkey flooded at least. But other that certain types of rocks that could have been made during other smaller floods, you can't really say for sure weather it flooded in north and south America.

But for the verse about marrying your rapist that was true back then and serious Jews should probably still do it (logically, since they don't accept Jesus) but we have a New Covenant now. Its one of the prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus (see Jeremiah 31:31 for example).

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
So when the water was flooding right over the top of mount Ararat it didn't run away sideways and cover the rest of the mountains as well; it sort of piled up just on the mountains that the ancient Hebrews knew?

Look, friend, there are kangaroos now so there were kangaroos on the ark, OK!
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  #207  
Old 03-26-2012, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

I do not see where the bible includes rape or force in this passage according to the KJV. Is it not a sin to put words into the bible?

Any true christian who is an honest man would put down such action and see that a man who rapes a woman is punished according to the law, not rewarded by allowing to keep what he stole. Sick perverse men condone such action by interpreting Gods word for their own means.
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Mproulx View Post
...Any true christian who is an honest man would put down such action and see that a man who rapes a woman is punished according to the law...
And God's Law sees to that:

1) He must marry her.
2) He has to pay the father fifty shekels
3) He cannot divorce her (ever).

Even a Canadian should be able to understand this.
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  #209  
Old 03-26-2012, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Didymus Much View Post
And God's Law sees to that:

1) He must marry her.
2) He has to pay the father fifty shekels
3) He cannot divorce her (ever).

Even a Canadian should be able to understand this.
Deuteronomy 22:25-27 speaks of rape
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 speaks of sex outside of marriage

If a man raped my daughter he surely would not marry her, he would know my wrath, and the would be my sin, only God could judge me for that.

You can misinterpret the scipture how you like, but rape is a sin, and is not to be taken light of.
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  #210  
Old 03-26-2012, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Mproulx View Post
Deuteronomy 22:25-27 speaks of rape
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 speaks of sex outside of marriage

If a man raped my daughter he surely would not marry her, he would know my wrath, and the would be my sin, only God could judge me for that.

You can misinterpret the scipture how you like, but rape is a sin, and is not to be taken light of.
Yes some forms of rape are a sin: have you read the rest of this thread? Rape a virgin? Pay up and marry her and you are 'good with God'. Anal rape? That's something totally different

Then the rapist is in trouble, by jimminy! It's stoning time, oh yes!

What you need to do is separate what you think is right and what the Bible (KJV1611) says is right.

But I guess you don't love your daughter enough to do that :thunbdown:

All the best.
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  #211  
Old 03-26-2012, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence Niles View Post
Yes some forms of rape are a sin: have you read the rest of this thread? Rape a virgin? Pay up and marry her and you are 'good with God'. Anal rape? That's something totally different

Then the rapist is in trouble, by jimminy! It's stoning time, oh yes!

What you need to do is separate what you think is right and what the Bible (KJV1611) says is right.

But I guess you don't love your daughter enough to do that :thunbdown:

All the best.
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I think you are missing something here, Deuteronomy 25 clearly states FORCE, Deuteronomy 28 does not, it says take hold of her, and lie with her, I take hold of my wife and lie with her, if both are considered rape why is one only stated as force and the other not. The bible is very clear and there are no 2 different interpretations for the same action.
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  #212  
Old 03-27-2012, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

In honesty, I think you are missing something here.

The Bible doesn't say force in this case because sluts exist.

Lets imagine I was some little trollop who lay with a man without him forcing me to - and we got caught. I could cry rape and the man would be put to death as per 22:25 (assuming I had enough low cunning to make sure we were in a field). I would then be stoned on my wedding night as per 22:21. Either that or, if we were in a city, we'd both be stoned per 22:24.

Long story short, without 22:28 then sluts and the innocent men they could potentially lead on would be killed if caught. As would rapees. Putting force in there would mean that those harlots wouldn't qualify under 22:28.

Our compassionate and loving God has given people a chance to repent of their evil pre-marital sex with only a concern to the father of the slapper/rapee. GLORY
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  #213  
Old 03-27-2012, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mproulx View Post
I think you are missing something here, Deuteronomy 25 clearly states FORCE, Deuteronomy 28 does not, it says take hold of her, and lie with her, I take hold of my wife and lie with her, if both are considered rape why is one only stated as force and the other not. The bible is very clear and there are no 2 different interpretations for the same action.
Having just read Deuteronomy 28:1-68 I see no reference to not forcing your wife.

Could you be a bit clearer in referencing your Scriture (I'm not expecting Harvard, just proper citation I can follow)?

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Old 03-27-2012, 12:46 AM
Mproulx Mproulx is offline
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Laurence Niles View Post
Having just read Deuteronomy 28:1-68 I see no reference to not forcing your wife.

Could you be a bit clearer in referencing your Scriture (I'm not expecting Harvard, just proper citation I can follow)?

YIC
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I already think I clearly stated what I believe, If you read the whole chapter without taking any one verse out of context you cant clearly see that, Deuteronomy 22:28 makes no reference to forced rape, if it does, then tell me why a betrothed damsel who is forced in 22:25-27 is at no sin, but an unbetrothed damsel in 22:28 who is layed hands on "(you call rape) at say 8yrs old is at sin and forced to marry the rapist. Where do you see the logic?
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:00 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Where do you see the logic?
Friend, why are you looking for logic? God's will need not conform to our fallible standards of logic. After all, God's ways are not our ways. (Isaiah 55:8)
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:16 AM
Mproulx Mproulx is offline
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

No it is the logic of men who would interpret the scriptures falsely, Gods word is clear, that im sure of and I am not questioning that, I am however questioning the logic of men, who seem to use to bible for their own means, and falsely twist the WORD. I have no doubt that there is a difference between Force and lay hands on, which is as written in the scripture. And I am sure that God would not force an 8yr old who is raped to marry a rapist. Nuff said. Its up to the individual to discern the right from wrong, and I know where I stand with God.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Mproulx View Post
...Deuteronomy 22:28 makes no reference to forced rape...
Not being able to read the ancient Hebrew myself, I often find a comparative reading of the Scriptures across the various versions yields insight in situations where the meaning may be ambiguous or unclear. So let's look at a few others:

New International Version (©1984) "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered"

English Standard Version (© 2001) "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found,"

New American Standard Bible (© 1995) "If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered..."

God's Word Translation (© 1995) "This is what you must do when a man rapes a virgin who isn't engaged. When the crime is discovered,"

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..., if it does, then tell me why a betrothed damsel who is forced in 22:25-27 is at no sin, but an unbetrothed damsel in 22:28 who is layed hands on "(you call rape) at say 8yrs old is at sin and forced to marry the rapist. Where do you see the logic?
Why do you intentionally overlook the glaring difference between the cases? In one, the young lady is betrothed; in the other, she isn't.

As to why this would make a difference, well, "God works in mysterious ways" (Scriptural support for this available on request) should suffice for someone who CLAIMS to believe.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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No it is the logic of men who would interpret the scriptures falsely, Gods word is clear, that im sure of and I am not questioning that, I am however questioning the logic of men, who seem to use to bible for their own means, and falsely twist the WORD. I have no doubt that there is a difference between Force and lay hands on, which is as written in the scripture. And I am sure that God would not force an 8yr old who is raped to marry a rapist. Nuff said. Its up to the individual to discern the right from wrong, and I know where I stand with God.
Well if you stopped trying to interpret the Word and let the Word interpret itself, you wouldn't get such a headache from trying to figure it out.

You seem like an awfully whiny nag for a man. Are you a homosexual?
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Such comments only come from people who cannot debate or have sound conversation, I will not be tempted to anger by such.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Such comments only come from people who cannot debate or have sound conversation, I will not be tempted to anger by such.
Shall we take your ad hominem as acknowledgement of your defeat?

note: My next reply may be delayed, as I have to go smoke a large joint now.
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