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  #241  
Old 03-31-2012, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincenz View Post

Also DEUTERONOMY 22:28 is in the Old Testament and so does not count, just like divorce law or Sabbath.
Oh, my.

II Timothy 3:16 tells us that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

Having read the Bible very thoroughly, and I have not come accross any "book of Vincenz".

But if you want to go mano a mano with the Lord God Almighty and tell Him that He and most of His Holy Word can go jump into a lake, I certainly can't stop you.


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  #242  
Old 04-01-2012, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

im not aboriginal .... so this is awkward for you and you spelt australia wrong
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  #243  
Old 04-01-2012, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by sane_beleiver View Post
i just would like to know what abo is short for in my country its short for aboriginal. legitemtly curious
Have you not answered your own question? I assume it was a question (even lacking the correct questionation for the clause).

Either you are an abo or a dirty convict. No one from Austria is free of a distinct lack of decency (and hygiene, I'm told).

Jesus is with me.
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  #244  
Old 04-27-2012, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

I talked about the changes Jesus made, like:

Divorce:
Mark 10:4-12 and Matthew 19:3-9

Sabbath:
Mark 2:24-28

In Matthew 19:4-8 Jesus compares the law God gave to Moses for the people with hard hearts and another higher law. Matthew 5:18 is about this higher law, the eternal law for the children of God and not for the people with hard hearts.

And I believe in everything the bible teaches!!!
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  #245  
Old 04-27-2012, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincenz View Post
I talked about the changes Jesus made, like:

Divorce:
Mark 10:4-12 and Matthew 19:3-9

Sabbath:
Mark 2:24-28

In Matthew 19:4-8 Jesus compares the law God gave to Moses for the people with hard hearts and another higher law. Matthew 5:18 is about this higher law, the eternal law for the children of God and not for the people with hard hearts.

And I believe in everything the bible teaches!!!
I see. Jesus specifically mentioned divorce and overturning the Sabbath commandment, but He said nothing about changing the rules to marrying the person who may have impregnated a woman he raped. In your mind it means that rule was set aside even though Jesus never mentions it.

What else did Jesus overturn through His silence? What about the rules against bestiality? Did Jesus say bestiality was okay by saying nothing about it?
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  #246  
Old 04-29-2012, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Does this mean a man should marry his rapist? Oh wait-that wouldnl be gay....and we ALL know being gay is MUCH worse than being a rapist.....its people like you that keep the foster care system packed with fresh souls....better to have an unwanted unplanned ( because she was RAPED)-this also violates the love thy neighbor commandment and is also against the virtues charity and chastity....Matthew 5:43 "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and let's not forget "thou shall not commit adultery " the Bible does not condone sexton outside of marriage...and that whole 50 sheckles thing says the rapist has to PAY for the woman's care the rest of her life...it doesn't say MARRY!
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  #247  
Old 04-29-2012, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdalene415 View Post
Does this mean a man should marry his rapist? Oh wait-that wouldnl be gay....and we ALL know being gay is MUCH worse than being a rapist.....its people like you that keep the foster care system packed with fresh souls....better to have an unwanted unplanned ( because she was RAPED)-this also violates the love thy neighbor commandment and is also against the virtues charity and chastity....Matthew 5:43 "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and let's not forget "thou shall not commit adultery " the Bible does not condone sexton outside of marriage...and that whole 50 sheckles thing says the rapist has to PAY for the woman's care the rest of her life...it doesn't say MARRY!
28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.


Can you read?

YIC

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  #248  
Old 04-30-2012, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

I'm sorry but I literally can't stop being in awe at this, you guys truly speak with the Holy Spirit!
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  #249  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Does anyone have a conversion factor for 50 shekels to God-inscribed sacred dollars? Wanted to have the figure ready in case this comes up in casual conversation or in a back seat.
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  #250  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillian View Post
I'm sorry but I literally can't stop being in awe at this, you guys truly speak with the Holy Spirit!
You could join us, Lillian. Jesus would probably heal your disease, too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bevo_with_hair View Post
Does anyone have a conversion factor for 50 shekels to God-inscribed sacred dollars? Wanted to have the figure ready in case this comes up in casual conversation or in a back seat.
Click here.
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  #251  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

my Lord! That is pricey, anywhere from $400 to $4000 depending on your source. He certainly knew the price point to discourage rape as a means to win the heart of young lady for me. Camels and needles, etc..
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  #252  
Old 05-01-2012, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi Jones View Post
I see. Jesus specifically mentioned divorce and overturning the Sabbath commandment, but He said nothing about changing the rules to marrying the person who may have impregnated a woman he raped. In your mind it means that rule was set aside even though Jesus never mentions it.

What else did Jesus overturn through His silence? What about the rules against bestiality? Did Jesus say bestiality was okay by saying nothing about it?
I see your point, but the New Testament also confirmed a lot of Old Testament laws.
The logic to say, that if something is not stated as a sin it is allowed, is unbiblical because the bible did not say everything is allowed except the named sins. In fact some things are explicit allowed, so I could say everything is forbidden except the allowed things, what is of curse wrong.
The conclusion: The laws that are not mentioned are not revealed to be allowed or forbidden, we just do not know. But I think the New Testament can tell what is sin and what not.
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  #253  
Old 05-03-2012, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincenz View Post
I see your point, but the New Testament also confirmed a lot of Old Testament laws.
The logic to say, that if something is not stated as a sin it is allowed, is unbiblical because the bible did not say everything is allowed except the named sins. In fact some things are explicit allowed, so I could say everything is forbidden except the allowed things, what is of curse wrong.
The conclusion: The laws that are not mentioned are not revealed to be allowed or forbidden, we just do not know. But I think the New Testament can tell what is sin and what not.
You are an idiot and in all that rambling said and then unsaid what you were trying to say.

The Bible authorizes in three ways (here are just a few examples)...

Direct Command: "He that lieth with mankind as with womankind shall surely be put to death." (Leviticus 18:22) From this, we learn the need to kill homosexuals.

Example: "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." (Acts 20:7) From this, we learn to attend church on the first day of the week.

Implication: "22. If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. 24. Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot" (Exodus 21:22-24) From this, we learn that abortion is wrong.

Every verse in the entire Bible can be arranged to in some way authorize us to act as we know that God wants us to act.

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  #254  
Old 05-03-2012, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

The bible was never intended to be the only source of truth; the Sacred Tradition is needed to interpret the Bible correct.
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  #255  
Old 05-03-2012, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

I have a question about this. I'm sure its obvious to the True Christians, but if someone could help me out it'd be greatly appreciated.

Rape is illegal (here at least). What if a woman got raped but, fearing secular punishment, the man fled the scene and the police were unable to find him. That is to say, the woman is willing and knows God's laws but the man is not and is, in fact. unknown. What would be the protocol in that situation?
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  #256  
Old 05-03-2012, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine Moore View Post
I have a question about this. I'm sure its obvious to the True Christians, but if someone could help me out it'd be greatly appreciated.

Rape is illegal (here at least). What if a woman got raped but, fearing secular punishment, the man fled the scene and the police were unable to find him. That is to say, the woman is willing and knows God's laws but the man is not and is, in fact. unknown. What would be the protocol in that situation?
Read the Bible - the answer is there
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Noah Sole View Post
Read the Bible - the answer is there
Well, several answers are there, Brother, but its not clear to me where that one is.

Obviously the woman will be stoned on her wedding night per Deuteronomy 22:20-21 However, there is the punishment for the man to be thought of. It seems that the theft of virginity goes unpunished if the rapist simply has the common sense to deny it was him or run away. Now sure, he's punished in Hell in the afterlife (and may be killed directly by God - Romans 6:23) but that's no good to the poor father of the girl is it? Does his crime go totally unpunished?

Could you point me to where these answers are to be found, Brother? I'm certain you're not mistaken.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Catherine Moore View Post
Well, several answers are there, Brother, but its not clear to me where that one is.

Obviously the woman will be stoned on her wedding night per Deuteronomy 22:20-21 However, there is the punishment for the man to be thought of. It seems that the theft of virginity goes unpunished if the rapist simply has the common sense to deny it was him or run away. Now sure, he's punished in Hell in the afterlife (and may be killed directly by God - Romans 6:23) but that's no good to the poor father of the girl is it? Does his crime go totally unpunished?

Could you point me to where these answers are to be found, Brother? I'm certain you're not mistaken.
Sister Catherine you are so nearly there!

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 "If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."

So the rapist has not paid the fifty shekels or married her by running away, clearly he has 'stolen or dealt falsely':

Leviticus 19:11
Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.

That's enough help - now find what the punishment should be.

Yours in Christ
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

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Originally Posted by Catherine Moore View Post
Well, several answers are there, Brother, but its not clear to me where that one is.

Obviously the woman will be stoned on her wedding night per Deuteronomy 22:20-21
Why would you assume such a whorish child would ever get married? Mr. Etheldreda would never consent to such a union with one of our sons. Wouldn't the girl be the rightful burden of her negligent father for the rest of his life?
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: DEUTERONOMY 22:28 If a woman is raped, she MUST marry her rapist.

Thank you for your reiteration, Brother. It's good to know I'm on the right track.

I'm confused by the point you make about it being theft or false dealing, though, once your reiteration ends. If it were simple theft then the Deuteronomy passage would not be needed - it would be punished as any other theft. God, however, has laid out a specific punishment for this particular form of theft.

Lets stick with the example of theft - its a good one. Normally the punishment is excessive fines or slavery (Exodus 22:1-3) but if a thief steals slaves though they are to be killed (Exodus 21:16).

So we have a blanket prohibition against theft but then an exception in the case of slave theft. It seems clear that this is another such exception as a specific punishment is mentioned. Just as not executing a thief who stole slaves would be against God's law, so would not fining a rapist (in this situation) 50 shekels. We can't simply avoid the punishment because we think we are doing right (Proverbs 11:21)

So, while your post was, as usual, insightful and well-reasoned I'm afraid it has left me further confused. Is your argument that if a specific punishment cannot be levied for whatever reason then a lesser one suffices? I don't see the scripture for that so I'm sure it is not. Thank you so much for indulging me and if I could just trouble you to explain that last point I would greatly appreciate it.

Mary - an excellent point.
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