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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-04-2007, 02:03 PM

I read the bible... not the version you mentioned, but it's an interesting book, but I never really understood exactly why some people take this for truth...
There are plenty of other religions, or interpretations of those religions (you guys are just a small part of christianity), so please explain to me why you are right and they are wrong.
Unfortunatly, the answer: "the Bible says so" is not enough. I know you are convinced that the Bible is the only truth available, but I'm afraid muslims say the exact same thing abouth the koran, and others think it's all the same, books written by people, nothing more. Why would you be right, and all the others wrong?

Note: This section was split off from Is Your Child a Goth, as the discussion merited its own space. -OYK

Last edited by OnYourKnees; 02-05-2007 at 01:43 AM. Reason: Explanatory note added.
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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-04-2007, 02:15 PM

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Originally Posted by davaca View Post
I read the bible... not the version you mentioned, but it's an interesting book, but I never really understood exactly why some people take this for truth...
There are plenty of other religions, or interpretations of those religions (you guys are just a small part of christianity), so please explain to me why you are right and they are wrong.
Unfortunatly, the answer: "the Bible says so" is not enough. I know you are convinced that the Bible is the only truth available, but I'm afraid muslims say the exact same thing abouth the koran, and others think it's all the same, books written by people, nothing more. Why would you be right, and all the others wrong?
Yes well, being a frenchie it would be tougher for you to understand God's Divine Plan. Try reading the REAL Bible, The Holy KJV1611 Bible, the only one dictated directly by God, and you may stand a chance of grasping His love.

Surely you aren't so twisted as to imagine that a filthy sand nigra cult is somehow equivilent to Jesus?


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-04-2007, 02:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
Yes well, being a frenchie it would be tougher for you to understand God's Divine Plan. Try reading the REAL Bible, The Holy KJV1611 Bible, the only one dictated directly by God, and you may stand a chance of grasping His love.

Surely you aren't so twisted as to imagine that a filthy sand nigra cult is somehow equivilent to Jesus?
Well, I guess explaining that explaining Belgium isn't France is useless, after all they're not mentioned in the Bible, so it can't mather anyway, can it?
Anyway, that kjv1611 Bible, exactly what's the difference between that one and the other versions? God himself just came down and told somebody what he wanted to be written down? Strange little story, I thought taking drugs made you goth? whatever...
And you missed my point abouth the islam (or, for that mather, any other religion): from their point of view they are right and you are wrong. and they all have some Gods to back them up, and they probably also came down to tell mankind what to do. So to me, some guy who isn't baised yet, they all look the same. I already asked: why are you right? and I also already told: the Bible says so is not a good anwer.
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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-04-2007, 02:32 PM

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Originally Posted by davaca View Post
There are plenty of other religions, or interpretations of those religions (you guys are just a small part of christianity), so please explain to me why you are right and they are wrong.
Unfortunatly, the answer: "the Bible says so" is not enough. I know you are convinced that the Bible is the only truth available, but I'm afraid muslims say the exact same thing abouth the koran, and others think it's all the same, books written by people, nothing more. Why would you be right, and all the others wrong?

I've been studying religions since I was about 12 years old. Part of that study was the history of religions. For the sake of this conversation, I'll restrict myself to religions that have come about since the death of Christ.

Mooselimbs worship a man, who murdered his way to the top, and molested little girls. Their entire religion says to kell everyone that doesn't believe as they, kill anyone that leaves the religion, and die in the service of Allah killing innocent people(especially Christians) so you can receive virgins and camels in the afterlife.

Cathylicks worship everything, but the original doctrine of Christ. That's because the entire cathylick religion is based off pagan holidays, and pagan saints. Check out the real history of St Brigid sometime.

King James though.... He wanted to get out from under the thumb of the cathylicks to be sure, but he didn't just add what he thought would bring him more power like the council of Nicea did.

Other sects have spring up in the last 400 years or less. Most of those were started by some guy in a tent that liked to screw the young farmer's daughters after the sermon. They're the ones that started the "feel-good church of Christianity" as I like to call it.

I'll go one more. Mormons... They say they're Christian. The problem with their religion is that they founded a religion on relics that only one man ever say, and use a book that only one man ever saw. Joseph Young was charismatic, and he catered to a percentaage of men that wanted a harem.


"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservant's do."
(Leviticus 21:6-7)
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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-04-2007, 02:39 PM

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And you missed my point abouth the islam (or, for that mather, any other religion): from their point of view they are right and you are wrong. and they all have some Gods to back them up, and they probably also came down to tell mankind what to do.
Okay.... No army in the history of earth has ever gone to the battlefield thinking God sided with the enemy.

From a logical standpoint, everyone should leave everyone else the hell alone. But that doesn't happen. God laid down some pretty straight forward rules. They're in the old and new testament. That whole, "Don't tread on me," doctrine came from somewhere. Honestly though, check out the histories of the world's modern religions. You'll find one hell of a lot of contradictions.


"If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. . . . And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the manservant's do."
(Leviticus 21:6-7)
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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-04-2007, 02:46 PM

I have to admit, that seems to be correct. Congratulations, you proved some others to be wrong... wait... no, you didn't. You just said that they are different. Is that any reason to believe that they are completely wrong?
For me it isn't. You see, I do think we can agree that if there is a God, we can't understand him, since we are just humans. So maybe He first made the pagans, so it could evolve into catholicism. Or perhaps he wants us to kill others to achieve a goal. who knows, he can let them choose afterwards anyway so they still don't have to go to hell for sure.
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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-04-2007, 03:06 PM

The Bible, including Jesus and the Resurrection, are historically proven fact. None of the false religions even mention the Resurrection, the single most important moment in history. Only God cares enough about the world to have His only begotten Son temporarily killed for our sins.


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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-04-2007, 05:23 PM

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Originally Posted by davaca View Post
after all they're not mentioned in the Bible, so it can't mather anyway, can it?
Anyway, that kjv1611 Bible, exactly what's the difference between that one and the other versions? God himself just came down and told somebody what he wanted to be written down? Strange little story, I thought taking drugs made you goth? whatever...
And you missed my point abouth the islam (or, for that mather, any other religion): from their point of view they are right and you are wrong. and they all have some Gods to back them up, and they probably also came down to tell mankind what to do. So to me, some guy who isn't baised yet, they all look the same. I already asked: why are you right? and I also already told: the Bible says so is not a good anwer.

That is the point Friend; The Bible is God’s message to creation. If Islam or Mormonism were the right one God would say so in The Bible and they wouldn’t have to have those extra books.

Look, the argument of Islam and Mormonism is damn silly from their own view point friend; they all claim to worship the same God as the Christians do. This God is supposed to be all powerful, all knowing, active in the world and perfect. So according to Mohamed and Joseph Smith God is too dumb or doesn’t care so mere men could screw up His message The Bible so God felt the need to put out supplemental works. They undermine themselves with their own argument. If God is that dumb, weak or uncaring why worship Him?



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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-04-2007, 11:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Sister Mary Maria View Post
The Bible, including Jesus and the Resurrection, are historically proven fact. None of the false religions even mention the Resurrection, the single most important moment in history. Only God cares enough about the world to have His only begotten Son temporarily killed for our sins.
Jesus is a proven fact. Moses going out of egypt is a proven fact. There are, indeed, a lot of proven facts. However, the Bible also contains a lot of metaphors (the creation of earth) or details that where changed for some reason, like the sea splitting and a pilar of fire coming down upon the egyptians to stop them (That one was written by the Jew's high priest because the jews where, yet again, slaves somewhere... Babylon, I believe).

While a lot of the basic stories are hystorically correct,almost everything is writen by humans, and certainly not by some God. The only thing which I can agree on are the ten commandments. But, for example, the first testament. The first gospel was written in abouth the year 60, and the last on in abouth 100... So Jesus would be dead for 27 or 67 years, depending which one you're talking abouth. None of the writers ever met Jesus, and because the average age wasn't to high back then, they probably haven't met many people who actually had met Jesus. Their writtings are based on the few eyewithnesses who were still alive, some mysterious text called the Q-text which we don't know right now and other, loose fragments.

Of course, there where more than four gospels written, the non canonical gospels. The death sea scrolls, for example, or one abouth Jesus years as a child (that one is almost sure to be completely made up). There where more, but I doubt we'll ever find them all. Most are probably destroyed anyway. I hope you guys know that the only reason the ones that are in the Bible right now are in the Bible right now, is because they where chosen, I believe somewhere after the year 300... I somebody gives you a lot of stories abouth the same event, and you have to choose four that are right and others are wrong, I don't think there is a lot you have to base yourself upon.
All of this means that, despite the fact that Jesus lived and that he was an extraordinary man, not his whole story is a fact.

It's also like I'm wrong right now, but I believe that the ressurection is mentioned in the qur'an. After all, Jesus might not be considered to be the son of God in that book, but he supposed to be a pretty important prophet. I'm not sure, though... But of course, for the other 'false' religions, that isn't an important thing, after all, Jesus has nothing to do with them.

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Quote:
That is the point Friend; The Bible is God’s message to creation. If Islam or Mormonism were the right one God would say so in The Bible and they wouldn’t have to have those extra books.
Look, the argument of Islam and Mormonism is damn silly from their own view point friend; they all claim to worship the same God as the Christians do. This God is supposed to be all powerful, all knowing, active in the world and perfect. So according to Mohamed and Joseph Smith God is too dumb or doesn’t care so mere men could screw up His message The Bible so God felt the need to put out supplemental works. They undermine themselves with their own argument. If God is that dumb, weak or uncaring why worship Him?
For mormonism: You do realise Chrisianity started as what is today known as catholicism, right? You guys split off too... and for the Islam: It's a different religion. Mohamed has taken parts of both Judaism and christianity, but they don't even use the Bible. It's like a Jew saying that Jesus is nog important because he isn't mentioned in the torah (Which I believe is roughly the same as the old testament, right?)

And for the second part, I can again compare it to the Jews: Jesus came there, and basically start telling the word of God. There are still Jews around today, so I guess not everybody believed him... It's about the exact same thing. But for you Jesus is real, but don't forget that he lived quite some time ago.

Perhaps God thinks that his rules shouldn't be always exactly the same. I know that He is supposed to be all knowing, but mankind changes. We learn new things, we stop doing other things. As a lousy example, it would be useless if God let Jesus tell us what to do with video games; I think most people would have declared him insane because those didn't exist.

Another example: If you are the captain of a ship, you can't sail always to the east. For 200 miles that might be great, but then there is a storm, and even if you knew about this storm all along, going east was the best to do, but now it isn't anymore. The orders have to change.

Do you understand what I mean? Mankind changes, we discover new things, and let go of old things. If a God created us, he must have intended it that way, and he must know that after some changes the orders we reciever earlier are no longer correct, and so he sends a new prophet.

I know Jesus wasn't a regular prophet, so perhaps a lot had to change. after all, he did bring a huge change, Christianity is still the biggest religion in the world...

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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-04-2007, 11:38 PM

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You do realise Chrisianity started as what is today known as catolisism, right? You guys split off too...
I'm ignoring most of your rambling because you obviously know nothing of history or the Truth of the Bible. Instead I will focus on this one lie. Baptists were never catolists! We aren't even Protestants or Catholics. We predate them all, going right back to John the Baptist and Jesus Christ.


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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-05-2007, 12:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by davaca View Post
Do you understand what I mean? Mankind changes, we discover new things, and let go of old things. If a God created us, he must have intended it that way, and he must know that after some changes the orders we reciever earlier are no longer correct, and so he sends a new prophet.
Why would God change His rules??? God by definition perfect and unchanging. What you just posted is apologetics for that made up religion and again is heresy because it makes God out to be a bumbling fool who has to stumble along in the wake of man. Buy arguing this you are spitting into the face of God, calling Him a feeble, foolish and shortsited. With this statement you are trying to push Him over, urinate on Him and then writting what you want on His forhead with a sharpe pen.

That my friend is not Christian.

God sent Christ because the Jew, man, refused to obey Him. God inspired the Christians to break away from the Catholics because the Pope, man again, twisted God’s message. It is man that fails not God. If God can fail He is not God as TRUE Christians define Him. Maybe you find that acceptable in your hippy, preacher feel good religion friend but I keep faith in The God of The Bible. Is your idea of Sunday worship kicking arround a cross and shouting "looser" at it at the top of your' lungs?

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Originally Posted by davaca View Post
I know Jesus wasn't a regular prophet, so perhaps a lot had to change. after all, he did bring a huge change, Christianity is still the biggest religion in the world...
Jesus no mere prophet friend; He is God.



Time to reclaim our FREEDOM from the “Mullah in Chief” and his growing activist voter hoards of socialists, communists, anti-Semites, anti-Christians, atheists, radical gays and lesbians, feminists, illegal immigrants, Muslims, anti-Anglo whites and others.

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Default Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God? - 02-05-2007, 09:47 PM

We are going nowhere this way, are we? Youre interpretation of my words is wrong. I'm not saying that your God isn't perfect or unchanging, but humans are. Unless God is actually stupid,which I doubt, He is aware of this, and if must realise that if He want us to go back to his right path, the best way to get there might have changed too.



And Jesus might or might not have been God, God's son, both or just some guy who had a lot of good stuff to say, by declaring the word of God while in a human form you are a prophet. The 'fact' that he is more than just a prophet doesn't mean he isn't a prophet any more.
But of course, that's just a name and I don't think it really mathers.
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Default Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God? - 02-05-2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by davaca View Post
We are going nowhere this way, are we? Youre interpretation of my words is wrong. I'm not saying that your God isn't perfect or unchanging, but humans are. Unless God is actually stupid,which I doubt, He is aware of this, and if must realise that if He want us to go back to his right path, the best way to get there might have changed too.



And Jesus might or might not have been God, God's son, both or just some guy who had a lot of good stuff to say, by declaring the word of God while in a human form you are a prophet. The 'fact' that he is more than just a prophet doesn't mean he isn't a prophet any more.
But of course, that's just a name and I don't think it really mathers.
So what you're saying is, God said not to change, add to, or remove one word from His Word, by which He meant, "Rewrite this however you like if it seems out of date or stale." Yes?
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Default Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God? - 02-06-2007, 08:45 PM

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Originally Posted by OnYourKnees View Post
So what you're saying is, God said not to change, add to, or remove one word from His Word, by which He meant, "Rewrite this however you like if it seems out of date or stale." Yes?
No, I'm saying God knows humans change, and just might change his rules because there are bether alternatives for the specific, changed situation.
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Default Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God? - 02-06-2007, 09:04 PM

So if people suddenly decide that rape, murder, and drinking urine is okay, God makes allowances for that? I'm having trouble following your "logic" here...


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1 Timothy 2:13-15 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
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Default Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God? - 02-06-2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by davaca View Post
No, I'm saying God knows humans change, and just might change his rules because there are bether alternatives for the specific, changed situation.
So you're suggesting that God, who knows all past, present, and future, was not capable of determining rules that would apply in the future?

So either God is an incompetent writer, or God is not omniscient. Which is it?
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Default Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God? - 02-07-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by davaca View Post
We are going nowhere this way, are we? Youre interpretation of my words is wrong. I'm not saying that your God isn't perfect or unchanging, but humans are. Unless God is actually stupid,which I doubt, He is aware of this, and if must realise that if He want us to go back to his right path, the best way to get there might have changed too.



And Jesus might or might not have been God, God's son, both or just some guy who had a lot of good stuff to say, by declaring the word of God while in a human form you are a prophet. The 'fact' that he is more than just a prophet doesn't mean he isn't a prophet any more.
But of course, that's just a name and I don't think it really mathers.
What is your native language? Because I'm certain it can't be American. We are having a difficult time trying to follow your childish thought patterns. Are you a drug addict of some kind? Or maybe in a group home?

By the way, are you that pervert who has those out-of-focus photos all over Flicker? Because if you are, the DOF is looking for you.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

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Default Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God? - 02-07-2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by davaca View Post
No, I'm saying God knows humans change, and just might change his rules because there are bether alternatives for the specific, changed situation.
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:8

For I am the LORD, I change not;
Therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Malachi 3:6


If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: But if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it.
A foolish woman is clamorous: She is simple, and knoweth nothing.
Proverbs 9:12-13
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Default Re: Is Your Child A Goth? - 02-07-2007, 08:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Mary Maria View Post
I'm ignoring most of your rambling because you obviously know nothing of history or the Truth of the Bible. Instead I will focus on this one lie. Baptists were never catolists! We aren't even Protestants or Catholics. We predate them all, going right back to John the Baptist and Jesus Christ.
And who told you that?
That isn't true at all. First there was catholism, then the protestants split of of them. And baptists are just one form of protestantism.
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Default Re: Why is the Bible the ONLY True Word of God? - 02-11-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Mary Maria View Post
So if people suddenly decide that rape, murder, and drinking urine is okay, God makes allowances for that? I'm having trouble following your "logic" here...
No, I'm saying that God can decide that, for the human race to get to the right path, some rules are only temporaly neccecary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnYourKnees View Post
So you're suggesting that God, who knows all past, present, and future, was not capable of determining rules that would apply in the future?

So either God is an incompetent writer, or God is not omniscient. Which is it?
see above...
I'll give you the example of the ship again: you are a captain of a ship. You are fully aware of a storm brewing in the direction you want to go, but it's still better to go in the direction of the storm for some time, and then change that direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel View Post
What is your native language? Because I'm certain it can't be American. We are having a difficult time trying to follow your childish thought patterns. Are you a drug addict of some kind? Or maybe in a group home?

By the way, are you that pervert who has those out-of-focus photos all over Flicker? Because if you are, the DOF is looking for you.
My native language is Dutch/Flemish I am not a drug addict, and I'm also not in a group home. I also have nothing to do with the flicker guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalvationSeeker View Post
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Hebrews 13:8

For I am the LORD, I change not;
Therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Malachi 3:6
You are not a son of Jacob, since you are not a Jew... So I gues you just have to be consumed, right?
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