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  #1  
Old 10-29-2012, 06:42 PM
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Default Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Prayer Warriors, please join with me today in praying that our Lord, in His infinite wisdom and mercy, will remove Fire Island (hotbed of homosexual perversions, Ground Zero for AIDS) from existence!

May He also use His storm to topple the Statue of Liberty, that it may be replaced with a cross that informs all arriving in New York that this is a CHRISTIAN nation!

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Old 10-29-2012, 06:52 PM
Matthew Hopkins Matthew Hopkins is offline
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post
Prayer Warriors, please join with me today in praying that our Lord, in His infinite wisdom and mercy, will remove Fire Island (hotbed of homosexual perversions, Ground Zero for AIDS) from existence!

May He also use His storm to topple the Statue of Liberty, that it may be replaced with a cross that informs all arriving in New York that this is a CHRISTIAN nation!

Amen, Brother, Amen! The cross that not only informs that this is a CHRISTIAN nation, but also that non-Christians ARE NOT WELCOME!

YBIC
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Not to mention that the Statue of Liberty came from that Papist den of iniquity known as France.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl the wop View Post
Not to mention that the Statue of Liberty came from that Papist den of iniquity known as France.

I know you guys would think the Statue of Liberty is very evil after i tell you this, it was built by Freemasons, it has symboly of sun worship, is a roman pagan goddess Libertas, and i have also been told that it is a symbol of Lucifer the roman god of light. (not your devil)

ALL HAIL THE DOGS
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

I must admit to being somewhat disappointed when God was flying planes into Joo York that the great big green whore was spared destruction.

When will NY learn.....is Bill Nye there per chance?
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  #6  
Old 10-29-2012, 08:48 PM
Matthew Hopkins Matthew Hopkins is offline
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandlove View Post
ALL HAIL THE DOGS
Why would we hail dogs? Are you a mormon?

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Old 10-29-2012, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

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Originally Posted by Matthew Hopkins View Post
Why would we hail dogs? Are you a mormon?

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Methinks they might be recovering from their stint as a Dyslexic Agnostic. I will pray that they see The Light.
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  #8  
Old 10-30-2012, 02:07 AM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandlove View Post
I know you guys would think the Statue of Liberty is very evil after i tell you this, it was built by Freemasons, it has symboly of sun worship, is a roman pagan goddess Libertas, and i have also been told that it is a symbol of Lucifer the roman god of light. (not your devil)

ALL HAIL THE GODS
There is no "Lucifer, Roman god of light". Do you believe everything people tell you? No wonder you're a "pagan".

The name was invented by Papists writing the Latin Vulgate. Look it up.

I'd be happy to send you a dollar if you would use it to buy a clue.

Now, back to the subject: 13-foot storm surge reported at Battery Park City! Even better than expected! And Atlantic City (casinos and all) cut off from the mainland!
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  #9  
Old 10-30-2012, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

God really gave it to Jew York City!

Quote:
(Reuters) -
Millions of people across the eastern United States awoke on Tuesday to scenes of destruction wrought by monster storm Sandy, which knocked out power to huge swathes of the nation's most densely populated region, swamped New York's subway system and submerged streets in Manhattan's financial district.

At least 15 people were reported killed in the United States by Sandy, one of the biggest storms to ever hit the country, which dropped just below hurricane status before making landfall on Monday night in New Jersey.
I hope now that all those Hebes, fags, Muslims, and other unsaved scums realize that they are just putty in His hands and that if He wanted to, He could crush them like bugs! Take it from me, unsaved losers, but Hurricane Sandy was just a warning shot!

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Old 10-30-2012, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Keep on praying, everybody! And remember that Mitt Romney is on our side: he's clearly stated that federal help for disaster victims is "immoral":



Pray for the fall of the Kenyan Occupation Government (KOG) which is working 100% to thwart the will of God:

...Obama has signed at least nine federal emergency disaster declarations in the past 24 hours at the request of state governors, directing FEMA to deploy more resources in anticipation of significant recovery efforts. He canceled campaign stops for Monday and Tuesday to return to the White House to oversee the federal government's evolving storm response.

...Obama campaigned four years ago on a promise to revamp the federal government's disaster-response functions and has embraced changes long sought by state governors and professional emergency managers. Since becoming president, he has led the federal response to multiple natural disasters, including tornadoes, flooding and major hurricanes, learning from government stumbles during the presidency of George W. Bush -- most notably in the case of Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Obama's posture has been to order federal agencies to aggressively prepare for and respond to major storms and other disasters.
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  #11  
Old 10-31-2012, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post
There is no "Lucifer, Roman god of light". Do you believe everything people tell you? No wonder you're a "pagan".

The name was invented by Papists writing the Latin Vulgate. Look it up.

I'd be happy to send you a dollar if you would use it to buy a clue.

Now, back to the subject: 13-foot storm surge reported at Battery Park City! Even better than expected! And Atlantic City (casinos and all) cut off from the mainland!
dud then name lucifer means light bringer he was the roman god of the morning and evening star, his greek name was Phosphoros, same meaning light bringer
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:18 AM
Matthew Hopkins Matthew Hopkins is offline
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandlove View Post
dud then name lucifer means light bringer he was the roman god of the morning and evening star, his greek name was Phosphoros, same meaning light bringer
Why do insist on peddling your innacurate grasp of classical mythology on a Christian forum? Why do you hate Jesus so much?

YBIC
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

My Prayers are with you too, especially after the demon infested statue began impersonating another well known whore. Imagine my surprise when I saw this on the news;

Name:  Statue-of-Liberty-in-Marilyn-Monroe-Dress---90981.jpg
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Hopkins View Post
Why do insist on peddling your innacurate grasp of classical mythology on a Christian forum? Why do you hate Jesus so much?

YBIC

I do not hate Jesus he is one one of best friends lol
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Old 10-31-2012, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Quote:
Originally Posted by liveandlove View Post
dud then name lucifer means light bringer he was the roman god of the morning and evening star, his greek name was Phosphoros, same meaning light bringer
Please show me a reference for this.

A textbook or something. Go ahead. Find it. Use your Google.

I'll wait here.








OK, no, I won't wait here. This is an online forum; my waiting here would be silly. But I do want to see your reference for the "Roman god Lucifer".

Back to the subject: Long Island Sound got battered, but I haven't heard a word about Fire Island! Is it still there? Did God remove it? Does anyone know?
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:03 AM
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liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.
Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post
Please show me a reference for this.

A textbook or something. Go ahead. Find it. Use your Google.

I'll wait here.








OK, no, I won't wait here. This is an online forum; my waiting here would be silly. But I do want to see your reference for the "Roman god Lucifer".

Back to the subject: Long Island Sound got battered, but I haven't heard a word about Fire Island! Is it still there? Did God remove it? Does anyone know?


Phosphorus (morning star)

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A 2nd-century sculpture of the Moon-goddess Selene accompanied by perhaps Phosphorus and Hesperus: the corresponding Latin names are Luna, Lucifer and Vesper.



Stanisław Wyspiański: Eos, Phosphoros, Hesperos, Helios, black-coloured pencil drawing, The National Museum in Warsaw, 1897


"Eosphoros" redirects here. For the episode of the television drama series, see Eosphoros (Law & Order: Criminal Intent).
Phosphorus (Greek Φωσφόρος Phōsphoros), a name meaning "Light-Bringer", is the Morning Star, the planet Venus in its morning appearance. Φαοσφόρος (Phaosphoros) and Φαεσφόρος (Phaesphoros) are forms of the same name in some Greek dialects.
Another Greek name for the Morning Star is Ἑωσφόρος (Heōsphoros), which means "Dawn-Bringer". The form Eosphorus is sometimes met in English, as if from Ἠωσφόρος (Ēōsphoros), which is not actually found in Greek literature,[1] but would be the form that Ἑωσφόρος would have in some dialects. As an adjective, the Greek word is applied in the sense of "light-bringing" to, for instance, the dawn, the god Dionysos, pine torches, the day; and in the sense of "torch-bearing" as an epithet of several god and goddesses, especially Hecate but also of Artemis/Diana and Hephaestus.[2]
The Latin word lucifer, corresponding to Greek φωσφόρος, was used as a name for the morning star and thus appeared in the Vulgate translation of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל (helel) - meaning Venus as the brilliant, bright or shining one - in Isaiah 14:12, where the Septuagint Greek version uses, not Φωσφόρος, but Ἑωσφόρος. As a translation of the same Hebrew word the King James Version gave "Lucifer", a name often understood as a reference to Satan. Modern translations of the same passage render the Hebrew word instead as "morning star", "daystar", "shining one" or "shining star". In Revelation 22:16, Jesus is referred to as the morning star, but not as lucifer in Latin, nor as φωσφόρος in the original Greek text, which instead has ὁ ἀστὴρ ὁ λαμπρὸς ὁ πρωϊνός, literally: the star the bright of the morning.
Contents

[hide] [edit] Venus

The morning star is an appearance of the planet Venus, an inferior planet, meaning that its orbit lies between that of the Earth and the Sun. Depending on the orbital locations of both Venus and Earth, it can be seen in the eastern morning sky for an hour or so before the Sun rises and dims it, or in the western evening sky for an hour or so after the Sun sets, when Venus itself then sets. It is the brightest object in the sky after the Sun and the Moon, outshining the planets Saturn and Jupiter but, while these rise high in the sky, Venus never does. This may lie behind myths about deities associated with the morning star proudly striving for the highest place among the gods and being cast down.[3]
[edit] Mythology


Hesperus as Personification of the Evening by Anton Raphael Mengs, Palacete de la Moncloa, Madrid, 1765


In Greek mythology, Hesiod calls Phosphorus a son of Astraeus and Eos,[4] but other say of Cephalus and Eos, or of Atlas.[5]
The Latin poet Ovid, speaking of Phosphorus and Hesperus (the Evening Star, the evening appearance of the planet Venus) as identical, makes him the father of Daedalion.[6] Ovid also makes him the father of Ceyx,[7] while the Latin grammarian Servius makes him the father of the Hesperides or of Hesperis[5]
While at an early stage the Morning Star (called Phosphorus and other names) and the Evening Star (referred to by names such as Hesperus) were thought of as two celestial objects, the Greeks accepted that the two were the same, but they seem to have continued to treat the two mythological entities as distinct. Halbertal and Margalit interpret this as indicating that they did not identify the star with the god or gods of mythology "embodied" in the star.[8]
[edit] Frege's Puzzle

In the philosophy of language, "Hesperus is Phosphorus" is a famous sentence in relation to the semantics of proper names. Gottlob Frege used the terms "the evening star" (der Abendstern) and "the morning star" (der Morgenstern) to illustrate his distinction between sense and reference, and subsequent philosophers changed the example to "Hesperus is Phosphorus" so that it utilized proper names. Saul Kripke used the sentence to demonstrate that the knowledge of something necessary (in this case the identity of Hesperus and Phosphorus) could be discoverable rather than known a priori. On this question see Frege's Puzzle.
Latin literature

The Latin word corresponding to Greek "Phosphorus" is "Lucifer". It is used in its astronomical sense both in prose[9] and poetry.[10] Poets sometimes personify the star, placing it in a mythological context.[11]


One of the favorite rumors that fundy Christians like to spread against the Gnostics is that they supposedly worship Lucifer the light-bearer. Supposedly Gnostics worship this secret fallen angel of light who also challenged Jehovah in the form of the Serpent in the Garden of Eden.



Now it is true that Gnostics typically don’t regard the Serpent in Eden in a negative light: but this is based on philosophical considerations and not on the literalistic proposition that the serpent in the garden should be venerated [1]. But of course I don’t expect fundies to understand issues of such intellectual complexity. In the eyes of fundies if you don’t simply believe their way then you’re a Satanist. And if you happen to believe in something that is really complex, then they’ll label you a Luciferian. The Luciferian label is often reserved for those people who are not overtly evil the way Satanists aspire to be. The Luciferians are those people who maintain a form of virtue and piety that is directed in opposition to the “Creator” i.e. Jehovah. In the eyes of fundies Luciferianism is like Satan Lite; it’s Satanism for clean people. (I have personally had these rationalizations and categories used on me by ‘fundy’ Christians.)



Certainly I cannot speak for all Gnostics in regard to the “Lucifer” issue. I can only speak for myself and for what I know about the Gnostic tradition and the history of religious ideas. I know for a fact that “Lucifer” originally was the name of a god in ancient Roman mythology. Lucifer was the son of the dawn goddess named Aurora; and the Romans named the planet we call “Venus” after him. Among the Romans Lucifer was identified with the morning star; and the word Lucifer literally means “light-bearer.” Among the Greeks Lucifer corresponded to Eosphoros in classical Greek, and to “Phosphoros” in later common Greek; again both names mean “light-bearer.” Eosphoros was the son of the dawn goddess whom the Greeks called Eos. (Note: I suspect that “Eos” is the source of the name for the Germanic dawn goddess festival “Eostre” which was celebrated in the spring. This in turn was the source of our word “Easter.” Webster’s New World Dictionary specifically identifies the word “Easter” as a name for the “dawn goddess.” If all this is correct then it appears that “orthodox” tradition has inadvertently named its Paschal observance after the mother of Eosphoros, a.k.a. Lucifer.)



The biblical origin of Lucifer begins in Isaiah 14:12, “How you are fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!” This quote is from the King James, but the Hebrew text says “How you have fallen from heaven O morning star, son of the dawn!” Note that the Hebrew text does not contain the proper name of any god. I have been unable to determine if the ancient Israelites actually identified the morning star with any angel or god. Among Semitic cultures in general the morning star was identified with the god Azizos (Azazel?). It is in the Greek Old Testament that the morning star was first identified with the name of a god. Apparently the words “son of the dawn” reminded the Hellenistic Jewish translators of Eosphoros in Greek tradition. Eosphoros is the Greek equivalent of Lucifer, and this was the source from which “Lucifer” entered into both Latin and English translations of the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments (see below).



Having set forth some basic historical facts (and theories) regarding this name, I want to talk about the role of Lucifer in ancient Gnostic theology and myth. The simple fact here is that the Gnostics never used the names “Lucifer” or “Eosphoros” (or Phosphoros) in the age in which they lived. More important is that in the Gnostic scheme of the cosmos, Lucifer, the planet “Venus”, was identified with the seven celestial archons that governed the cosmos. The Gnostics regarded these as little more than fallen angels or demons. This is a common pattern shared by all Gnostic systems. Various Gnostic treatises provide lists of the seven powers that govern the cosmos (e.g. Apocryphon of John, 10-11, On the Origin of the World, 101). These names are meant to imply that the godhead of the Old Testament is divided into seven powers that correspond (like the pagan gods) to the seven days of the week. In the varying Gnostic lists it appears that the sixth power is named after “Adonin” or “Oraios”, or also: Oreus (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1.30.11). The Anglican scholar Wigan Harvey identified the name Oreus as meaning “Light” (Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pg. 355, fn. 1; cf. Origin of the World, 101). If this is correct then I believe it’s probable that the names Oreus/Oraios may be an obscure reference to the “light-bearer.” In the Apocryphon of John this may correspond to “Adonin” which is given as the name of the sixth power (ibid., 10-11).



The essential point I’m trying to make is that “Lucifer” is a name for one of the planets which the Gnostics identified with the celestial archons. The Gnostics did not identify these archons with the Godhead. In Gnostic myth these powers guarded the celestial spheres that the soul had to travel through in order to return to the Pleroma. These archons were considered to be the servants of the cosmic villain Yaldabaoth. Later, in the Middle Ages, the Gnostic Cathars identified the Rex Mundi (world ruler) as Lucifer. It is highly significant that the Cathars regarded Lucifer as the Enemy, and as the evil god behind the papal theocracy (Edward Peters, Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, pg. 133f. W. Barnstone, M. Meyer, The Gnostic Bible, pg. 733f.).



Historically the Gnostics had no concept of the “morning star” in their symbolism. There is no “light-bearer” in ancient Gnostic tradition. If Gnostics today refer to Lucifer or the “light-bearer” then this is pure hyperbole. In modern Gnostic circles Lucifer is often equated with Prometheus. In Greek mythology Prometheus was a light-bearer who brought the knowledge of fire to humans in order to raise them from their impoverished condition. Zeus became jealous because the knowledge of fire-making, and other skills and arts, had been given to Humans. This is the common motif that is behind the concept of Lucifer today among Gnostics and atheists. Hence Lucifer-Prometheus is not an evil being. He is an enlightened rebel who opposes the jealousy and severity of Zeus/Jehovah. In this context Jesus, in the Gnostic tradition, can be compared to Lucifer-Prometheus. In like manner Jesus brings the Light/Knowledge of the Pleroma down to human kind. Now again, in comparing Jesus to Lucifer-Prometheus I’m describing a modern metaphor that I have heard used by other Gnostics. The ancient Gnostics never made this comparison in any extant text; nor do the Catholic Fathers ever accuse the Gnostics of revering Lucifer, or of identifying Jesus with Lucifer – either as a metaphor, or as literal doctrine.



Now some fundies may answer me by saying that the ancient Gnostics did not mention Lucifer because they kept it secret and that this was the Gnostic “arcanum arcanorum.” I have two answers to this: 1) The Gnostic contempt for Jehovah was a poorly kept secret; and I think that the case can be made that the Gnostics did a poor job of keeping any of their secrets. 2) My second answer is that the Gnostics would have no reason to keep anything secret that their “orthodox” Christian counterparts used openly anyway. And this is where we come to the real irony of the history of Lucifer. In contrast with the Gnostics, the “orthodox” Christians did have their own “morning star” and “light bearer.” And these symbols appear in sources that were not used in Gnostic tradition. If fundies want to use the name “Lucifer” as the name of Satan, and as a label for people like me, then it is only fair to point out that this label works both ways.



Incredibly, Lucifer the light-bearer does appear in “orthodox” Christian tradition, and in the canon. He appears in the Latin and Greek texts of 2 Peter 1:19. Here is the Latin text of the passage side by side with Isaiah 14:12 where the word “Lucifer”–the name of Satan–also occurs.



Isaiah 14:12,



“Quomodo cecidisti de caelo LUCIFER qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes.”



2 Peter 1:19b,



“… quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et LUCIFER oriatur in cordibus vestris.” (See below for English translation.)



These passages can be accessed online at this link http://www.drbo.org/lvb/



Now, in making sense of this issue I am raising questions about how Fundies read and translate the scriptures, and not the history behind what these scriptures say. Fundies call Gnostics “Luciferians” and that “Lucifer” is the name of Satan. Fundies will even cite Isaiah 14:12 which for them proves that “Lucifer” is the name of Satan. And yet here this same evil name is used in a positive way in the New Testament. The reason we find the name Lucifer in the Latin text of 2 Peter 1:19 is because it was translated from the earlier Greek text which contains the name “Phosphoros.” Again, Phosphoros is the later form of Eosphoros in Hellenistic Greek. At this link the readers can see where Phosphoros is the name of a pagan god in Greek mythology. http://www.theoi.com/Titan/AsterEosphoros.html (In the sources cited note that Eosphoros and Phosphoros are used interchangeably.)



The fact that Greeks and Romans identified Lucifer and Phosphoros as the same god can be seen most dramatically in this passage from the famous Roman statesman and orator Cicero, from his treatise On the Nature of the Gods:



“The lowest of the five wandering stars, and the one nearest the earth, is the planet of Venus, which is called Φωσϕόρος (Phosphoros –jw) in Greek, and Lucifer in Latin, …it completes its course in a year, traversing the zodiac both latitudinally and longitudinally, as is also done by the planets above it, and on whichever side of the sun it is, it never departs more than two signs’ distance from it. (21) This constancy, then, among the stars, this marked agreement of times through the whole of eternity, though the movements are so various, I cannot understand as existing without mind and reason and forethought, and since we find that these qualities are possessed by the heavenly bodies, we cannot but assign to those bodies themselves their place among the number of divine beings.” (De Natura Deorum, 2:20-21)



This passage can be seen online text at the following link



http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=5 39&chapter=82062&layout=html&Itemid=27



Cicero identified Phosphoros with Lucifer, whom he presumed to be a “divine” being. Phosphoros is the very name that appears in the Greek text of 2 Peter 1:19, which I will quote here in English. The Greek text can be seen at the link below.



“We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawns, and the day star (Phosphoros) arise in your hearts. (20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”



http://www.greekbible.com/index.php



This passage warns against the method of reading private esoteric interpretations into scripture, as is done through the allegorical method. I believe this passage is aimed at Gnostics; and the verse which follows appears to be an attack on the Gnostics “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who secretly shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them…” (2 Peter 2:1; emphasis added.)



2 Peter portrays “Phosphoros” as a symbolic adversary of the heretics (Gnostics) who secretly brought in heretical teachings. Here “Phosphoros” is the light bearer who symbolizes the true understanding of prophecy, and the proper use of the prophetic spirit (i.e. the “Holy Ghost”). It is incredible to me that this name “Phosphoros”, which is a name for Satan, can be used in a passage as a symbol of the truth of the Holy Spirit. What can the name of a pagan celestial deity possibly have in common with the Holy Spirit? The meaning is that if the Christian reads Bible prophecy in light of the Holy Ghost who inspired those scriptures, then “Phosphoros” will rise in the hearts of the readers. I don’t know of any Gnostic writings that blaspheme this bad! I’m a Gnostic, and this is offensive even to me!



Now in fairness to all Christians, including fundies, I do want to point out that 2 Peter was widely rejected among early “orthodox” Christians. This fact is reported by the Church historian Eusebius of Caesarea (Church History, 3.3.1). Any intelligent reader can see that this text was not written by Peter, and is a poorly contrived forgery. The fraudulent nature of the text appears most obvious in chapter 3, where the author addresses a crisis which could have occurred only after all the Apostles had died – and Jesus had not yet returned before the end of the age as prophesied. In the Gospel of Matthew Jesus repeatedly promises Peter and the other disciples that he will return before the end of their “generation” (e.g. Matthew 10:23, 16:8, 24:34); whereas in 2 Peter, “Peter” tells his readers that a “day with the Lord is as a thousand years” meaning obviously that the end is not coming at the end of Peter’s generation (2 Peter 3:8, cf. Mt. op. cit.). Certainly this is not what Jesus promised to Peter in Matthew. Our author “Peter” also refers to Paul’s letters as “scripture” (2 Peter 3:15-16) which is also highly dubious, and obviously refers to later Gnostics or Marcionites who had made a canon of Paul’s letters.



In Eusebius’s day many “orthodox” Christians believed that 2 Peter was a forgery that did not belong in the Canon. This text is not quoted in any Gnostic tradition at all. (On the historical record 2 Peter does not appear until the third century with Cyprian and Origen, and the latter mentions that the epistle was disputed; Eusebius, ibid., 6:25; Nicene and post-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pp. 133 fn. 4, 273.)



There is yet another book in the New Testament that makes subtle references to Lucifer, and with stunning theological implications. I refer to the Revelation of John. This book has a significant theme regarding the “morning star.” Here “Jesus” says cryptically to his readers among the seven churches that He will give them the “morning star” (Rev. 2:28). And then, at the end, in Revelation 22:16, Jesus reveals himself to be the “root of David” and the “bright morning star.” This interpretation is confirmed in the following conservative Christian sources: The New Living Translation of the New Testament, published by Tyndale House (1996), quotes Jesus as saying “I am the bright morning star” (NLT). Matthew Henry’s Whole Bible Commentary says of this passage: “He is the fountain of all light, the bright and the morning star, and as such has given to his churches this morning light of prophecy, to assure them of the light of that perfect day which is approaching.” http://www.biblecommentor.com/revelation/22-16.htm (Numerous commentaries at this link agree that Jesus is identified with the morning star.) The liberal “history of religions” scholar Wilhelm Bousset also believed that Jesus was identified with the morning star “Lucifer” in Rev. 22:16 (Kyrios Christos, pg. 349, fn. 410). Helena Blavatsky, the modern occultist and founder of the Theosophical society, also believed that Jesus was identified with the morning star, i.e. “Lucifer”, in Rev. 22:16. http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/WhatsInAName.htm From these diverse sources, whether evangelical Christian, liberal scholarship, or modern occult, there is agreement that in Revelation 22:16 Jesus proclaims to be the “bright morning star.” This is the last great lesson that is revealed to us in the “orthodox” canon: Jesus, the Son of God, is the bright morning star.



Of special note is that the words “bright morning star” run parallel to the terminology in the Hebrew text of Isaiah 14:12 where the word “Heylel” is used (הֵילֵל). Heylel literally means bright morning star (Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, Hebrew/Chaldee Lex. #1966, cf. #1984). Among the Greek speaking Christians in the Greek cities such as Ephesus and Pergamos the “bright morning star” would right away bring to mind the god “Lucifer” or Phosphoros (cf. Plutarch, Moralia, 925A, 927C). And the fact that the Revelation of John is an esoteric book clothed in symbolism only serves to make this interpretation all the more obvious. Jesus is revealing a secret to John: He is the “bright morning star”; He is identifying himself with Lucifer. This is the inevitable consequence of the fact that this writer chose to identify his savior with the “bright morning star.” (We need not assume that the Revelation of John is an authentic message from Jesus. I’ll leave that to the fundies.)



So, in the Revelation (Apocalypse) of John “Jesus” is revealing an important secret to this writer: He is essentially saying to him that “I am Lucifer.” Again, in the time period and culture in which the Revelation of John was written, it was common knowledge that the morning star was named Lucifer or Phosphoros. The Revelation of John makes a connection between Jesus and Lucifer. And the Greek wording for “bright morning star” runs parallel with the Hebrew, as I have shown above. Compound this with the fact that in the Latin Vulgate the translator Jerome has no scruple about using the name “Lucifer”–the name of Satan–in both Isaiah 14:12 and 2 Peter 1:19. This leads me to raise the question of whether, perhaps, there was some Luciferian cabal within early Christianity. On top of this is that there was an “ultra-orthodox” Catholic priest named after Lucifer (i.e. Lucifer of Cagliari http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410b.htm). And then, later, the Catholic Church adopted “Easter” as the name for its Paschal observance. Again, “Easter” is believed to originate from the worship of the dawn goddess, who is the mother of Lucifer.



Why is early Christian “orthodoxy” so at ease with the name of Lucifer? Can all this simply be a coincidence? It seems to me that the name and legacy of Lucifer is branded on both the “orthodox” canon and the “tradition” that follows it. By comparison I search in vain for references to Lucifer in ancient Gnostic writings or traditions.



This whole predicament is created by the fact that Fundy Christians believe that there is an evil being named “Lucifer.” And this is compounded by the fact that Fundies place their faith and hopes on dubious books like 2 Peter and the Revelation of John. The Church historian Eusebius points out that the Revelation of John was also rejected by many early Catholics (Church History, 3.25, 28; 5.25). Scholar Bruce Metzger documents the fact that the Revelation of John was absent from many early canon lists in the Catholic Church (B. Metzger, The Canon of the New Testament, pg. 209f.). Anyone with common sense would of course reject and condemn the Revelation of John. The most obvious reason is that the Revelation of John contains prophecies which are obviously false. This problem appears right away in the opening sentence: “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly come to pass...for the time is at hand” (Rev. 1:1-3. Emphasis added). Let us note also the words of “Jesus” in Rev. 22:12 and 20 “Behold, I come quickly” and also “Surely, I come quickly.” Yeah right!



I thank God that this book of dark prophecies is false. But that doesn’t make the threat go away. Fundies believe in this book, and with all their hearts they want the terrible events in this book to come to pass. They believe that this fulfillment will validate their beliefs and somehow add something to their empty lives. The Fundies will no more let go of this book, and the lies that are in it, then they will let go of the delusion that “Lucifer” is the name of the devil. The reality of course is that there was no wicked “Lucifer” in early Christianity. This is why Lucifer’s name appears in Christian tradition: because the gentile church assigned no significance to itand neither did the Gnostics. Thus when fundies rant about “Lucifer” today, they are in fact casting a shadow on the “orthodox” Christians who came before them.



Now of course I am telling only one side of the story. It would seem simple enough for an intelligent person to admit that there is no evil being named Lucifer. Lucifer is just a name from ancient Roman mythology. Lucifer is not even one of the major gods; he is a minor god. This being said, there is another crowd of people out there, profoundly different from the fundies, but who also profess some belief or doctrine regarding Lucifer. Here is an example from the famous New Age pioneer and founder of the Theosophical Society, Helena Blavatsky:



“In this case it is but natural–even from the dead letter standpoint–to view Satan, the Serpent of Genesis, as the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind. For it is he who was the “Harbinger of Light”, bright radiant Lucifer, who opened the eyes of the automaton created by Jehovah…” And also: “And now it stands proven that Satan, or the Red Fiery Dragon, the “Lord of Phosphorus” [2 Peter 1:19]…and Lucifer, or “Light-Bearer”, is in us: it is our Mind – our tempter and Redeemer, our intelligent liberator from pure animalism.” (H. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, vol. II, pp. 243, 513)



My personal opinion regarding this passage is as follows: I believe that the most dangerous lies are the ones that have some element of truth in them. Blavatsky’s statements above are a dangerous misrepresentation of something that is true.



On the other hand, I don’t see anything in Blavatsky’s remarks that are any worse than what is said in 2 Peter 1:19. In 2 Peter 1:19 “Phosphoros” is the morning star and light-bearer who rises in the hearts of “orthodox” Christians with the light of intelligence and understanding. This is similar to what Blavatsky says of Lucifer above: like 2 Peter 1:19 Blavatsky states that Lucifer is in us: Lucifer, the “Lord of Phosphorus”, is the light of intelligence within. And then in Revelations 22:16 “Jesus” claims to be the “bright morning star” and he claims that he will give the “morning star” to his disciples (Rev. 2:28). In 2 Peter 1:19 the morning star is identified specifically with Phosphoros or Lucifer. Together, 2 Peter 1:19 and Revelation 2:28 confirm that the morning star is Phosphoros or Lucifer. Jesus likewise identifies himself with the “morning star” which 2 Peter calls “Phosphoros” or Lucifer.



The implications of these passages become even more interesting when we look at them in light of the “orthodox” Apostolic Tradition. According to Tradition Peter and John were fellow Apostles, and Paul names them as the “pillars” of the Jerusalem Church (Gal. 2). Orthodox tradition insists that Peter wrote 2 Peter, and that John wrote the Revelation. If this is so, then we must acknowledge that both Peter and John share a doctrine regarding the morning star. John mentions the “morning star” and Peter acknowledges that the morning star is “Phosphoros” or, again, Lucifer. Thus you fundy Christians must acknowledge that your own Apostles had ties to Lucifer.



As I look over these facts, and how fundies want to interpret them, I must admit that Christian fundamentalism can be regarded as a species of Theosophy on par with the Theosophical Society. The Theosophists believe that Satan is really a good entity whose real name is Lucifer. In a similar way, fundy Christians refuse to accept the good Father of Jesus Christ and proclaim instead that the supreme God is Jehovah, who in turn admits himself to be the creator of evil: “I form the light and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil…” (Isaiah 45:7) Yet in the Apostles we read: “God is light, and in him is no darkness at all” (1 Jn. 1:5); and Jesus himself proclaimed: “O righteous Father, the world hath not known you.” Both John the Apostle and John the Baptist agree that “No man has seen God at any time.” (Jn. 1:18, 1 Jn. 4:12)



When all of this information is put together what else can we do but conclude that fundy Christians themselves reject the truth of the Gospel and worship Lucifer? It is not my belief that Lucifer exists. This is what the fundies and the Theosophists agree on. Fundies also insist on believing in the false prophecies of Revelation and wishing for the most ugly things. Fundy Christians willfully believe in lies, and their Savior is Lucifer. I think there is room for criticism of the Theosophists as well. I find it incredible that Helena Blavatsky believes that she can do justice to the truth with names like “Satan” and “Lucifer” and the “Lord of Phosphorus.” It is ironic to see this thread of spiritual poverty that runs through the center of Blavatsky’s tremendous erudition.



The lesson to be learned in all this is that Lucifer is a false-god. Lucifer is a symbol of misguided dreams, false hopes, and intellectual vanity. –jw





Note on the Naassenes



1] There was one Gnostic sect which was known for revering the “serpent.” This sect was known as the “Ophites” or the Naassenes (NAAS is transliterated from the Hebrew word for “serpent” nachash: הנחש). The Catholic Father Hippolytus reported at length on the Naassenes in his treatise The Refutation of All Heresies, 5:1-5. In this lengthy report Hippolytus could provide no evidence that the Naassenes derived their doctrine of the Serpent from Genesis. Hippolytus reports on another sect called the Peratea, which based its doctrine of the serpent on John 3:14 where Jesus said “As Moses lifted up the Serpent, so the Son of man must be lifted up; that whoever shall believe in him shall have eternal life” (ibid., 5:11). In Irenaeus’s account of the Naassenes he reports that they believed that the serpent in Eden was a rebellious son of Yaldabaoth, and was distinguished from the “Christ who is above” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1.30.5, 11).

Among Gnostic systems in general there is no consensus that the serpent in the garden is divine or good. This is a popular myth that is based on the scurrilous accusations of the Catholic Fathers who compare Gnostic systems, and gnosis, with the Serpent and the Tree of Knowledge in Eden.


here is just a small bit of whjat is out there
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:04 AM
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Iamthefool is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.Iamthefool is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.Iamthefool is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.
Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

I found the following information, (Google Dip Herp):

"Lucifer is a poetic name for the "morning star", a close translation of the Greek eosphoros, the "dawn-bringer" (son of Eos, "dawn"), which appears in the Odyssey and in Hesiod's Theogony.

The link where I found this also refers to the Roman and Isaias origins:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer#Rom…

I think he is also related to the Greek Mythology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phospheros
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:09 AM
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liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.
Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post
Please show me a reference for this.

A textbook or something. Go ahead. Find it. Use your Google.

I'll wait here.








OK, no, I won't wait here. This is an online forum; my waiting here would be silly. But I do want to see your reference for the "Roman god Lucifer".

Back to the subject: Long Island Sound got battered, but I haven't heard a word about Fire Island! Is it still there? Did God remove it? Does anyone know?


Phosphorus (morning star)

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A 2nd-century sculpture of the Moon-goddess Selene accompanied by perhaps Phosphorus and Hesperus: the corresponding Latin names are Luna, Lucifer and Vesper.



Stanisław Wyspiański: Eos, Phosphoros, Hesperos, Helios, black-coloured pencil drawing, The National Museum in Warsaw, 1897


"Eosphoros" redirects here. For the episode of the television drama series, see Eosphoros (Law & Order: Criminal Intent).
Phosphorus (Greek Φωσφόρος Phōsphoros), a name meaning "Light-Bringer", is the Morning Star, the planet Venus in its morning appearance. Φαοσφόρος (Phaosphoros) and Φαεσφόρος (Phaesphoros) are forms of the same name in some Greek dialects.
Another Greek name for the Morning Star is Ἑωσφόρος (Heōsphoros), which means "Dawn-Bringer". The form Eosphorus is sometimes met in English, as if from Ἠωσφόρος (Ēōsphoros), which is not actually found in Greek literature,[1] but would be the form that Ἑωσφόρος would have in some dialects. As an adjective, the Greek word is applied in the sense of "light-bringing" to, for instance, the dawn, the god Dionysos, pine torches, the day; and in the sense of "torch-bearing" as an epithet of several god and goddesses, especially Hecate but also of Artemis/Diana and Hephaestus.[2]
The Latin word lucifer, corresponding to Greek φωσφόρος, was used as a name for the morning star and thus appeared in the Vulgate translation of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל (helel) - meaning Venus as the brilliant, bright or shining one - in Isaiah 14:12, where the Septuagint Greek version uses, not Φωσφόρος, but Ἑωσφόρος. As a translation of the same Hebrew word the King James Version gave "Lucifer", a name often understood as a reference to Satan. Modern translations of the same passage render the Hebrew word instead as "morning star", "daystar", "shining one" or "shining star". In Revelation 22:16, Jesus is referred to as the morning star, but not as lucifer in Latin, nor as φωσφόρος in the original Greek text, which instead has ὁ ἀστὴρ ὁ λαμπρὸς ὁ πρωϊνός, literally: the star the bright of the morning.
Contents




[hide] [edit] Venus

The morning star is an appearance of the planet Venus, an inferior planet, meaning that its orbit lies between that of the Earth and the Sun. Depending on the orbital locations of both Venus and Earth, it can be seen in the eastern morning sky for an hour or so before the Sun rises and dims it, or in the western evening sky for an hour or so after the Sun sets, when Venus itself then sets. It is the brightest object in the sky after the Sun and the Moon, outshining the planets Saturn and Jupiter but, while these rise high in the sky, Venus never does. This may lie behind myths about deities associated with the morning star proudly striving for the highest place among the gods and being cast down.[3]
[edit] Mythology


Hesperus as Personification of the Evening by Anton Raphael Mengs, Palacete de la Moncloa, Madrid, 1765


In Greek mythology, Hesiod calls Phosphorus a son of Astraeus and Eos,[4] but other say of Cephalus and Eos, or of Atlas.[5]
The Latin poet Ovid, speaking of Phosphorus and Hesperus (the Evening Star, the evening appearance of the planet Venus) as identical, makes him the father of Daedalion.[6] Ovid also makes him the father of Ceyx,[7] while the Latin grammarian Servius makes him the father of the Hesperides or of Hesperis[5]
While at an early stage the Morning Star (called Phosphorus and other names) and the Evening Star (referred to by names such as Hesperus) were thought of as two celestial objects, the Greeks accepted that the two were the same, but they seem to have continued to treat the two mythological entities as distinct. Halbertal and Margalit interpret this as indicating that they did not identify the star with the god or gods of mythology "embodied" in the star.[8]
[edit] Frege's Puzzle

In the philosophy of language, "Hesperus is Phosphorus" is a famous sentence in relation to the semantics of proper names. Gottlob Frege used the terms "the evening star" (der Abendstern) and "the morning star" (der Morgenstern) to illustrate his distinction between sense and reference, and subsequent philosophers changed the example to "Hesperus is Phosphorus" so that it utilized proper names. Saul Kripke used the sentence to demonstrate that the knowledge of something necessary (in this case the identity of Hesperus and Phosphorus) could be discoverable rather than known a priori. On this question see Frege's Puzzle.
Latin literature

The Latin word corresponding to Greek "Phosphorus" is "Lucifer". It is used in its astronomical sense both in prose[9] and poetry.[10] Poets sometimes personify the star, placing it in a mythological context.[11]


One of the favorite rumors that fundy Christians like to spread against the Gnostics is that they supposedly worship Lucifer the light-bearer. Supposedly Gnostics worship this secret fallen angel of light who also challenged Jehovah in the form of the Serpent in the Garden of Eden.



Now it is true that Gnostics typically don’t regard the Serpent in Eden in a negative light: but this is based on philosophical considerations and not on the literalistic proposition that the serpent in the garden should be venerated [1]. But of course I don’t expect fundies to understand issues of such intellectual complexity. In the eyes of fundies if you don’t simply believe their way then you’re a Satanist. And if you happen to believe in something that is really complex, then they’ll label you a Luciferian. The Luciferian label is often reserved for those people who are not overtly evil the way Satanists aspire to be. The Luciferians are those people who maintain a form of virtue and piety that is directed in opposition to the “Creator” i.e. Jehovah. In the eyes of fundies Luciferianism is like Satan Lite; it’s Satanism for clean people. (I have personally had these rationalizations and categories used on me by ‘fundy’ Christians.)



Certainly I cannot speak for all Gnostics in regard to the “Lucifer” issue. I can only speak for myself and for what I know about the Gnostic tradition and the history of religious ideas. I know for a fact that “Lucifer” originally was the name of a god in ancient Roman mythology. Lucifer was the son of the dawn goddess named Aurora; and the Romans named the planet we call “Venus” after him. Among the Romans Lucifer was identified with the morning star; and the word Lucifer literally means “light-bearer.” Among the Greeks Lucifer corresponded to Eosphoros in classical Greek, and to “Phosphoros” in later common Greek; again both names mean “light-bearer.” Eosphoros was the son of the dawn goddess whom the Greeks called Eos. (Note: I suspect that “Eos” is the source of the name for the Germanic dawn goddess festival “Eostre” which was celebrated in the spring. This in turn was the source of our word “Easter.” Webster’s New World Dictionary specifically identifies the word “Easter” as a name for the “dawn goddess.” If all this is correct then it appears that “orthodox” tradition has inadvertently named its Paschal observance after the mother of Eosphoros, a.k.a. Lucifer.)



The biblical origin of Lucifer begins in Isaiah 14:12, “How you are fallen from heaven O Lucifer, son of the morning!” This quote is from the King James, but the Hebrew text says “How you have fallen from heaven O morning star, son of the dawn!” Note that the Hebrew text does not contain the proper name of any god. I have been unable to determine if the ancient Israelites actually identified the morning star with any angel or god. Among Semitic cultures in general the morning star was identified with the god Azizos (Azazel?). It is in the Greek Old Testament that the morning star was first identified with the name of a god. Apparently the words “son of the dawn” reminded the Hellenistic Jewish translators of Eosphoros in Greek tradition. Eosphoros is the Greek equivalent of Lucifer, and this was the source from which “Lucifer” entered into both Latin and English translations of the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments (see below).



Having set forth some basic historical facts (and theories) regarding this name, I want to talk about the role of Lucifer in ancient Gnostic theology and myth. The simple fact here is that the Gnostics never used the names “Lucifer” or “Eosphoros” (or Phosphoros) in the age in which they lived. More important is that in the Gnostic scheme of the cosmos, Lucifer, the planet “Venus”, was identified with the seven celestial archons that governed the cosmos. The Gnostics regarded these as little more than fallen angels or demons. This is a common pattern shared by all Gnostic systems. Various Gnostic treatises provide lists of the seven powers that govern the cosmos (e.g. Apocryphon of John, 10-11, On the Origin of the World, 101). These names are meant to imply that the godhead of the Old Testament is divided into seven powers that correspond (like the pagan gods) to the seven days of the week. In the varying Gnostic lists it appears that the sixth power is named after “Adonin” or “Oraios”, or also: Oreus (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1.30.11). The Anglican scholar Wigan Harvey identified the name Oreus as meaning “Light” (Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pg. 355, fn. 1; cf. Origin of the World, 101). If this is correct then I believe it’s probable that the names Oreus/Oraios may be an obscure reference to the “light-bearer.” In the Apocryphon of John this may correspond to “Adonin” which is given as the name of the sixth power (ibid., 10-11).



The essential point I’m trying to make is that “Lucifer” is a name for one of the planets which the Gnostics identified with the celestial archons. The Gnostics did not identify these archons with the Godhead. In Gnostic myth these powers guarded the celestial spheres that the soul had to travel through in order to return to the Pleroma. These archons were considered to be the servants of the cosmic villain Yaldabaoth. Later, in the Middle Ages, the Gnostic Cathars identified the Rex Mundi (world ruler) as Lucifer. It is highly significant that the Cathars regarded Lucifer as the Enemy, and as the evil god behind the papal theocracy (Edward Peters, Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, pg. 133f. W. Barnstone, M. Meyer, The Gnostic Bible, pg. 733f.).



Historically the Gnostics had no concept of the “morning star” in their symbolism. There is no “light-bearer” in ancient Gnostic tradition. If Gnostics today refer to Lucifer or the “light-bearer” then this is pure hyperbole. In modern Gnostic circles Lucifer is often equated with Prometheus. In Greek mythology Prometheus was a light-bearer who brought the knowledge of fire to humans in order to raise them from their impoverished condition. Zeus became jealous because the knowledge of fire-making, and other skills and arts, had been given to Humans. This is the common motif that is behind the concept of Lucifer today among Gnostics and atheists. Hence Lucifer-Prometheus is not an evil being. He is an enlightened rebel who opposes the jealousy and severity of Zeus/Jehovah. In this context Jesus, in the Gnostic tradition, can be compared to Lucifer-Prometheus. In like manner Jesus brings the Light/Knowledge of the Pleroma down to human kind. Now again, in comparing Jesus to Lucifer-Prometheus I’m describing a modern metaphor that I have heard used by other Gnostics. The ancient Gnostics never made this comparison in any extant text; nor do the Catholic Fathers ever accuse the Gnostics of revering Lucifer, or of identifying Jesus with Lucifer – either as a metaphor, or as literal doctrine.



Now some fundies may answer me by saying that the ancient Gnostics did not mention Lucifer because they kept it secret and that this was the Gnostic “arcanum arcanorum.” I have two answers to this: 1) The Gnostic contempt for Jehovah was a poorly kept secret; and I think that the case can be made that the Gnostics did a poor job of keeping any of their secrets. 2) My second answer is that the Gnostics would have no reason to keep anything secret that their “orthodox” Christian counterparts used openly anyway. And this is where we come to the real irony of the history of Lucifer. In contrast with the Gnostics, the “orthodox” Christians did have their own “morning star” and “light bearer.” And these symbols appear in sources that were not used in Gnostic tradition. If fundies want to use the name “Lucifer” as the name of Satan, and as a label for people like me, then it is only fair to point out that this label works both ways.



Incredibly, Lucifer the light-bearer does appear in “orthodox” Christian tradition, and in the canon. He appears in the Latin and Greek texts of 2 Peter 1:19. Here is the Latin text of the passage side by side with Isaiah 14:12 where the word “Lucifer”–the name of Satan–also occurs.



Isaiah 14:12,



“Quomodo cecidisti de caelo LUCIFER qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes.”



2 Peter 1:19b,



“… quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et LUCIFER oriatur in cordibus vestris.” (See below for English translation.)



These passages can be accessed online at this link http://www.drbo.org/lvb/



Now, in making sense of this issue I am raising questions about how Fundies read and translate the scriptures, and not the history behind what these scriptures say. Fundies call Gnostics “Luciferians” and that “Lucifer” is the name of Satan. Fundies will even cite Isaiah 14:12 which for them proves that “Lucifer” is the name of Satan. And yet here this same evil name is used in a positive way in the New Testament. The reason we find the name Lucifer in the Latin text of 2 Peter 1:19 is because it was translated from the earlier Greek text which contains the name “Phosphoros.” Again, Phosphoros is the later form of Eosphoros in Hellenistic Greek. At this link the readers can see where Phosphoros is the name of a pagan god in Greek mythology. http://www.theoi.com/Titan/AsterEosphoros.html (In the sources cited note that Eosphoros and Phosphoros are used interchangeably.)



The fact that Greeks and Romans identified Lucifer and Phosphoros as the same god can be seen most dramatically in this passage from the famous Roman statesman and orator Cicero, from his treatise On the Nature of the Gods:



“The lowest of the five wandering stars, and the one nearest the earth, is the planet of Venus, which is called Φωσϕόρος (Phosphoros –jw) in Greek, and Lucifer in Latin, …it completes its course in a year, traversing the zodiac both latitudinally and longitudinally, as is also done by the planets above it, and on whichever side of the sun it is, it never departs more than two signs’ distance from it. (21) This constancy, then, among the stars, this marked agreement of times through the whole of eternity, though the movements are so various, I cannot understand as existing without mind and reason and forethought, and since we find that these qualities are possessed by the heavenly bodies, we cannot but assign to those bodies themselves their place among the number of divine beings.” (De Natura Deorum, 2:20-21)



This passage can be seen online text at the following link



http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=5 39&chapter=82062&layout=html&Itemid=27



Cicero identified Phosphoros with Lucifer, whom he presumed to be a “divine” being. Phosphoros is the very name that appears in the Greek text of 2 Peter 1:19, which I will quote here in English. The Greek text can be seen at the link below.



“We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawns, and the day star (Phosphoros) arise in your hearts. (20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”



http://www.greekbible.com/index.php



This passage warns against the method of reading private esoteric interpretations into scripture, as is done through the allegorical method. I believe this passage is aimed at Gnostics; and the verse which follows appears to be an attack on the Gnostics “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who secretly shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them…” (2 Peter 2:1; emphasis added.)



2 Peter portrays “Phosphoros” as a symbolic adversary of the heretics (Gnostics) who secretly brought in heretical teachings. Here “Phosphoros” is the light bearer who symbolizes the true understanding of prophecy, and the proper use of the prophetic spirit (i.e. the “Holy Ghost”). It is incredible to me that this name “Phosphoros”, which is a name for Satan, can be used in a passage as a symbol of the truth of the Holy Spirit. What can the name of a pagan celestial deity possibly have in common with the Holy Spirit? The meaning is that if the Christian reads Bible prophecy in light of the Holy Ghost who inspired those scriptures, then “Phosphoros” will rise in the hearts of the readers. I don’t know of any Gnostic writings that blaspheme this bad! I’m a Gnostic, and this is offensive even to me!



Now in fairness to all Christians, including fundies, I do want to point out that 2 Peter was widely rejected among early “orthodox” Christians. This fact is reported by the Church historian Eusebius of Caesarea (Church History, 3.3.1). Any intelligent reader can see that this text was not written by Peter, and is a poorly contrived forgery. The fraudulent nature of the text appears most obvious in chapter 3, where the author addresses a crisis which could have occurred only after all the Apostles had died – and Jesus had not yet returned before the end of the age as prophesied. In the Gospel of Matthew Jesus repeatedly promises Peter and the other disciples that he will return before the end of their “generation” (e.g. Matthew 10:23, 16:8, 24:34); whereas in 2 Peter, “Peter” tells his readers that a “day with the Lord is as a thousand years” meaning obviously that the end is not coming at the end of Peter’s generation (2 Peter 3:8, cf. Mt. op. cit.). Certainly this is not what Jesus promised to Peter in Matthew. Our author “Peter” also refers to Paul’s letters as “scripture” (2 Peter 3:15-16) which is also highly dubious, and obviously refers to later Gnostics or Marcionites who had made a canon of Paul’s letters.



In Eusebius’s day many “orthodox” Christians believed that 2 Peter was a forgery that did not belong in the Canon. This text is not quoted in any Gnostic tradition at all. (On the historical record 2 Peter does not appear until the third century with Cyprian and Origen, and the latter mentions that the epistle was disputed; Eusebius, ibid., 6:25; Nicene and post-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pp. 133 fn. 4, 273.)



There is yet another book in the New Testament that makes subtle references to Lucifer, and with stunning theological implications. I refer to the Revelation of John. This book has a significant theme regarding the “morning star.” Here “Jesus” says cryptically to his readers among the seven churches that He will give them the “morning star” (Rev. 2:28). And then, at the end, in Revelation 22:16, Jesus reveals himself to be the “root of David” and the “bright morning star.” This interpretation is confirmed in the following conservative Christian sources: The New Living Translation of the New Testament, published by Tyndale House (1996), quotes Jesus as saying “I am the bright morning star” (NLT). Matthew Henry’s Whole Bible Commentary says of this passage: “He is the fountain of all light, the bright and the morning star, and as such has given to his churches this morning light of prophecy, to assure them of the light of that perfect day which is approaching.” http://www.biblecommentor.com/revelation/22-16.htm (Numerous commentaries at this link agree that Jesus is identified with the morning star.) The liberal “history of religions” scholar Wilhelm Bousset also believed that Jesus was identified with the morning star “Lucifer” in Rev. 22:16 (Kyrios Christos, pg. 349, fn. 410). Helena Blavatsky, the modern occultist and founder of the Theosophical society, also believed that Jesus was identified with the morning star, i.e. “Lucifer”, in Rev. 22:16. http://www.blavatsky.net/blavatsky/arts/WhatsInAName.htm From these diverse sources, whether evangelical Christian, liberal scholarship, or modern occult, there is agreement that in Revelation 22:16 Jesus proclaims to be the “bright morning star.” This is the last great lesson that is revealed to us in the “orthodox” canon: Jesus, the Son of God, is the bright morning star.



Of special note is that the words “bright morning star” run parallel to the terminology in the Hebrew text of Isaiah 14:12 where the word “Heylel” is used (הֵילֵל). Heylel literally means bright morning star (Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, Hebrew/Chaldee Lex. #1966, cf. #1984). Among the Greek speaking Christians in the Greek cities such as Ephesus and Pergamos the “bright morning star” would right away bring to mind the god “Lucifer” or Phosphoros (cf. Plutarch, Moralia, 925A, 927C). And the fact that the Revelation of John is an esoteric book clothed in symbolism only serves to make this interpretation all the more obvious. Jesus is revealing a secret to John: He is the “bright morning star”; He is identifying himself with Lucifer. This is the inevitable consequence of the fact that this writer chose to identify his savior with the “bright morning star.” (We need not assume that the Revelation of John is an authentic message from Jesus. I’ll leave that to the fundies.)



So, in the Revelation (Apocalypse) of John “Jesus” is revealing an important secret to this writer: He is essentially saying to him that “I am Lucifer.” Again, in the time period and culture in which the Revelation of John was written, it was common knowledge that the morning star was named Lucifer or Phosphoros. The Revelation of John makes a connection between Jesus and Lucifer. And the Greek wording for “bright morning star” runs parallel with the Hebrew, as I have shown above. Compound this with the fact that in the Latin Vulgate the translator Jerome has no scruple about using the name “Lucifer”–the name of Satan–in both Isaiah 14:12 and 2 Peter 1:19. This leads me to raise the question of whether, perhaps, there was some Luciferian cabal within early Christianity. On top of this is that there was an “ultra-orthodox” Catholic priest named after Lucifer (i.e. Lucifer of Cagliari http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410b.htm). And then, later, the Catholic Church adopted “Easter” as the name for its Paschal observance. Again, “Easter” is believed to originate from the worship of the dawn goddess, who is the mother of Lucifer.



Why is early Christian “orthodoxy” so at ease with the name of Lucifer? Can all this simply be a coincidence? It seems to me that the name and legacy of Lucifer is branded on both the “orthodox” canon and the “tradition” that follows it. By comparison I search in vain for references to Lucifer in ancient Gnostic writings or traditions.



This whole predicament is created by the fact that Fundy Christians believe that there is an evil being named “Lucifer.” And this is compounded by the fact that Fundies place their faith and hopes on dubious books like 2 Peter and the Revelation of John. The Church historian Eusebius points out that the Revelation of John was also rejected by many early Catholics (Church History, 3.25, 28; 5.25). Scholar Bruce Metzger documents the fact that the Revelation of John was absent from many early canon lists in the Catholic Church (B. Metzger, The Canon of the New Testament, pg. 209f.). Anyone with common sense would of course reject and condemn the Revelation of John. The most obvious reason is that the Revelation of John contains prophecies which are obviously false. This problem appears right away in the opening sentence: “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly come to pass...for the time is at hand” (Rev. 1:1-3. Emphasis added). Let us note also the words of “Jesus” in Rev. 22:12 and 20 “Behold, I come quickly” and also “Surely, I come quickly.” Yeah right!



I thank God that this book of dark prophecies is false. But that doesn’t make the threat go away. Fundies believe in this book, and with all their hearts they want the terrible events in this book to come to pass. They believe that this fulfillment will validate their beliefs and somehow add something to their empty lives. The Fundies will no more let go of this book, and the lies that are in it, then they will let go of the delusion that “Lucifer” is the name of the devil. The reality of course is that there was no wicked “Lucifer” in early Christianity. This is why Lucifer’s name appears in Christian tradition: because the gentile church assigned no significance to itand neither did the Gnostics. Thus when fundies rant about “Lucifer” today, they are in fact casting a shadow on the “orthodox” Christians who came before them.



Now of course I am telling only one side of the story. It would seem simple enough for an intelligent person to admit that there is no evil being named Lucifer. Lucifer is just a name from ancient Roman mythology. Lucifer is not even one of the major gods; he is a minor god. This being said, there is another crowd of people out there, profoundly different from the fundies, but who also profess some belief or doctrine regarding Lucifer. Here is an example from the famous New Age pioneer and founder of the Theosophical Society, Helena Blavatsky:



“In this case it is but natural–even from the dead letter standpoint–to view Satan, the Serpent of Genesis, as the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind. For it is he who was the “Harbinger of Light”, bright radiant Lucifer, who opened the eyes of the automaton created by Jehovah…” And also: “And now it stands proven that Satan, or the Red Fiery Dragon, the “Lord of Phosphorus” [2 Peter 1:19]…and Lucifer, or “Light-Bearer”, is in us: it is our Mind – our tempter and Redeemer, our intelligent liberator from pure animalism.” (H. Blavatsky, The Secret Doctrine, vol. II, pp. 243, 513)



My personal opinion regarding this passage is as follows: I believe that the most dangerous lies are the ones that have some element of truth in them. Blavatsky’s statements above are a dangerous misrepresentation of something that is true.



On the other hand, I don’t see anything in Blavatsky’s remarks that are any worse than what is said in 2 Peter 1:19. In 2 Peter 1:19 “Phosphoros” is the morning star and light-bearer who rises in the hearts of “orthodox” Christians with the light of intelligence and understanding. This is similar to what Blavatsky says of Lucifer above: like 2 Peter 1:19 Blavatsky states that Lucifer is in us: Lucifer, the “Lord of Phosphorus”, is the light of intelligence within. And then in Revelations 22:16 “Jesus” claims to be the “bright morning star” and he claims that he will give the “morning star” to his disciples (Rev. 2:28). In 2 Peter 1:19 the morning star is identified specifically with Phosphoros or Lucifer. Together, 2 Peter 1:19 and Revelation 2:28 confirm that the morning star is Phosphoros or Lucifer. Jesus likewise identifies himself with the “morning star” which 2 Peter calls “Phosphoros” or Lucifer.



The implications of these passages become even more interesting when we look at them in light of the “orthodox” Apostolic Tradition. According to Tradition Peter and John were fellow Apostles, and Paul names them as the “pillars” of the Jerusalem Church (Gal. 2). Orthodox tradition insists that Peter wrote 2 Peter, and that John wrote the Revelation. If this is so, then we must acknowledge that both Peter and John share a doctrine regarding the morning star. John mentions the “morning star” and Peter acknowledges that the morning star is “Phosphoros” or, again, Lucifer. Thus you fundy Christians must acknowledge that your own Apostles had ties to Lucifer.



As I look over these facts, and how fundies want to interpret them, I must admit that Christian fundamentalism can be regarded as a species of Theosophy on par with the Theosophical Society. The Theosophists believe that Satan is really a good entity whose real name is Lucifer. In a similar way, fundy Christians refuse to accept the good Father of Jesus Christ and proclaim instead that the supreme God is Jehovah, who in turn admits himself to be the creator of evil: “I form the light and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil…” (Isaiah 45:7) Yet in the Apostles we read: “God is light, and in him is no darkness at all” (1 Jn. 1:5); and Jesus himself proclaimed: “O righteous Father, the world hath not known you.” Both John the Apostle and John the Baptist agree that “No man has seen God at any time.” (Jn. 1:18, 1 Jn. 4:12)



When all of this information is put together what else can we do but conclude that fundy Christians themselves reject the truth of the Gospel and worship Lucifer? It is not my belief that Lucifer exists. This is what the fundies and the Theosophists agree on. Fundies also insist on believing in the false prophecies of Revelation and wishing for the most ugly things. Fundy Christians willfully believe in lies, and their Savior is Lucifer. I think there is room for criticism of the Theosophists as well. I find it incredible that Helena Blavatsky believes that she can do justice to the truth with names like “Satan” and “Lucifer” and the “Lord of Phosphorus.” It is ironic to see this thread of spiritual poverty that runs through the center of Blavatsky’s tremendous erudition.



The lesson to be learned in all this is that Lucifer is a false-god. Lucifer is a symbol of misguided dreams, false hopes, and intellectual vanity. –jw






Note on the Naassenes




1] There was one Gnostic sect which was known for revering the “serpent.” This sect was known as the “Ophites” or the Naassenes (NAAS is transliterated from the Hebrew word for “serpent” nachash: הנחש). The Catholic Father Hippolytus reported at length on the Naassenes in his treatise The Refutation of All Heresies, 5:1-5. In this lengthy report Hippolytus could provide no evidence that the Naassenes derived their doctrine of the Serpent from Genesis. Hippolytus reports on another sect called the Peratea, which based its doctrine of the serpent on John 3:14 where Jesus said “As Moses lifted up the Serpent, so the Son of man must be lifted up; that whoever shall believe in him shall have eternal life” (ibid., 5:11). In Irenaeus’s account of the Naassenes he reports that they believed that the serpent in Eden was a rebellious son of Yaldabaoth, and was distinguished from the “Christ who is above” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1.30.5, 11).

Among Gnostic systems in general there is no consensus that the serpent in the garden is divine or good. This is a popular myth that is based on the scurrilous accusations of the Catholic Fathers who compare Gnostic systems, and gnosis, with the Serpent and the Tree of Knowledge in Eden.


here is just a small bit of what is out there
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:16 AM
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liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.liveandlove is a sinner who has rejected Christ and tithing to Landover and is on the fast bus to Aeternal Damnation.
Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

sorry did not mean to put it twice ans idk how to do a link, so sorry again
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Pray Hurricane Sandy destroys Fire Island, Statue of Liberty

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Originally Posted by liveandlove View Post
sorry did not mean to put it twice ans idk how to do a link, so sorry again
Please learn how to provide links.

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