[Stella LaForte]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Stella, you seem to be smarter than most atheists. Perhaps some True Logic™ can persuade you? God is infallible. Therefore He can't fail to exist. And btw, since God created everything He is the ultimate authority on everything. And since the Bible was written by God it can't be of questionable veracity.

Thank you, but what is True Logic™?
Ah, that's it. How do you know God exists? Because the Bible says so. How do you know the Bible is true? Because the Bible is infallible. How do you know the Bible is infallible? Because it is God's word. And thusly, the circle opens once more, an endless cycle with no beginning. That is the logic of Christianity, and you straight-up admitted it. Such closed units are logically fallacious, for the proposition to be proved is assumed implicitly or explicitly in one of the premises - in this instance, all of them.

Oh, so now the girl who believes in science accuses me of twisting things? I find this funny seeing how scientists constantly change and twist their theories to fit with what they call 'evidence.' As if there existed any evidence in the world besides the KJV.

Ah, but here's the difference. In science, everything shifts, including the source. If a new theory is proposed, all kinds of repercussions are taken into consideration, and if it is proven correct, the base itself is changed. It's a forever shifting entity, formless, and absorbing all. It is a zone of conflict and upheaval, where the old and the new are constantly at war. It's beautiful, really. However, in Christianity, facts are poured into a rigid, unchanging foundation. Straying too far from the edge of chaos, the complex system becomes rigid, totalitarian. This leads to extinction. Only systems - like science - that remain forever balanced on the edge of chaos can flourish.

How can physical objects have enduring qualities if they are mere mental projections or constructs of my mind? You are being silly, Stella.

If everything is simply a construct of your mind and there is no other existence asides from your consciousness, then indeed nothing could be proven to exist, nor could anything be proven not to exist. You would never know... Although that philosophy is worthless. I in no means advocate such beliefs, and we are speaking hypothetically.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

We know the angle though.
t=the angle between the sun and the earth and the sun and venus.
the distance between the earth and venus=a
the distance between the sun and earth =h

a/cos(t)=h by using elementary trigonometry. SOH CAH TOA

and we solved for the speed of light

Wrong. Again more assumptions.

Cosine is adjacent/hypotenuse. I already said, for argument's sake, we know the adjacent. But you don't know the value of the hypotenuse. The formula is useless.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Thank you, but what is True Logic™?
Ah, that's it. How do you know God exists? Because the Bible says so. How do you know the Bible is true? Because the Bible is infallible. How do you know the Bible is infallible? Because it is God's word. And thusly, the circle opens once more, an endless cycle with no beginning. That is the logic of Christianity, and you straight-up admitted it. Such closed units are logically fallacious, for the proposition to be proved is assumed implicitly or explicitly in one of the premises - in this instance, all of them.

The problem with using the famous circular reasoning argument is that if the Bible is indeed true, your argument will say it's false, and therefore be a useless argument.

Allow me to explain:

Suppose the Bible is true. It is the Word of God. If it said that itself is the Word of God, it would be telling the truth. God did indeed give us the Word and in the Word it says that God wrote it, and would therefore be true.

Now suppose you write a document that said "A giant blue octopus created the world and we know this is true because the giant blue octopus wrote this letter and therefore the document is true." This document would be false. It would be telling a lie.

Now you reason just because your octopus example is false, that the Holy Bible (which is indeed true in this thought experiment) must be false. But you're wrong. Your circular reasoning argument has failed.

Just because you can write something false down doesn't mean everything written down is false. That is the argument you are using to counter the Bible's divine origins.

[Stella LaForte]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Blah Blah Blah. Do you really think God cares?

No. No, he doesn't.

You are one insignificant person in this city. That insignificant city is in an insignificant state, inside one of almost two hundred countries. These insignificant countries have existed for a tiny, completely insignificant blip in the geological time scale. Our solar system is an insignificant part of the outer edges of one of infinite galaxies, in an insignificant universe coexisting with an infinity of constantly-splitting universes - that is the insignificant multiverse we live in. In our dimension, our multiverse is part of an infinity of constantly-splitting multiverses, and so on, and so on. That is not even counting the varying dimensional planes of our incorrectly concieved reality. Amidst all this, we continue to sit in the outermost edge of the Milky Way, making trivial decisions and attempting to govern the complex, anarchistic systems that form the mathematical basis of this universe - and failing. There's no reason to want to help and serve other people- it's not an evolutionary imperative, it's just been imprinted upon us by society from birth. We are assaulted with fictious concepts of morality, and by what we should be doing with our lives. That is the whole point of our constructed laws, morals, and society - to cover the truth amidst lies of spirituality.

Your god does not care.

[Stella LaForte]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

The problem with using the famous circular reasoning argument is that if the Bible is indeed true, your argument will say it's false, and therefore be a useless argument.

Allow me to explain:

Suppose the Bible is true. It is the Word of God. If it said that itself is the Word of God, it would be telling the truth. God did indeed give us the Word and in the Word it says that God wrote it, and would therefore be true.

Now suppose you write a document that said "A giant blue octopus created the world and we know this is true because the giant blue octopus wrote this letter and therefore the document is true." This document would be false. It would be telling a lie.

Now you reason just because your octopus example is false, that the Holy Bible (which is indeed true in this thought experiment) must be false. But you're wrong. Your circular reasoning argument has failed.

Just because you can write something false down doesn't mean everything written down is false. That is the argument you are using to counter the Bible's divine origins.

Incorrect. The two arguements are exactly identical. If you substitute Santa Claus for God, it'll be just as false. If you substitute the giant blue octupus for God, it will be false. If you leave God in, therefore, it is still false. The subject of the logic does not matter.

Also, did you just imply that I am a god-like giant blue octupus? Look back to your original post!

[Lisa H]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

No. No, he doesn't.

You are one insignificant person in this city. That insignificant city is in an insignificant state, inside one of almost two hundred countries. These insignificant countries have existed for a tiny, completely insignificant blip in the geological time scale. Our solar system is an insignificant part of the outer edges of one of infinite galaxies, in an insignificant universe coexisting with an infinity of constantly-splitting universes - that is the insignificant multiverse we live in. In our dimension, our multiverse is part of an infinity of constantly-splitting multiverses, and so on, and so on. That is not even counting the varying dimensional planes of our incorrectly concieved reality. Amidst all this, we continue to sit in the outermost edge of the Milky Way, making trivial decisions and attempting to govern the complex, anarchistic systems that form the mathematical basis of this universe - and failing. There's no reason to want to help and serve other people- it's not an evolutionary imperative, it's just been imprinted upon us by society from birth. We are assaulted with fictious concepts of morality, and by what we should be doing with our lives. That is the whole point of our constructed laws, morals, and society - to cover the truth amidst lies of spirituality.

Your god does not care.

God does care for those that care about Him. This verse sums it up I think.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I think you are forgetting the earth is the center of the universe. This is the way God made it. Everything revolves around the earth.

There are not lies in the Word of God. It is man who does not believe in God that create laws to stop people believing in God.

[Stella LaForte]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

God does care for those that care about. These verse sums it up I think.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I think you are forgetting the earth is the center of the universe. This is the way God made it. Everything revolves around the earth.

There are not lies in the Word of God. It is man who does not believe in God that create laws to stop people believing in God.

Well, that was operating under the assumption that a god did exist. In fact, no such thing does. Religion was invented by man to serve as a little fuzzy blanket they can pull over themselves when the wolves come out at night, and also as a way to contain and control the masses.

And also, uh... the Earth really isn't the centre of the universe. You know that, right? Please, please tell me you're joking.

[Lisa H]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Well, that was operating under the assumption that a god did exist. In fact, no such thing does. Religion was invented by man to serve as a little fuzzy blanket they can pull over themselves when the wolves come out at night, and also as a way to contain and control the masses.

The is no assumption that God exists. It is fact. Even atheists must concede that God sent Jesus to earth. Don't you think it is odd that atheists celebrate the birth and death of Jesus, Christmas and Easter.

And also, uh... the Earth really isn't the centre of the universe. You know that, right? Please, please tell me you're joking.

The earth is the Center of the universe. It is very easily proved. Just watch the sun move across the sky, or the stars move across the night sky. If the earth was not the center of the universe, then sundials would not work.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

Incorrect. The two arguements are exactly identical. If you substitute Santa Claus for God, it'll be just as false. If you substitute the giant blue octupus for God, it will be false. If you leave God in, therefore, it is still false. The subject of the logic does not matter.

Also, did you just imply that I am a god-like giant blue octupus? Look back to your original post!

You are missing the point of the thought experiment. In this hypothetical universe, you are assuming the first claim is true.

In this hypothetical universe, if you substitute Santa Claus, and Santa Claus did create the universe, then it couldn't be false. It would have to be true.

Therefore, you cannot tell whether something is true or false by circular reasoning. It gets you nowhere. Anything is possible.

[Stella LaForte]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

You are missing the point of the thought experiment. In this hypothetical universe, you are assuming the first claim is true.

In this hypothetical universe, if you substitute Santa Claus, and Santa Claus did create the universe, then it couldn't be false. It would have to be true.

Therefore, you cannot tell whether something is true or false by circular reasoning. It gets you nowhere. Anything is possible.

I'm not missing the point. It is a circle of assumption, hence, the name. However, circular logic does not compromise the veracity of the target - it compromises the validity of assumptions and conclusions made off that logic.

A giant blue octopus created the world and we know this is true because the giant blue octopus wrote this letter and therefore the document is true.

From this, we have no idea of knowing whether or not the giant blue octupus really did create the world or not. However, we cannot, from this argument, use the letter the giant blue octupus wrote to prove that he exists. This is the point I was making - that the Bible cannot prove God's existence.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

I'm not missing the point. It is a circle of assumption, hence, the name. However, circular logic does not compromise the veracity of the target - it compromises the validity of assumptions and conclusions made off that logic.

A giant blue octopus created the world and we know this is true because the giant blue octopus wrote this letter and therefore the document is true.

From this, we have no idea of knowing whether or not the giant blue octupus really did create the world or not. However, we cannot, from this argument, use the letter the giant blue octupus wrote to prove that he exists. This is the point I was making - that the Bible cannot prove God's existence.

No, you were making the point that it disproved God's existence.

But, I thank you for coming up with an original response for once.

[Lisa H]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

I'm not missing the point. It is a circle of assumption, hence, the name. However, circular logic does not compromise the veracity of the target - it compromises the validity of assumptions and conclusions made off that logic.

A giant blue octopus created the world and we know this is true because the giant blue octopus wrote this letter and therefore the document is true.

From this, we have no idea of knowing whether or not the giant blue octupus really did create the world or not. However, we cannot, from this argument, use the letter the giant blue octupus wrote to prove that he exists. This is the point I was making - that the Bible cannot prove God's existence.

Darwin said we come from Apes. Scientists started believing him. Then other Scientists started quoting Darwin and the other Scientists. Know it is regarded as a truthful fact that humans came from apes.

The strange thing is that none can actually prove Darwin was correct because scientists claim there is a missing link.

[Aristotle]

The weakness of your argument

Incorrect. The two arguements are exactly identical. If you substitute Santa Claus for God, it'll be just as false. If you substitute the giant blue octupus for God, it will be false. If you leave God in, therefore, it is still false. The subject of the logic does not matter.

Also, did you just imply that I am a god-like giant blue octupus? Look back to your original post!

Your argument starts with a false premise. The blue octopus is a finite being, else it would not be an octopus. Only GOD is infinite, with the infinite power to creat the Universe. If you re-define your octopus to have all the properties of GOD, then you have just assigned another name for GOD.

[ncarroll]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

The is no assumption that God exists. It is fact. Even atheists must concede that God sent Jesus to earth. Don't you think it is odd that atheists celebrate the birth and death of Jesus, Christmas and Easter.



The earth is the Center of the universe. It is very easily proved. Just watch the sun move across the sky, or the stars move across the night sky. If the earth was not the center of the universe, then sundials would not work.

The Pagans celebrated the winter solstice(which the christians renamed christmas) before christ.

[James Dewitt]

Re: The Sun: Millions of miles away?

The Pagans celebrated the winter solstice(which the christians renamed christmas) before christ.

Huh? Christmas is the birthday of Jesus so how could it be called Christmas before Jesus was borne? Thats just retarded.