[GanduHindu]

Powerful two word come back, Sister Mitza.

.... That is quite a challenge coming from someone who does not acknowledge the written work in Christianity.

I enjoy sharp, sarcastic wit just as much as the next person, but I honestly have no idea what dearest Sister meant. In an attempt to understand, I turned to McGraw-Hill's Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. It's a pretty nifty guide, but she must have used a regional colloquialism that's unfamiliar to me.

But please, Mayor, don't misquote me. How many times do I need to repeat that I'm not here to preach Hinduism, but to understand your beliefs in Christianity? You're free to proselytize, which I don't mind, but I simply ask that you slow things down. These concepts take time to absorb, and as a learned Bible scholar, you would know that better than I do.

[Johny Joe Hold]

Which part?

Powerful two word come back, Sister Mitza.

Our new friend, CanNotDoHindu, admonishes us True Christians^tm to open our minds by reading something about one of his gods. That is quite a challenge coming from someone who does not acknowledge the written work in Christianity. In our Bible we learn there were first person encounters with a real God and with a real Jesus. If CanNotDo does not acknowledge this powerful testimony as to real gods that actually exist and admit his Hindu gods are but products of the human imagination, how can his challenge be anything but a kind of humor?

[MitzaLizalor]

That was my message. You can read the Gita with a critical mind, aiming to refute its arguments. But ignoring it entirely, as you have been, will only close off a part of your mind..

Which part?

[GanduHindu]

Hinduer--We here at Landover Baptist are, like Paul, very talented at discernment. It is our calling to point to sin wherever we see it and condemn. We stand ready to help you with whatever of your own sins you would like to share with us. A hint: worshipping false gods.

Thank you. I fully understand your mission, even though I may not agree with it entirely. However, I do understand what you're trying to accomplish.

Allow me to help you with Romans 12:16. It is Paul writing to his Roman congregation. Paul was skilled at discernment. He knew the Romans were not the brightest porch lights on the block. In that passage he was advising them that he, Paul, was the expert on Jesus and they were still novices. He told them to keep it simple and not go beyond their level of understanding. The "Do not be wise in your own opinion" was to apply to the Romans, not to Paul himself.

This is truly a beautiful story, and I wasn't aware of it before.

I can relate to it so well because of a movie I watched called 'Quo Vadis which features Saint "Whither Goest Thou" Peter. Just before the Christians were thrown to the lions, there's a poignant and moving scene where Peter addresses Emperor Nero and his Roman crowd in the spirit of Romans 12:16, as you described. The Romans dismissed him as a madman and later crucified him upside down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ulo21qI4U_U

I wouldn't have been able to relate to your explanation as well if I hadn't seen that movie. This just proves my point: you should read books other than the Bible and watch secular movies when needed to deepen your understanding of what the Bible offers. Keep your mind open and let ideas flow from all directions. That was my message. You can read the Gita with a critical mind, aiming to refute its arguments. But ignoring it entirely, as you have been, will only close off a part of your mind.

But I can't tell you more than that. Every human has the right to accept or reject new ideas.


Thank you for the thoughtful explanation. I found it truly helpful and moving. I can well imagine how Paul must have felt among the Romans. This has certainly increased my respect for all these Apostles.

[Johny Joe Hold]

Hinduer--Thanks for referring to Scripture. It is the bread and butter of Landover Baptist Church. Allow me to help you with Romans 12:16. It is Paul writing to his Roman congregation. Paul was skilled at discernment. He knew the Romans were not the brightest porch lights on the block. In that passage he was advising them that he, Paul, was the expert on Jesus and they were still novices. He told them to keep it simple and not go beyond their level of understanding. The "Do not be wise in your own opinion" was to apply to the Romans, not to Paul himself.

We here at Landover Baptist are, like Paul, very talented at discernment. It is our calling to point to sin wherever we see it and condemn. We stand ready to help you with whatever of your own sins you would like to share with us. A hint: worshipping false gods.

[GanduHindu]

You are the expert on such things and we are glad you are here.

Aw, I'm so touched by your generosity. Is it an official WELCOME then? 😂😂😂😂😂😂

I like another Bible quote, Roman 12:16. I think Jesus was pretty cool for thinking that way.

[GanduHindu]

Mr. Hindu--Please, don't misquote me. I never said we refuse to discuss Hinduism. I only requested we base our discussion on known facts, i.e., gods who have been seen and where these encounters are recorded history. That is, we do not waste our band width here discussing gods that only exist in the minds of followers. It would be unfortunate if the Hindu gods have never reached that level of authenticity. But, I do not know if their existence has been recorded in history or not. You are the expert on such things and we are glad you are here.

I'm comfortable that we start from the assumption that Hinduism is entirely false. I really thought you didn't want to hear anything about Hinduism, which means not quoting from Hindu sources.

Honest mistake.

Yes, to us Hindus, Bhagavad Gita itself is a confirmation that Krishna is God. We don't need to provide any further evidence. If anything contradicts the Bhagavad Gita, it is false to us. Works exactly the same way as your beliefs in the Bible.

There are many references in the Gita where Krishna is mentioned as the supreme God. Here's another important one:

Abandon all varieties of dharmas (dharmas = religions) and simply surrender unto Me alone. I shall liberate you from all sinful reactions; do not fear.
BG 18:66


Now, Jesus said something very similar in the Bible, John 14:6.

Now the Bhagavad Gita also says something which sounds very similar to the Alpha and Omega stuff in Revelations. MRS. ISABELLA, this one is for you.

O Arjun, I am seated in the heart of all living entities. I am the beginning, middle, and end of all beings.
BG 10:20

Now please don't misquote me. I'm not saying Jesus plagiarized from Krishna (as a Hindu, it's fun for me thinking about that possibility 😊😊😊😊) but please don't misquote me.

But Bhagavad Gita definitely predates the New Testament as you can see in my previous post.

Let's just call it HAPPY COINCIDENCE. [UNHAPPY for you people]

[GanduHindu]

But, may I ask, who is "The Supreme Lord"? Is it Almighty God from the ? Is it Son, the , ? As written within the glorious Word of :god ]

At the moment, I don't wish to create a false equivalency between the two sources.

Let's just keep the God of the Bible separate. But yea, coming to your second point:

Furthermore, we can read what the has to say about imposters who pretend to be gods:

The Bhagavad Gita undoubtedly predates the New Testament, suggesting that Krishna can't be entirely dismissed as a false god according to the Bible definition, can he? The following facts are certain, indisputable and irrefutable (Hey Mayor - read below for your query).

• Buddha, who lived around 500 BCE, knew of Krishna because he was born to Hindu warrior parents and raised in the Hindu tradition. In fact, Buddha spent his whole life in India, and Nepal. He never traveled to the Orient himself.
  • We Indians know that Hindu beliefs have been consistent and unchangeable from Day 1, so Buddha grew up reading Bhagavad Gita. He was born to affluent parents and could afford an education. Bhagavad Gita was a compulsory subject back in his day as it is now in India.
  • Buddha may have rejected Hinduism but that's not important to us. He charted a different path of non-violence and Buddhism which is fundamentally different from what Hinduism teaches.
  • Buddha's non-violence teachings didn't gain much traction in India (Indians love to argue and fight 😊😊😊😊😊) but it did spread widely across all Oriental-APAC countries.

• Also, When Alexander of Macedon invaded India in 327 BCE, he brought along many renowned historians. They encountered India’s religious traditions, including the Vedas and the Bhagavad Gita. Alexander himself spent considerable time with Hindu sages, almost becoming an ancient 'hippy' during his stay. One of his favorite sages was Kalanos, a gymnosophist. He became very attached to him, and they became marijuana-smoking buddies. While Alexander may not have embraced Hinduism, he certainly learned about its tenets.

I won’t delve into BG's comparisons with the Old Testament, especially from the Book of Exodus onwards. But we do know Moses and his tribe were exiled from Egypt around 13th century BCE. Whether or not it happened before/after the Book of Exodus is something I can't confirm right now. At the moment, I can only provide a half-satisfied resolution to this query.

Bhagavad Gita and the Mahabharata War (on which it is based) has a very variable timeline because a lot of ancient records were destroyed. India was invaded by the Scythians, Greeks, Huns, Muslims, throughout the centuries. A lot of famous ancient libraries like Nalanda were burned down completely, destroying many records.

However, modern scholars of Bhagavad Gita, place it in and around a timeline that varies from ~900 BCE all the way to ~3120 BCE. We do know there was a significant war that destroyed the whole of India (Gita's premise is based entirely on a war). But unfortunately, I cannot confirm the exact timeline at the moment. But it varies by over 2000 years.

[Isabella White]

The actual quote in English is "The Supreme Lord said: I am mighty Time, the source of destruction that comes forth to annihilate the worlds. Even without your participation, the warriors arrayed in the opposing army shall cease to exist.(BG 11:32).

But, may I ask, who is "The Supreme Lord"? Is it Almighty God from the ? Is it Son, the , ? As written within the glorious Word of , we find this:

I Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one , the Father, of whom are all things, and we in ; and one , by whom are all things, and we by ."

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the the King of Israel, and his redeemer the of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no ."

Furthermore, we can read what the has to say about imposters who pretend to be gods:

Exodus 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

I post these cherished and blessed verses for your benefit, Dear. I so hope that "The Supreme Lord" that you are referencing is not a false god, because that would anger the One, True terribly.

You are the expert on such things and we are glad you are here.

Amen, dear Brother Mayor Hold. I will agree — gladly — that we are so pleased that our new friend has found .

May our friend find the Love of the in these, the hallowed halls of .

[Johny Joe Hold]

Mr. Hindu--Please, don't misquote me. I never said we refuse to discuss Hinduism. I only requested we base our discussion on known facts, i.e., gods who have been seen and where these encounters are recorded history. That is, we do not waste our band width here discussing gods that only exist in the minds of followers. It would be unfortunate if the Hindu gods have never reached that level of authenticity. But, I do not know if their existence has been recorded in history or not. You are the expert on such things and we are glad you are here.

[GanduHindu]

In there I read:

https://www.iskcon.org/home/why-bad-things-happen-to-good-people.php
‘‘Although people know about it, the intricacies of karma are difficult to appreciate . . . Even if we act in a pious way, we destine ourselves to accept another material body at death to enjoy the reactions to our materially good actions. As long as we accept a material body we can not avoid the miseries of disease, old age, and death . . . With this broader vision we can understand how each of us individual souls is alone responsible for what happens in our life.’’

If this age is going to be full of sin and passionate crimes, the gods no longer accept offerings of Yajna and human beings destined to face tragedies one after another, how has anyone managed to attain humanity in the first place? There have not always been humans. Perhaps a pious ant could get upgraded to human but if humans currently existing have been immersed in sin and passionate crimes for the last 5,143 years—accruing demerit points throughout—what are ants supposed to have done to earn such punishment?

And were passionately sinful humans being downgraded to gorilla status, two questions would arise:
1. Where did the first humans come from?
2. Why is the human population increasing but gorillas not? (the same would apply to any extinct species of course)

Thank you.

I could easily set the record straight on this. But some of the members on this forum including the OP Mayor have asked me not to defend Hinduism on this site. I intend to honor their request.

I can only give you one answer: you don't compare an ant with a human. Do not mistake Hinduism for pacifism, non-violence, or peacefulness. While these are important virtues and often mentioned, history shows that Hindus have been as violent as Muslims and Christians.

Robert Oppenheimer, the Director of the Manhattan Project, always kept a Bhagavad Gita by his side. Before the first nuclear weapon test, he famously quoted the Bhagavad Gita as 'Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds'

The actual quote in English is "The Supreme Lord said: I am mighty Time, the source of destruction that comes forth to annihilate the worlds. Even without your participation, the warriors arrayed in the opposing army shall cease to exist.(BG 11:32).

Hey Mayor, as you can see I only brought up the Bhagavad Gita because this sister here asked a specific question on Hinduism. I am technically not defending it on here. Hope that is okay with you?

[MitzaLizalor]

Home - ISKCON - The Hare Krishna Movement
https://www.iskcon.org

In there I read:

https://www.iskcon.org/home/why-bad-things-happen-to-good-people.php
‘‘Although people know about it, the intricacies of karma are difficult to appreciate . . . Even if we act in a pious way, we destine ourselves to accept another material body at death to enjoy the reactions to our materially good actions. As long as we accept a material body we can not avoid the miseries of disease, old age, and death . . . With this broader vision we can understand how each of us individual souls is alone responsible for what happens in our life.’’

If this age is going to be full of sin and passionate crimes, the gods no longer accept offerings of Yajna and human beings destined to face tragedies one after another, how has anyone managed to attain humanity in the first place? There have not always been humans. Perhaps a pious ant could get upgraded to human but if humans currently existing have been immersed in sin and passionate crimes for the last 5,143 years—accruing demerit points throughout—what are ants supposed to have done to earn such punishment?

And were passionately sinful humans being downgraded to gorilla status, two questions would arise:
1. Where did the first humans come from?
2. Why is the human population increasing but gorillas not? (the same would apply to any extinct species of course)

Thank you.

[GanduHindu]

I read: “. . northwest of Thiruvananthapuram . .” (I find it difficult to believe any such word exists) “. .There is a huge demand in India for firecrackers, which are used in religious festivals . .”

Tell me about it! At a hindoo enclave (within Indonesia) and arriving shortly after a solar eclipse, there's me walking along, demoniacs everywhere (science would describe a gong-induced trance state and sure, they were banging gongs 29-to-the-dozen) then zing! Zingg!! ZINGGG!!! handfuls of tiny firecrackers thrown over me, a myriad bangs around my head (it was about midnight) so they must have gone through millions of the things.

Habakkuk 2:18-19 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols? Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.

Quite apart from the firecrackers, everywhere you looked—the next day in my case—idols galore. Half the working week taken up with processions to obsess over them, garlands made, gong cacophonies composed, the streets blocked. God is Jesus. God hates idols. He even DEFINES idols, preempting abstruse arguments as to why they're NOT idols. According to God, they ARE idols. Of course nobody has to agree with God's definition but for those who don't, woe is forthcoming. Not my idea: God's idea. It's right there in The Bible.

Yes, my American sister,

That Biblical verse seems very fitting for the tragedy you mentioned. I find it an interesting explanation from a Christian perspective. While I don't want to debate your position, I can say I understand it.

I would like to add that I've spent a lot of time in Bali, Indonesia. Their version of Hinduism is very different from the one in India, Nepal, and many other Hindu countries. Their core beliefs are animistic, and they believe in nature spirits. I tried to explain to the Indonesians the error of their ways (according to Hindu doctrine), but it was a dead end. They seem more focused on tourism in Bali and making money from foreigners.

That said, I think Bali is a divine island, although their belief system may not reflect it

[GanduHindu]

A Hindu gathering was exploded with 150 injured. How could such a thing happen without God's Divine Guidance? Hindus everywhere, along with Catholics, Muslims and atheists should wake up and take notice.

As interesting and astute as your observation is according to Christian doctrine, I must humbly profess that there is an explanation for a tragedy of this scale in Hindu scriptures.

Hindus believe in a cyclical cosmos, not linear time. The ages are divided into four groups: Satya (Truth), Treta, Dwapar, and Kali Yuga (Age of Sin).

According to the Bhagavad Gita and other important Hindu texts, which I won't expand on here, we entered the age of Kali approximately around 3120 BCE, a few decades after the famous Mahabharata War. Hindu doctrine says this age is going to be full of sin and passionate crimes, and the gods no longer accept the offerings of Yajna (sacred fire). Human beings are destined to face tragedies one after another. And Hindus might crop the worst.

So yes, people will continue to die and there will be more such accidents. It isn't surprising. The explanation lies within the Hindu belief system. Thank you and Namaste.

[MitzaLizalor]

An explosion of fireworks injures more than 150 people at a temple in India

I read: “. . northwest of Thiruvananthapuram . .” (I find it difficult to believe any such word exists) “. .There is a huge demand in India for firecrackers, which are used in religious festivals . .”

Tell me about it! At a hindoo enclave (within Indonesia) and arriving shortly after a solar eclipse, there's me walking along, demoniacs everywhere (science would describe a gong-induced trance state and sure, they were banging gongs 29-to-the-dozen) then zing! Zingg!! ZINGGG!!! handfuls of tiny firecrackers thrown over me, a myriad bangs around my head (it was about midnight) so they must have gone through millions of the things.

Habakkuk 2:18-19 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols? Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.

Quite apart from the firecrackers, everywhere you looked—the next day in my case—idols galore. Half the working week taken up with processions to obsess over them, garlands made, gong cacophonies composed, the streets blocked. God is Jesus. God hates idols. He even DEFINES idols, preempting abstruse arguments as to why they're NOT idols. According to God, they ARE idols. Of course nobody has to agree with God's definition but for those who don't, woe is forthcoming. Not my idea: God's idea. It's right there in The Bible.