[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

No one has any choice in the matter, under Biblical law by the Scripture. So when you say in the OP, "The good news is that she has choices!", aren't you lying?

Not at all.

The father, the rapist, and the judge can come to whatever settlement is most agreeable, since the father is the injured party in the case. There is also no commandment directed toward the rapee, as I've said before, nor toward the father, but toward the rapist only.

And let us not forget that this only applies to virgins who are not yet betrothed, and cases of rape (or consensual sex) where they are found in the act.

How many unbetrothed virgin girls are there among True Christians™? They're usually spoken for by the time they're 5.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

And I already agreed you were right that it doesn't.

If we're under Biblical law, then there's no there's no obstacle to him marrying her. He wouldn't have to divorce any present wife (or wives, if he's naughty). If he's a bishop or deacon, he'd have to stop and find other work to support the new wife along with the old one(s). He has no choice in the matter.

I still can't see where "she shall be his wife" leaves any other option for the young lady. She has no choice in the matter.

The father shall be paid fifty shekels (and many arguments over what that amounts to in today's markets have yielded no general consensus). Default on the payment would be dealt with as unpaid debt. He can throw the money on the ground, give it to charity, stick it up his ***, but he has no choice in the matter.

No one has any choice in the matter, under Biblical law by the Scripture. So when you say in the OP, "The good news is that she has choices!", aren't you lying?

Under secular law (as we are, thankfully), stupid pifflehead asshole rapist goes straight to jail, and for a long time, hopefully.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

Try not missing the point. You limited this thread to discussion of Biblical law:



Once again I ask: where does the Bible limit men (aside from bishops and deacons) to only one wife, which you raised as a rationalization for allowing a rapist to not marry his victim violating one of God's clearer instructions?

And I already agreed you were right that it doesn't.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

Try reading the whole post, not just the bits you like.

Try not missing the point. You limited this thread to discussion of Biblical law:

I'm talking Biblical law, dimwit...

Once again I ask: where does the Bible limit men (aside from bishops and deacons) to only one wife, which you raised as a rationalization for allowing a rapist to not marry his victim violating one of God's clearer instructions?

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

What if he rapes her anally? Is this even rape if it is anal? After all, her hymen is still intact.

I don't think she is entitled to anything but an execution if he's just sticking it in her butt.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

And I'm still waiting.

Try reading the whole post, not just the bits you like.

Should we change the law (perhaps with help from "Got Mittens?" Romney), to allow polygamy, then this would no longer be an obstacle.

But what of the deacon or bishop who is married and rapes?

[Didymus Much]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

...But you claimed that men (in general) cannot have more than wife. I asked you to show your support for this position.

...Yes, I did. Secular law, which presently forbids polygamy...

I'm talking Biblical law, dimwit...

And I'm still waiting.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

A woman is nothing more and nothing less than privately owned property. She has absolutely no rights, except those which the Bible provides her with. The Bible does guarantee her the hospitality of her rapist. This is not to protect the woman so much as it is to prevent the father from having to care for her for the rest of his life.

It does say that the rapist cannot put her away, so it does appear to guarantee her hospitality, and the right to his seed.

I feel I should also point out that the father may die sooner than the rapist. At this point there is a problem. Does the rapist pick up where the father left off, or is the woman just tossed out into the streets to hopefully be raped again?

The "break it, bought it" law only applies to a virgin; otherwise, it falls only to the "city/country" scream volume test. Since she'd not likely be betrothed (as a non-virgin), I imagine she'd be simply considered a harlot.

But you claimed that men (in general) cannot have more than wife. I asked you to show your support for this position.

Yes, I did. Secular law, which presently forbids polygamy. Therefore, under current secular law, while the church can demand that a rapist pay up to the rapee's father, it cannot force the rapist to divorce and remarry, as the rapist would then be living in sin; and the church cannot force him to marry a second wife, as it violates secular law.

Should we change the law (perhaps with help from "Got Mittens?" Romney), to allow polygamy, then this would no longer be an obstacle.

But what of the deacon or bishop who is married and rapes?

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

Not that a woman should have any choice in the matter, but why she would rather be a burden to her father rather than marry her rapist is beyond me. It wasn't her father who raped her, necessarily. If he did, then I guess there is no punishment for him. After all, he was just doing with his property what he chose.

1 Corinthians 7:36-38

King James Version (KJV)

36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.
38 So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

Any woman who refuses to marry her rapist must not love her father or, by extension, God. Any woman who doesn't marry her rapist will therefore most likely burn in Hell for all eternity.

Not to mention, some rape is also adultery. The rape victim is then an adulteress and must be executed AS WELL AS marry her rapist. I wonder which should happen first?

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

A woman is nothing more and nothing less than privately owned property. She has absolutely no rights, except those which the Bible provides her with. The Bible does guarantee her the hospitality of her rapist. This is not to protect the woman so much as it is to prevent the father from having to care for her for the rest of his life.

I feel I should also point out that the father may die sooner than the rapist. At this point there is a problem. Does the rapist pick up where the father left off, or is the woman just tossed out into the streets to hopefully be raped again? I think the Bible is silent on this point. Perhaps it should be up to Pastor Ezekiel.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

As Billy Bob and I have both pointed out, the primary point of the law is to protect the father...

Here I am thinking it was to guide True Christians(tm) in following the Will of God so they could go to Heaven. Silly me. Of course the father's interests are much more important than God's.

...That's why I said, "and if he is?". Neither a bishop nor a deacon can divorce his wife and marry the rape victim...

But you claimed that men (in general) cannot have more than wife. I asked you to show your support for this position.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

Where does the Scripture in question hang on the wishes of the father? Does the father know better what's good for him than God does?

As Billy Bob and I have both pointed out, the primary point of the law is to protect the father. There's no reason he can't waive his compensation, or negotiate other forms of compensation.

I recalled this bit of Scripture:

1 Timothy 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"

But while looking for it I also found this:

1 Timothy 3:12 "Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well."

Aside from those specific cases (bishops and deacons), is there any Scripture that limits men to one wife? Think of Solomon, among others.

That's why I said, "and if he is?". Neither a bishop nor a deacon can divorce his wife and marry the rape victim.

Granted, since the bishop would be guilty of fornication, thus no longer blameless, he'd no longer be a bishop. But a deacon . . .

[Didymus Much]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

What if the father doesn't want her to marry the rapist?...

Where does the Scripture in question hang on the wishes of the father? Does the father know better what's good for him than God does?

...And what if he is [a bishop]?

I recalled this bit of Scripture:

1 Timothy 3:2 "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"

But while looking for it I also found this:

1 Timothy 3:12 "Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well."

Aside from those specific cases (bishops and deacons), is there any Scripture that limits men to one wife? Think of Solomon, among others.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

What if the father doesn't want her to marry the rapist? Maybe the rapist is a good friend of the father, and he doesn't want to inflict that punishment upon him for succumbing to the temptress in a moment of weakness.

I will concede that perhaps the father could forgive the rapist. He would be the one to report it as a crime in the first place I think. If the father has no complaint, then nobody has a right to complain. After all, anti-rape laws are intended to protect fathers from having to pay for their daughters indefinitely. It is only the hymen that makes a woman worth anything to a potential husband.

[Rev. M. Rodimer]

Re: Is a daughter REQUIRED to marry her rapist?

I think it is implicit in these verses and the cultural context at the time that a woman has no choice in whom she marries. God was fine with women being the property of their fathers and husbands. It was only secularism that put a stop to this wise custom.

What if the father doesn't want her to marry the rapist? Maybe the rapist is a good friend of the father, and he doesn't want to inflict that punishment upon him for succumbing to the temptress in a moment of weakness.

Says who (unless he's a bishop)?

And what if he is?