[Didymus Much]

Re: Stand Againist

...I will not debate this further.

Debating is when you bring evidence. You're just throwing your (unjustified) opinion around.

Your entire position relies on one point that's unfalsifiable (that we can't know who God lets into Heaven before the fact), and expecting everyone to accept everything else you claim, because they can't prove you wrong therefore you're right. More fallacious reasoning.

[Witch Hammer]

Re: Stand Againist

If that's what you think, alright. I'm not agreeing with it but I will not debate this further.

What's your beef with baby Jesus, dipstick?

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Stand Againist

How does one overcome evil with good? Take this sitaution for example. You all are insulting me and condemning me when no one has any real say on who goes to Heaven or Hell because only God does. And instead of returning the favor, I treat you nicely and try to open your eyes. That's one example, of course.

That's a terrible example. God has the final say about who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell, and He conveniently had It written down in a leather-bound book for True Christians™ to read, meditate on, and follow.

God has already ensured me that I am His, and NO ONE, not even you all can change that. The Lord is MY Savior, MY Father, and MY friend. Condemn me if you want, call me trash if you will. But The Lord knows me and my heart, and yours too. I love my Father and want to help my fellow Christians open their eyes away form hate, but clearly you all want otherwise.

Don't be silly. Whatever voice or "gut-feeling" you attributed to the LORD is clearly hallucinogenic in nature, or simply a matter of you attributing a few thoughts to supernatural agency rather than recognize them as your own mind connecting mental dots you've collected over the years. Why, you might as well pretend you've got a magic compass that points to the direction of God, a compass only you can see, and one that miraculously confirms whatever you happen to think.

So I will end this, bless your hearts. I'll continue to pray for your minds, God bless. Thank you, have a nice day~

Your prayers are futile, dear. Don't waste your time. God doesn't listen to the prayers of sinners.

Why don't you stick around a while instead? Read some more. You just might learn something.

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

And you think the Bible is so much toilet paper. Got it.

If that's what you think, alright. I'm not agreeing with it but I will not debate this further.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Stand Againist

...no one has any real say on who goes to Heaven or Hell because only God does...

And you think the Bible is so much toilet paper. Got it.

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

How do you propose to do that when the Original, Written Source of Good and Evil (the Original, Organic Source having been bitten into, Genesis 3:1-7; then blocked off with Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life, Genesis 3:24). Mind you, this was only on the east side of the Garden of Eden, but the LORD saw to it that the Garden itself would be hidden so well that even Google Maps would never find it. So now we have the Holy Bible, which is admittedly easier to share and doesn't rot, but you apparently don't value its treasure of knowledge. So pray tell, how will you defeat evil with good when you don't know which is which because you're unfamiliar with the Word of God? You're making this up as you go along. Upon what do you base your ideas? What your mother told you? Is she really more knowledgeable than the Holy Lord?

How does one overcome evil with good? Take this sitaution for example. You all are insulting me and condemning me when no one has any real say on who goes to Heaven or Hell because only God does. And instead of returning the favor, I treat you nicely and try to open your eyes. That's one example, of course. God has already ensured me that I am His, and NO ONE, not even you all can change that. The Lord is MY Savior, MY Father, and MY friend. Condemn me if you want, call me trash if you will. But The Lord knows me and my heart, and yours too. I love my Father and want to help my fellow Christians open their eyes away form hate, but clearly you all want otherwise.

So I will end this, bless your hearts. I'll continue to pray for your minds, God bless. Thank you, have a nice day~

[Mary Etheldreda]

Re: Stand Againist

I will defeat evil with good instead.

How do you propose to do that when the Original, Written Source of Good and Evil (the Original, Organic Source having been bitten into, Genesis 3:1-7; then blocked off with Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life, Genesis 3:24). Mind you, this was only on the east side of the Garden of Eden, but the LORD saw to it that the Garden itself would be hidden so well that even Google Maps would never find it. So now we have the Holy Bible, which is admittedly easier to share and doesn't rot, but you apparently don't value its treasure of knowledge. So pray tell, how will you defeat evil with good when you don't know which is which because you're unfamiliar with the Word of God? You're making this up as you go along. Upon what do you base your ideas? What your mother told you? Is she really more knowledgeable than the Holy Lord?

[Didymus Much]

Re: Stand Againist

Well let's begin with the first question, if I may. We all at one point weren't not saved, we all at one point didn't believe. After all in order to believe you have to disbelieve first right? No one is born automatically believing unless raised to do so by family...

Even then, the Bible says that you have to be able to accept Christ's sacrifice for you. An baby/infant/toddler is intellectually incapable of comprehending the question, it doesn't matter where they're raised.

...Simple: He created Hell for Satan and his angels, and the wicked who reject Him...

Rejecting Him does not have to be a conscious act, according to the Bible. Say you lived somewhere that had never had contact with Christians, the Bible, etc. The Bible says you're damned because you didn't believe. It doesn't give you an out for not even being aware of the offer.

...So tell me, if you may, how does someone so wicked and sin drenched turned into the most devote Christian there is?...

Self-deception, usually after a traumatic event in their lives. They can't deal with a universe that basically doesn't care about them, and start looking for reasons and explanations in a chaotic universe.

...If God doesn't love them then why show them His love by saving them?...

Does He? The Bible says you get into Heaven by being perfect:

James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

...I will stop this debate because I've run out of things to bring to the table except my own feelings, which I've convinced myself align perfectly with those of God (overlooking the obvious "it's because I create God in my own mind" thing), and will now resort to a moral high ground fallacy, further weakening my own position...

FTFY.

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

That would be lying to them. God only loves those that love Him first, and True Christians™ show their love for Him by doing what He tells them to.

John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."



Then why did He create Hell in the first place?



They think He doesn't love everyone because that's what the Bible says:

Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord hath made all things for himself: Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

If you wish to dispute this, cite Scripture that shows they're wrong. Your "feelings" or "what you've always been told" are meaningless and worthless when compared to what the Bible says in plain English.

Well let's begin with the first question, if I may. We all at one point weren't not saved, we all at one point didn't believe. After all in order to believe you have to disbelieve first right? No one is born automatically believing unless raised to do so by family.

Simple: He created Hell for Satan and his angels, and the wicked who reject Him.

So tell me, if you may, how does someone so wicked and sin drenched turned into the most devote Christian there is? If God doesn't love them then why show them His love by saving them?

I will stop this debate because this group makes me highly disappointed, to the point of wanting to stoop to your level. However I will not, I will defeat evil with good instead.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Re: Stand Againist

Before you slander me or condemn me please listen. I am not here to flame or argue, any hate will be dealt with calmly and not with hate in return. Just have a open mind while you read, that's all I ask, thank you.

For “Whoever desires to love life and see good days, let him keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit; (*1 Peter *3:*10 ESV)

How do we expect the unsaved or lost to become saved if we show them hate and condemn them? We are suppose to lead others to the cross, not push them away. We are suppose to spread LOVE not hate.

Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing. (*1 Peter *3:*9 ESV)

Bless those who are different so that they may one day know God. Not curse them and shove them away form His love.

But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. (*Jude *1:*10 ESV)

This is what we become of we hate and judge, instead of love and lead. There are many other points, but this is one of them.

Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother. (*2 Thessalonians *3:*15 ESV)

This is why I'm posting this. To warn you all, that hate isn't the way to go. Love is.

But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one. (*2 Thessalonians *3:*3 ESV)

This is true, but why do you all feel the need to guard yourselves with hateful comments and slander? Is it fear? You don't have to fear those different than you, yet understand them so you can show them love. Fear breeds hate, Jesus is Love not hate.

As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. (*James *4:*16 ESV)

Don't you see, when you boast about being a true Christian, that it is wrong to begin with? We should boast about God's ever loving grace! Not about ourselves!

and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving each other, even as God also in Christ forgave you. (*Ephesians *4:*32 ASV)

If God forgives you, why you not forgive those who are different? We are to be kind and tender hearted to each other, to forgive. Like He has forgiven us.

To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” (*Romans *12:*20 ESV)

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (*Romans *12:*21 ESV)

So what if those who stand different than us curse us or hate us? Showing them kindness will confuse and kill them a lot quicker, hate will only grow into more hate.

Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? (*James *3:*11 ESV)

You CANNOT claim to love The Lord and not love like He did. You must love like Him, not hate others because they do not know Him. How can they know His love if you don't show it?

I am done here, have a lovely day or night. God bless, I shall pray for you all.

tl;dr

This is called the INTRODUCTION section of the forum for a reason. This is NOT a debate site. Please act civilized and share with us your name, age, gender, hometown, and the Church you attend. Share your walk with Jesus. Share with us which sins you have struggled with.

If you'd like to find out more about Landover Baptist Church, please read THIS thread created especially for new posters.

If you have a question, use the "search" function before posting it. Most likely it is being discussed somewhere on this Godly forum. Please don't waste God's precious bandwidth.

You will keep a respectful tongue in your head whenever addressing your betters, which includes all True Christians™. Failure to do so, or any attempt at inciting debate or mockery of God's Divine Plan, can and will result in the suspension of your posting privileges.

Your rights on this forum are listed HERE. If you feel that any of these rights have been violated, please don't hesitate to contact a Pastor at once.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Stand Againist

...But if they're told that God loves them...

That would be lying to them. God only loves those that love Him first, and True Christians™ show their love for Him by doing what He tells them to.

John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

...God doesn't want ANYONE of His children to burn in hell...

Then why did He create Hell in the first place?

...loves EVERYONE even if you think He doesn't...

They think He doesn't love everyone because that's what the Bible says:

Proverbs 16:4 "The Lord hath made all things for himself: Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

If you wish to dispute this, cite Scripture that shows they're wrong. Your "feelings" or "what you've always been told" are meaningless and worthless when compared to what the Bible says in plain English.

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

Vertilis, I'm a mite confused. You seem to think we should lie to sinners and make them feel good about themselves. God never told us to do any such thing.

Also, think of it this way. Someone will not want to be saved if all they're told is 'God hates you' 'You're filth' 'Go to hell!' They will think they are what they were called and be discouraged or even turned against God because of the hate that comes out of you alls mouth. But if they're told that God loves them and wants them to come to Him to be saved, so they don't perish, it'll make them want to come to God and be saved.

And it's true. God doesn't want ANYONE of His children to burn in hell, loves EVERYONE even if you think He doesn't. No one was or ever will be a mistake in His eyes.

(1 John 4)

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, because 17 love is from God, and everyone who loves 18 has been fathered 19 by God and knows God. 8 The person who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 20 9 By this 21 the love of God 22 is revealed in us: 23 that God has sent his one and only 24 Son into the world so that we may live through him. 10 In this 25 is love: not that 26 we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the atoning sacrifice 27 for our sins.
11 Dear friends, if God so loved us, then 28 we also ought to love one another. 29 12 No one has seen God at any time. 30 If we love one another, God resides 31 in us, and his love is perfected in us. 32 13 By this 33 we know that we reside in God 34 and he in us: in that he has given us of his Spirit. 35 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior 36 of the world.

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

Vertilis, I'm a mite confused. You seem to think we should lie to sinners and make them feel good about themselves. God never told us to do any such thing.

Please tell me how I said that? Did I not state that we should warn them of their wrong doings and what would become of it of they didn't seek out Jesus for salvation? How exactly are those words a lie? It's true after all, sinners go to hell if they do not get saved by Jesus by repentance. But that doesn't mean they can't be saved because their sinners, they can. That's who salvation is for, us, people. No matter the sin, He forgives and accepts us all. It's up to us to decide if we want to be saved or not.

After all, though saved, we ourselves are still sinners in a way. We have to avoid sin of course, but that doesn't mean we don't sin once we get saved. It's impossible not to sin, but the only difference is we are forgiven by our Savior. They are not for they haven't prayed to be saved or receive salvation.

[Faith_Machine]

Re: Stand Againist

Vertilis, I'm a mite confused. You seem to think we should lie to sinners and make them feel good about themselves. God never told us to do any such thing.

[Vertilis155]

Re: Stand Againist

No, it doesn't. Why oh why do you persist in ignoring what people say to you? Where did anyone here recommend the "New" King James Version (1975)?

I didn't know me accidentally typing the word new in there or not reading properly could get such a rouse, I apologize if one word offends you or makes you jump a gun at me.

As for the first question, not regarding you Joanna by the way, it was a mixture of the two. I was scared, yes, like anyone other person in my situation could be. I like to believe I allowed Him in, though I have issues here and there like any Christian for there are no perfect Christians. We all make mistakes, only Christ was perfect.