[handmaiden]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

Whatever the outcome may be, I can accept damnation as a price for my beliefs, though personally I have faith in a kinder god, who is capable of growth and does not remain as he was 2000 years ago.

By what reasoning does a Supreme Being need to grow? Was the Supreme Being a bratty child who needs learn that he can't always get what he wants? Or maybe the Supreme Being stayed out too late and slept in the next day and missed his algebra test?



First of all, there are verses upon verses in the Bible that declare God's unchanging nature. Then there is the logical conclusion that a god--any god--whose authority is evoked in matters of moral dictate, can not itself be immoral.


If the whomever tribe burns people alive for centuries because their god told them to, and then they start questioning the virtue of burning people alive, is it because their god "grew" into a kinder, gentler Supreme Being after centuries of instructing people to be burned alive? Or is it that the people changed for the better and reverse engineered their Supreme Being to fit their new way of thing?


Why have a Supreme Being if he/she/it can't take the infinite/eternal overview of the universe and guide his/her/its mere mortal followers in the best possible path?


If you are interested in personal growth, that's your business, but who are you to instruct a god-- by any definition of that word-- in how it should grow?


This is a glaringly obvious exercise in making God in your own image. I am not even going to bother providing a moral evaluation of that thinking. But, please, for the sake of any god that anyone has ever believed in, just admit that this is what you are doing.


Once you can open your eyes to this simple reality, we may be able to engage in a productive conversation. Until then, I will place you on the same level as some Aztec priest who cuts people's hearts out. You may think that you are nothing like such a --to your mind--bloodthirsty person, but you are both equally deluded.


Non-absurdly Yours,
Handmaiden

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

The god you and your peers have described to me is one to whom's authority I could never willingly bow or serve, because it is an unjust and undeserved authority- submission to power because it exceeds you is in my eyes bowing before a tyrant.

I could quote you Bible verses to counter that view, but I can already tell that you wouldn't care. Instead, I'll ask you for an a priori reason why it would be unjust for the Supreme Being to have such authority.

Whatever the outcome may be, I can accept damnation as a price for my beliefs, though personally I have faith in a kinder god, who is capable of growth and does not remain as he was 2000 years ago.

On the basis of what evidence do you have faith in such a god?

In any case, I've decided my time can be better spent looking into other Christian denominations for insight and wisdom

How nice.

[Basilissa]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

I have thought long and hard about what you have said, and have come to the conclusion that we do not worship the same god,

We worship the only God for Whose existence there is an actual evidence: the Holy Bible.

What other/false god do you worship, dear?

Whatever the outcome may be, I can accept damnation as a price for my beliefs, though personally I have faith in a kinder god, who is capable of growth and does not remain as he was 2000 years ago.

Why would you want to worship an imperfect, flawed god? Do you seriously think such a god would be worthy of your worship?

In any case, I've decided my time can be better spent looking into other Christian denominations for insight and wisdom,

Let me spare you trouble, dear: all Christian denominations use the same Holy Text as the sole evidence of God's existence and character.

Therefore, if you don't like God of the Bible then you need to look for a religion that is not Bible-based. Or, you could make up your own! Not much difference - you'll end up in Hell one way or another!

Also I have observed several occassions where quoting from scripture is used to supplement the actual word of god, whilst forgetting the words that surround the quoted passage which gave those very words their meaning.

Oh, please do show me, in which instance did a True Christian™ quote the Holy Bible out of context. Without actual evidence I'll consider your words to be lies/empty accusations.

They seem like well intentioned and well thought out, though quite simple, individuals. I wish them good fortune, and that one day they will meet my god.

Thank you (I suppose), although if (hypothetically) I wanted to "meet" an imaginary god I'd prefer to make up my own rather than "meet" a product of someone else's imagination. Anyhow, that hypothetical scenario is highly unlikely either way, as I prefer to worship and meet God for whose existence there is actual evidence.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

I have thought long and hard about what you have said, and have come to the conclusion that we do not worship the same god, though our faiths may parallel each other in some respect.

So you're not a Christian, then. At least you can admit it, and not tarnish the name of Christ any further.

The god you and your peers have described to me is one to whom's authority I could never willingly bow or serve, because it is an unjust and undeserved authority- submission to power because it exceeds you is in my eyes bowing before a tyrant. And quite frankly I don't much care for such a being. Such actions go against many things I believe to be important in being a good person. I suppose if I was born a human then I must have at some point become a demon, and if that is the case, it is a relief to know in some ways- it removes much of the concern I had about possibly worshiping the wrong way- as I now realize that I would prefer the way I do things, though I have yet to actuvely wish ill on humanity.

Whatever the outcome may be, I can accept damnation as a price for my beliefs, though personally I have faith in a kinder god, who is capable of growth and does not remain as he was 2000 years ago.

I see. So if there is a god, you get to decide what he/ she/ it is like and how he/ she/ it operates. You prefer a god who is finite and fallible, who can learn and change . . . kind of like a human. Do you find this line of reasoning works for other facts of the universe, like gravity?

Also I have observed several occassions where quoting from scripture is used to supplement the actual word of god

How can Scripture supplement the Word of God? It is the Word of God!

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Although some Pentecostals think God constantly talks to them throughout the day (inside their head), telling them what to have for breakfast, what color tie to wear. I think you may be a bit like that. Hint: that voice inside your head isn't God; it's you.

whilst forgetting the words that surround the quoted passage which gave those very words their meaning.

It's funny how when we quote Scriptures that go against someone's views, they always accuse us of taking the Bible out of context – usually, as you just did, without demonstrating how. The burden of proof is on you, if you ever come back.

I wish them good fortune, and that one day they will meet my god.

We've already met you, so we've already met your god. I don't see anything that inspires worship.

[Lord Arthwipe]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

How about I accuse you of regarding the Holy Bible as a set of general guidelines, suggestions and cautions regarding human behavior?


Now, don't get upset; I was clearly pulling on one little word that you may have used injudiciously and may have made more of it than you meant. Still, the point that I wish to make is that the official position of Landover Baptist is that the Bible is the Divinely Revealed Word of the One True God.


That being said, we do harp on the whole, obey it all, or not at all concept. We don't accept the perspective that some of its words are useful for personal moral instruction and the crafting of social order while other things that it says are outdated, obscure or even obscene to implement as the law of the land.


The Bible says that it is the Law of the Lord, so how can it not be acceptable to codify into legal statutes for human societies?


You either believe and obey completely or you dismiss it and come up with your own principle-based common morality. Of course, you can believe in the existence of the Biblical God and refuse His authority. That's called being a demon.


James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


For the record, I'm not really accusing you of being a demon, I'm just trying to make you see your choices clearly. Sometimes the bright light of Truth™ stings.


Tearingly Yours,
Handmaiden

I have thought long and hard about what you have said, and have come to the conclusion that we do not worship the same god, though our faiths may parallel each other in some respect.


The god you and your peers have described to me is one to whom's authority I could never willingly bow or serve, because it is an unjust and undeserved authority- submission to power because it exceeds you is in my eyes bowing before a tyrant. And quite frankly I don't much care for such a being. Such actions go against many things I believe to be important in being a good person. I suppose if I was born a human then I must have at some point become a demon, and if that is the case, it is a relief to know in some ways- it removes much of the concern I had about possibly worshiping the wrong way- as I now realize that I would prefer the way I do things, though I have yet to actuvely wish ill on humanity.


Whatever the outcome may be, I can accept damnation as a price for my beliefs, though personally I have faith in a kinder god, who is capable of growth and does not remain as he was 2000 years ago.


In any case, I've decided my time can be better spent looking into other Christian denominations for insight and wisdom, and I shall trouble you all no further with my blasphemies and self-aware "hubris"- I can only assume the kindest thing a Demon would be capable of is actively not seeking to inflict suffering onto the faithful, and it seems that the core of my faith offends at least the higher- ranked of this forum.


Also I have observed several occassions where quoting from scripture is used to supplement the actual word of god, whilst forgetting the words that surround the quoted passage which gave those very words their meaning. It has vastly lowered my opinions of the L.B.C., and the pettiness and egotism displayed by various staff has only exacerbated that view. They seem like well intentioned and well thought out, though quite simple, individuals. I wish them good fortune, and that one day they will meet my god.

[handmaiden]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

the cautionary scriptures referring to the matter. . . But I am quite tired and fairly certain at this point someone will accuse me of something.

How about I accuse you of regarding the Holy Bible as a set of general guidelines, suggestions and cautions regarding human behavior?


Now, don't get upset; I was clearly pulling on one little word that you may have used injudiciously and may have made more of it than you meant. Still, the point that I wish to make is that the official position of Landover Baptist is that the Bible is the Divinely Revealed Word of the One True God.


That being said, we do harp on the whole, obey it all, or not at all concept. We don't accept the perspective that some of its words are useful for personal moral instruction and the crafting of social order while other things that it says are outdated, obscure or even obscene to implement as the law of the land.


The Bible says that it is the Law of the Lord, so how can it not be acceptable to codify into legal statutes for human societies?


You either believe and obey completely or you dismiss it and come up with your own principle-based common morality. Of course, you can believe in the existence of the Biblical God and refuse His authority. That's called being a demon.


James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


For the record, I'm not really accusing you of being a demon, I'm just trying to make you see your choices clearly. Sometimes the bright light of Truth™ stings.


Tearingly Yours,
Handmaiden

[MitzaLizalor]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

Hey Arthwipe, how's it going? I was surprised that you'd read both The Bible and the ravings called q’ran the spelling varies quite a lot really and wow! isn't it boring! Then remarked that there wasn't a more lively passage in the former?

The episode involving Zidonians is pretty good, and the Benjaminites were also richly blessed. Judges is a great book.

[Lord Arthwipe]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

I hope you can find some time to read the Holy Bible as well. All of it, not just some taken out of context bits and pieces. I firmly believe that it would help you.

I will pray that you don't end up like the 2 Thess 2:10-12 people.

Your polite suggestion is welcomed and appreciated... hopefully mine will be delivered today, but until then I'll keep using that web resource your very helpful peer reccomended to me earlier.

[Basilissa]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

In any case I cant stop you from continuing to post- so do as you wish. i am going to go make myself some coffee, and enjoy my evening with my loved ones.

I hope you can find some time to read the Holy Bible as well. All of it, not just some taken out of context bits and pieces. I firmly believe that it would help you.

I will pray that you don't end up like the 2 Thess 2:10-12 people.

[Lord Arthwipe]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

Please do explain, whom are you accusing of pride and on what basis?

Proverbs 19:5 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and [he that] speaketh lies shall not escape.

You are aware, that this is our forum and we do here what we please, right?

Please, provide specific examples instead of throwing vague accusations!

Awww, you're having a meltdown! How cute!

Please note this is your introduction thread, so I have no idea what are you talking about?

You are clearly able to read context in a social interaction well enough to percieve irritation, but you mistake my apathy for true grief, and are attempting to elicit a more explosive reaction.


I am aware that this isnt my forum, I am asking you to have respect for the spirit of the forum and bow out of the conversation on polite terms, because further interactions between you and I will not end in a productive result and neither of us has much respect for the other. I think you are possibly a trial of patience sent here to test my resolve, or just an unpleasant and misguided (though well-intentioned) person.


In any case I cant stop you from continuing to post- so do as you wish. i am going to go make myself some coffee, and enjoy my evening with my loved ones.

[Basilissa]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

It was pointed out to me that this was a straw-man arguement(a term I havent heard since my Debate classes.)


I should correct this by simply clarifing that I believe that I am not going against gods will by acting with compassion and helping someone who is clearly in need of assistance, hence why I quoted Matthew. I am also of the opinion that god does not frown upon medical practice- only those who place science above God. My reason for believing this is that of the cautionary scriptures referring to the matter, none are about the medical practice itself, only the men who had no faith in god and were thus punished for it- and that is as literally as one can take the scripture its meaning does not change.


But I am quite tired and fairly certain at this point someone will accuse me of something.

And now you're quoting yourself. Interesting. Do you disagree now with the things you said in the quoted post?

I agree that you should, because based on the Bible verses provided previously God disapproves of the medical profession as a whole.

[Lord Arthwipe]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

So what you are saying, is that I should either take responsibility for the actions of other people, which would be ridiculous when there is no way for me to know every persons life story. OR I should just completely abandon people to recover on their own and ignore basic human decency.


You effectively are telling me to turn a blind eye to peoples suffering and assume that they just deserve it and are beyond saving, even though I could not possibly know that from my brief interactions with them, and apparently their suffering cannot wait until they are hell and have lost all the time they had to turn over a new leaf.


Im sorry but I disagree with you, and would refer you to Matthew 25:42 and the surrounding passages.

It was pointed out to me that this was a straw-man arguement(a term I havent heard since my Debate classes.)


I should correct this by simply clarifing that I believe that I am not going against gods will by acting with compassion and helping someone who is clearly in need of assistance, hence why I quoted Matthew. I am also of the opinion that god does not frown upon medical practice- only those who place science above God. My reason for believing this is that of the cautionary scriptures referring to the matter, none are about the medical practice itself, only the men who had no faith in god and were thus punished for it- and that is as literally as one can take the scripture its meaning does not change.


But I am quite tired and fairly certain at this point someone will accuse me of something.

[Basilissa]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

Im afraid your pride has gotten the better of you,

Please do explain, whom are you accusing of pride and on what basis?

Proverbs 19:5 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and [he that] speaketh lies shall not escape.

I must now ask you to leave this thread and no longer post

You are aware, that this is our forum and we do here what we please, right?

as I have no desire to have a petty passive-agressive arguement where you mis-quote scripture

Please, provide specific examples instead of throwing vague accusations!

I joined this site for a purpose and sofar you have not been a helpful to that purpose nor a welcome influence- as in truth I have found you impolite and tiresome, while others of your peers have been helpful or insightful, and show respect for peoples ability to think even when challenging something I have said or asking for clarification of meaning.

Awww, you're having a meltdown! How cute!

This thread was meant to be a simple introduction, and I believe the introduction has been completed from your end.

Please note this is your introduction thread, so I have no idea what are you talking about?

[Lord Arthwipe]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

Im afraid your pride has gotten the better of you, and forgive you for your somewhat bitter reply, humility is a tough lesson to learn.If the format of a responce is your highest concern and not the substance of the underlying thought then I dont expect that either of us benifit much from your input in intellectual discourse.


I must now ask you to leave this thread and no longer post , as I have no desire to have a petty passive-agressive arguement where you mis-quote scripture and are constantly twisting words to mean something that they do not- whether from active malevolence or just a lack of understanding I cant be sure.


I joined this site for a purpose and sofar you have not been a helpful to that purpose nor a welcome influence- as in truth I have found you impolite and tiresome, while others of your peers have been helpful or insightful, and show respect for peoples ability to think even when challenging something I have said or asking for clarification of meaning.


This thread was meant to be a simple introduction, and I believe the introduction has been completed from your end.

[Lord Arthwipe]

Re: A not-so-brief Introduction

Where's your respect for the Good Lord that rebuked them in painful and debilitating ways? You think He snaps bones and stirs up cancer for fun and games? No! He does it because He's trying to catch the attention of souls (Proverbs 20:30; Hebrews 12:5-8; Revelation 3:19), probably because they touch themselves at night. And you patch them back up so they can go on and offend Jesus again.

Shame on you!



Do you bring them to bars and brothels too? It seems you work with any organization that takes money and makes people feel good when they walk out the front doors.

So what you are saying, is that I should either take responsibility for the actions of other people, which would be ridiculous when there is no way for me to know every persons life story. OR I should just completely abandon people to recover on their own and ignore basic human decency.


You effectively are telling me to turn a blind eye to peoples suffering and assume that they just deserve it and are beyond saving, even though I could not possibly know that from my brief interactions with them, and apparently their suffering cannot wait until they are hell and have lost all the time they had to turn over a new leaf.


Im sorry but I disagree with you, and would refer you to Matthew 25:42 and the surrounding passages.