Please allow me to introduce myself

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Please allow me to introduce myself

What a funny little site! I've received two PMs, neither of which I can reply to. (You don't 'receive infractions, BTW. You commit them).

Anyway, as I haven't received an answer about posting my own material here, I'll go ahead and post a summary of the case for common descent from endogenous retroviruses. Further questions welcome.

1. Retroviruses replicate by invading the cells of host organisms, converting their RNA genomes into DNA, and inserting (integrating, in the jargon) the DNA into the DNA of the host cell. The integrated DNA is called a "provirus". The host cell then "reads" the provirus, converting it back into RNA, resulting in the production of more viruses.

2. Retroviruses tend to target certain types of cells. Their "environment" proteins tend to be specialized to attach to the surfaces of these cells.

3. The insertion is made by a retroviral enzyme called integrase. While certain retroviruses can show a general tendency to insert their DNA in certain types of regions in a host cell's DNA, they do not target specific points (loci). This means that in an infected individual, not all cells will be infected, and in those that are, the retroviral integration will be in a different place or places in the DNA of each cell.

4. We find, in the genomes of creatures such as ourselves and chimpanzees, inherited structures that appear to be broken retroviral insertions. Some are more complete than others, but many have the full set of genes that would be necessary for a complete retrovirus, were they not faulty. We call these structures endogenous retroviruses (ERVs). Unlike the case where each cell is individually infected, they appear in the exact same spots in the DNA of every single nuclear cell (cells with nuclei containing DNA).

5. Although certain components of some ERVs perform functions in the host, some even being essential in some species, no complete ERVs are functional. Design, as an explanation for ERVs, does not make any sense. A designer would have...
...stuff...

Dear sinner,

If we didn't have access to the Bible, everything that you just wrote would make sense. It is logical, based on observational evidence, experimentation, meticulous genetic analyses and bioinformatics in many Institutions. If we only had this evidence and the current biodiversity at our disposal, we would have to accept what you say, of course provisionally, as science strives for higher and higher probabilities, better explanations, better predictions but not for Truth™.

Fortunately, we have the Bible and we have access to the methodology of Creation Science. In Creation Science, observations are assessed against the background of Scripture, and if there are contradictions, Scripture takes precedence. The results you so proudly present would falsify the 6-day Creation, the shape of the Earth , Noah's Flood and many other things. Thus, based on Bible study, we know that they are irrelevant and faulty. Jesus did warn us against that kind of disinformation.

1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Science offers very attractive explanations but they are there only to test us. God uses these data to divert us from the Path of Righteousness!

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

We Praise Jesus every day, because He gave us the Bible. If it were not here, we'd have to agree with you. Only the Bible leads us away from accepting scientific data based on observational evidence!


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Barry Desborough]

Re: Please allow me to introduce myself

What are your favorites (Bible verses)?
Elmer

"Let him that is without sin cast the first stone."

And

“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”


The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”


Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

And

Jesus1 looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box, and he saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. And he said, “Truly, I tell you, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

[Barry Desborough]

Re: Please allow me to introduce myself

Dear sinner,

We are also anti-ignorance. Jesus commands us to fight ignorance everywhere!

1 Peter 2:15
For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

Isn't that a magnificent verse? What are your favorites?


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

What a funny little site! I've received two PMs, neither of which I can reply to. (You don't 'receive infractions, BTW. You commit them).

Anyway, as I haven't received an answer about posting my own material here, I'll go ahead and post a summary of the case for common descent from endogenous retroviruses. Further questions welcome.

1. Retroviruses replicate by invading the cells of host organisms, converting their RNA genomes into DNA, and inserting (integrating, in the jargon) the DNA into the DNA of the host cell. The integrated DNA is called a "provirus". The host cell then "reads" the provirus, converting it back into RNA, resulting in the production of more viruses.

2. Retroviruses tend to target certain types of cells. Their "environment" proteins tend to be specialized to attach to the surfaces of these cells.

3. The insertion is made by a retroviral enzyme called integrase. While certain retroviruses can show a general tendency to insert their DNA in certain types of regions in a host cell's DNA, they do not target specific points (loci). This means that in an infected individual, not all cells will be infected, and in those that are, the retroviral integration will be in a different place or places in the DNA of each cell.

4. We find, in the genomes of creatures such as ourselves and chimpanzees, inherited structures that appear to be broken retroviral insertions. Some are more complete than others, but many have the full set of genes that would be necessary for a complete retrovirus, were they not faulty. We call these structures endogenous retroviruses (ERVs). Unlike the case where each cell is individually infected, they appear in the exact same spots in the DNA of every single nuclear cell (cells with nuclei containing DNA).

5. Although certain components of some ERVs perform functions in the host, some even being essential in some species, no complete ERVs are functional. Design, as an explanation for ERVs, does not make any sense. A designer would have no need to include specifically retroviral genes in its designs, which now do nothing, or may even cause harm. There would also be no need to design in non-functional traces of the action of integrase, traces of which are present in ERVs.

6. The only explanation that makes any sense is that ERVs are the result of retroviral insertions into germ-line DNA - egg cells or sperm cells, followed by reproduction and consequent cell division. Cell division will duplicate the ERVs in the same positions in the DNA of every cell. Separate, parallel infection would not infect every cell, and the proviruses would end up in different locations, comparing one infected cell with another.

7. All human beings have some 200,000+ ERV and ERV fragments in the DNA of every one of their cells. Most of them are in identical DNA locations going from cell to cell, and person to person. This means that we all share common ancestors - the ancestors that first acquired each of the germ-line retroviral infections.

8. All human beings and chimpanzees have some 200,000+ ERV and ERV fragments in the DNA of every one of their cells. Most of them are in precisely corresponding DNA locations going from cell to cell, and individual to individual. This means that we all share common ancestors - the ancestors that first acquired each of the germ-line retroviral infections.

[Barry Desborough]

Re: Please allow me to introduce myself

Hi. This looks like a fun site. Someone alerted me to it on Facebook by copying a post from here that claimed that the Bible says that the world is 6,000 years old (it doesn't - that was Bishop Ussher's claim - a mortal man) and that if it was older, all the water would have been used up. Somebody obviously was away from school when their teacher covered the rain cycle!

Anyway, I'm not anti-religious, just anti-ignorance. I'm not here to debate, just to educate. I'm a fully qualified and experienced teacher. Here is my FAQ on a topic that puts common descent beyond any reasonable doubt. If you have any questions, I'd be delighted to answer them, but please check the FAQ first to see if your question has already been answered. ***Atheist propaganda link removed, as Jesus prefers the posters to actually write what they wish to say***

Um - it's not atheistic. It's just science, and it is virtually all in my own words. Don't be afraid. It's just reality. Is that not allowed here? Can I cut and paste from my own work or not? I can't see your PM, by the way. My pop-up blocker won't allow it. What did you want to say?

[Elmer G. White]

Re: Please allow me to introduce myself

Hi. This looks like a fun site. Someone alerted me to it on Facebook by copying a post from here that claimed that the Bible says that the world is 6,000 years old (it doesn't - that was Bishop Ussher's claim - a mortal man) and that if it was older, all the water would have been used up. Somebody obviously was away from school when their teacher covered the rain cycle!

Anyway, I'm not anti-religious, just anti-ignorance. I'm not here to debate, just to educate. I'm a fully qualified and experienced teacher. Here is my FAQ on a topic that puts common descent beyond any reasonable doubt. If you have any questions, I'd be delighted to answer them, but please check the FAQ first to see if your question has already been answered. ***Atheist propaganda link removed, as Jesus prefers the posters to actually write what they wish to say***

Dear sinner,

We are also anti-ignorance. Jesus commands us to fight ignorance everywhere!

1 Peter 2:15
For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

Isn't that a magnificent verse? What are your favorites?


Yours in Christ,

Elmer

[Barry Desborough]

Hi. This looks like a fun site. Someone alerted me to it on Facebook by copying a post from here that claimed that the Bible says that the world is 6,000 years old (it doesn't - that was Bishop Ussher's claim - a mortal man) and that if it was older, all the water would have been used up. Somebody obviously was away from school when their teacher covered the rain cycle!

Anyway, I'm not anti-religious, just anti-ignorance. I'm not here to debate, just to educate. I'm a fully qualified and experienced teacher. Here is my FAQ on a topic that puts common descent beyond any reasonable doubt. If you have any questions, I'd be delighted to answer them, but please check the FAQ first to see if your question has already been answered. ***Atheist propaganda link removed, as Jesus prefers the posters to actually write what they wish to say***