[James Dewitt]

Re: Intro !

I have to agree , I tried to be nice to the sand nigra, but all he did was insult people. The mooslim people are not nice, no wonder God hates them!

[Levi Jones]

Re: Intro !

How much less is man compared to moon and stars ?

So no. I confess I do not believe Jesus to be divine or the son of God.

The Bible clearly says so.

Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

It's no stranger to believe than Muhammad flying on the back of a horse or an elephant named Burak to heaven, depending on what you believe.

[Ahmad_Deedat]

Re: Intro !

The Bible clearly says so.

Luke 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

It's no stranger to believe than Muhammad flying on the back of a horse or an elephant named Burak to heaven, depending on what you believe.

I´m on the job so I´ll have to make this short..

Please Mr Levi. Do not use verses out of context.. John 10:30 is not to be understood the way you are trying to.

Now.. What is the context really? Jesus trying to convince people that he is the son of God ?

Let us have a look.. I begins in John 10:23 - And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

The Jews then surround Jesus and said "How long do you make us to doubt?"
They believed Jesus to be talking lies. Which we all know is not true. Jesus was preaching the words of God. But the Jews where mad at the Messiah. After all he called them fools, snakes, adulterers, wicked and so on.. And the Jews held a grudge.

So the Jews surround Jesus, point their fingers and demand answers.

John 10:26 - But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

John 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 - My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.

So. When we look into the context Jesus is not telling the Jews that he is the son of God, rather than telling them : In purpose we are one.

The Jews though where not satisfied. They wanted to stone him.

John 10:32 - Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

John 10:33 - The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Another lie from the Jews. The Jews claim that Jesus blasphemed by claiming divinity and tyou Christians also believe that and that Jesus truly is Godly.
Jesus replies

John 10:34 - Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law (The Torah), I said, Ye are gods?

If God Almighty called them Gods are we to take that literally ?? No!
God spoke to Moses and said: Behold, I have made you a God to Pharaoh.

He is not really a God but that is the way the jewish language is made.

2 Corinthians 4:4 - (And the Devil is) The God of this world.

Does that mean that the Devil is God ?? NO! That is just how the language works. He is in control so the is god.. Moses is god to pharaoh and the Jews are all gods. Do not take it literally..

God has thousands of sons if every word in the books are to be taken literally..

Have a nice day.

PS. I am untouched by the disgraceful comments made by several members of this forum. You do not follow Messiah´s example..

[Lisa H]

Re: Intro !

You have taken the verses out of context. Jesus said he was the Son of God. Did you read the rest of John 10, again Jesus mentions God is his Father

John 10
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
40 And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.
41 And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.
42 And many believed on him there.

I do not where you got your, 2 Corinthians 4 from, but this is what it says.

2 Corinthians 4
1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Intro !

How could Mohammad deny the divinity of Jesus? Did he hate Jesus?

[Levi Jones]

Re: Intro !

So the Jews surround Jesus, point their fingers and demand answers.

John 10:26 - But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

John 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 - My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.

I find no problem find the fact that Jesus and God are one in that text. In fact, it is backed up repeatedly in John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.

If you read the Book of John, you would know.

So. When we look into the context Jesus is not telling the Jews that he is the son of God, rather than telling them : In purpose we are one.

The Jews though where not satisfied. They wanted to stone him.

Friend, you are not telling us anything we don't already know about the joos. They are rotten to their core and begging for Christ's perfection as are you people.

John 10:32 - Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
John 10:33 - The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Nothing makes me more sad than how many times my savior was almost killed by the joos.

Still, you are way off the mark. Looking further into John 10:
36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

If God Almighty called them Gods are we to take that literally ?? No!
God spoke to Moses and said: Behold, I have made you a God to Pharaoh.

Chapter and verse from the Bible, please. The Old Testament readily accepts the existence of other gods.

Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

In your own texts,

Those who disbelieve and turn from the way of Allah and then die disbelievers, Allah surely will not pardon them.

He is not really a God but that is the way the jewish language is made.

Here you have rambled off the argument, considering the Epistles were written in Greek and not by the JJJJOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!!! you are worried about, friend.

PS. I am untouched by the disgraceful comments made by several members of this forum. You do not follow Messiah´s example..

We preach exactly as we have been taught to by the Bible.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

[Ahmad_Deedat]

Re: Intro !

[QUOTE=Levi Jones;600777]Here you have rambled off the argument, considering the Epistles were written in Greek and not by the JJJJOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!!! you are worried about, friend.[QUOTE]

Exodus 7:1 - And the LORD said to Moses, See, I have made you a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.

The book of Exodus was not written in Greek..

[Lisa H]

Re: Intro !

[QUOTE=Ahmad_Deedat;600892][QUOTE=Levi Jones;600777]Here you have rambled off the argument, considering the Epistles were written in Greek and not by the JJJJOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!!! you are worried about, friend.

Exodus 7:1 - And the LORD said to Moses, See, I have made you a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.

The book of Exodus was not written in Greek..

You are using the wrong Bible. It says;
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

What has this got to do with Jesus being the Son of God.

[Ahmad_Deedat]

Re: Intro !

How could Mohammad deny the divinity of Jesus? Did he hate Jesus?

No. Quite the opposite..

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 34, Number 425:

Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya. Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 651:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I am the nearest of all the people to the son of Mary, and all the prophets are paternal brothers, and there has been no prophet between me and him (i.e. Jesus)."

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 652:

Allah's Apostle said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 658:

Allah's Apostle said "How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Quran and not by the law of Gospel."

Sunan Abu Dawud Book 37, Number 4310:

The Prophet (pbuh) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (pbuh). He will descend (to the earth). When you see him, recognize him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizya. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.

[James Dewitt]

Re: Intro !

Ahmad old friend, may I ask a question?
What do you think of the practice of stoning? I hear you Muslims are pretty hard on sluts, homersexurals and thieves.

[Lisa H]

Re: Intro !

...

So why don't you want to answer my questions?
Don't you like talking with women?

[Brother Temperance]

Re: Intro !

I´m on the job so I´ll have to make this short..

Please Mr Levi. Do not use verses out of context.. John 10:30 is not to be understood the way you are trying to.

Now.. What is the context really? Jesus trying to convince people that he is the son of God ?

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

John 10:29 - My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.

So. When we look into the context Jesus is not telling the Jews that he is the son of God, rather than telling them : In purpose we are one.

What on earth are you gibbering about? He says "I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." How can you read that in any way that denies his divinity? All that camel piss has rotted your brains.

[Billy Bob Jenkins]

Re: Intro !

No. Quite the opposite..

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 34, Number 425:

Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya. Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 651:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I am the nearest of all the people to the son of Mary, and all the prophets are paternal brothers, and there has been no prophet between me and him (i.e. Jesus)."

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 652:

Allah's Apostle said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 658:

Allah's Apostle said "How will you be when the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you and he will judge people by the Law of the Quran and not by the law of Gospel."

Sunan Abu Dawud Book 37, Number 4310:

The Prophet (pbuh) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (pbuh). He will descend (to the earth). When you see him, recognize him: a man of medium height, reddish fair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight the people for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizya. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray over him.

That just sounds like a lot of thinly veiled contempt for Jesus to me. It seems that if Mo loved Jesus, he would just admit the obvious truth that Jesus is the Son of God. After all, Jesus says God is His Father. Such scripture has been recited over and over for you, yet you, like Mudhammer, persist in denying the divinity of Jesus. So you are calling Jesus a liar. It sounds to me like you and Mohamhead hate Jesus. How do you expect to make friends if you hate Jesus?

[Lisa H]

Re: Intro !

Ahmad, why are you not wanting to answer my questions? We are all Brothers & Sisters here.

[Ahmad_Deedat]

Re: Intro !

Ahmad, why are you not wanting to answer my questions? We are all Brothers & Sisters here.

Dear Lisa.. It´s not that I do not want to answer your questions. But I have been working alot these past two days and there are many posts that need answering. Precious little time I´m afraid have been available..

That said..

You have taken the verses out of context. Jesus said he was the Son of God. Did you read the rest of John 10, again Jesus mentions God is his Father

No, Levi Jones used John 10:30 out of context. I brought it back into context. Reread my post.

I do not where you got your, 2 Corinthians 4 from, but this is what it says.

Let´s then have a look at 2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world (The Devil) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Who else blinded the minds of them which believe not?

So God, in this own words, calls the Devil, The God of this world. But the Devil is not really God is he?

Not all is to be taken literally..