[Didymus Much]

Re: Devout

...Maybe you shouldn't try to hate and prejudice your way to salvation, I very much doubt that will work...

Read the Bible (the WHOLE THING, this time, it's not really that big of a book), and ease your doubts.

...Do, pray tell, why the word "neighbor" in the Bible would not extend to Africans and Middle Easterners when much of the Bible takes place in Egypt and Israel?...

Because Jesus said so (in the sermon I linked to, the "Who are our neighbours..." one; you did read it, didn't you?).

...The amount of racial slurs on the website is over 9000.

They're trying, I'll give 'em that.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Devout

You are not schooling me on anything, only showing your ignorance.

For your attempted (and baseless) insult to have any effect, I'd have to respect your judgement.

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Devout

I feel there is nothing to be gained from the Book of Judges, wherein Samson removes the foreskins of 1000 Pharisees.

You've either got a very bad memory or you've never read Judges.

The majority of the Old Testament and Mose's Law is irrelevant, Jesus denied Mose's Law himself in John 8:7.

You can’t be a Christian if you don’t believe the Old Testament.

You do realize that Jesus was Jewish, right?

Is that all you can come back with? (I think you were replying to me, anyway.)

[ThisguyWillnotBeSaved]

Re: Devout

Nope, he's definitely schooling you. Even the Jesus-haters around here know Scripture better than you.

Try reading the Bible cover-to-cover and stop trying to Google your way to salvation.

YiC,

Zech

Yeah, because his entire post was not at all riddled with sarcasm and mocking the way you think and interpret the scriptures.

Maybe you shouldn't try to hate and prejudice your way to salvation, I very much doubt that will work. Do, pray tell, why the word "neighbor" in the Bible would not extend to Africans and Middle Easterners when much of the Bible takes place in Egypt and Israel?

The amount of racial slurs on the website is over 9000.

[ThisguyWillnotBeSaved]

Re: Devout

You do realize that Jesus was Jewish, right?

[Pim Pendergast]

Re: Devout

A fact cannot be changed, it is something that is indisputable, therefore if a fact interferes with one's belief or perception of the way things are, their beliefs and perceptions cannot be truth.

It is faith that cannot be changed.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I understand Matthew 7:1-2 perfectly, otherwise it would be ironic of me to quote the scripture in the same breath that I state that this forum is brimming with racism, bigotry, and hate.

No you don't. These verses are a warning against hypocrisy, not judging. Jesus will judge us as we judge others. Read the following verses.

Mat 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Jesus tells us to rid ourselves of hypocrisy so that we can judge others.

As far as Jesus' stance towards organized religion:

“Many will say to me: ‘Lord, did we not prophesy, expel demons, & perform many powerful works in your name?’ Yet I will confess to them: 'I never knew you! Get away from me', you workers of lawlessness." ~Matthew 7:21-23

Jesus isn't talking about organised religion here. He is talking about people who prophesied, exorcised demons and performed wonders yet deep down don't know God.

teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

In other words, teaching the commandments of men as though they were God's commandments. Jesus had nothing against God's commandments being taught.

Mat 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

"“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness. In that way you also, outwardly indeed, appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." ~Matthew 23:27,28

Read the passage in context. Jesus still expected people to obey the Pharisees.

Mat 7:1-3 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

"...[Jesus] went on to say to them:
“You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above.
You are from this world; I am not from this world." ~John 8:23

Men are from earth, Jesus is from heaven. Nothing about organised religion here.

It was the Church that acted against Jesus in His day, who looked for reasons to condemn Him, and them that called to Pontius Pilate for the release of a murderer, ensuring the Crucifixion of Jesus.

It was the Jews who acted against Jesus.

1 Thess 2:14-15 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

Jesus preached that every person should follow God in their own way, and was very much against organized religion.

He taught He was the only way to God.

Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

You must understand that in the original Hebrew, "Church" does not refer to a building, but simply a place of worship.

What is the Hebrew word for church? Do tell. The Greek word for church is Kyriakon, which means "Lord's house."

[Zechariah Smyth]

Re: Devout

You are not schooling me on anything, only showing your ignorance.

Nope, he's definitely schooling you. Even the Jesus-haters around here know Scripture better than you.

Try reading the Bible cover-to-cover and stop trying to Google your way to salvation.

YiC,

Zech

[ThisguyWillnotBeSaved]

Re: Devout

You are an egocentric one, aren't you? You honestly believe that there cannot possibly be life on other planets? Have you ever looked up at night? Those are not light bulbs, those are gigantic nuclear explosions trillions of trillions of miles away, and there are trillions of trillions of them. Too many to count. Each with it's own "habitable" zone and satellites, any number of which that have the exact same properties of Earth, yet none of which could possibly support life? Okay.

I bet you think 7 days to God means "7 rotations of the Earth," and that the universe is only 6,000 years old.

[ThisguyWillnotBeSaved]

Re: Devout

I find it freaking hilarious that an atheist has to school you in how to be a Christian!

You are not schooling me on anything, only showing your ignorance.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Devout

...I rather like all the accounts of Jesus' life though...

Really? Even Luke 19:27?

...Yes, I do think you have to pick and choose what is relevant and irrelevant in the Bible...

2 Timothy 3:16 (aka the other 3:16) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

See what it says there? ALL SCRIPTURE. Not just the bits and pieces that you can twist to align with your modern, secular (read: NON-Biblical) sentiments.

...The majority of the Old Testament and Mose's Law is irrelevant, Jesus denied Mose's Law himself in John 8:7...

John 8:7 "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

No denying of Moses' law there, liar. He's despairing that there were nothing but sinners around Him (I can almost hear the sigh).

On the complete contrary:

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Oh, and English grammar note: to indicate the possessive form of a name that ends in "s", place the apostrophe after the "s" like so: Moses'.

...I find it amusing that you are lecturing me with a picture of Ron Jeremy in your signature, and "Arrogant Atheist Dick" as your title.

I find it freaking hilarious that an atheist has to school you in how to be a Christian!

[Levi Jones]

Re: Devout

In that I believe in religion as taught by Jesus,

And what is the source of Jesus' teachings?

the Bible

Very good.

was written by man and therefore flawed.

So the source of Jesus' teachings is flawed, but you believe in Jesus' teachings.



"Jesus wept."

As such, we should not take it literally, but draw upon it for wisdom and interpret it ourselves.

And what if everyone has a different interpretation? Whose is right? They can't all be correct.

When presented with facts that clash with our beliefs, we should reevaluate our beliefs and change them accordingly.

What if they are Jesus' beliefs about divorce, fornication and adultery or Paul's against homosexuality? What is the point of calling yourself a Christian, if your beliefs are opposed to theirs? Are you going to use the corruption defense for all the parts you don't like?

Oh, and my favorite Bible passage is Matthew 7:1-2.

"Judge not, that ye may not be judged, for in what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged, and in what measure ye measure, it shall be measured to you."

I prefer the rest of it.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Jesus is saying hypocritical judgment is wrong.

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

This is probably my favorite sayings of Jesus.

Although the government is lying to us about the events that occurred in Roswell. A military surveillance balloon? Suuuuuuuure.

Aliens don't exist. We are the apple of God's eye. He wouldn't create a species more advanced than us.

[ThisguyWillnotBeSaved]

Re: Devout

So when scientists with all of their lab coats and set squares tell us that people cannot come back from the dead we must discount the Resurection?

YIC

It has not been refuted that people cannot rise from the dead. People are legally dead on a daily basis and are brought back to life, a lot of whom describe a blinding white light and a sense of peace and welcoming.

[ThisguyWillnotBeSaved]

Re: Devout

I.e. you refer to (tiny bits of) the Bible when it suits your purposes, and feel completely justified in ignoring the rest.

And then you call others hypocrites!

Where the h*** are they coming from this week? It's comedy fargin' gold!

I feel there is nothing to be gained from the Book of Judges, wherein Samson removes the foreskins of 1000 Pharisees. I also hate the book of Job. I rather like all the accounts of Jesus' life though.

Yes, I do think you have to pick and choose what is relevant and irrelevant in the Bible. The majority of the Old Testament and Mose's Law is irrelevant, Jesus denied Mose's Law himself in John 8:7.

I find it amusing that you are lecturing me with a picture of Ron Jeremy in your signature, and "Arrogant Atheist Dick" as your title.

[Didymus Much]

Re: Devout

...It was the Church that acted against Jesus in His day...

Uh, NO. The Church didn't exist before Jesus founded it:

Matthew 16:18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

The Jews had temples and synagogues, not churches.

You really should read the Bible someday. It's a hell of a book.

[ThisguyWillnotBeSaved]

Re: Devout

Jesus taught neither of those things. Of His church He said:

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

And of Scripture He said:

Jn 10:35-36 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

If you're going to make assertions about what Jesus taught, please quote or reference Scripture.



How would you like it if we didn't take your post literally and interpreted it for ourselves? If facts clash with our beliefs, then the facts should be reevaluated and changed accordingly.



You need to read The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1-5)

A fact cannot be changed, it is something that is indisputable, therefore if a fact interferes with one's belief or perception of the way things are, their beliefs and perceptions cannot be truth.

I understand Matthew 7:21 perfectly, otherwise it would be ironic of me to quote the scripture in the same breath that I state that this forum is brimming with racism, bigotry, and hate.

As far as Jesus' stance towards organized religion:

“Many will say to me: ‘Lord, did we not prophesy, expel demons, & perform many powerful works in your name?’ Yet I will confess to them: 'I never knew you! Get away from me', you workers of lawlessness." ~Matthew 7:21-23

"You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you: ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshiping... because *they teach commands of men* as doctrines.’” ~Matthew 15:7,8

"“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness. In that way you also, outwardly indeed, appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." ~Matthew 23:27,28

"...[Jesus] went on to say to them:
“You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above.
You are from this world; I am not from this world." ~John 8:23

It was the Church that acted against Jesus in His day, who looked for reasons to condemn Him, and them that called to Pontius Pilate for the release of a murderer, ensuring the Crucifixion of Jesus. Jesus preached that every person should follow God in their own way, and was very much against organized religion. You must understand that in the original Hebrew, "Church" does not refer to a building, but simply a place of worship.