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Please help with contradictions in the Christmas story
Yes! Merry Christmas everybody!
It is Harsha Shah here. I am sorry that I have not been around very much but I have been very busy. Now it is school holidays here is Scotland and I am doing some Christmas preparations and having more time to write. Yes. We are having a vegetarian Christmas dinner with some friends although we do not share the christian faith in my family.
This autumn I have been teaching my class but also RME that is religious and moral education to some older children, and we were going through the Christmas story early this week. I have been studying it at the University in detail. It comes from the gospels of Matthew and Luke. It is a compilation. We were also reading the lyrics of some carols. Yes. Some of the children are taking French (others take Gaelic) and they find "Away in a manger" a bit funny because of that. Yes.
I hope I am not offending you but one of the children, a girl, came very well prepared and she opposed everything. I am hoping you will be able to help me. She was referring to the contradictions between the two stories and historical records and there was quite a fight between the children.
The date? Where does December 25 come from? Does it come from Mithraism? Is it only tradition of the Catholic Church as I have not been finding any other explanations? Yes?
The year? The Romans were keeping records and Herod died 4 BC. The census of Quirinius in the Luke could not have been taking place before 6 AD. There are no records of a census with illiterate people finding out their genealogy and going to the hometown of distant ancestors. The Romans were effective and this would have been very ineffective (the girl's words, yes). Herod and Quirinius were not simultaneous. I could not answer this one expect by saying that the girl is right and Matthew or Luke or both have been making mistakes. Yes?
The massacre of the innocents? Why were the Romans not reporting it? I answered that the records of that period are not necessarily reliable but unfortunately the girl said "my point exactly".
Where did Jesus go from Bethlehem? Luke is writing that the family went to Nazareth but Matthew is saying they fled to Egypt. Yes. My answer was the same as above, yes it was.
The star? If this is a miracle it does not need explanations but if it was a comet or something the year is off. The girl was also asking why the mages needed a star to guide them from Jerusalem to Bethlehem as it is only 8 kilometres. She was being a bit sassy by this point and I hope I am not offending you with this story. Were they blind she asked.
Matthew is telling that Herod knew that Jesus was born but all the people of his court had forgotten this by the time Jesus was an adult. Yes. Is this reasonable? I was able to answer this one as kings and important people meet many strangers and hear many stories and cannot remember all of them. Yes. I once waved my hand at Prince Charles but I am thinking that he probably does not remember the incident. OK the girl said.
At this point it was about the virgin birth and I had to close the discussion as the boys were starting to make lewd comments about the virgin birth and about the shepherds and sheep. Yes. One more point: the girl said that sheep were not outside at night during wintertime in ancient Israel. This one is about the date.
I was trying to explain that the message of a good story is not in history but in the fact that it is relating to us and giving us inspired awe and good will. The children mostly wanted to know how many presents they were getting. I am thinking that I did not do a very good job. Yes. I have been receiving some angry phone calls and e-mails from Christian parents last night. I am asking you why the stories are contradictory and not supported by history. I am thinking that my answer of them relating to us to make us better is still a good one. Yes?
I am hoping you all have a wonderful Christmas and that your wishes come true. Yes.
It is Harsha Shah here. I am sorry that I have not been around very much but I have been very busy. Now it is school holidays here is Scotland and I am doing some Christmas preparations and having more time to write. Yes. We are having a vegetarian Christmas dinner with some friends although we do not share the christian faith in my family.
This autumn I have been teaching my class but also RME that is religious and moral education to some older children, and we were going through the Christmas story early this week. I have been studying it at the University in detail. It comes from the gospels of Matthew and Luke. It is a compilation. We were also reading the lyrics of some carols. Yes. Some of the children are taking French (others take Gaelic) and they find "Away in a manger" a bit funny because of that. Yes.
I hope I am not offending you but one of the children, a girl, came very well prepared and she opposed everything. I am hoping you will be able to help me. She was referring to the contradictions between the two stories and historical records and there was quite a fight between the children.
The date? Where does December 25 come from? Does it come from Mithraism? Is it only tradition of the Catholic Church as I have not been finding any other explanations? Yes?
The year? The Romans were keeping records and Herod died 4 BC. The census of Quirinius in the Luke could not have been taking place before 6 AD. There are no records of a census with illiterate people finding out their genealogy and going to the hometown of distant ancestors. The Romans were effective and this would have been very ineffective (the girl's words, yes). Herod and Quirinius were not simultaneous. I could not answer this one expect by saying that the girl is right and Matthew or Luke or both have been making mistakes. Yes?
The massacre of the innocents? Why were the Romans not reporting it? I answered that the records of that period are not necessarily reliable but unfortunately the girl said "my point exactly".
Where did Jesus go from Bethlehem? Luke is writing that the family went to Nazareth but Matthew is saying they fled to Egypt. Yes. My answer was the same as above, yes it was.
The star? If this is a miracle it does not need explanations but if it was a comet or something the year is off. The girl was also asking why the mages needed a star to guide them from Jerusalem to Bethlehem as it is only 8 kilometres. She was being a bit sassy by this point and I hope I am not offending you with this story. Were they blind she asked.
Matthew is telling that Herod knew that Jesus was born but all the people of his court had forgotten this by the time Jesus was an adult. Yes. Is this reasonable? I was able to answer this one as kings and important people meet many strangers and hear many stories and cannot remember all of them. Yes. I once waved my hand at Prince Charles but I am thinking that he probably does not remember the incident. OK the girl said.
At this point it was about the virgin birth and I had to close the discussion as the boys were starting to make lewd comments about the virgin birth and about the shepherds and sheep. Yes. One more point: the girl said that sheep were not outside at night during wintertime in ancient Israel. This one is about the date.
I was trying to explain that the message of a good story is not in history but in the fact that it is relating to us and giving us inspired awe and good will. The children mostly wanted to know how many presents they were getting. I am thinking that I did not do a very good job. Yes. I have been receiving some angry phone calls and e-mails from Christian parents last night. I am asking you why the stories are contradictory and not supported by history. I am thinking that my answer of them relating to us to make us better is still a good one. Yes?
I am hoping you all have a wonderful Christmas and that your wishes come true. Yes.
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