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-   -   Does the Bible really say so many mean things? (https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=117081)

thegrimmreaper 11-26-2019 05:37 AM

Does the Bible really say so many mean things?
 
is... is this for real? like, not only this article, but all the other weird ass articles, this whole website, all of y'all... is this for real? like, are y'all actually being serious? is this satire? because this really seems like satire to me. the way y'all act, talk, the things you post about, it all seems like such satire. like, it seems like the kind of thing someone trying to mock christians would make. no offence, but i just have a hard time believing all y'all could really be this piffleing stupid? like, how can y'all just sit around and ignore blatant facts? it doesn't make sense to me, personally speaking. and, as someone who was raised christian, i gotta say... i've seen some really anti christian behavior on here. most, if not all, the bullshit y'all spew on this site is, like.... violently anti christian in nature. at least, according to what the bible says, anyways. something i'd like to think you'd have at least some vague knowledge of. but, like, go off i guess? :dntknw:

MitzaLizalor 11-26-2019 11:21 AM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
:kjv1611:
click to read.

James Hutchins 11-26-2019 11:51 AM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrimmreaper (Post 1260976)
is... is this for real? like, not only this article, but all the other weird ass articles, this whole website, all of y'all... is this for real? like, are y'all actually being serious? is this satire? because this really seems like satire to me. the way y'all act, talk, the things you post about, it all seems like such satire. like, it seems like the kind of thing someone trying to mock christians would make. no offence, but i just have a hard time believing all y'all could really be this piffleing stupid? like, how can y'all just sit around and ignore blatant facts? it doesn't make sense to me, personally speaking. and, as someone who was raised christian, i gotta say... i've seen some really anti christian behavior on here. most, if not all, the bullshit y'all spew on this site is, like.... violently anti christian in nature. at least, according to what the bible says, anyways. something i'd like to think you'd have at least some vague knowledge of. but, like, go off i guess? :dntknw:

I have to wonder, when you met your parents, were they for real? How did you know? Perhaps yopu had a cousin that lived half way across the flat Earth, one day you met them, how do you know they are for real? How do you know any of this ir real and not just a dream? A momentary flash of conscienceness and death.


Now that the crusties are cracked from your mind, consider the simple irrefutable facts, clean and simple, Occams Razor if you will.


Everything simply cannot be an accident. Way too complex. So the deity that created it all also provided a manual, a book, the KJV Holy Bible to guide the creatures He created. He had to make the book simple enough for the dimmest of beings to understand it. It had to be clear so no one would have to be a brainiac scholar to grasp it.
So you have the Bible and yourself. Live EXACTLY according to the Bible and you can be a True Christian™. That simple.


Look online,. you might find this of help.

Didymus Much 11-26-2019 03:59 PM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrimmreaper (Post 1260976)
most, if not all, the bullshit y'all spew on this site is, like.... violently anti christian in nature. at least, according to what the bible says...

Then it will be SO EASY for you to point out EXACTLY which parts of the Bible these people are ignoring/forgetting/whatever. :squee:


So get to it. Just no using your poor memory of "what the bible says"; quote WHAT THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS in your response (book, chapter, verse). :thumbsup:


Good luck, have fun, and remember, let's be careful out there.

Isabella White 11-26-2019 09:35 PM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrimmreaper (Post 1260976)
is... is this for real? like, not only this article, but all the other weird ass articles, this whole website, all of y'all... is this for real? like, are y'all actually being serious? is this satire? because this really seems like satire to me. the way y'all act, talk, the things you post about, it all seems like such satire. like, it seems like the kind of thing someone trying to mock christians would make. no offence, but i just have a hard time believing all y'all could really be this piffleing stupid? like, how can y'all just sit around and ignore blatant facts? it doesn't make sense to me, personally speaking. and, as someone who was raised christian, i gotta say... i've seen some really anti christian behavior on here. most, if not all, the bullshit y'all spew on this site is, like.... violently anti christian in nature. at least, according to what the bible says, anyways. something i'd like to think you'd have at least some vague knowledge of. but, like, go off i guess? :dntknw:

Dear Mr. Reaper: To you I extend a careful :welcome-sign:, as it is apparent that you are here to have a bit of fun with mock the :true-fancy: servants of the :lord-fancy: :jesus-fancy: :christ-fancy:. I see that this is your first posting here and, as is customary with all of our newcomers, we would like it if you would head over to our friendly Introduction Forum, where you can post a proper introductory message. That forum is here:

https://www.landoverbaptist.net/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Kindly pay close attention to our request at the top of that page, which is:

The introduction forum Attention Unsaved Trash: This the ONLY subforum you can start threads in. Here is where you introduce yourself. Tell us what church you go to and what your favorite Bible verse is and how you came to find Jesus.

It is noted that you have already received an Infraction Notice from one of our very cordial Moderators. I do so hope that you will be cooperative during your brief time with us, as we study the glorious Gospel of the blessed :lord-fancy: and :savior-fancy:, :jesus-fancy: :christ-fancy: together.

Sincerely, Isabella W.
P.S. It is my prayer that you will find true salvation here at :forum-fancy:, and an excellent way of achieving that is with this: :kjv1611-read:

Basilissa 11-26-2019 10:04 PM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrimmreaper (Post 1260976)
is... is this for real? like, not only this article, but all the other weird ass articles, this whole website, all of y'all... is this for real? like, are y'all actually being serious?

Yes, we are 100% serious. Here at Landover we are dedicated to preaching the Word of God "as is" rather than "as we would wish it to be."

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like, it seems like the kind of thing someone trying to mock christians would make.
Citing straight from the Bible is mocking Christians? :o We do mock false Christians, the denominations which claim to love God but ignore 90% of what God said in the Bible.

Quote:

no offence, but i just have a hard time believing all y'all could really be this piffleing stupid?
You think the Bible is stupid? We are just messengers, sweetie. Blame God, not us. Moreover, I'm totally OK with being a fool for Jesus:

1 Corinthians 4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.

Quote:

like, how can y'all just sit around and ignore blatant facts?
Because that's what God wants us to do:

1 Corinthians 3:18-20
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

We prefer to trust God rather than logic:

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Quote:

it doesn't make sense to me, personally speaking. and, as someone who was raised christian, i gotta say... i've seen some really anti christian behavior on here. most, if not all, the bullshit y'all spew on this site is, like.... violently anti christian in nature.
I'm guessing your family didn't do much Bible reading, huh? :thumbdown:

Quote:

at least, according to what the bible says, anyways. something i'd like to think you'd have at least some vague knowledge of. but, like, go off i guess? :dntknw:
I'll donate $500 to your favorite charity if you prove to me that what we True Christians™ say is contrary to what the Holy Bible says. :thumbsup:

thegrimmreaper 11-27-2019 08:17 AM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
i see you were all quite busy in the time that i was not online. there is a lot here for me to dissect, but fear not, i shall address each of you in time. i should warn you now, this will be a long read, and i encourage you to read every word of it, as opposed to skimming it, so that i might be understood fully and each of my words made known and clear. i'd also like to note that the manner in which i speak may be interpreted as sarcasm, simply from how, for lack of a better term, "proper" my wording is. i am not trying to be sarcastic but, rather, i am trying to remain civilized and respectful. i'd like to avoid starting a fight, if at all possible, which is why i will be writing in the manner i do, to keep my wits about me and also to not be misunderstood. now, i will begin by addressing a certain james hutchins:
Quote:

I have to wonder, when you met your parents, were they for real? How did you know? Perhaps yopu had a cousin that lived half way across the flat Earth, one day you met them, how do you know they are for real? How do you know any of this ir real and not just a dream? A momentary flash of conscienceness and death.
i fear you may have misunderstood me. or, perhaps you didn't, and are simply trying to be smart with me. regardless, allow me to make known my original intention, should there be any sort of confusion regarding so. you see, sir, i was not asking the existential question of whether or not you, this site, or the articles contained therein actually existed or whether we simply are floating around in some sort of fever dream or simulation but, rather, how serious you and the others on this site about the things you speak of. now, that's not to say i doubted you, but rather that the manner in which many of the topics i skimmed were written seemed to be, in my own opinion, very exaggerated. exaggerated, in this sense, meaning not that i was doubting your belief system but, rather, the way in which it was addressed. you see, i have seen a number of non religious folks mocking christians by speaking in extremely exaggerated and satirical ways, so as to poke a little fun. take, for example, someone of a young age mocking an elder (elder meaning a person older than themselves, not elderly people specifically) by saying something such as, "back in my day, a soda only cost a nickel!". now, seeing as how it is quite obvious that not all older folk speak in that manner, it becomes quite obvious that fun is being made, albeit at the expense of the elder in question. in this way, i have seen many a person mocking religious folks by making extreme and exaggerated comments that, as one might expect, do not match the beliefs or mannerisms of all religious folk. that is what i was asking in my original post, you see, as i wanted to make clear whether the people i was dealing with were, in fact, serious and not making exaggerated comments simply for effect.

Quote:

Now that the crusties are cracked from your mind, consider the simple irrefutable facts, clean and simple, Occams Razor if you will.
Quote:


Everything simply cannot be an accident. Way too complex. So the deity that created it all also provided a manual, a book, the KJV Holy Bible to guide the creatures He created. He had to make the book simple enough for the dimmest of beings to understand it. It had to be clear so no one would have to be a brainiac scholar to grasp it.
So you have the Bible and yourself. Live EXACTLY according to the Bible and you can be a True Christian™. That simple.


Look online,. you might find this of help. *picture of "the kjv bible for mormons"*
now, although my brain did not have any "crusties", i appreciate the sentiment. nowhere in my original post did i state that the universe, and everything contained therein, were placed here by accident. now, i don't have time to get into the very long discussion that is the creation of the universe, so we'll skim over this broad topic. perhaps we shall discuss it in more detail sometime in the future but, for now, we will let that topic rest. i have read the kjv bible many a time before and, although it may shock you, i had no trouble understanding the words contained within it. also, while this doesn't pertain to the subject at hand, i'd like to note your use of the term "True Christian™". now, i do not know how old you are or how up to date you are with youth slang, but in this current day and age capitalizing the first letter(s) of a word(s) and adding the trademark symbol after it typically denotes the word(s) in question are to be taken with some sarcasm. it should be noted that this is not true in all cases, but it is the case in a very large number of cases. again, this has nothing to do with the topic, i just felt that i should inform you of this, so that you might be taken a little more seriously in the future. now, as for your recommendation of "the kjv bible for mormons", i must say, i respect that. it was certainly a very good and, admittedly, funny jab and one i am probably deserving of. i realize i may have come off a little strong in my original post, and i'd like to apologize for that. i was in quite an unpleasant mood at the time and ended up taking some of it out here. i hope that any future interaction we have might be more pleasant and civilized, as i feel starting a fight or being sarcastic would get us nowhere but in a bad mood, and i'd much rather we be on at least somewhat friendly terms. i don't have the time or energy to make enemies, and i assume you don't either. i wish you no ill and hope you have a pleasant rest of your day, sir.


now, i'd like to address didymus much:
Quote:

Then it will be SO EASY for you to point out EXACTLY which parts of the Bible these people are ignoring/forgetting/whatever.
So get to it. Just no using your poor memory of "what the bible says"; quote WHAT THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS in your response (book, chapter, verse).
now, forgive me if i'm interpreting this wrong, as that is very easy to do over the internet, but i feel as if there is some, for lack of a better word, "venom" to your words. a sort of smart aleck-y tone, if you will. again, forgive me if i am incorrect, that's just the vibe i got from the way you worded things. aside from that, i'd be glad to try to clear things up somewhat. keep in mind that the bible is a very long book, and i do not have every bit memorized, but i will do my best to find at least a few passages to cite. i don't have enough time at the moment to read the bible cover to cover to find every specific instance in which it's words might be misinterpreted or forgotten, so keep that in mind as i continue.


now, seeing as how the bible is very broad, i cannot address each and every issue contained within it nor every issue contained here on this site. what i will do is pull a few broad passages, and perhaps dive further from there. now, i stated in my original post that i saw a lot of anti christian behavior on here. that behavior, for the most part, was a lot of harsh judgement and harsh or even violent words. i only briefly skimmed a few odd posts, so that is what i'll be referencing. on the subject of judging others for their actions, lifestyle, sins, etc, i bring to light a few passages.


the first of those being luke 6:37, which states "judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. for with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. and he spake a parable unto them, can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? the disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. and why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? either how canst thou say to thy brother, brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye." as one can see, this passage explains that one should not judge nor condemn another, lest that judgement be placed upon you. it even goes on to call those who judge and condemn others hypocrites, as they, too, have sinned nor are innocent.


now i'd like to quote john 8:1, which goes as folllows: "jesus went abunto the mount of olives. and bearly in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. and the scribes and pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, they say unto him, master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. now moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? this they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. but jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. so when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. and again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground." again, we see here that the bible, and even jesus himself, states that one should not judge, berate, or commit acts of violence against others when we, ourselves, are not perfect and have committed wrongdoings in the past.


next, we address luke 6:31, which states: "and as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. for if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. and if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. and if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. but love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. be ye therefore merciful, as your father also is merciful." in this passage, we are told to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. to love our enemies and be merciful to them, as god is to all of us. like the other passages i cited, this passage also advocates for kindness and lack of judgement, and especially doesn't advocate for angry or violent acts against those whom we are enemies with or do not like (such as, for example, someone with whom we disagree, whether it be about morals, actions, lifestyle, or otherwise).


moving on to james 4:11; "speak not evil one of another, brethren. he that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. there is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?" here we see that we are not to speak ill of others, for we are not the ones who made the laws nor are we the judge (the judge, of course, meaning god). it also states "who art thou that judgest another?" which we can translate into more modern terms as "who are you to judge another?", in reference, again, to the fact that not one of us is perfect or without fault.


in matthew 12:36 it says: "but i say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. for by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." meaning that each person shall by judged accordingly, by god, once they die. to emphasize, they will be judged BY GOD, not man. it is not your job to judge others for their sins, and is stated several times by the bible. it also states that you will be judged based upon your own words and actions. seeing as how it's already been made clear that god frowns upon us judging one another, and especially upon us committing violent acts against one another, that he would be none too pleased to see the sort of hateful and even violent things i have seen people on here state. for example, an award/badge/whatever you'd like to call it, titled "punched the most queers" and another called "tell her once". violence against women and lgbt folk is a common theme here, i've noted, at least from what i've seen and i only chipped the tip of the iceberg. on the subject of the lgbt, i shall address that in brief as well.


onto ephesians 4:29: "let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." here we see that we are not to spew harsh words against those with which we disagree but, rather, use kind words to help build them up. again, in case you didn't hear me the first time, use KIND WORDS to build them up, NOT violence or hate. now, onto the subject of lgbt. as we all know, most christians believe that homosexuality is a sin, but the bible actually never explicitly states that it is one. let's take the story of sodom and gomorrah as an example, as that is a passage that a lot of christians quote when discussing whether homosexuality is a sin.


genesis 19:1-14 and 24-26 state: "the two angels came to sodom in the evening, and lot was sitting in the gateway of sodom. when lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed down with his face to the ground. he said, 'please, my lords, turn aside to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you can rise early and go on your way.' they said, 'no; we will spend the night in the square.' but he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. but before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to lot, 'where are the men who came to you tonight? bring them out to us, so that we may know them.' lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, and said, 'i beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. look, i have two daughters who have not known a man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.' but they replied, 'stand back!' and they said, 'this fellow came here as an alien, and he would play the judge! now we will deal worse with you than with them.' then they pressed hard against the man lot, and came near the door to break it down. but the men inside reached out their hands and brought lot into the house with them, and shut the door. and they struck with blindness the men who were at the door of the house, both small and great, so that they were unable to find the door. then the men said to lot, 'have you anyone else here? sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or anyone you have in the city – bring them out of the place. for we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the lord, and the lord has sent us to destroy it.' so lot went out and said to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, 'up, get out of this place; for the lord is about to destroy the city.' . . . then the lord rained on sodom and gomorrah sulfur and fire from the lord out of heaven; and he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. but lot’s wife, behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt." the story of sodom and gomorrah is about hospitality and the social requirement of helping visitors. when reviewed carefully it becomes evident that it is not a story having anything to do with homosexuality. the men in the town decide to do one of the most inhospitable things possible: rape. it's highly unlikely that all the men of sodom were gay, so why would they want “to know” (a euphemism used in the bible to refer to sexual relations) the two foreigners/angels except to have forced sexual relations with them? in the near east during ancient times soldiers commonly used homosexual rape as a way of humiliating their enemies. (david f. greenberg, "the construction of homosexuality") the soldiers wanted to break the spirit of their defeated enemies and “treat them like women” by raping them. the practice was not driven by sexual desire, but rather by brutality and hatred toward the enemy. the sin of sodom is about abuse, insult to ones guests, and inhospitality to those in need, not aboutt the committed gay relationships that exist today. in one part of the lot offers his two daughters “who have not known a man” to the town crowd. the story assumes that lot is expected, by societal norms, to keep the visitors safe and that they have priority over his own daughters. lot’s offer makes very clear the value of women, relative to men, in that culture. in this story women are not protected, and women become the means by which men are protected. also, if the men of the town were truly all gay, wouldn't lot have known that they would have no sexual interest in his daughters? so this argument is invalid. i won't go into any further detail regarding lgbt matters in the bible, but i encourage you all to read through this christian site, which entails exactly what the various passages regarding homosexuality mean and how they are misinterpreted: http://hoperemainsonline.com/


now, onto isabella white:
Quote:

Dear Mr. Reaper: To you I extend a careful :welcome-sign:, as it is apparent that you are here to have a bit of fun with mock the :true-fancy: servants of the :lord-fancy::jesus-fancy::christ-fancy:. I see that this is your first posting here and, as is customary with all of our newcomers, we would like it if you would head over to our friendly Introduction Forum, where you can post a proper introductory message.


ah, yes. as you pointed out, yes, my original intent when signing up for this site was to have a little fun at the expense of those christians which use this website. as i stated previously in this reply, i was in quite an unpleasant mood at the time, and i took it out on all of you. once again, i'd like to apologize for that, and keep the rest of the discussions we may have friendly and civil. hopefully we can all move on from that, and continue in a more polite manner. i'd also like to note that i was unaware that an introduction post was required, and i appreciate you informing me of this. i will be sure to do that once i have finished with this post. i wish you the best, ms./mrs. white, and may you have a pleasant thanksgiving (assuming you're celebrating, that is)


now, onto basilissa:
Quote:

You think the Bible is stupid? We are just messengers, sweetie. Blame God, not us. Moreover, I'm totally OK with being a fool for Jesus
i fear you misunderstood. not once in my original post did i claim the bible was stupid, but i apologize if it seemed that way. again, as stated a couple other times in this reply, i wrote that original post while i was in a very bad mood and it came out quite harsh now that i'm rereading it. i apologize for my previous behavior, and would like to continue this conversation in as civil a manner as possible.


Quote:

Because that's what God wants us to do . . . We prefer to trust God rather than logic
so, allow me to get this straight. you literally just admitted that you ignore blatant facts and "trust god rather than logic", meaning that, whether intentional or not, you just admitted that both god and the bible are illogical. forgive me if this comes across too harshly, but how does that help your argument? you literally just proved my point that christians ignore blatantly true fact and logic, and that god and the bible aren't logical or fact based. which, if you believe in god, can't be true. if god and the bible aren't based in fact or logic, as you stated, that would just be proof that god doesn't exist. in order for him to exist, the bible would have to be rooted in solid logic and fact (that was actually able to be proved to be undeniably true, by science/history/and etc), which you just stated was false. if the bible and everything contained therein was true, and god did exist, and this was undeniable fact, everyone would believe in god and become christian (or worship satan, i suppose, depending on the individual in question), but they haven't. so you kind of just... disproved yourself, without realizing it? i'm not saying that in a jeering way, mind you, i'm simply quoting what you said to the word.

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I'm guessing your family didn't do much Bible reading, huh?



actually, we did, but i appreciate your concern.


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I'll donate $500 to your favorite charity if you prove to me that what we True Christians™ say is contrary to what the Holy Bible says.



that's a very kind offer of you, and one i'd very much like to see come to fruition. however, i fear that even if i did prove you wrong, you'd refuse to admit it. not to say that you would deny it, but it has been my experience that a lot of folks (religious or not) don't often like to admit they were wrong, even when given proof.

MitzaLizalor 11-27-2019 01:04 PM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrimmreaper (Post 1261067)
i see you were all quite busy in the time that i was not online. there is a lot here for me to dissect, but fear not, i shall address each of you in time. i should warn you now, this will be a long read, and i encourage you to read every word of it, as opposed to skimming it, so that i might be understood fully and each of my words made known and clear. i'd also like to note that the manner in which i speak may be interpreted as sarcasm, simply from how, for lack of a better term, "proper" my wording is. i am not trying to be sarcastic but, rather, i am trying to remain civilized and respectful. i'd like to avoid starting a fight, if at all possible, which is why i will be writing in the manner i do, to keep my wits about me and also to not be misunderstood. now, i will begin by addressing a certain james hutchins:
i fear you may have misunderstood me. or, perhaps you didn't, and are simply trying to be smart with me. regardless, allow me to make known my original intention, should there be any sort of confusion regarding so. you see, sir, i was not asking the existential question of whether or not you, this site, or the articles contained therein actually existed or whether we simply are floating around in some sort of fever dream or simulation but, rather, how serious you and the others on this site about the things you speak of. now, that's not to say i doubted you, but rather that the manner in which many of the topics i skimmed were written seemed to be, in my own opinion, very exaggerated. exaggerated, in this sense, meaning not that i was doubting your belief system but, rather, the way in which it was addressed. you see, i have seen a number of non religious folks mocking christians by speaking in extremely exaggerated and satirical ways, so as to poke a little fun. take, for example, someone of a young age mocking an elder (elder meaning a person older than themselves, not elderly people specifically) by saying something such as, "back in my day, a soda only cost a nickel!". now, seeing as how it is quite obvious that not all older folk speak in that manner, it becomes quite obvious that fun is being made, albeit at the expense of the elder in question. in this way, i have seen many a person mocking religious folks by making extreme and exaggerated comments that, as one might expect, do not match the beliefs or mannerisms of all religious folk. that is what i was asking in my original post, you see, as i wanted to make clear whether the people i was dealing with were, in fact, serious and not making exaggerated comments simply for effect.

now, although my brain did not have any "crusties", i appreciate the sentiment. nowhere in my original post did i state that the universe, and everything contained therein, were placed here by accident. now, i don't have time to get into the very long discussion that is the creation of the universe, so we'll skim over this broad topic. perhaps we shall discuss it in more detail sometime in the future but, for now, we will let that topic rest. i have read the kjv bible many a time before and, although it may shock you, i had no trouble understanding the words contained within it. also, while this doesn't pertain to the subject at hand, i'd like to note your use of the term "True Christian™". now, i do not know how old you are or how up to date you are with youth slang, but in this current day and age capitalizing the first letter(s) of a word(s) and adding the trademark symbol after it typically denotes the word(s) in question are to be taken with some sarcasm. it should be noted that this is not true in all cases, but it is the case in a very large number of cases. again, this has nothing to do with the topic, i just felt that i should inform you of this, so that you might be taken a little more seriously in the future. now, as for your recommendation of "the kjv bible for mormons", i must say, i respect that. it was certainly a very good and, admittedly, funny jab and one i am probably deserving of. i realize i may have come off a little strong in my original post, and i'd like to apologize for that. i was in quite an unpleasant mood at the time and ended up taking some of it out here. i hope that any future interaction we have might be more pleasant and civilized, as i feel starting a fight or being sarcastic would get us nowhere but in a bad mood, and i'd much rather we be on at least somewhat friendly terms. i don't have the time or energy to make enemies, and i assume you don't either. i wish you no ill and hope you have a pleasant rest of your day, sir.

now, i'd like to address didymus much:


now, forgive me if i'm interpreting this wrong, as that is very easy to do over the internet, but i feel as if there is some, for lack of a better word, "venom" to your words. a sort of smart aleck-y tone, if you will. again, forgive me if i am incorrect, that's just the vibe i got from the way you worded things. aside from that, i'd be glad to try to clear things up somewhat. keep in mind that the bible is a very long book, and i do not have every bit memorized, but i will do my best to find at least a few passages to cite. i don't have enough time at the moment to read the bible cover to cover to find every specific instance in which it's words might be misinterpreted or forgotten, so keep that in mind as i continue.


now, seeing as how the bible is very broad, i cannot address each and every issue contained within it nor every issue contained here on this site. what i will do is pull a few broad passages, and perhaps dive further from there. now, i stated in my original post that i saw a lot of anti christian behavior on here. that behavior, for the most part, was a lot of harsh judgement and harsh or even violent words. i only briefly skimmed a few odd posts, so that is what i'll be referencing. on the subject of judging others for their actions, lifestyle, sins, etc, i bring to light a few passages.


the first of those being luke 6:37, which states "judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. for with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. and he spake a parable unto them, can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? the disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. and why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? either how canst thou say to thy brother, brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother’s eye." as one can see, this passage explains that one should not judge nor condemn another, lest that judgement be placed upon you. it even goes on to call those who judge and condemn others hypocrites, as they, too, have sinned nor are innocent.


now i'd like to quote john 8:1, which goes as folllows: "jesus went abunto the mount of olives. and bearly in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. and the scribes and pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, they say unto him, master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. now moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? this they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. but jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. so when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. and again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground." again, we see here that the bible, and even jesus himself, states that one should not judge, berate, or commit acts of violence against others when we, ourselves, are not perfect and have committed wrongdoings in the past.


next, we address luke 6:31, which states: "and as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. for if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. and if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. and if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. but love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. be ye therefore merciful, as your father also is merciful." in this passage, we are told to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. to love our enemies and be merciful to them, as god is to all of us. like the other passages i cited, this passage also advocates for kindness and lack of judgement, and especially doesn't advocate for angry or violent acts against those whom we are enemies with or do not like (such as, for example, someone with whom we disagree, whether it be about morals, actions, lifestyle, or otherwise).


moving on to james 4:11; "speak not evil one of another, brethren. he that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. there is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?" here we see that we are not to speak ill of others, for we are not the ones who made the laws nor are we the judge (the judge, of course, meaning god). it also states "who art thou that judgest another?" which we can translate into more modern terms as "who are you to judge another?", in reference, again, to the fact that not one of us is perfect or without fault.


in matthew 12:36 it says: "but i say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. for by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." meaning that each person shall by judged accordingly, by god, once they die. to emphasize, they will be judged BY GOD, not man. it is not your job to judge others for their sins, and is stated several times by the bible. it also states that you will be judged based upon your own words and actions. seeing as how it's already been made clear that god frowns upon us judging one another, and especially upon us committing violent acts against one another, that he would be none too pleased to see the sort of hateful and even violent things i have seen people on here state. for example, an award/badge/whatever you'd like to call it, titled "punched the most queers" and another called "tell her once". violence against women and lgbt folk is a common theme here, i've noted, at least from what i've seen and i only chipped the tip of the iceberg. on the subject of the lgbt, i shall address that in brief as well.


onto ephesians 4:29: "let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." here we see that we are not to spew harsh words against those with which we disagree but, rather, use kind words to help build them up. again, in case you didn't hear me the first time, use KIND WORDS to build them up, NOT violence or hate. now, onto the subject of lgbt. as we all know, most christians believe that homosexuality is a sin, but the bible actually never explicitly states that it is one. let's take the story of sodom and gomorrah as an example, as that is a passage that a lot of christians quote when discussing whether homosexuality is a sin.


genesis 19:1-14 and 24-26 state: "the two angels came to sodom in the evening, and lot was sitting in the gateway of sodom. when lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed down with his face to the ground. he said, 'please, my lords, turn aside to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you can rise early and go on your way.' they said, 'no; we will spend the night in the square.' but he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. but before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to lot, 'where are the men who came to you tonight? bring them out to us, so that we may know them.' lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, and said, 'i beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. look, i have two daughters who have not known a man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.' but they replied, 'stand back!' and they said, 'this fellow came here as an alien, and he would play the judge! now we will deal worse with you than with them.' then they pressed hard against the man lot, and came near the door to break it down. but the men inside reached out their hands and brought lot into the house with them, and shut the door. and they struck with blindness the men who were at the door of the house, both small and great, so that they were unable to find the door. then the men said to lot, 'have you anyone else here? sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or anyone you have in the city – bring them out of the place. for we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the lord, and the lord has sent us to destroy it.' so lot went out and said to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, 'up, get out of this place; for the lord is about to destroy the city.' . . . then the lord rained on sodom and gomorrah sulfur and fire from the lord out of heaven; and he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. but lot’s wife, behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt." the story of sodom and gomorrah is about hospitality and the social requirement of helping visitors. when reviewed carefully it becomes evident that it is not a story having anything to do with homosexuality. the men in the town decide to do one of the most inhospitable things possible: rape. it's highly unlikely that all the men of sodom were gay, so why would they want “to know” (a euphemism used in the bible to refer to sexual relations) the two foreigners/angels except to have forced sexual relations with them? in the near east during ancient times soldiers commonly used homosexual rape as a way of humiliating their enemies. (david f. greenberg, "the construction of homosexuality") the soldiers wanted to break the spirit of their defeated enemies and “treat them like women” by raping them. the practice was not driven by sexual desire, but rather by brutality and hatred toward the enemy. the sin of sodom is about abuse, insult to ones guests, and inhospitality to those in need, not aboutt the committed gay relationships that exist today. in one part of the lot offers his two daughters “who have not known a man” to the town crowd. the story assumes that lot is expected, by societal norms, to keep the visitors safe and that they have priority over his own daughters. lot’s offer makes very clear the value of women, relative to men, in that culture. in this story women are not protected, and women become the means by which men are protected. also, if the men of the town were truly all gay, wouldn't lot have known that they would have no sexual interest in his daughters? so this argument is invalid. i won't go into any further detail regarding lgbt matters in the bible, but i encourage you all to read through this christian site, which entails exactly what the various passages regarding homosexuality mean and how they are misinterpreted: [URL]http://hoperemainsonline.com/[/URL]


now, onto isabella white:


ah, yes. as you pointed out, yes, my original intent when signing up for this site was to have a little fun at the expense of those christians which use this website. as i stated previously in this reply, i was in quite an unpleasant mood at the time, and i took it out on all of you. once again, i'd like to apologize for that, and keep the rest of the discussions we may have friendly and civil. hopefully we can all move on from that, and continue in a more polite manner. i'd also like to note that i was unaware that an introduction post was required, and i appreciate you informing me of this. i will be sure to do that once i have finished with this post. i wish you the best, ms./mrs. white, and may you have a pleasant thanksgiving (assuming you're celebrating, that is)

now, onto basilissa:


i fear you misunderstood. not once in my original post did i claim the bible was stupid, but i apologize if it seemed that way. again, as stated a couple other times in this reply, i wrote that original post while i was in a very bad mood and it came out quite harsh now that i'm rereading it. i apologize for my previous behavior, and would like to continue this conversation in as civil a manner as possible.




so, allow me to get this straight. you literally just admitted that you ignore blatant facts and "trust god rather than logic", meaning that, whether intentional or not, you just admitted that both god and the bible are illogical. forgive me if this comes across too harshly, but how does that help your argument? you literally just proved my point that christians ignore blatantly true fact and logic, and that god and the bible aren't logical or fact based. which, if you believe in god, can't be true. if god and the bible aren't based in fact or logic, as you stated, that would just be proof that god doesn't exist. in order for him to exist, the bible would have to be rooted in solid logic and fact (that was actually able to be proved to be undeniably true, by science/history/and etc), which you just stated was false. if the bible and everything contained therein was true, and god did exist, and this was undeniable fact, everyone would believe in god and become christian (or worship satan, i suppose, depending on the individual in question), but they haven't. so you kind of just... disproved yourself, without realizing it? i'm not saying that in a jeering way, mind you, i'm simply quoting what you said to the word.

actually, we did, but i appreciate your concern.
that's a very kind offer of you, and one i'd very much like to see come to fruition.

Seems easy to substantiate.

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› › › however, i fear that even if i did prove you wrong, you'd refuse to admit it. not to say that you would deny it, but it has been my experience that a lot of folks (religious or not) don't often like to admit they were wrong, even when given proof.
Enter the subjunctive mood. Clearly you do not consider yourself to have proved anyone wrong. You are claiming that God is wrong but have produced no supporting evidence for that. For example in addressing "the beliefs or mannerisms" of "religious folk" you have not identified which religious folk (such as Zoroastrians or Hindus) or what forms of exaggeration you're referring to. There are plenty of religious folk having no interest in The Bible and therefore no interest in God. We know that. It's difficult to overestimate the catastrophe they face and whether they know it or not its origin is disobedience to the God they deny so plainly described in His Inerrant Word.

The creation of the universe, although a very short discussion, is pivotal in understanding that. Later on Christians will judge the angels, but (God is explicit here) not only angels I Corinthians 6:2-4 as anyone who's read The Bible knows, this being somewhat pivotal in the scheme of things. You have completely misrepresented John 8, Luke 6, James 4 and Matthew 12.v.s. so I don't need to address those.

Things deteriorated after that; denial of sin is one thing is one thing but flat out claiming that God has not declared sinful matters which He obviously has, moreover which He tells us are abominations, displays a deficit of joined-up-reading probably resulting from selective perusal which I was guilty of too, at one stage, which I fixed by looking at what came before and what followed specific events—or commandments or condemnations, as the case may be—none of which exist in isolation. This applies to both the New and the Old Testaments which I'd encourage you to read in context.

Please try to stay on topic.

James Hutchins 11-27-2019 01:15 PM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
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Originally Posted by thegrimmreaper (Post 1261067)
i ....tl;dr..... proof.

Are you on the drugs son? It will destroy your life. Get with Jesus. He will take you higher than you can imagine.

Basilissa 11-27-2019 04:28 PM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
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Originally Posted by thegrimmreaper (Post 1261067)
i see you were all quite busy in the time that i was not online. there is a lot here for me to dissect, but fear not, i shall address each of you in time. i should warn you now, this will be a long read, and i encourage you to read every word of it, as opposed to skimming it, so that i might be understood fully and each of my words made known and clear.

And I hope you will give me the the same courtesy.

By the way, a hint for the future: breaking walls of text into paragraphs greatly improves overall readability.

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I wanted to make clear whether the people i was dealing with were, in fact, serious and not making exaggerated comments simply for effect.
Let me reassure you that we do not exaggerate what the Bible says, we cite it exactly as is.

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i stated in my original post that i saw a lot of anti christian behavior on here. that behavior, for the most part, was a lot of harsh judgement and harsh or even violent words.
And let me reassure you that any harsh judgement you saw was Biblically supported.

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as one can see, this passage explains that one should not judge nor condemn another, lest that judgement be placed upon you. it even goes on to call those who judge and condemn others hypocrites, as they, too, have sinned nor are innocent.
I highlighted the most important part of what you said. Yes, the verse you cite (Luke 6:37) says that not judging is a way to avoid being judged. The thing is that only those with something to hide don't want to be judged. I have nothing to hide, and I do not fear God's judgment.

Of course I have sinned - in the past, before I was Saved:

1 John 3:6-9
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Therefore, let me reassure you that when I judge, I only judge with righteous judgment, which is what God wants us to do:

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

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again, we see here that the bible, and even jesus himself, states that one should not judge, berate, or commit acts of violence against others when we, ourselves, are not perfect and have committed wrongdoings in the past.
The key verse in this passage is this:

John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jesus forgave her and ordered her to sin no more. Therefore, she was no longer a sinner. If you spend some time here you will notice that we do have some members who were horrible sinners before accepting Jesus. It is OK to have committed horrible sins in the past, we don't judge that. The problem is with people who continue to sin, and our role is to remind them that God hates what they do and wants them to repent.

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next, we address luke 6:31, which states: "and as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. for if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. and if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. and if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. but love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. be ye therefore merciful, as your father also is merciful." in this passage, we are told to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. to love our enemies and be merciful to them, as god is to all of us.
Of course. I want to be Saved; if I weren't Saved, I would want someone to bring me to Jesus; therefore, this is what I do, I participate in this forum to bring sinners to Jesus.

Think of this website as of an intervention. An alcoholic or a drug addict is on a downward spiral - he needs those who love him to be brutally honest with him, so that he does not destroy his own life.

Sinners are like alcoholics, and need to be dragged out of sin into Salvation!

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like the other passages i cited, this passage also advocates for kindness and lack of judgement, and especially doesn't advocate for angry or violent acts against those whom we are enemies with or do not like (such as, for example, someone with whom we disagree, whether it be about morals, actions, lifestyle, or otherwise).
Let's make something clear: we do not advocate angry nor violent acts against anyone. Even though Jesus wants us to slay His enemies:

Luke 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

He also wants us to respect secular laws (e.g. Hebrews 13:17).

Hence, while the Bible is full of examples of genocides of God's enemies, we cannot do any of that stuff as long as it is not legal.

Deuteronomy 7:2-6
2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.
4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

This sort of total genocide was perfectly legal back then, but today there are international laws against that, so we cannot do that anymore. These verses show you, however, that if laws change, it will be totally OK to murder men, women, and children in the name of God, again.
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in matthew 12:36 it says: "but i say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. for by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." meaning that each person shall by judged accordingly, by god, once they die. to emphasize, they will be judged BY GOD, not man. it is not your job to judge others for their sins, and is stated several times by the bible. it also states that you will be judged based upon your own words and actions.
Yes, and I'm totally confident I'll pass the judgment with flying colors:

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

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seeing as how it's already been made clear that god frowns upon us judging one another,
And as I have explained to you, God is OK with us judging others using righteous judgment. So we're fine.

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and especially upon us committing violent acts against one another,
We do not do anything that would be deemed illegal, and violence is illegal in most jurisdictions.

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the sort of hateful and even violent things i have seen people on here state. for example, an award/badge/whatever you'd like to call it, titled "punched the most queers" and another called "tell her once". violence against women and lgbt folk is a common theme here, i've noted,
You call that "hate" and "violence," I call that "tough love."

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ephesians 4:29: "let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." here we see that we are not to spew harsh words against those with which we disagree
That's not what this verse says. "Corrupt communication" refers to content (lies), not form (insults) of communication.

When we say harsh things, we simply emulate Jesus, who often called His listeners "vipers," "hypocrites," and "swine," among other insults.

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now, onto the subject of lgbt. as we all know, most christians believe that homosexuality is a sin, but the bible actually never explicitly states that it is one.
That's a lie.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Deuteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.

Isaiah 3:8-9
8 For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory.
9The shew of their countenance doth witness against them; and they declare their sin as Sodom, they hide it not. Woe unto their soul! for they have rewarded evil unto themselves.

Romans 1:26-28
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

...and that's just a selection.

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lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, and said, 'i beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. look, i have two daughters who have not known a man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.' (big chunk of the quote removed)
the story of sodom and gomorrah is about hospitality and the social requirement of helping visitors.
Indeed! :wub: That's the essence of True Christian™ hospitality for you: offering own virgin daughters for gang rape, so that the male strangers can avoid being raped themselves! :thumbsup:

That single verse shows you two things: (1) that male-on-male rape is way worse than male-on-female rape, and (2) that women, even own daughters, are nothing more than property which can be used as bargaining chips.

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i apologize for my previous behavior, and would like to continue this conversation in as civil a manner as possible.
:thumbsup: I would love that!

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so, allow me to get this straight. you literally just admitted that you ignore blatant facts and "trust god rather than logic", meaning that, whether intentional or not, you just admitted that both god and the bible are illogical.
I didn't say that - the Bible makes this argument for me:

1 Corinthians 1:19-21
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

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forgive me if this comes across too harshly, but how does that help your argument? you literally just proved my point that christians ignore blatantly true fact and logic, and that god and the bible aren't logical or fact based. which, if you believe in god, can't be true. if god and the bible aren't based in fact or logic, as you stated, that would just be proof that god doesn't exist. in order for him to exist, the bible would have to be rooted in solid logic and fact (that was actually able to be proved to be undeniably true, by science/history/and etc), which you just stated was false. if the bible and everything contained therein was true, and god did exist, and this was undeniable fact, everyone would believe in god and become christian (or worship satan, i suppose, depending on the individual in question), but they haven't. so you kind of just... disproved yourself, without realizing it?
I am sorry if you feel that way, but this is what the Bible says, and as a Christian, I have no other choice than to believe what the Bible says. There are many fragments of the Bible which describe events that seem impossible/completely unbelievable, but as a Christian, I have to to trust the Bible rather than science and logic. Because if we start to tear apart the small things, the whole structure would collapse. Because if the Bible is the Word of God, it has to be 100% correct. If, on the other hand, it isn't 100% correct, that would mean it is not the Word of God, just a collection of incoherent ramblings of madmen.

I cannot accept that possibility, so I have to stick to everything the Bible says, even when it talks about a flat world, stars falling out of the firmament, worldwide flood, unicorns, the Sun stopping in its tracks for a day, or when it seemingly contradicts itself.

Quote:

that's a very kind offer of you, and one i'd very much like to see come to fruition. however, i fear that even if i did prove you wrong, you'd refuse to admit it. not to say that you would deny it, but it has been my experience that a lot of folks (religious or not) don't often like to admit they were wrong, even when given proof.
If this discussion of ours results in you re-opening the Bible and re-examining it, that would be a win-win for both of us, and if you can provide a good Bible-based argumentation (rather than copy-paste of what someone else thinks), I will gladly concede. :)

thegrimmreaper 11-28-2019 08:50 AM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
before i get started, i'd like to apologize for how my last post was organized. i hadn't realized it at the time, as i have been quite tired lately, but my last post was very difficult to read due to having such large chunks of text with no breaks in between. i'll try to correct that from here on out, but i'd ask you to please remain patient with me lol.

mitzalizalor:
Quote:

Enter the subjunctive mood. Clearly you do not consider yourself to have proved anyone wrong.


no, i do not consider myself to have proved anyone wrong. i have, for the most part, kept the things i said very broad. i quoted a few passages from the bible, none of which were to help my argument, but rather to emphasize the points made within them. those points being, in simple terms, and forgive my language: "hey, don't be a d*ck, that sh*t ain't cool". i have not gone in depth about any personal qualms i might have with the bible as of yet.


Quote:

For example in addressing "the beliefs or mannerisms" of "religious folk" you have not identified which religious folk (such as Zoroastrians or Hindus) or what forms of exaggeration you're referring to. There are plenty of religious folk having no interest in The Bible and therefore no interest in God. We know that. It's difficult to overestimate the catastrophe they face and whether they know it or not its origin is disobedience to the God they deny so plainly described in His Inerrant Word.



i meant "religious folk" in a very broad sense. i was merely stating that, in my time on the internet, i have seen many people mocking, ridiculing, and stereotyping many different religions in many different ways.



Quote:

You have completely misrepresented John 8, Luke 6, James 4 and Matthew 12.v.s. so I don't need to address those.
might i ask how exactly i misrepresented them? if i have, i'd certainly like to know how, so that i might correct myself from doing so again in the future. i am certainly not denying that i may be incorrect about some things, i am only human after all, so i'd very much appreciate if you could point out exactly where i went wrong.


Quote:

Things deteriorated after that; denial of sin is one thing is one thing but flat out claiming that God has not declared sinful matters which He obviously has, moreover which He tells us are abominations, displays a deficit of joined-up-reading probably resulting from selective perusal which I was guilty of too, at one stage, which I fixed by looking at what came before and what followed specific events—or commandments or condemnations, as the case may be—none of which exist in isolation. This applies to both the New and the Old Testaments which I'd encourage you to read in context.

i did not try to deny the existence of sin, nor did i claim that god hasn't deemed certain things to be sinful. if it seemed that way, i assure you it was not my intention. i'm well aware that god has declared certain things to be sins. on the subject of the last sentence in this quote, i have indeed read both old and new testaments. however, it has been some time since i have actually sat down and read the bible, as i am no longer christian and haven't really felt the need to. you have a point, though. starting tomorrow, i will begin reading the bible, cover to cover, so that i might be thoroughly informed before i discuss it further. now, the bible is very long and i am a college student without much free time, so it may take a long while before i manage to actually read the bible in it's entirety, but i will certainly make an effort to do so and perhaps even take notes along the way. i'm sure this will be a win-win for all of us; i will be more thoroughly informed about the things i am discussing, and i'm sure you will be pleased that i am taking the time to try to educate myself about your beliefs more.




james hutchins:
Quote:

Are you on the drugs son?
no, unfortunately, i am quite sober lol. i couldn't take drugs, even if i wanted to: i have epilepsy. taking brain inhibiting drugs would cause me to have a seizure and go into severe convulsions, which is quite unpleasant, as one might imagine.




basilissa:
Quote:

I highlighted the most important part of what you said. Yes, the verse you cite (Luke 6:37) says that not judging is a way to avoid being judged. The thing is that only those with something to hide don't want to be judged. I have nothing to hide, and I do not fear God's judgment.

Of course I have sinned - in the past, before I was Saved
i'd like to address this last sentence. i'm not sure whether this was your intention or not, but the way it's worded makes it sound as though you believe that, now that you have been "saved", you have not committed any sins. if this is what you intended to mean, i seriously doubt your statement is true.


it's impossible for us, as humans, to be completely free of sin. you can cleanse yourself of sin by getting baptized, which forgives original sin, and by going to confession, so that you might be forgiven of any sins you have committed since then and the punishments for them, but it is impossible to never commit another sin once you have been "saved".


no matter how hard you try, you will commit sin from time to time, even if those sins are small. it's only human. the only person who is without any sin whatsoever is jesus, for obvious reasons (note that i use the term "person" loosely, as jesus would technically be considered a demigod and not a human being).




Quote:

Jesus forgave her and ordered her to sin no more. Therefore, she was no longer a sinner. If you spend some time here you will notice that we do have some members who were horrible sinners before accepting Jesus. It is OK to have committed horrible sins in the past, we don't judge that. The problem is with people who continue to sin, and our role is to remind them that God hates what they do and wants them to repent.
i understand that it is within your beliefs to remind those who continue to sin that they are doing wrong and that god wants them to repent, that's not what i have a problem with. the problem i have is with how you go about doing this ("you", in this case, not referring to you specifically, but as the royal "you").


i have seen many a case in which you have attempted to, for lack of a better word, "enlighten" these sinners by doing things such as yelling at/cursing them out, insulting them, or threatening them in a violent manner. this is what i have issue with.


correcting these people in a gentle and respectful manner, as any civilized adult would, is fine in my book. (of course, this applies only to sinners who are already part of your faith or who have shown some sort of interest in said faith. i do not believe this is acceptable behavior to force upon those who are not religious and/or who have not asked. i understand that you believe you have the best intentions when doing so, but i still believe it to be quite unacceptable when it is unwarranted, even if you really do have good intentions). correcting them in the aforementioned ways of yelling at/cussing out/violent threats is unacceptable. not only that, but i feel it isn't a very effective tactic either way. if you insult and yell at someone for doing something you believe is wrong and for not being christian, that isn't going to make them want to convert. if anything, it will only encourage them not to, either because of the negative experience or simply to spite you.




Quote:

Think of this website as of an intervention. An alcoholic or a drug addict is on a downward spiral - he needs those who love him to be brutally honest with him, so that he does not destroy his own life.
i understand what you're trying to say, and i do agree with it; to some degree. yes, an alcoholic or drug addict would need those who love him to be brutally honest with him, so that he might get back on track. but there's a difference between being brutally honest and just being an *sshole.


let's use the drug addict example you provided to explore this. this drug addict needs help. this is obvious. if he continues down this path, he will be doing serious harm to himself. you need to be brutally honest with him, for his own safety. you should sit him down and address his problem in a calm and civilized manner, making sure that he knows that you are doing this because you care about him, and be as respectful as possible while still making your point. this way, he might fully realize the reality of his situation and what must be done to correct his behavior, so that he might turn his life around for the better.


now, on the other hand, if you yell at him and call him all sorts of insulting things, he will be less inclined to seek the help he needs. he will likely continue on with his behavior, even if only to spite you, and both parties will be quite angry with one another. no progress will have been made and any friendly relations you once had will likely be severed. this is not brutal honesty, it's simply being cruel, and will do no good for either party.


this same logic applies to religion and attempting to correct those who you believe to be sinful. sitting them down and having a calm, civilized, and caring discussion will have a much higher success rate than yelling at people, insulting them, or other things of that nature. yelling, slinging insults, telling people god hates them, threatening violence, are all things that will turn people away from joining your religion. if you're trying to convert these people, doing these things is just plain counter intuitive. why would someone want to convert to your religion after you just yelled in their face? imagine a salesmen yelling in your face for not buying their product. would that make you want to buy it? i think not.




Quote:

This sort of total genocide was perfectly legal back then, but today there are international laws against that, so we cannot do that anymore. These verses show you, however, that if laws change, it will be totally OK to murder men, women, and children in the name of God, again.
this... this genuinely frightens me, i must say. i don't care what religion someone is from, what their beliefs are, whatever; genocide is not f*cking ok. ever. for any reason. that's sick and insane. i believe in lgbt rights and not discriminating against lgbt folk, but i'm not gonna commit f*cking GENOCIDE on all those who disagree with me. that's absolutely disgusting. no, just no. i'm trying to be as respectful about your religion as possible, but genocide is where i draw the f*cking line. you have to be really f*cked up in the head to think genocide is acceptable, for any reason.




Quote:

You call that "hate" and "violence," I call that "tough love."
no, "tough love" is interfering with a loved ones drug abuse problem or not allowing your child to play with things that might cause them bodily harm, even if they're having fun playing with it.


beating your wife for not making dinner the way you like it is not "tough love", it's abuse. kicking your gay son out on the street and/or beating him is not "tough love", it's abuse. "tough love" is when you do or say something that might be somewhat unpleasant or upset someone, because you love them and it is for their own physical safety or to help them down the line, such as not letting your child skip homework. beating someone, insulting them, being cruel, etc. is not "tough love", it's f*cking abuse and it's disgusting. if you believe otherwise, you're delusional. this isn't a matter of religious beliefs, this is a matter of human rights. this is unacceptable, no matter what. again, i'm trying to remain as respectful as possible, but advocating for abuse is where i draw the line.




Quote:

That's a lie. *a bunch of passages that i cut out to save space*
i see where your concern comes from, but allow me to provide some resources that discuss those very passages, as well as the bible's view of homosexuality. this first link, in particular, should be of interest to you. it is written by a priest who went to college for religious studies and speaks old/biblical hebrew (the language the original bible was written in), among many other qualifications. i urge you to check that one out, at the very least.


http://hoperemainsonline.com/


https://www.rmnetwork.org/newrmn/wp-...Sept.-2016.pdf


https://www.hrc.org/resources/what-d...-homosexuality


http://www.matthewvines.com/transcript/


https://sunshinecathedral.org/Small%...e%20Course.pdf


https://www.redletterchristians.org/...its-not-a-sin/






Quote:

Indeed! :wub: That's the essence of True Christian™ hospitality for you: offering own virgin daughters for gang rape, so that the male strangers can avoid being raped themselves!:thumbsup:
ignoring the fact that you think offering your daughters up for gang rape is ok, i again implore: if the men of sodom were truly gay, why would lot offer his daughters to them? he, of all people, should know that they would have no interest in his daughters if they were gay.




Quote:

That single verse shows you two things: (1) that
Quote:

male-on-male rape is way worse than male-on-female rape, and (2) that women, even own daughters, are nothing more than property which can be used as bargaining chips.
rape is rape, and rape is wrong. no one kind of rape is worse than another, all forms of rape are equally wrong. women are not property, either, they are human beings that are to be treated with respect. is the virgin mary simply a piece of property? she was the mother of jesus, after all, i'd think she'd deserve more respect than that. if women were meant to be property and be subordinate to men, why did jesus treat her so kindly and not order her around and beat her?




Quote:

I am sorry if you feel that way, but this is what the Bible says, and as a Christian, I have no other choice than to believe what the Bible says. There are many fragments of the Bible which describe events that seem impossible/completely unbelievable, but as a Christian, I have to to trust the Bible rather than science and logic. Because if we start to tear apart the small things, the whole structure would collapse. Because if the Bible is the Word of God, it has to be 100% correct. If, on the other hand, it isn't 100% correct, that would mean it is not the Word of God, just a collection of incoherent ramblings of madmen.

I cannot accept that possibility, so I have to stick to everything the Bible says, even when it talks about a flat world, stars falling out of the firmament, worldwide flood, unicorns, the Sun stopping in its tracks for a day, or when it seemingly contradicts itself.
i understand what you're trying to say, but that's exactly the point i'm trying to make. if tearing apart the small things causes the whole structure to collapse, let it collapse. if the whole structure can be collapsed by tearing apart little things, it's obviously not true, nor 100% correct.


this is exactly what i was trying to say. i don't mean that disrespectfully, i assure you, i'm simply trying to point out the fact that the bible is full of fallacies that prove it to be false. which, in turn, as you said, would make everything contained within it false.


i'm not trying to disrespect you by attempting to prove you wrong, i'm trying to make the facts known. you seem to place all of your self worth on your religion, which isn't necessary. you don't need christianity to be worth something or for your life to have meaning, you can live an equally fulfilling life without it.

forgive me if this comes across the wrong way, but it often seems as though christians only do good things because god tells them to. whether they realize it or not, it seems like they do good only for perceived personal gain, ie. getting into heaven. i do good things, not because some god told me to or because i think i'll gain eternal life/happiness from it, i do it because it's the right thing to do.

again, i hope that doesn't come across the wrong way, this is simply a personal observation of mine and i also have difficulty wording things in exactly the right way.


Quote:

If this discussion of ours results in you re-opening the Bible and re-examining it, that would be a win-win for both of us, and if you can provide a good Bible-based argumentation (rather than copy-paste of what someone else thinks), I will gladly concede.
as i mentioned earlier in this reply, i do indeed plan on re-examining the bible, cover to cover. it'll take quite a long while, but i'm sure you'll be glad to hear that i'm making the effort.




i wish you all a happy thanksgiving and i hope that we can all be on kind terms with one another! :D

Jeb Stuart Thurmond 11-28-2019 05:05 PM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
This looks like an epic debate that deserves its own thread. Nice contrast with the tweet-and-run garbage we're getting from Peter The Tweeter.

Not sure what to call it, or where to put it. Suggestions?

P.S. protip:


https://www.groovypost.com/wp-conten.../shift-key.jpg

MitzaLizalor 11-28-2019 09:58 PM

Re: Gerard Way - Cross-Dressing Vampire-Weirdo Psycho-Satanist Nutbag!
 
1 Attachment(s)
Sometimes buttons stop working – I believe there's a cleaner available? Anyhow, referring to your "invincible ignorance debating strategy, how to respond" chart in the intro. forum
https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?p=1261224#post1261209
suggested that may be a better place for some of these points to be addressed? In order of appearance, please, as per attached.
https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?p=1261224#post1261224

Basilissa 11-29-2019 12:16 AM

Re: Does the Bible really say so many mean things?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeb Stuart Thurmond (Post 1261235)
This looks like an epic debate that deserves its own thread. Nice contrast with the tweet-and-run garbage we're getting from Peter The Tweeter.

Not sure what to call it, or where to put it. Suggestions?

:thumbsup: I think I came up with just the right title and a good place, Brother!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrimmreaper (Post 1261206)
basilissa:
i'd like to address this last sentence. i'm not sure whether this was your intention or not, but the way it's worded makes it sound as though you believe that, now that you have been "saved", you have not committed any sins. if this is what you intended to mean, i seriously doubt your statement is true.

it's impossible for us, as humans, to be completely free of sin.

So, in your opinion, the Bible lies when it says we are free of sin? Here is a thread that addresses this issue in more detail, and I already cited 1 John 3:6-9, but here are just a few more verses:

Psalm 119:1-3
1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

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i have seen many a case in which you have attempted to, for lack of a better word, "enlighten" these sinners by doing things such as yelling at/cursing them out, insulting them, or threatening them in a violent manner. this is what i have issue with.
Well, Jesus yelled a lot, too. Have you checked out the thread I linked to in my previous post?

Quote:

i do not believe this is acceptable behavior to force upon those who are not religious and/or who have not asked.
Don't worry, we're not the Jehowa's witness type, we don't go knocking on anyone's doors. However, those who sign up on these forums come to our virtual home. Not vice versa.

Quote:

let's use the drug addict example you provided to explore this. this drug addict needs help. this is obvious. if he continues down this path, he will be doing serious harm to himself. you need to be brutally honest with him, for his own safety. you should sit him down and address his problem in a calm and civilized manner, making sure that he knows that you are doing this because you care about him, and be as respectful as possible while still making your point. this way, he might fully realize the reality of his situation and what must be done to correct his behavior, so that he might turn his life around for the better.
Or not. Which is why a lot of interventions end up in a lot of yelling and a lot of crying.

Quote:

this... this genuinely frightens me, i must say. i don't care what religion someone is from, what their beliefs are, whatever; genocide is not f*cking ok. ever. for any reason. that's sick and insane.
My personal opinion on this issue is completely irrelevant, so let me just quote you what the Bible says about genocide. I have already cited Deuteronomy 7:2-6, but here are some other verses:

Exodus 17:14-16
14 And the Lord said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:
16 For he said, Because the Lord hath sworn that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.

Deuteronomy 20:16-18
16 But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee:
18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the Lord your God.

Joshua 6:20-21
20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.
1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Please note that when God commands genocide, He even wants children and pregnant women to be slaughtered:

Psalm 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

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i'm trying to be as respectful about your religion as possible, but genocide is where i draw the f*cking line. you have to be really f*cked up in the head to think genocide is acceptable, for any reason.
Like I said - it really doesn't matter what I think. I'm just citing you straight from the Bible, this is what God thinks. For Christians, His is the only opinion that matters.

Quote:

"tough love" is when you do or say something that might be somewhat unpleasant or upset someone, because you love them and it is for their own physical safety or to help them down the line, such as not letting your child skip homework. beating someone, insulting them, being cruel, etc. is not "tough love", it's f*cking abuse and it's disgusting. if you believe otherwise, you're delusional.
Once again: what I think on this issue is completely irrelevant. Here is what the Bible says about beating children:

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Proverbs 19:18 Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.

Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

Proverbs 23:13-14
13 Withhold not correction from the child: for [if] thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14 Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.

Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left [to himself] bringeth his mother to shame.


Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Quote:

this first link, in particular, should be of interest to you. it is written by a priest who went to college for religious studies and speaks old/biblical hebrew (the language the original bible was written in), among many other qualifications. i urge you to check that one out, at the very least.

http://hoperemainsonline.com/
I looked it up, specifically his explanations of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 - the translation provided by that dude simply does not make sense, can we agree on that? Back then, most people didn't tend to have much space nor furniture, so often the whole family slept in a single bed. Even if adult singles had separate sleeping arrangements (like a bench or something), the scarcity of resources meant that these places were used and reused by people of both sexes. However, even in this contorted translation, the dude who wrote this could not escape the fact that God does not want two men to sleep together in one bed. Period.

Now, if you really want to get nitty-gritty, I highly recommend the Parallel Bible website.

Here is the link for Leviticus 18:22 https://biblehub.com/parallel/leviticus/18-22.htm

And for Leviticus 20:13 https://biblehub.com/parallel/leviticus/20-13.htm

Feel free to review these, you can see different parallel translations and attempt your own translation by looking at each of the Hebrew words. What I really like about this website is that you can click on any of the Hebrew words and see what other contexts they appear in.

Regarding this dude's analysis of New Testament quotes against homosexuality, I was mildly amused, as he quite struggled to support the argument that is usually used, which is that these verses condemn temple prostitution (that argument is based on the fact that the popular Near Eastern religions back then had bordellos in the temples, combining prayer with pleasure). Now, Paul did not help us by using the word ἀρσενοκοῖται here, and I would defer to Brothers Elmer G. White or Pim Pendergrast who have much better knowledge of ancient Greek. With that in mind, I submit in this case - as ἀρσενοκοῖται is used only twice in the Bible and only by Paul, I'm not sure what he meant by it except that it was sinful. (Post Scriptum EDIT: here's a link to Elmer's discussion about ἀρσενοκοῖται and homosexuality in general).

However, this dude's tirade in relation to Romans 1:26-27 is just dumb - you can see it, right? He doesn't even try to argue that these verses prohibit homosexual/lesbian behaviors, because that would be a completely impossible position to defend. His argument that this verse applies only to ancient Rome and nobody else is laughable. If these verses weren't meant for all people of all times, why would they be included in the Bible?


Nitpicking side note: Hebrew is only one of the languages of the Bible, the others include Aramaic and Greek.


Quote:

ignoring the fact that you think offering your daughters up for gang rape is ok,
I'll repeat again: what I think is irrelevant. The Bible, however, states that it is an OK behavior.

Quote:

i again implore: if the men of sodom were truly gay, why would lot offer his daughters to them? he, of all people, should know that they would have no interest in his daughters if they were gay.
Maybe that's why they refused his daughters? Maybe he thought they were bisexual but they were gay?

Quote:

rape is rape, and rape is wrong. no one kind of rape is worse than another, all forms of rape are equally wrong.
The Bible says there some instances when rape is OK, such as in case of female captives in war:

Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14
10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,
11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;
12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;
13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.
14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

Also, according to the Bible, rape is an acceptable way to marry a girl:

Exodus 22:16-17
16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Quote:

women are not property, either, they are human beings that are to be treated with respect.
No - women are like cattle. The Bible even provides provisions about selling own daughter as a sex slave:

Exodus 21:7-11
7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
9 And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.
10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.

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if women were meant to be property and be subordinate to men, why did jesus treat her so kindly and not order her around and beat her?
Well, the Bible doesn't say anything about Jesus beating His mother, but He certainly wasn't too kind to her - there are quite a few instances where He dismisses her as less important than His disciples:

Mark 3:31-34
31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

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this is exactly what i was trying to say. i don't mean that disrespectfully, i assure you, i'm simply trying to point out the fact that the bible is full of fallacies that prove it to be false. which, in turn, as you said, would make everything contained within it false.
I'm not offended. :innocent:

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as i mentioned earlier in this reply, i do indeed plan on re-examining the bible, cover to cover. it'll take quite a long while, but i'm sure you'll be glad to hear that i'm making the effort.
:thumbsup: That's great. If more people read the Bible - all of it, not just a few pretty sounding verses - there would be much less wars fought around it.

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i wish you all a happy thanksgiving and i hope that we can all be on kind terms with one another! :D
I hope you are having a nice Thanksgiving yourself! :)

handmaiden 11-29-2019 02:07 AM

Re: Does the Bible really say so many mean things?
 
I would like to response to the question posed in the thread title.

"Mean" is a rather vague word and the OP seems to be using it in a modern context. The Bible says many things that sound harsh to modern sensibilities.

The very core tenet of Christianity is impressively harsh when you examine it closely.

Essentially, every human being born deserves to go to a fiery place of damnation. No matter how minor the infraction, the death and burning sentence is leveled upon us all. The only escape from this punishment is offered to us by God for which He allowed His Only Son to die a prolonged, public death.

These facts, when viewed through the Biblical lens of God's moral perfection, are an example to much of the world of God's generosity and Jesus' compassion.
When viewed through the modern, mainstream perspective, this arrangement seems extreme--or as you might say--"mean".

Remember, even the better known Bible tales shared in Sunday School to young children could be seen as "mean" to some people.
God really did drown a world full of babies, children and pregnant women with His Great Flood. That event also killed a lot of cute little animals that didn't even have a concept of sin.

God really did command His servant, Abraham, to tie down his son to an altar and raise a knife over the boy's body with the intent of slitting the child's throat. God stopped Abraham in the nick of time, but I'm sure that both Abraham and Issac were dealing with some serious stress just before the knife plunged downward.

The Bible in all its true content is not for the faint of heart. Following God according to His Own dictates is not for the half convinced.

Anytime someone finds themselves shaking their head and doubting the veracity of the Bible, they are questioning God's power to communicate His message to humanity. Anytime someone questions the morality of something the Bible commands, they are elevating their own authority above that of God.


One of the first individuals to do that was Satan, and even he knows where that is leading.

Basilissa 11-29-2019 02:18 AM

Re: Does the Bible really say so many mean things?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by handmaiden (Post 1261274)
God really did command His servant, Abraham, to tie down his son to an altar and raise a knife over the boy's body with the intent of slitting the child's throat. God stopped Abraham in the nick of time, but I'm sure that both Abraham and Issac were dealing with some serious stress just before the knife plunged downward.

Indeed Sister - and, God did not bother to intervene in the other instance of human sacrifice:

Judges 11: 30-40
30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,
31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.
(So Jephthah wins and...)
34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.
35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the Lord, and I cannot go back.
36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the Lord, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the Lord hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.
37 And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.
38 And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.
39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
40 That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.

I mean, knowing Jephthah's vow, God could have sent his dog to greet him. Bun no, He wanted a girl to be sacrificed, not some animal!

thegrimmreaper 11-29-2019 08:29 AM

Re: Does the Bible really say so many mean things?
 
jeb:
Quote:

P.S. protip: (picture of a shift key)
i apologize for my lack of capitalization, my laptop is over 10 years old, and the caps lock and shift keys are irreversibly damaged. i could use the on-screen keyboard option, but then i'd have to point and click on each letter with my mouse, and i'd rather not waste the time.


basilissa:
Quote:

So, in your opinion, the Bible lies when it says we are free of sin? Here is a thread that addresses this issue in more detail
to some extent, yes. i believe you can be forgiven sin, by baptism and confession, but i do not believe you are exempt from ever committing a sin thereafter. say you, sir/madam, got into a fight with your spouse (not sure of your relationship status, but let's just assume you're married for this example) over something trivial and you murder them in the heat of the moment. this is an extreme example, i know, but bare with me. murdering your spouse is a sin. it doesn't matter that you've been "saved" and forgiven your past sins, committing murder is a sin (i realize there may some contexts in the bible where murder is acceptable, but in this case it would not be justified), and that would mean you are capable of sinning.


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Well, Jesus yelled a lot, too. Have you checked out the thread I linked to in my previous post?
yes, i did. i'm aware jesus yelled a lot, but i don't recall him ever laying a hand on someone to hit or beat them, although i could be wrong.


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Don't worry, we're not the Jehowa's witness type, we don't go knocking on anyone's doors. However, those who sign up on these forums come to our virtual home. Not vice versa.
nor did i claim you did go around knocking on people's doors. it has just been my own experience that, once they find out i'm not religious or that i'm gay/do something else they consider wrong, that the christians i have met in person have tried to lecture and convert me when i didn't ask them to and it wasn't relevant to our conversation.


i also didn't imply you were doing so to me, as i chose to come here of my own accord, and that was my own choice. i am speaking of times where this has occurred to me in person and completely unwarranted.


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Or not. Which is why a lot of interventions end up in a lot of yelling and a lot of crying.
yes, i understand that, but i don't think that should be your immediate go-to in such a scenario if it could be avoided. if a calm, yet stern and rational discussion doesn't work, then more force could be used.


but brutal honesty is still different than, say, punching this hypothetical addict in the face. an odd example, perhaps, but hopefully i'm making some sort of sense. i fear i am not always the best at putting my thoughts into words.


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Please note that when God commands genocide, He even wants children and pregnant women to be slaughtered:
why would young children and babies be included in a religious genocide, though? would it not make more sense to raise them as your own, with your own beliefs? such young children would not have committed any acts against you or your faith, at least not knowingly, so i don't see why such innocent lives would be involved.


i still don't believe genocide is ok, for any reason, and this is something i simply cannot budge from. even if it does say that genocide is acceptable in the bible, i still don't really believe everything the bible says to be fact or that it should be taken seriously. even if you were to prove to me, undeniably, that god existed and everything the bible said was true, i still would not be able to budge on my own personal morals. the same goes for abuse, rape, and equal rights.


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Like I said - it really doesn't matter what I think. I'm just citing you straight from the Bible, this is what God thinks. For Christians, His is the only opinion that matters. (there are three other quotes similar to this, but i didn't include them because they basically stated the same thing)
you're citing the bible. this is what you believe god thinks. in christians opinion, what god thinks is all that matters. therefore, if you agree that everything god says is correct, then it is what you think, you do agree with it, and it does matter.


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I looked it up, specifically his explanations of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 - the translation provided by that dude simply does not make sense, can we agree on that? Back then, most people didn't tend to have much space nor furniture, so often the whole family slept in a single bed. Even if adult singles had separate sleeping arrangements (like a bench or something), the scarcity of resources meant that these places were used and reused by people of both sexes. However, even in this contorted translation, the dude who wrote this could not escape the fact that God does not want two men to sleep together in one bed. Period.
yes, i can agree with that, at least to some extent. however, i do not believe this includes the beds of women (or anyone else, of any gender, for that matter) who are single. i don't think anyone should be having sex in someone else's bed, regardless of who they're sleeping with, simply because that's rude, but i believe this is more in reference of cheating on one's spouse than anything else.


Quote:

Regarding this dude's analysis of New Testament quotes against homosexuality, I was mildly amused, as he quite struggled to support the argument that is usually used, which is that these verses condemn temple prostitution (that argument is based on the fact that the popular Near Eastern religions back then had bordellos in the temples, combining prayer with pleasure). Now, Paul did not help us by using the word ἀρσενοκοῖται here, and I would defer to Brothers Elmer G. White or Pim Pendergrast who have much better knowledge of ancient Greek. With that in mind, I submit in this case - as ἀρσενοκοῖται is used only twice in the Bible and only by Paul, I'm not sure what he meant by it except that it was sinful. (Post ScriptumEDIT: here's a link to Elmer's discussion about ἀρσενοκοῖται and homosexuality in general).
i read through the page of the discussion you linked, as well as the page before and after it for added context, and it was very interesting, i must say. elmer made some good points, and he seems quite educated. a fascinating read, indeed, and it seems to be fairly neutral in stance (or, at least, acknowledges the ambiguity of certain words/passages/etc).


Quote:

However, this dude's tirade in relation to Romans 1:26-27 is just dumb - you can see it, right? He doesn't even try to argue that these verses prohibit homosexual/lesbian behaviors, because that would be a completely impossible position to defend. His argument that this verse applies only to ancient Rome and nobody else is laughable. If these verses weren't meant for all people of all times, why would they be included in the Bible?
yes, i quite agree with you there. it would be an impossible position to defend, simply because of how much ambiguity there is. and, yes, i agree that him saying it only applies to ancient rome is also quite off, for the most part.


i do think he has a point, however, in saying that the sin discussed in the passage was about trying to change the way you were created to be. i'm not saying this is what it means, exactly, i just think it was a fairly decent point, especially in the case of the ancient romans and their forced bisexuality.


Quote:

Nitpicking side note: Hebrew is only one of the languages of the Bible, the others include Aramaic and Greek.
i'm aware, i just didn't feel the need to list each one, as he includes that in the about us page.


Quote:

Maybe that's why they refused his daughters? Maybe he thought they were bisexual but they were gay?
if the men of sodom were all exclusively gay, though (the only exception mentioned, as far as i remember, being lot), i'd expect lot would've known quite well that that was not the case. or, at least, that it was mostly not the case. i admit, i'm not sure.


Quote:

Well, the Bible doesn't say anything about Jesus beating His mother, but He certainly wasn't too kind to her - there are quite a few instances where He dismisses her as less important than His disciples:

Mark 3:31-34
31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
in what way is he regarding her as less important than his disciples in this verse? the way it's worded is a bit confusing to me, so i'd greatly appreciate if you could explain it to me further.


i appreciate you taking the time to discuss these things with me, and that you've remained calm and respectful about it. i must say, most of the christians i have met have not offered me that same amount of respect or thorough explanation, so i appreciate that we can have this discussion. :)


handmaiden:
Quote:

Essentially, every human being born deserves to go to a fiery place of damnation. No matter how minor the infraction, the death and burning sentence is leveled upon us all. The only escape from this punishment is offered to us by God for which He allowed His Only Son to die a prolonged, public death.
i have some questions about this, and i'd appreciate if anyone could perhaps shed some light on this. god offered his son to die for sinners, so the gates of heaven could be opened, correct? but then he came back to life three days later. how exactly is this a big deal?


i mean, i get that he died for sinners and so that he could open heaven's gates, but if god is all powerful and can do anything he wants, why not just open the gates without having to sacrifice jesus? and why would jesus dying for us be seen as this big deal if he's immortal and can come back to life whenever he pleases? that would be comparable to you or i breaking a bone and it healing. less than that, actually, because a broken bone takes months to heal, whereas jesus resurrected in three days.


also, none of that would be necessary if sin were not a thing, so why allow sin to be a thing in the first place? you believe god knows everything, past, present and future, correct? and the only reason sin exists is because of satan turning against god, right? so why would he create satan if he knew he'd turn to evil? isn't that counter intuitive?


and if god can do anything he pleases, why not just refuse to allow satan to turn evil in the first place? could he not have controlled lucifer's thought process or restricted his right to make choices and have free will? do angels even have free will? and how would satan turn evil if evil did not exist until he chose to turn against god? did god create evil, because that doesn't make any sense to me.


i apologize for all the questions, i'm just quite curious about these things, as nobody ever clarified them to me growing up. more of a "don't question it" attitude.

Basilissa 11-29-2019 04:45 PM

Re: Does the Bible really say so many mean things?
 
I'll have to be brief this time, so no colorful quotes, but:

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrimmreaper (Post 1261286)
jeb:
to some extent, yes. i believe you can be forgiven sin, by baptism and confession, but i do not believe you are exempt from ever committing a sin thereafter. say you, sir/madam,

Miss, actually.
Quote:

got into a fight with your spouse (not sure of your relationship status, but let's just assume you're married for this example) over something trivial and you murder them in the heat of the moment. this is an extreme example, i know, but bare with me. murdering your spouse is a sin. it doesn't matter that you've been "saved" and forgiven your past sins, committing murder is a sin (i realize there may some contexts in the bible where murder is acceptable, but in this case it would not be justified), and that would mean you are capable of sinning.
Well, first of all, even before I was Born Again, I don't think I was capable of murder. I'm your Perfect Hypocrite™ - I'll eat dead things but I wouldn't kill it - seriously, I cannot even harm a spider! (Mosquitoes and aphids are the exception which confirm the rule, though).

Quote:

yes, i did. i'm aware jesus yelled a lot, but i don't recall him ever laying a hand on someone to hit or beat them, although i could be wrong.
You are wrong - think of the case when Jesus beat the crap out of the vendors in the temple...

Quote:

why would young children and babies be included in a religious genocide, though? would it not make more sense to raise them as your own, with your own beliefs? such young children would not have committed any acts against you or your faith, at least not knowingly, so i don't see why such innocent lives would be involved.
That is a good question. However, God clearly hates everyone who does not believe in Him (John 3:18), which means little children who die before being able to accept Jesus as their Savior, are destined to Hell.

Quote:

i still don't believe genocide is ok, for any reason, and this is something i simply cannot budge from. even if it does say that genocide is acceptable in the bible, i still don't really believe everything the bible says to be fact or that it should be taken seriously.
That's the thing: if parts of the Bible are unacceptable, then the whole structure falls apart. If the bits about genocide are wrong, how are we to know that the bits about Jesus are correct?

Quote:

you're citing the bible. this is what you believe god thinks. in christians opinion, what god thinks is all that matters. therefore, if you agree that everything god says is correct, then it is what you think, you do agree with it, and it does matter.
Well, if I don't agree, then God will send me to Hell. That's the beauty of the free will: we either willingly submit to God's Will, or we have the free choice of going to Hell.

Quote:

yes, i can agree with that, at least to some extent. however, i do not believe this includes the beds of women (or anyone else, of any gender, for that matter) who are single. i don't think anyone should be having sex in someone else's bed, regardless of who they're sleeping with, simply because that's rude,
Well, these days, we have guest rooms in our houses, but in the past, people would receive their guests in their own beds (either everyone sleeping together or the house owners moving to the floor). So again, people would be breaking that rule each time they receive guests in their houses.

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but i believe this is more in reference of cheating on one's spouse than anything else.
That is your interpretation of that highly confusing translation, and you are entitled to it.

Or, you could try to come up with your own translation based on the links I provided.

Quote:

elmer made some good points, and he seems quite educated.
He certainly is! :wub:

Quote:

i do think he has a point, however, in saying that the sin discussed in the passage was about trying to change the way you were created to be. i'm not saying this is what it means, exactly, i just think it was a fairly decent point, especially in the case of the ancient romans and their forced bisexuality.
Why would it be forced? I mean, sure, it certainly would have been forced on part of the boys who were on the "receiving end," but the same can be said of rapes of female slaves. Which would circle us back to the statement that rape of a male is worse than rape of a female.

Quote:

if the men of sodom were all exclusively gay, though (the only exception mentioned, as far as i remember, being lot), i'd expect lot would've known quite well that that was not the case. or, at least, that it was mostly not the case. i admit, i'm not sure.
That doesn't really matter, as what God abhors is the homosexual act - so whether these people were bi or gay, the fact that they would consider engaging in homosexual behavior made them disgusting in the eyes of the Lord.

Quote:

in what way is he regarding her as less important than his disciples in this verse? the way it's worded is a bit confusing to me, so i'd greatly appreciate if you could explain it to me further.
He preferred to spend time with His disciples than with His own mother, basically telling her to wait her turn. Is that something you would say to your mother, when she comes to visit after you haven't seen her for a while?

Plus, there are the verses in which Jesus tells us to hate our own mothers.

Quote:

i have some questions about this, and i'd appreciate if anyone could perhaps shed some light on this. god offered his son to die for sinners, so the gates of heaven could be opened, correct? but then he came back to life three days later. how exactly is this a big deal?
You are not the first person here to ask this question. I'll just say this: this world is God's creation, His world, His rules. Who are we to question Him?

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whereas jesus resurrected in three days.
One and a half day if we want to be 100% correct (He died Friday evening, was dead the whole Saturday, and revived Sunday morning).

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so why would he create satan if he knew he'd turn to evil? isn't that counter intuitive?
Isaiah 45:7. The evil was part of God's plan from the get-go.

Ezekiel Bathfire 11-29-2019 06:59 PM

Re: Does the Bible really say so many mean things?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrimmreaper (Post 1260976)
is... is this for real?

Landover is as real as the Fires of Hell, and we are but Servants of the Most High God who has tasked us, and all mankind, to follow His Laws that His Kingdom might come and that we may regain Paradise, which was lost at the Fall of Adam.

The Bible is God's Word and only God's Word. It is inerrant. All that is required is that you open your mind and heart, and you too may have Eternal Life with Jesus in Heaven.

Brother Gonzalez 11-29-2019 07:09 PM

Re: Does the Bible really say so many mean things?
 
thegrimmreaper, you are a racist. You write such long walls of text so the non-americans like myself cannot read them.

But I can have a lot of use for you, if instead of walls of text you want to build real walls.


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