Was Paul a Roman Spy?
 

I submit for my more learned True Christian™ Brothers THIS new controversy simmering in the world of Theology. Some broad at a Military College has been claiming that the Apostle Paul was actually an undercover spy for the Romans, and never actually accepted Christ as his Savior.

I'd be interested in hearing some Theological opinions on this from some of you True Christian™ Brothers out there on the matter. If it's true that Paul was a mole, well, that would change everything.

Re: Was Paul a Roman Spy?
 

Basically the NT says that after Jesus’s temporary death and resurrection, Saul is on the way to Damascus when he falls to the ground, is blinded by a light and Jesus tells him to continue to Damascus. Meanwhile in Damascus, Jesus tells Ananias to go to see Saul (he even gives him the address) whom He has chosen to spread the word. Ananias goes and restores Saul’s sight and baptizes him. Acts:9:3-19

Saul now tells the same story again and adds that whilst in the temple at Jerusalem, Jesus appears to him and tells him to leave and preach elsewhere as the people are not listening to him. Saul says it is because those whom he persecuted recognize him, and he leaves. Acts:22:6-21

A third telling comes in Acts:26:12-18 and is much the same.

In 1Cor:9:1, Saul says he saw Jesus (see Acts:22 above) and repeats it in 1Cor:15:3-8

Finally, Saul, now Paul, says he received his knowledge of the Gospel through Jesus Himself.Gal:11-12, 15-16.

Quote:

Gary Habermas is a distinguished research professor and chair of the Department of Philosophy and Theology at Liberty University. He says even liberal critics agree that the Apostle Paul was genuine when it came to his Christian faith. And according to Habermas, they also agree that Paul wrote at least half a dozen of the books found in the New Testament.

Of course, this is no proof whatsoever, to take a cynical view, those half-dozen books could just be copies of his reports to Rome*. No one disputes that Saul worked for the Romans and, by the nature of his job gathered and received intelligence – otherwise he would have just wandered about loosely looking for odd Christians, whereas with directed intelligence, he could catch many at a time and seek out the information Rome needed.

(*This in itself is of interest, for if he were a spy, then his reports would have been accurate and all non-believers’ doubts about Jesus’ existence would be destroyed.)

A good spy never reveals his source of information; in fact, he will go to some lengths to conceal it. You will note that Acts 9, which first tells the story, is written in past tense in the 3rd person. Now, who is there better to tell that piece of Godly History than Saul himself? Does this explain the 3rd person narrative?

“OK” I hear you say, but later, he writes in the first person – “Yes”, I reply, “An old spy writing his memories protected by time and distance.”

If Saul were blind and were made whole by Ananias, who was given Sauls address by God, this would be miraculous. Now Ananias was well respected and Saul (now Paul) would have known him from his spying. If Saul merely pretended to be blind, Ananias would have had to have been in on the job and Saul’s story about hearing Jesus would now be difficult to accept. It would, however, explain why Ananias knew where Saul was. So here we have the classic introduction method of the spy through deception and the sleeper, Ananias.

But why leave it until after the Crucifixion? The obvious answer is that during His time on earth, Jesus would have looked deep into Paul’s soul and seen the devil and the escapade would have been over. From another perspective, let us look at what the Romans wanted to know:
(i)Was Jesus all He claimed?
(ii)Was the movement growing or failing?
(iii)How many followers did He have?
(iv)Where did they meet?
(v)How militant were they?
(vi)How well organized?
(vii)How well funded?
(viii)Where were the leaders (The Apostles)? Etc.

So why didn’t the Romans merely ask Pilate? Well, you don’t ask someone, whose job depends on a success story, a question that might force him to give an “optimistic” answer. You send in a spy.

One further point: Paul’s place and date of death remains a mystery; some say Rome. However, in Rom:15:22–27 we have Paul’s desire to go to Spain and in the Apocrypha, in 1 Clement, we have the report,

“After that he had been seven times in bonds, had been driven into exile, had been stoned, had preached in the East and in the West, he won the noble renown which was the reward of his faith, having taught righteousness unto the whole world and having reached the farthest bounds of the West;”

This would seem to indicate Spain, which is about as far as he could get from anyone in The Holy Land who might have wanted to kill him for being a spy.

Seems like a open and shut case? Saul (cleverly changing his name to Paul so no one would recognize him) is a Roman in the pay of the Romans and ends his life in a villa in Spain with a fat pension.

Nice theory but, of course it is blown out of the water because Jesus Himself converted Saul and Jesus does not make mistakes.

Re: Was Paul a Roman Spy?
 

This is a real shame, a Liberty University professor denying the Bible! Jerry Falwell must be rolling in his grave. Liberty University used to be a fine institution of higher education, on a par with Pat Robertson University or Bob Jones University--not as elite a school as Landover Christian University, of course, but still a great place to go for a first-rate education untainted by the anti-Christian Marxist ideology so prevalent at the mainstream colleges.

If Liberty has any backbone, they'll send that idiot packing before he can cause any more trouble.

Re: Was Paul a Roman Spy?
 

Sadly for Mr. Falwell, he would be lucky if he didn't fall well into hell. If he is rolling over in his grave it is merely to present himself to Satan if you know what I mean.

There is little chance that any theological insight has ever come out of any of those McNascar "schools". To suggest St. Paul was a Roman spy is like saying Helen Keller painted the Sistine Chapel. (The Guernica maybe...)




Bless you, my God Challenged Jimmy Johnsons,
Father Mo



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Re: Was Paul a Roman Spy?
 

The broad from VMI is denying the Bible, not the professor from Liberty University!

Re: Was Paul a Roman Spy?
 

BLASPHEMY!!! Oh Jesus, when are you coming back?!

Re: Was Paul a Roman Spy?
 

Perhaps the Pharisee PAUL (and those perpetuating his double-minded cause) are guilty of Christian Espionage and Sabotage?

The Apostle Paul was previously a Pharisee (may still have been), and was from the apparently evil tribe of Benjamin (see Judges 19-21).
Jesus told us to "Beware of the Yeast of the Pharisees."
Paul was not with Christ and the 12 Disciples to witness directly Christ’s teachings, healings, and miracles.
Jesus said that it would be Peter “The Rock” upon whom the Church would be built, not Paul.
Paul explains this discrepancy by saying he is sent to the Gentiles and Peter is sent to the Jews.
Paul wrote most of the New Testament, not counting the 4 Gospels.
Paul spent several years in isolation after his supposed conversion.
The Bible says that he who isolates himself is not wise (or goes against all sound judgment).

It should not be hard for people to contemplate Paul as a Spy.
After all, Jesus chose Judas, and Judas ended up being a Spy.

Would you let a multiple offense child molester babysit your children.
Would you let a multiple offense DWI driver drive your kids.
Would you let a person with multiple offense Bank Fraud invest your money.
Would you let a person with multiple offenses against Christianity and Christians
be the guardian of your child's soul?
Would you let Judas?
Should you let Paul?

Paul, in Galatians, talks about being saved by faith alone, and yet, makes other long winded statements about those who do evil things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The Bible says that a Double minded man is unstable in all his ways. How can people be saved by Grace alone if they are constantly worrying about whether they (and others) are being good enough or not to inherit the Kingdom of God? Perhaps the Pharisee PAUL (and those perpetuating his double-minded cause) are guilty of Christian Espionage and Sabotage? If a religious faction wanted to stop the power of Christianity because they could not stop the spread of Christianity, what more covert and subversive a way than this? A modern analogy might be those wishing to stop the power of the internet because they cannot stop the spread of it, so they infiltrate the internet with viruses to make using it unbearable for people. Or they create the appearance of something good and useful and practical such as an email service (e.g. Yahoo.com, etc.) but with so many advertisement scripts running in the background, slowing the use of it down, that people become so frustrated with it that they become unstable, moving from email service to email service, or worse yet, they quit the internet altogether. “Been there, done that.”

Listen to the words Paul uses in Galatians Ch 2 vs 4,5 (NIV)
“This matter arose because some false believers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.
We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you.”
What is the old saying?, “The guilty dog barks first”.
And again in Galatians Ch 5 9,10 (NIV) “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.”
I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty.
“The guilty dog barks first”.

BUT KNOW THIS CHRISTIAN FRIENDS:
Religions based upon what we do, or what we don’t do, can never work.
A religion based upon what God has already done for us does work.
It is by the Grace of God, unmerited favor, that we are made righteous, because Jesus is righteous for us.
Nothing can separate us from the love and mercy of God through Jesus Christ our Savior.
One cannot walk on water unless that person focuses upon the perfect Jesus. Peter found that out.
One who focuses on trying to please God by obeying a moral code will sink. His inability condemns him.

At Jacob’s well, Jesus was more concerned that the woman understand the type of worship God wants
than he was in rebuking the woman into turning (repenting) from her wicked ways.
Jesus never told her to clean up her act, move out, or kick the dude out she was living with.
Without that burden, she was free in her heart and mind to bring people back from town to see and hear the wonderful Jesus for themselves.
They saw and heard and believed. They did not need a Bible to confuse them into thinking they needed to obey a moral code to inherit
Eternal Life as the Apostle Paul has perpetuated. No, instead, within a matter of minutes, they were saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone.

Listen to PAUL starting in Galations 5:19 (NIV) as he brings double minded teaching into the forefront after just talking about GRACE.
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Has the Bible become the Church’s way of rejecting God’s free Grace and imprisoning men to the old Mosaic system?
Consider the following:
God-->Abraham He believed the promise of Isaac being born to him in his old age and it was counted
unto Abraham as righteousness.
God-->Angels-->Moses-->Mosaic Law-->Levitical Priests-->Pharisees-->The People
Enslaved to a moral code.
See the irony? Moses was seen as a liberator of the enslaved Israelites.
Jesus-->The People They believed Jesus’ message and were saved by faith (without a Bible).
Jesus-->(His Disciples, The Pharisees, The Church Fathers)-->The Bible-->(Pastors, Priests, Preachers, and The People).
Enslaved again to a moral code.
Judas betrayed Jesus with a Kiss. The irony of this is: KISS.
Perhaps Judas was sending a code to the Church to: Keep It Simple Stupid.

Re: Was Paul a Roman Spy?
 

As Thomas Jefferson famously put it, Paul was "the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

Re: Was Paul a Roman Spy?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrothersAgainstPaul (Post 741866) Perhaps the Pharisee PAUL (and those perpetuating his double-minded cause) are guilty of Christian Espionage and Sabotage? […]

A long and persuasive argument, defeated by the author: KISS doesn’t work in Aramaic or Hebrew.

Please see my earlier observation:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire (Post 269783) Nice theory but, of course it is blown out of the water because Jesus Himself converted Saul and Jesus does not make mistakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel Coleridge (Post 741876) As Thomas Jefferson famously put it, Paul was "the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

Mr Jefferson’s views were more an emphasis of the Faith he had in Jesus than a criticism of Paul. For are not all imperfect? And Paul, a human, although blessed with violent headaches, flashing lights and falling over (a sure sign of being a conduit for Jesus) was no different. Mr Jefferson’s longing to hear more of Jesus’ words is quite natural but perhaps he was tired and emotional when he made that statement.