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-   -   "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblical! (https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=37799)

Mistress Cookie 02-23-2010 01:18 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne (Post 476655)
I do not think that this story is artificial and introduced by liberals. I must defend the newer members Godfly and A Follower, since they both reaffirm the fact that as Christians, the AV1611 KJV is the only True Word of God©.

So...the passages John 8:1-11 and Mark 16:9-20 are still in? I pulled them out after reading Brother Basher's warning

:(

I'm confused ! !

Capt. Aaron Portway 02-23-2010 01:21 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne (Post 476655)
I do not think that this story is artificial and introduced by liberals. I must defend the newer members Godfly and A Follower, since they both reaffirm the fact that as Christians, the AV1611 KJV is the only True Word of God©.

It is important to remember that this story does not mean Jesus permits people to sin at will, or is against capital punishment. Jesus tells the Pharisees (Jews) that if they are without sin, then they can cast the first stone. Since they are Jews, and haven't accepted Christ as their savior, then they have sin.

We must also heed Jesus's final words..."Go and sin no more". This is a commandment to not sin again. Yet a liberal "Christian" will tell you that Christians aren't perfect and sin all the time, yet here is Jesus telling these false Christians "No, you are wrong. I expect my followers to not sin at all!"

I understand that liberal false Christians have hijacked this story and turned it into a "thou shalt not judge" allegory, but nothing could be further than the truth. What this story illustrates is that only a True Christian™ is without sin (and therefore can cast the first stone) and that Jesus expects True Christians™ to never sin again.

This story is very important to me as a pastor, since it gives me the license to freely judge and rebuke others at my will. Since I am without sin, I have the right to cast the first stone. Yet, if we are to consider this story artificial, then by what right can I lovingly rebuke heathens?

So Reverend, and I'm speaking purely hypothetically here, let's say you and I were somewhere we could apply the laws of the Bible. And there was a homer, or a disobedient child, or some such sinner we needed to stone. But we were the only True Christians™ around and we needed help.

Could we get some false Christians to help us stone the sinner, as long as you or I threw the first couple of rocks? I've always been worried I might find myself in a situation like this and I wouldn't know what God would want me to do.

James Dewitt 02-23-2010 01:27 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
I am so very conflicted at this point. Is Brother HB correct, I just do not know what to think. I feel the need for a warm glass of milk and the KJV1611. I will have to pray to God long and hard over this major set back.

Meek and Humble 02-23-2010 01:29 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress Cookie (Post 476703)
So...the passages John 8:1-11 and Mark 16:9-20 are still in? I pulled them out after reading Brother Basher's warning

:(

I'm confused ! !

No, no, Sister. Mark 16:9-20 were ALWAYS a part of the Bible, in 90% of all early manuscripts.

John 8:1-11, on the other hand, is ABSENT from 90% of all early manuscripts.

A Follower 02-23-2010 01:35 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher (Post 476701)
http://www.conservapedia.com/John_8-14_(Translated)

"The evidence is overwhelming that verses 1 - 11 are not original to John. See Essay:Adulteress Story for an extended examination of the issues relating to this passage, including the talk pages of that essay. You can also see the wikipedia article on this story, which contains a very detailed and accurate listing of the textual evidence relating to this story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_the_woman_taken_in_adultery (the one note I would make relating to the textual evidence is that most scholars now agree that P66 and P75 are second century documents, not third century, as this article states). See the talk page here for an explanation of my views and reasoning regarding this passage, including why I believe this event actually happened, but still hold that it should NOT be included in the bible. "

So a link to wikipedia is supposed to be enough to support your heresy? Could you please say who these "scholars" are, and whether it's true they are all affiliated with the Vatican? If the passage is wrong, why didn't God have the passage removed or changed when He had the KJV written back in the early 17th century? Or included your "evidence" somewhere in a footnote?

If a random wikipedia article is enough for you to conclude God is not omnipotent, that the Bible is incorrect, that you are a better arbiter of truth than Jesus, that all those admonitions from the Word of God saying that it is accurate and to the last comma, and that it will always remain true, what other changes to Gods Word do you have in store for us? And don't bother claiming you're some sort of prophet, the Bible tells us no prophet will change or invalidate earlier prophecies or laws.

Professor Bessemer 02-23-2010 01:37 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
I think we need to excuse the confusion of Brother Basher. He has not been himself lately. Why just this afternoon I saw him riding his bicycle to the grocery store! I asked him why he wasn't driving his F350 and his response, and I may be slightly paraphrasing here, was "I'm only picking up a carton of juice and I figured I would save some gas. And it's better for the environment."

I of course do not need to point out to those who know him how very odd it was to hear those words from him. I do hope he is alright.

Godfly 02-23-2010 01:41 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne (Post 476655)
I do not think that this story is artificial and introduced by liberals. I must defend the newer members Godfly and A Follower, since they both reaffirm the fact that as Christians, the AV1611 KJV is the only True Word of God©.

I would also like to clarify that I did not mean to imply that Brother Basher is anything other than a True Christian. I am however very suspicious of the person who wrote the article at conservapedia. I have been taken advantage of by false Christians in the past and they can be very clever at sounding like True Christian's in order to gain our trust. Then they say something foolish like"The Assemblies of God recognizes value in and accepts the usefulness of several Bible translations."

Here are some things that the author writes that invalidate his argument.

-Since I am functioning primarily as a translator here

Why would he function as translator when God already translated the Bible into English.

-
Scholars have long accepted

We always get in trouble when we listen to scholars and not Pastors.

-discounting the "intentional corruption" theories of the "KJV only" crowd (for which there is not one single shred of actual evidence)

Is he scoffing at us?

-as these are the seven oldest complete or nearly complete copies of John in existence.

He failed to add flawed! John wasn't perfect until God translated it into English in the 1611 KJV.

Fear not Brother Basher. Many of us have been taken in by charlatans. But we will always have other True Christians to set us back on the right path.

Meek and Humble 02-23-2010 01:44 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A Follower (Post 476720)
So a link to wikipedia is supposed to be enough to support your heresy? Could you please say who these "scholars" are, and whether it's true they are all affiliated with the Vatican? If the passage is wrong, why didn't God have the passage removed or changed when He had the KJV written back in the early 17th century? Or included your "evidence" somewhere in a footnote?

If a random wikipedia article is enough for you to conclude God is not omnipotent, that the Bible is incorrect, that you are a better arbiter of truth than Jesus, that all those admonitions from the Word of God saying that it is accurate and to the last comma, and that it will always remain true, what other changes to Gods Word do you have in store for us? And don't bother claiming you're some sort of prophet, the Bible tells us no prophet will change or invalidate earlier prophecies or laws.

Don't be silly. It was Catholics who added it into the Bible, just as they added the apocrypha. That was also in the KJV, but that doesn't mean it's inspired.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Es...ulteress_Story

Official Bible translations already recognize that the passage is not authentic. Yet why is it increasingly taught anyway? Because it has an unmistakable liberal spin to it. Let's point out the obvious

Mistress Cookie 02-23-2010 01:47 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher (Post 476715)
No, no, Sister. Mark 16:9-20 were ALWAYS a part of the Bible, in 90% of all early manuscripts.

Okay, I fished the Mark ones out of the fireplace and I'm taping them back in. I can't find the John ones. Those might have gone in the garbage. But I'll look for them and just set them aside for now.

Maybe there needs to be a Town Council meeting about this?? It's really an important issue, and I want to get to the bottom of it, along with you.

Cranky Old Man 02-23-2010 01:50 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher (Post 476734)
It was Catholics who added it into the Bible, just as they added the apocrypha

Does that matter? Doesn't the fact that God allowed it to be in there mean that it is supposed to be in there? I can understand why catholics being involved would make you suspicious, but I am sure the Holy Spirit inspired the translators of King James to keep it in there for a good reason.

James Dewitt 02-23-2010 01:51 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress Cookie (Post 476736)
Okay, I fished the Mark ones out of the fireplace and I'm taping them back in. I can't find the John ones. Those might have gone in the garbage. But I'll look for them and just set them aside for now.

Maybe there needs to be a Town Council meeting about this?? It's really an important issue, and I want to get to the bottom of it, along with you.

I agree Mistress, and don't worry I have a brand new spare KJV1611 for you . I always keep 4 or5 extra.

Godfly 02-23-2010 01:58 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistress Cookie (Post 476736)
Okay, I fished the Mark ones out of the fireplace and I'm taping them back in. I can't find the John ones. Those might have gone in the garbage. But I'll look for them and just set them aside for now.

Maybe there needs to be a Town Council meeting about this?? It's really an important issue, and I want to get to the bottom of it, along with you.

You can just take the KJV from the overnight bag I left at your house during the last stradagy session for Pastor Zeke. Keep it with my complements.

A Follower 02-23-2010 02:08 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher (Post 476734)
Don't be silly. It was Catholics who added it into the Bible, just as they added the apocrypha. That was also in the KJV, but that doesn't mean it's inspired.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Es...ulteress_Story

Official Bible translations already recognize that the passage is not authentic. Yet why is it increasingly taught anyway? Because it has an unmistakable liberal spin to it. Let's point out the obvious

The apocrypha are clearly marked in the KJV as not really belonging in the Bible. The passage you want scrapped is not marked in any special way.

I have now read all the comments on the conservapedia site. Not one of the commenters seems to be a religious scholar. One claims he will inform the vatican. The argument for removal is led by only one person, others on his side write at most one message. The claims aren't backed up well, all he does is claim it's liberal (even though the pastor here and several people on that site explain it isn't) , and as far as finding scholars who support him goes, he manages to find one scholar who isn't sure it should be in the Bible, but is sure it's a truthful story. No other evidence or scholars on his side are available.

I think you really should listen to the Reverend, and accept that the Bible is correct.

Meek and Humble 02-23-2010 03:48 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Essay:Adulteress_Story

"Atheism and much of liberal ideology is antithetical to Christian values. There's no denying it. The adulteress story is plainly not authentic and it is used to advance a liberal political agenda. Enough said - the story should be recognized to be phony"

A Follower 02-23-2010 03:59 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher (Post 476805)
http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Essay:Adulteress_Story

"Atheism and much of liberal ideology is antithetical to Christian values. There's no denying it. The adulteress story is plainly not authentic and it is used to advance a liberal political agenda. Enough said - the story should be recognized to be phony"

You keep repeating the same thing over and over, it looks like my earlier post about catholicism wasn't far of the mark.

I've seen that claim, it is wrong. The Bible is not liberal or atheistic. Even the specific verses you want to remove features Jesus Himself, how is that atheist? What's liberal about denying rights to unbelievers as those verses command us to do?

Just look at yourself, you are not answering any of the questions I have for you, nor do you submit to the wise guidance of the Pastor, nor are your claims backed up by Scripture, all you have in support of your theories is some crackpot commenters on a wacky liberal site. None of the commenters there is God. Do you have any idea how much your behavior looks like the behavior of the countless heathen drones that invade this Godly site every day? If it wasn't so sad it would be funny...

Godfly 02-23-2010 04:10 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher (Post 476805)
http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Essay:Adulteress_Story

"Atheism and much of liberal ideology is antithetical to Christian values. There's no denying it. The adulteress story is plainly not authentic and it is used to advance a liberal political agenda. Enough said - the story should be recognized to be phony"

Please turn away from this terrible course. You who have guided so many toward righteousness! You talk about "evidence" but what are you going to believe, evidence or the Word of God? You are falling into the trap of the evilootionists, and atheists, who talk about this and that evidence or lack of evidence. The story is in THE Bible! It is there and so it is true. Any of this so called "evidence" is rendered moot by that fact.

Please stop this foolish quest Brother. The Truth is right there for you to see in black and white.

We all agree that the liberals have perverted the Truth. But don't let that fool you into cutting up your Bible.

Meek and Humble 02-23-2010 04:17 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A Follower (Post 476812)
You keep repeating the same thing over and over, it looks like my earlier post about catholicism wasn't far of the mark.

I've seen that claim, it is wrong. The Bible is not liberal or atheistic. Even the specific verses you want to remove features Jesus Himself, how is that atheist? What's liberal about denying rights to unbelievers as those verses command us to do?

Just look at yourself, you are not answering any of the questions I have for you, nor do you submit to the wise guidance of the Pastor, nor are your claims backed up by Scripture, all you have in support of your theories is some crackpot commenters on a wacky liberal site. None of the commenters there is God. Do you have any idea how much your behavior looks like the behavior of the countless heathen drones that invade this Godly site every day? If it wasn't so sad it would be funny...

"Scholars agree and the documentary evidence proves that the adulteress story was added later. Motivation (politics) is relevant to understanding why logic and proof are rejected, and why the passage remains in the Bible"

Samuel Coleridge 02-23-2010 04:32 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher (Post 476715)
No, no, Sister. Mark 16:9-20 were ALWAYS a part of the Bible, in 90% of all early manuscripts.

John 8:1-11, on the other hand, is ABSENT from 90% of all early manuscripts.

Ah yes. Let's now subtract the parts of the Bible that are inconvenient to your right wing views. :thumbdown:

Luther tried the same thing with the book of James because he found he couldn't reconcile it with the Pauline letters.

I see how it is with you fundies now.
And you always accuse us of ignoring the parts we don't like. :lol:

Meek and Humble 02-23-2010 05:02 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel Coleridge (Post 476846)
Ah yes. Let's now subtract the parts of the Bible that are inconvenient to your right wing views. :thumbdown:

Luther tried the same thing with the book of James because he found he couldn't reconcile it with the Pauline letters.

I see how it is with you fundies now.
And you always accuse us of ignoring the parts we don't like. :lol:

"I've done a quick bit of research, and it does appear that most scholars believe that it was added later, and their evidence does appear to be sound. Interestingly some who believe that it was added later (and is therefore not canonical) also believe that it's likely that the account is true, just not put there by John."

Cranky Old Man 02-23-2010 09:41 AM

Re: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - not Biblic
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathen_Basher (Post 476862)
also believe that it's likely that the account is true, just not put there by John

Which proves the point I made before that even though it perhaps is missing from the original scripture the Holy Spirit clearly guided us to get it in the KJV1611 Holy Bible. Probably some evil person tried to twist the Bible by stealing some pages but our Almighty LORD just fixed that on the spot. Praise Jesus.

Shall we now stop bickering about this and relax a bit with our 100% perfect KJV1611 Holy Bibles? We have evil Icelanders to deal with.


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