Is the Bible against abortion?
 

Being a conservative God fearing man, I have always believed when my pastors, theological professors and fellow congregants told me the Bible is against abortion.
The Jesus I have read about is kind to children. He wants children to believe in Him and wants them to come to Him. We wants them to believe in His virgin birth, his turning of water into wine, his making thousands of fish and bread loaves out of a few that one time. He wants them to cry when they think about His dying sorta for three whole days. He wants them to think of Him as cute and precious sacrificial lamb that we will all eat the flesh of and drink the blood of. John 6:53-56.


It makes sense that Jesus loves all the children and wants them to come to Him. He makes this abundantly clear. Jesus tells us that it would be better for someone to be executed by drowning for causing children to fall into sin. By "tying a millstone around his neck." Matthew 18:6, Mark 9:42


There's no question Jesus wants little children to follow Him. There is a story where the disciples are trying to stop small children from coming up to Jesus to receive a laying of hands. Jesus sharply criticizes His apostles for not letting the kids come to Him. Matt 19, Luke 18, Mark 10.
But what about the unborn? Surely our Lord Jesus wants to see them grow up, so they can accept Him into their hearts freely. Maybe not. As the great hope for Christian apologetics in the modern world, the brilliantly sublime theologian William Lane Craig is quick to point out, sometimes we just need to listen for God's command to kill them all and then let Him sort out whether any were innocent or not.

By setting such strong, harsh dichotomies God taught Israel that any assimilation to pagan idolatry is intolerable. It was His way of preserving Israel’s spiritual health and posterity. God knew that if these Canaanite children were allowed to live, they would spell the undoing of Israel. The killing of the Canaanite children not only served to prevent assimilation to Canaanite identity but also served as a shattering, tangible illustration of Israel’s being set exclusively apart for God.
Moreover, if we believe, as I do, that God’s grace is extended to those who die in infancy or as small children, the death of these children was actually their salvation. We are so wedded to an earthly, naturalistic perspective that we forget that those who die are happy to quit this earth for heaven’s incomparable joy. Therefore, God does these children no wrong in taking their lives.

Knowing this, we need to keep an open mind for what God and Craig are saying to us. Sometimes a timely abortion could be leading to a child's salvation.

Genesis 38:24 And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.

Did Moses spare the children or the unborn of the Moabites? No he did not. For the heinous crime of intermarrying with the Israelites and using sex as a weapon to convert the people of Israel over to idol worship, he commanded all men, women and male children to be killed. The same young women who were wooing the men over to idol worship were mercifully spared, however.

Numbers 31:15-18 15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

What will be the curse against God's enemies in Hosea 9? God will cause massive abortions to them everywhere. God promises to slay their children in the womb. Does it sound like our God is against abortion in this case?

11 As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception.
12 Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them!
13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
14 Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.
16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb (their children).

How did God punish David for his sin of breaking up a marriage and getting a woman's husband killed on purpose? God forgave David, but He killed the baby.

13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord. And Nathan said unto David, The Lord also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
15 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the Lord struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

Did the nobility of Israel call for peace and pray for their captors' children in Babylon? Not quite. They instead looked forward to the day when King Cyrus' men of Persia would dash their children's heads against the rocks in revenge.

Isaiah 13:16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
Psalm 137:8-9 8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

In Pentatuch law a person was not counted until he was at least one month old. Some may say this only applies to the priest caste. But if the holiest of people did not count as a person until one month old, what makes you think the rest counted from the womb?

Numbers 3:15 Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them.

For the valuation of a life of a child, it is only counted as being one month old to five years old. Children in the womb again don't count as children.

Leviticus 27:6 And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.

If two men are fighting and a woman gets hurt from the battle causing her unborn to miscarry, the Bible tells us. If the child dies, the man who hit her must be fined according to what the husband and the judges find fair. If the mother dies, then the penalty for murder applies. But it does not count as murder if the unborn child dies.

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/wordp...us-300x257.jpgExodus 21:22-25
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

As I feel silly for forgetting this originally, there is the the ordeal of the bitter waters as well. If a man feels that his wife may have cheated on him, he can take her to the priests and they administer a test. Once she drinks the bitter waters, if she is innocent and the child is the husband's, nothing will happen and she will conceive. But if she is guilty of whoredoms and fornication, the child will be aborted and will depart her womb prematurely.

Numbers 5:
27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

But that's the Old Testament!

Yeah, 3/4th's of the Bible is the Old Testament. You'll use Old Testament verses to attempt to prove that the Bible is against abortion. But I have some new Testament for you too.
John the Divine sees that a certain Jezebel leading the Church astray with sex and idolatry will have her children killed as revenge. You may say, "That means her followers. Not her actual children." Have you been actually reading this article? Go back and reread the entire thing and get back to me on that.

Revelation 18, 20-23
18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Thank you so much for reading this. I have no doubt every theological seminary in the world will be clamoring for this knowledge. I can already see the honorary doctorates flying up on my wall. Since we are all Christians and only go by what the Bible teaches us, don't you feel good knowing that not all abortion is wrong in the eyes of God?

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

I greatly appreciate your having brought this to the attention of others. However as my signature line and favorite Biblical passage indicates, I already knew how God feels about the babies of our enemies.


And make no mistake, a loose harlot running flinging herself at every passerby for sexual gratification on the weekend only to visit the corner abortion clinic on Monday is an enemy of God. So are the doctors and nurses who enable this sluttish behavior.


This is a very simple message. Abortion is wrong not because of a child being killed. Abortion is wrong because it is a link in the chain of immoral behavior. As long as you are killing babies for a Godly cause, baby murder is fine and dandy.

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

Dear Pastor,

Our Creation Science team has worked for the past 7 years to re-create the bitter water described in Numbers 5:12-28.

I think that the passage provides an important addendum to your article. Basically, it is about bastards. The real victim of adultery is of course the husband, so God offered the victim a way out: The husband could by his choice and free will present his adulterous wife to a priest. The woman would drink bitter water and had she sinned, the bastard would be terminated. This is also an elegant way to give responsibility to the one that suffers from adultery and the following pregnancy the most, the betrayed husband.

Numbers 5:27
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

The tincture is available for suspicious husbands at the Lamentations Flint Memorial Building. The efficacy has been staggering, as all the women who've drank it have actually been proven to have committed adultery! We're still investigating if this would also prove to be an efficient method to discern bestial fornication and the use of inanimate objects for unnatural pleasure.

Jeremiah 3:9
And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.

Yours in Christ,

Elmer :bye:

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

Astounding how many adulterous wives there are. This is surely a sign of our degenerate times. One would think at least a few would have proven innocent, but every single one guilty. How incredibly disheartening. Harlots, harlots everywhere!


How any could deny that Judgement Day is soon at hand is a great mystery to me.

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

How could I have forgotten the Ordeal of the Bitter Waters? Thank you for that reminder, doctor.

Obviously, you may not want to share your recipe for abortion water with the unsaved, but I can only imagine the massive amount of trial and error mixtures you guys must have had to go through to replicate tabernacle dust and the perfect earthen vessel.

Maybe you are importing them from Fukishima? Too soon?

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

These are very important verses, Pastor.

Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Both of these verses specify that only children than believe in Him are the ones that should not be offended. That clearly does not apply to millions of disobedient, ungrateful brats that just cry and poop incessantly, and do not spend any time praising :jesus-fancy:. Based on that assertion combined with the Numbers 31:17, Hosea 13:16, Psalm 137:9 and other verses that you cite, I think it is safe to assume that God allows killing these atheist/heathen babies (both born and unborn) without any restrictions.

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

Surprisingly, Dallas Theological Seminary has not called to congratulate me on my amazing biblical findings.

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

God often kills children to punish their parents if they tick God off.

Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14


Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16



If a nation rubs God the wrong way He will go on one of his glorious killing sprees and lay waste to the babies in the womb and of course since they have not accepted Jesus they end up in the fires of hell for all eternity.


Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16


Since God is all knowing he knows that the babies he kills belong in hell anyway as indicated in Eph.1:4-5 "He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation."


Obviously, the babies God kills and sends to hell did it to themselves. God doesn't make mistakes.

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

Let's be honest. The problem with abortion is women taking into their own hands and uteri the power and authority that God placed into the hands of men.

God put men in charge of women and that includes everything that goes on in their lady-parts. Only uppity women think that they have any say about any of their internal organs.


It makes sense when you think about it. God used an inner part of Adam to make Eve. Therefore, Adam had every claim to all of Eve's working parts. His authority over her literally came from the inside out.

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

It is so refreshing to come across a good Christian woman who knows her role. Praise!

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

Well I don't know much about the Bible, but I do know the Satanic Bible is awesome :thumbsup:

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

Of course it is, dear child. You're very cute but obviously astray if you think that True Christians™ would be intimidated by the name of the Enemy. We're not because we have actual reference material that tells us what will eventually happen to the entity that you worship:

Revelation 20:3
And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Now, what are your justifications and actual proof that would demonstrate the superiority of Anton LeVey's 1969 book? That is one of the questions that you can assess on the Introduction Forum. Now you can shashey there.


Yours in Christ,

Elmer :bye:

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

Killing a child by abortion or killing it while its still an infant is Limbo and does not get the benefit to live and its also killing God's creation. It makes me feel sad inside and the feeling of my soul being crippled to be set free from my body.

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

Limbo is a made-up fairyland place created by the pope to insure his followers were frightened enough to pay ransom against their futures. This contributed to the sales of Indulgences, for which the Roman church eventually faced the troll of the millennia when Martin Luther King, one of their own, beat them at their own game.


But this thread is about the Bible, and Limbo is nowhere to be found in the Bible. In this forum we discuss real events, past and future, not imaginary scenarios one might conceive in a drunken stupor with a bunch of camel-skin wearing alcoholic monks.

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

To reiterate: In regards to abortion, the actual death of the child is a secondary matter. God's Holy Word is full of children of different ages being put to death in service to God's Holy Will.

The primary problem for abortion as far as God is concerned is the issue of choice. And that is the central theme that women's reproductive rights advocates are always carrying on about.

Right from the get go, in the book of Genesis, God makes it clear through His Revealed Word, that when women are given a choice, Bad Things Happen.

Genesis 3:6
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So, to sum up and re-articulate what I pointed out in my earlier post, abortion is essentially wrong because women cannot be trusted to make life or death decisions.

Let them decide which fabric to use when making kitchen curtains, fine. Beyond that, men must retain All Power and Authority for themselves, or Satan will win.

That is why our Dear Leader, President Donald J. Trump, did not have any women present when he signed an executive order denying "In God We Trust" United States dollars to any overseas health organizations that so much as mention the word "abortion" to any woman who comes to them for care.

http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/...che=rkrpwlrz7v


It may take some time before Trump can exert such control over the lives of American women, but in many nations across the world, Trump is shutting the Serpent's trap before he can even offer up the information about the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge.

Just remember:


Abortion (services for women)= knowledge+power= Sin


If you remove the information in the parenthesis, the equation changes . . . Or, at least, I think so. Being a woman, I can't really be expected to understand math.

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

As I mentioned in another thread children are the property of the husband/father. Not the wife. The biggest problem with abortion is that it lets the mother, someone who has no right or claim to the property destroy/kill it. Is it okay for someone else to smash your TV, computer, or car? No.

If it were the father that were given the right to terminate the pregnancy, I might reconsider my stance on abortion. Of course, many of these women are such harlots that they probably don't know who the father is or are willing to lie about it. Unfortunately, many men are deceived by these harlots. So it's risky to give this authority to anyone who just claims to be the father.



I think this is the only viable solution that takes the rights of all parties (that is to say, the rights of the husband/father to terminate the pregnancy and the rights of the mothers to have no say in the matter) into account.


Perhaps this is a tad of an extreme measure, but I wonder if making this bitter water a mandatory drink for all pregnant women wouldn't be a good idea. Most men are too ignorant or too cowardly to accuse their wife of cheating on them. While I am skeptical of secular science, I feel there may be some truth in this particular article due to my even greater skepticism of women One in 25 fathers is not biological parent - study. Now, I know what your immediate reaction might be "Most of these guys who would take care of someone else's kids aren't true Christians, and they deserve what they get." but it's these types of relationships that breed criminals, welfare parasites, and worst of all, Democrat voters into our society. I'm also sure that the would be adopted fathers to someone else's children would appreciate the revelation that their wives weren't as faithful as they thought they were. It could enough be the catalyst needed to turn many of these fornicators away from sin and into a True Christian™ lifestyle, knowing that only a True Christian™ wife will provide the values needed to raise a family. Making this solution mandatory would be a great benefit to society as a whole, and you could make a tidy profit along the way.

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

Re: Is the Bible against abortion?
 

I reviewed this thread and tried to follow the complex and deep philosophical arguments. I'm not a theologian and my summary of everything presented may reflect this.

I find the Bible condemns abortion by a.) the many references to how much Jesus and a few others loved children and b.) when children were killed, disciplined or treated badly it was because their parents sinned and this was God's punishment.

This is why we know without question God hates abortion.