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-   -   The Christian guide to TORTURING your children (https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=94599)

this_one 05-06-2014 03:57 AM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A Follower (Post 1086497)
Typical atheist logic, thinking mass murder is good thing. It's people like you who grow up to be Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot, they killed millions each. We Christians believe murder is usually wrong, because God forbids it in quite a few cases. We are the good people.

Good people usually don't abuse their children, do they? At least the law seems to think so.

A Follower 05-06-2014 04:07 AM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by this_one (Post 1086498)
Good people usually don't abuse their children, do they? At least the law seems to think so.

It's not abuse. A few bruises to prevent an eternity of suffering is kindness. If I hated my children the worst thing I could do to them is stop caring about them, about how they will end up, never punishing them for their misbehavior. Fortunately I love my children.

And I don't know what law you're speaking of, it is not God's Law, as has been proven time and time again in this thread, God requires a regular spanking to raise a Godly child.

this_one 05-06-2014 04:33 AM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by A Follower (Post 1086500)
It's not abuse. A few bruises to prevent an eternity of suffering is kindness. If I hated my children the worst thing I could do to them is stop caring about them, about how they will end up, never punishing them for their misbehavior. Fortunately I love my children.

And I don't know what law you're speaking of, it is not God's Law, as has been proven time and time again in this thread, God requires a regular spanking to raise a Godly child.

I'm speaking about the law of the country you live in. Last time I checked, you have to abide by it or you could be punished. I hope that somebody reports you to the authorities, if only to save that poor family of yours.
If you think abuse is caring, then PLEASE, stop caring for them. They will be grateful.

Cranky Old Man 05-06-2014 09:49 AM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by this_one (Post 1086502)
If you think abuse is caring, then PLEASE, stop caring for them. They will be grateful.

Yes they will. They will be grateful that they can do whatever they want without ever getting punished. They will start stealing, have sex before marriage or do even worse and vote for Obama. Then, after a happy life, they will burn in Hell for all eternity. And then they will finally realize, too late, why children have to be disciplined if they break the rules. And they will hate you for all eternity for refusing to do your job as a parent.

Children are not supposed to be happy or grateful. They have to fear God so they obey His commandments. As this is the only way they will ever be allowed in Heaven.

Proverbs 14:26

King James Version (KJV)
26 In the fear of the Lord is strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge.

this_one 05-06-2014 10:26 AM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cranky Old Man (Post 1086540)
Yes they will. They will be grateful that they can do whatever they want without ever getting punished. They will start stealing, have sex before marriage or do even worse and vote for Obama.

So, you are basically saying that children who are not abused turn to crime? I beg to differ. Statistical research clearly shows that abused children are much more likely to commit crimes, abuse substances etc.

Attila's Wife 05-06-2014 11:27 AM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by this_one (Post 1086546)
So, you are basically saying that children who are not abused turn to crime? I beg to differ. Statistical research clearly shows that abused children are much more likely to commit crimes, abuse substances etc.

Ah, statistics: the third and worst kind of lie. :thumbdown:

JewPincher 05-06-2014 11:33 AM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by this_one (Post 1086546)
So, you are basically saying that children who are not abused turn to crime? I beg to differ. Statistical research clearly shows that abused children are much more likely to commit crimes, abuse substances etc.

The problem with that is YOUR "statistics" are influenced by the deceptive liberals. So you don't get a true statistic. The only RIGHT law is what God commands of us. Maybe you should remember the fact that many laws come about due to the influence of Satan in the world.

this_one 05-06-2014 11:51 AM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JewPincher (Post 1086554)
The problem with that is YOUR "statistics" are influenced by the deceptive liberals. So you don't get a true statistic. The only RIGHT law is what God commands of us. Maybe you should remember the fact that many laws come about due to the influence of Satan in the world.

I would appreciate a proof of that. Because without a proof, the things you are saying are just your personal opinion. And since the Bible seems to be the only relevant source of truth to you, I would love to see a Bible quote where it explicitly says that Satan influences laws and that statistics are influenced by deceptive liberals. Thank you ever so much :)

lukasekman 05-06-2014 12:02 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rolledupboob (Post 1085085)
Did your daddy make you wear women's clothes?

Wasn't necessary for me, but I'm sure he would do it if he had to do. Spanking, cold showers and having my mouth occasional washed out with soap fulfilled my youth need for discipline and encouragement, and provided the natural crisis I needed to grow up.

Attila's Wife 05-06-2014 12:08 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by this_one (Post 1086557)
I would appreciate a proof of that. Because without a proof, the things you are saying are just your personal opinion.

In this context, let's take a look at your statement above:

Quote:

Statistical research clearly shows that abused children are much more likely to commit crimes,
This is simply an assertion by you, made without supporting evidence. What statistical research? Research by whom, when and where? Peer reviewed papers only, please.

James Ashton 05-06-2014 12:32 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by this_one (Post 1086557)
I would appreciate a proof of that. Because without a proof, the things you are saying are just your personal opinion. And since the Bible seems to be the only relevant source of truth to you, I would love to see a Bible quote where it explicitly says that Satan influences laws and that statistics are influenced by deceptive liberals. Thank you ever so much :)



Silly girl. The best * bits of statistics are about hiding the truth: about taking the "average" and giving that instead of giving all the numbers or about asking only a certain number of people a question and pretending it applies to everyone.


God doesn't want us to do that. He wants us to show all the information. When Solomon was making his sea, does God say "oh, it was pretty big"? No, he tells us precisely how big:


1 Kings 7:23
And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.


or what about Mithredath the treasurer? Your precious lieberal statistics would say he brought a "mean" (and I pass by why you use a word like that instead of a "happy" or a "love") amount. Not God though:


Ezra 1:8-11
even those did Cyrus king of Persia bring forth by the hand of Mithredath the treasurer, and numbered them unto Sheshbazzar, the prince of Judah. And this is the number of them: thirty chargers of gold, a thousand chargers of silver, nine and twenty knives, thirty basons of gold, silver basons of a second sort four hundred and ten, and other vessels a thousand. All the vessels of gold and of silver were five thousand and four hundred. All these did Sheshbazzar bring up with them of the captivity that were brought up from Babylon unto Jerusalem.


God is precise.


* As for the worst bits? Are you familiar with the phrase "standard deviation"? Statisticians are - it's how much of a deviant you are required to be to be considered "standard" by them.

this_one 05-06-2014 12:33 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Attila's Wife (Post 1086559)
This is simply an assertion by you, made without supporting evidence. What statistical research? Research by whom, when and where? Peer reviewed papers only, please.

Here are just a few of the many papers and articles available on the subject:
http://ftp.iza.org/dp2063.pdf
http://www.nber.org/digest/jan07/w12171.html
http://nij.gov/topics/crime/child-ab...imization.aspx
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science...turn_to_crime/

Now I would like to see the Bible quote about laws being made by Satan and statistics being made by deceptive liberals. Thank you :)

this_one 05-06-2014 12:41 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Ashton (Post 1086562)
Are you familiar with the phrase "standard deviation"? Statisticians are - it's how much of a deviant you are required to be to be considered "standard" by them.

It seems that you aren't familiar with that phrase yourself. Here is what Encyclopedia Britannica has to say on the subject: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...dard-deviation
In case you don't understand this explanation, let this silly girl rephrase it for you: standard deviation signifies the difference between a statistical average of a variable and the lowest or highest instance of such variable. In other words, it measures how different anything or anyone is from the average.

James Ashton 05-06-2014 12:42 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Also, from your own papers:


Quote:

When the researchers looked at the children's race, they found that white children who had been abused and neglected were no more likely to be arrested for a violent crime than those who had not been abused or neglected.

Did you actually check what they said before posting them?

this_one 05-06-2014 12:47 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
From the same paper:
Quote:

We find that maltreatment approximately doubles the probability of engaging in many types of crime.

James Ashton 05-06-2014 12:51 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
So we're agreed then. Your papers are written by hypocrites who say one thing in one place and something different in another.


This is what JewPincher was likely referring to when he was talking about not getting a true picture.


Glad I was able to help clear that up for you.

this_one 05-06-2014 12:55 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by James Ashton (Post 1086575)
So we're agreed then. Your papers are written by hypocrites who say one thing in one place and something different in another.


This is what JewPincher was likely referring to when he was talking about not getting a true picture.


Glad I was able to help clear that up for you.

Thank you very much, it's all clear now!

Now, could you please point me to the quote from the Bible which says that laws come from Satan and that statistics are made by deceptive liberals? Because as you said elsewhere, the only truth comes from the Bible. If you (or someone else) are unable to find such a quote in the Bible, you are a) lying or b) inferring that there exists a truth that doesn't come from the Bible.

MitzaLizalor 05-06-2014 01:58 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by this_one (Post 1086563)
Here are just a few of the many papers and articles available on the subject:
http://ftp.iza.org/dp2063.pdf

OK, I've checked that one now. It's something called a discussion paper.

Did anyone else notice:
Quote:

there is little hard evidence available about the effects of child maltreatment on crime, and there is criticism of the extent to which a “cycle of violence” has been substantiated in the literature (c.f. Widom, 1989a).
This gem was relegated to a footnore:
Quote:

Administrative data on maltreatment and criminality capture only a fraction of all abuses and criminal ehaviors because not all maltreatment or criminal activity are reported to or captured by government agencies. Administrative data sets often also contain only limited information on important mediating factors such as family and socio-economic background. Furthermore, families about whom there are official records may be those more likely to come to the attention of official agencies, and thus may be an unrepresentative sample of families in which child abuse occurs (Smith and Thornberry, 1995). Rebellon and Van Gundy (2005) underscore the fact that little previous research has employed nationally representative samples.
Confirmation bias here:
Quote:

While there are limitations of using large national data sets (primarily, the relative crudeness of the available measures of maltreatment), our work is a potentially important complement to small-scale studies that use more detailed measures. The key questions we address, including the identification of causal effects of maltreatment and potential differences by socio-economic status, are unlikely to be settled by research using small samples of children who are suspected of having been abused or who have already committed crimes.
This sentence made me investigate more thoroughly:
Quote:

We find remarkably large and robust effects of maltreatment on a range of different measures of criminal activity.
Oh, look:
Quote:

There has been surprisingly little discussion of an economic approach to the relationship between maltreatment and crime. Studies of the economics of crime suggest that many individuals engage in crime because they do not have good market alternatives (c.f. Freeman, 1999). Hence, if maltreatment reduces human capital accumulation, or otherwise impairs an individual’s ability to succeed in life, it may increase the risk that the individual engages in crime.
So, these "remarkably large and robust effects"
Where are they?
Well, there are a number of data included but no stats analysis at all. And that is not a criticism of the paper because it is not a statistical paper, it is a discussion paper and it identifies shortfalls in the available data and in the number and variety of discussions or analyses to date.

There is some tabulated information, little more than raw data, and perhaps a statistical function on a spreadsheet has been used to provide levels of significance, but how those were derived is not shown. Like, say if I press a button on my car and it goes and if someone asks me "how does your car work?" and I say "oh yeah, like you press this button and sit here and hold this and that's how it goes! Zooom!!" well, I haven't actually described how the thing works at all have I?

So if I selected a range of data and then selected a stats function from a drop down chart, that is not explaining (or even providing) statistics at all, either, it is?

In a discussion paper that is what I'd expect. There's nothing wrong with the paper. But it does not show what it was claimed to show.

Well, I think that's enough time on this.

Attila's Wife 05-06-2014 02:14 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Thanks for that, Sister Mitza.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitzaLizalor (Post 1086589)
Well, I think that's enough time on this.

Indeed. Just for the record, the second link leads to a brief digest article (not an academic paper) which cites only the first and is full of weasel words such as one potential explanation... and estimates suggest that...

The last link is a brief piece of sloppy, anecdotal journalism from 2003 in something called Red Orbit.

No need to waste any more of your precious time.

YiC
AW
:jesus:

Cranky Old Man 05-06-2014 02:22 PM

Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by this_one (Post 1086572)
From the same paper:
Quote:

We find that maltreatment approximately doubles the probability of engaging in many types of crime.

Your problem is that you are deliberately misrepresenting the facts. Maltreatment is ignoring your child and allowing them to do whatever they want. That leads to more crime and that is what I and the papers you quote completely agree on. Refusing to properly punish a child is the maltreatment here.


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