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-   -   Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36) (https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=62847)

Christie 09-13-2014 06:59 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Basilissa (Post 1110281)
And how do you know what is God all about, if you have nothing to use as evidence? I mean, if you throw the Bible out of the window, what other source of knowledge do you have about God?



In other words: you think that God exists, but He doesn't care.

Following that "logic," if He doesn't care, then why do you care?



Why do you want to find your way to Him, if you think that He is some kind of a dick who doesn't give a s***t (your words, not mine) about anything?


Don't you get it? You need NO material evidence to feel there is a God out there. God itself isn't a material thing. I didn't say He doesn't care, I only said He gave us free will so if some sort of drunk people want to write such thing as a "holy bible" then He won't do anything about it. He is waiting for us to find a right way while respecting our MORALS. And if your morals guide you to impregnate your daughter then I'm sorry, but you have a serious mental illness.

Basilissa 09-13-2014 07:02 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1110285)
Don't you get it? You need NO material evidence to feel there is a God out there. God itself isn't a material thing.

How do you know that, if you reject the only source of our knowledge about God?

Quote:

I didn't say He doesn't care, I only said He gave us free will
How do you know that, if you reject the only source of our knowledge about God?

Quote:

so if some sort of drunk people want to write such thing as a "holy bible" then He won't do anything about it. He is waiting for us to find a right way while respecting our MORALS.
How do you know that, if you reject the only source of our knowledge about God?

Quote:

And if your morals guide you to impregnate your daughter then I'm sorry, but you have a serious mental illness.
No, we just follow the only source of God's will that exists on this earth:

:kjv1611-read:

Christie 09-13-2014 07:32 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Basilissa (Post 1110286)
How do you know that, if you reject the only source of our knowledge about God?

The thing you name "source of our knowledge about God" was written by ordinary people who thought their will is also God's. The only material evidence that proves God's existence is the universe He created. I don't need any book written by sick people with too much imagination.

Basilissa 09-13-2014 07:43 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1110291)
The thing you name "source of our knowledge about God" was written by ordinary people who thought their will is also God's. The only material evidence that proves God's existence is the universe He created. I don't need any book written by sick people with too much imagination.

So, how do you know that the world was created? Scientists (people who, like you, reject the Holy Bible) claim to have evidence that the world was born in an explosion, and that it has been expanding and changing (on its own, without Divibe intervention) ever since. (Something about helium burning up into other elements, I don't really pay much attention to that crap. Every time something doesn't add up in their calculations, they just add or substract some undetectable cold dark matter). The same scientists will tell you that they have evidence for evolution of species which occurred over millions of years, again without any Divine intervention.

What I'm trying to say is: if you reject the only source of our knowledge about God (the Holy Bible); and you also reject the only other alternative (science, evolution), then where the heck do you get your ideas from? Has it ever crossed your mind, that maybe you are wrong, and people who have actual evidence (that is, the Holy Bible) might be right?

I will keep praying for you. You do believe in God, and that is a good start. :thumbsup:

Christie 09-13-2014 07:54 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
I believe in evolution. I also believe in the theories of the Universe being created by an explosion.

I don't think all these happened by themselves, though. I believe there is a spiritual force strong enough to do all these, and this is named 'God'. I believe that nothing happened against His will. He created everything as an explosion. He created people by evolution, through time, so we will be related with all this world has to offer.

Basilissa 09-13-2014 08:03 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1110297)
I believe in evolution. I also believe in the theories of the Universe being created by an explosion.

I don't think all these happened by themselves, though. I believe there is a spiritual force strong enough to do all these, and this is named 'God'. I believe that nothing happened against His will. He created everything as an explosion. He created people by evolution, through time, so we will be related with all this world has to offer.

Oh, so in your belief God is omnipotent, just kinda... slow: ca. 10 billions of years to create earth, another 4 billions of years to make Earth habitable for a human being, and another 5 millions of years to make the actual human being through series of trials, errors, and evolutionary dead ends. :lol:

Then, once the people are finally around, God doesn't care about them, doesn't give them any rules to be followed, just lets them kill and rape and exploit each other as they please.

Remind me again, why do you want to believe in and worship such a cruel God?

Repent before it's too late, sweetie!

:kjv1611-read:

Joanna Lytton-Vasey 09-13-2014 08:18 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1110297)
I believe in evolution. I also believe in the theories of the Universe being created by an explosion.

I don't think all these happened by themselves, though. I believe there is a spiritual force strong enough to do all these, and this is named 'God'. I believe that nothing happened against His will. He created everything as an explosion. He created people by evolution, through time, so we will be related with all this world has to offer.

Have I got this right? You believe in some crazy heathen god who had the power to do anything, but instead of going down the smart, efficient route - like the one True God - instead actually CHOSE to take millions or billions or squillions or however many years your crazy sect thinks?

Think about it. Either your beliefs are not rational or your deity is insane.

Yours in Faith,
Joanna

Witch Hammer 09-13-2014 08:23 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1110297)
I believe in evolution. I also believe in the theories of the Universe being created by an explosion.

I don't think all these happened by themselves, though. I believe there is a spiritual force strong enough to do all these, and this is named 'God'. I believe that nothing happened against His will. He created everything as an explosion. He created people by evolution, through time, so we will be related with all this world has to offer.

You are a puppet dancing at the end of satan's string, witch! You only think that "common sense" or so-called "rational thought" is your motivational factor in rejecting the Infant Christ, when really it is the devil himself goading you away from The Light™ with his pitchfork! Stop living in ignorance and come join the worship!

Christie 09-13-2014 09:00 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Basilissa (Post 1110300)
Oh, so in your belief God is omnipotent, just kinda... slow: ca. 10 billions of years to create earth, another 4 billions of years to make Earth habitable for a human being, and another 5 millions of years to make the actual human being through series of trials, errors, and evolutionary dead ends. :lol:

:kjv1611-read:

In human time, yes, but God isn't human. God has no time to relate to.
We have our own morals to follow, He put them into us for a reason. You don't need a book to tell you what to do, especially when it says raping your daughter is perfectly fine (impregnating her or not, RAPE means you have sex with someone who doesn't want to, so you're raping her anyway).

Following your morals, you know that it's wrong to kill people, it's wrong to rape someone and so many other things. You need no other rules but your good feelings to follow. I don't think it's cruel.

Basilissa 09-13-2014 09:13 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1110312)
In human time, yes, but God isn't human. God has no time to relate to.
We have our own morals to follow, He put them into us for a reason.

The problem with your reasoning is, that there is not such a thing like a single/universal morals set. Each culture is different. Even things that we think to be deeply ingrained in our human nature, actually aren't - even things like incest (especially between siblings) have been common at one point in time or another in different parts of the world.

When you think about morals that "God put in us to follow," you actually think about your own cultural values which you were socialized to treat as "natural.*" Newsflash, honey - they aren't, which is exactly why we need the Holy Bible to guide us.

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You don't need a book to tell you what to do, especially when it says raping your daughter is perfectly fine (impregnating her or not, RAPE means you have sex with someone who doesn't want to, so you're raping her anyway).
Google "cultural relativism" when you have some time, honey.

Everything depends on context. For example: one group of Muslims beheads a single guy, and all Americans want to go and bomb the whole region. Another group of Muslims beheads eight people every month, and we think they are our best of friends and would never ever consider any type of military action against them.

Do you see the difference?
Do you see your own hypocrisy?

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Following your morals, you know that it's wrong to kill people, it's wrong to rape someone and so many other things. You need no other rules but your good feelings to follow. I don't think it's cruel.
What about psychopaths/sociopaths? Why don't you ask one of them about their God-given morals, and what is a "good feeling to follow" for them! :rofl:

___________
* This type of assumption is what ethographers call being extremely ethnocentric.

Cranky Old Man 09-13-2014 09:37 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1110285)
if some sort of drunk people want to write such thing as a "holy bible" then He won't do anything about it

Why not? Do you think God prefers us to be misled by drunk people over knowing the truth?

Mary Etheldreda 09-13-2014 10:52 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1110297)
I believe in evolution. I also believe in the theories of the Universe being created by an explosion.

I don't think all these happened by themselves, though. I believe there is a spiritual force strong enough to do all these, and this is named 'God'. I believe that nothing happened against His will. He created everything as an explosion. He created people by evolution, through time, so we will be related with all this world has to offer.

Have you ever thought this through, dear? This would make your 'God' a cruel, psychopathic tyrant. Think about it. The process of evolution, a process by which minute genetic mutations randomly occur, sometimes aids, sometimes hinders, sometimes makes no discernible difference at all for an individual, much less an entire species. Because one species evolves in relation to its environment, predators have evolved to be good predators, killing their prey in brutal scenes of bloody triumph, the rewards of a good hunt to be the live evisceration and consumption of an otherwise peaceful animal. Because one species evolves in relation to its environment, prey have evolved to escape, if not completely avoid detection, of the beast that must eat lest it die that day or the next. An unsuccessful hunt weakens the animal, rendering it more vulnerable to other prey, inside or outside its own community. If you've ever felt low blood sugar, imagine having to hunt like that, knowing that if the sun sets the next day without success, you will be killed like the prey whose scent makes your salivary glands quiver in anticipation.

This doesn't take into account the kind of suffering that comes from infection, a simple sliver causing a staff infection that would swiftly wipe out the life of a child. It doesn't take into account the kind of suffering that comes from childbirth, the loss of blood and oxygen that naturally kills both mother and child because the birth canal is not naturally designed to reliably accommodate the size of the fetus' skull. It doesn't take into account the suffering that comes from imprisonment from humans, who are prone to paranoia and tribal thinking, the kind of thinking that identifies an enemy in seemingly irrational cues like race, religion, economic or social policy.

The overwhelmingly majority of conscious, sentient beings do not die peacefully in their beds, surrounded by loved ones, pampered and soothed in loving compassion. And this, according to you, is how your 'God' would intend it. This is the 'God' you worship. This is the 'God' you love and honor and hold in highest regard. This 'God' is disgusting. This 'God' is horrifying. This 'God' is capricious and sociopathic and would be judged to be villainous and unworthy of the tiniest piece of affection if he were any other character, one allowed to be judged fairly and intelligently. This is a 'God' who could have designed a morally positive creation, but instead opted for one that is inherently filled with fear and pain, and watches from afar without concern. Your 'God' is a character I would spit on if he were real and I had to the opportunity to do so.

The Real God, the God revealed in the Holy Bible however, is a loving, merciful God (1 John 4:8). The Real God created a world in Perfect Glory to reveal His Glory (Philippians 2:9-11). The Real God allows freedom of will so that people can choose to Glorify Him or not (Mark 8:34). The Real God sent His Only Begotten Son to pay the price of Sin so that after this world of suffering, the world poisoned by Sin, the genuine lover of the Real God will be rewarded for ever and ever (Romans 4:25). Amen.

Christie 09-26-2014 08:58 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cranky Old Man (Post 1110327)
Why not? Do you think God prefers us to be misled by drunk people over knowing the truth?

No. Of course He would like us to know the truth, but He wants us to discover our own way to Him. The Bible you believe in was wrote by people, just like there are many authors out there writing books. It's not His fault you believe more in a book than you believe in the actual God .

Christie 09-26-2014 09:35 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mary Etheldreda (Post 1110339)
Have you ever thought this through, dear? This would make your 'God' a cruel, psychopathic tyrant. Think about it. The process of evolution, a process by which minute genetic mutations randomly occur, sometimes aids, sometimes hinders, sometimes makes no discernible difference at all for an individual, much less an entire species. Because one species evolves in relation to its environment, predators have evolved to be good predators, killing their prey in brutal scenes of bloody triumph, the rewards of a good hunt to be the live evisceration and consumption of an otherwise peaceful animal. Because one species evolves in relation to its environment, prey have evolved to escape, if not completely avoid detection, of the beast that must eat lest it die that day or the next. An unsuccessful hunt weakens the animal, rendering it more vulnerable to other prey, inside or outside its own community. If you've ever felt low blood sugar, imagine having to hunt like that, knowing that if the sun sets the next day without success, you will be killed like the prey whose scent makes your salivary glands quiver in anticipation.

This doesn't take into account the kind of suffering that comes from infection, a simple sliver causing a staff infection that would swiftly wipe out the life of a child. It doesn't take into account the kind of suffering that comes from childbirth, the loss of blood and oxygen that naturally kills both mother and child because the birth canal is not naturally designed to reliably accommodate the size of the fetus' skull. It doesn't take into account the suffering that comes from imprisonment from humans, who are prone to paranoia and tribal thinking, the kind of thinking that identifies an enemy in seemingly irrational cues like race, religion, economic or social policy.

The overwhelmingly majority of conscious, sentient beings do not die peacefully in their beds, surrounded by loved ones, pampered and soothed in loving compassion. And this, according to you, is how your 'God' would intend it. This is the 'God' you worship. This is the 'God' you love and honor and hold in highest regard. This 'God' is disgusting. This 'God' is horrifying. This 'God' is capricious and sociopathic and would be judged to be villainous and unworthy of the tiniest piece of affection if he were any other character, one allowed to be judged fairly and intelligently. This is a 'God' who could have designed a morally positive creation, but instead opted for one that is inherently filled with fear and pain, and watches from afar without concern. Your 'God' is a character I would spit on if he were real and I had to the opportunity to do so.

The Real God, the God revealed in the Holy Bible however, is a loving, merciful God (1 John 4:8). The Real God created a world in Perfect Glory to reveal His Glory (Philippians 2:9-11). The Real God allows freedom of will so that people can choose to Glorify Him or not (Mark 8:34). The Real God sent His Only Begotten Son to pay the price of Sin so that after this world of suffering, the world poisoned by Sin, the genuine lover of the Real God will be rewarded for ever and ever (Romans 4:25). Amen.

Well, death would occur anyway. Death is painful anyway. BUT at least, I believe in a God who loves His creation. A God who doesn't think some of His creations are less useful than others. A God who forgives. A God who doesn't care if you're suicidal, homosexual, sick, "useless" to the others, 'cause He will love you anyway. He won't judge you if you mistake in life, but He will listen and forgive. Because you are His creation and because without bad, there wouldn't be good. A God who loves you, who created you through His very first creations so you'll be related to the outside world

You believe in a God who accepts "impregnating" your own daughter. Who says that it's okay to sell you wife or daughter .Who hates some of His creations just because they have mental problems they DIDN'T CHOSE TO HAVE ( I'm talking about suicidal / homosexual / sick people in general ). Maybe there is a reason why those people are this way. As I said before, without bad you wouldn't be able to see the good.

You are a woman. How come you agree to believe in a God who allows your daughter to be impregnated by her dad? You, as a mother, HOW would you feel? To know the child you grew in your tummy with so much care and love is now pregnant with her father? And much more, GOD ALLOWS THAT. Isn't that a cruel God?

Cranky Old Man 09-26-2014 10:15 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112121)
No. Of course He would like us to know the truth, but He wants us to discover our own way to Him.

So why does God allow people to be misled by the Bible? Do you think God stopped caring?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112126)
To know the child you grew in your tummy with so much care and love is now pregnant with her father? And much more, GOD ALLOWS THAT. Isn't that a cruel God?

So you think God lost control?

Pastor Ezekiel 09-27-2014 12:00 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112121)
No. Of course He would like us to know the truth, but He wants us to discover our own way to Him. The Bible you believe in was wrote by people, just like there are many authors out there writing books. It's not His fault you believe more in a book than you believe in the actual God .

So then Harry Potter and Winnie the Pooh are just as valid and meaningful as the Holy Bible? Really? :huh:

You would have us believe that Islam is just as good as Christianity. Christianity was founded by the virgin-born son of God, Jesus Christ. Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives, the last one of which was a nine-year-old girl. BIG DIFFERENCE, heathen!

God wrote the Bible, don't you doubt it for a second. Satan wants you to believe that mankind wrote the Bible, but it's not true. God Almighty, creator of the known universe, gave us the KJV Bible so that we would know His Holy word. Jesus Himself said that we are to obey EVERY WORD of the Holy Bible! :rtfm:

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Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5:18
Why are you even here? This is a Christian forum, did you know that? What part of UNSAVED NOT WELCOME did you not understand?

Christie 09-27-2014 11:50 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cranky Old Man (Post 1112130)
So why does God allow people to be misled by the Bible? Do you think God stopped caring?

So you think God lost control?

1. There are so many questions, if we think a bit: Why does God allow atheist people to exist? Why does God allow other religions to exist, if they are "misleading" the people? The truth is that it's you very own fault if you let yourself misled by a book. God gave the world free will, and look what they did with it. Of course He didn't stop caring. He is just waiting for each one of us to see His true nature, not the one that other people put down on a paper because they magically thought they know all the meanings of God and everything God represents.

2. He didn't lost control, He has control of everything. There is a reason why sometimes God leaves mistakes to be done in this world: Without them, some people would never learn their lessons. Without mistakes, there wouldn't be truth and justice. A God who allows acts of cruelty is obviously a cruel God. I honestly don't believe there is such thing as a cruel God.

Christie 09-28-2014 12:12 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel (Post 1112143)
So then Harry Potter and Winnie the Pooh are just as valid and meaningful as the Holy Bible? Really? :huh:

You would have us believe that Islam is just as good as Christianity. Christianity was founded by the virgin-born son of God, Jesus Christ. Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives, the last one of which was a nine-year-old girl. BIG DIFFERENCE, heathen!

God wrote the Bible, don't you doubt it for a second. Satan wants you to believe that mankind wrote the Bible, but it's not true. God Almighty, creator of the known universe, gave us the KJV Bible so that we would know His Holy word. Jesus Himself said that we are to obey EVERY WORD of the Holy Bible! :rtfm:



Why are you even here? This is a Christian forum, did you know that? What part of UNSAVED NOT WELCOME did you not understand?


At least, Harry Potter and Winnie the Pooh never pretended to be true stories as the Bible did. You are talking about a pedophile like it's something bad (which it really is ) , but you forgot your religion allows pedophilia too. Fathers impregnating their young daughters isn't pedophilia as well? Look, I'm so sick of religion, as you see it. Religion is supposed to guide you to the best qualities, to the best in life, but instead of doing that, all the religions are trying to manipulate people and make them do whatever they are told. They are teaching you that females are miserable and useless human beings, that there's no problem if you're daughter gets raped by an uninvited guest. Where is the respect? Where are the kind words? Where is the love your so called "PERFECT" God put into us? Where is the acceptance? Where is the parent - children love? No religion is completely pure, but all of them pretend to be right.

Are you sure your beloved Jesus said that? What's your proof? OOOH I forgot. Your proof is the Bible. So in the Bible someone wrote that Jesus said you HAVE to believe every word in the Bible. Maybe Jesus has never said that. It was just wrote in the Bible so it will make it more believable.

God left life on Earth, not a book. A book is created by people. It has no life. As I said, the only proof you have that God exists is the Earth you're standing on and the life around you. The book that appeared after is just something people created to manipulate people back then.

Cranky Old Man 09-28-2014 12:27 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112265)
1. There are so many questions, if we think a bit: Why does God allow atheist people to exist? Why does God allow other religions to exist, if they are "misleading" the people? The truth is that it's you very own fault if you let yourself misled by a book. God gave the world free will, and look what they did with it. Of course He didn't stop caring. He is just waiting for each one of us to see His true nature, not the one that other people put down on a paper because they magically thought they know all the meanings of God and everything God represents.

So according to you the Holy Bible is nonsense and the only way to figure out what God wants from us is to "guess" and to "feel" it!? Don't you see how weird this is? That God would allow a nonsensical Bible to exist and give us no clues whatsoever on what is the real truth!?

Quote:

2. He didn't lost control, He has control of everything. There is a reason why sometimes God leaves mistakes to be done in this world: Without them, some people would never learn their lessons. Without mistakes, there wouldn't be truth and justice. A God who allows acts of cruelty is obviously a cruel God. I honestly don't believe there is such thing as a cruel God.
So God created child rapists, murderers and Obama voters so we can learn from it? What exactly is the lesson a child that gets raped and then murdered learns?

Do you really NOT see how flawed your logic is? That IF God is so mighty and all powerful that He could create absolutely everything (which we know He is) that He will also be capable of creating a simple book!?

Dolores de Barriga 09-28-2014 02:14 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112265)
1. There are so many questions, if we think a bit: Why does God allow atheist people to exist? Why does God allow other religions to exist, if they are "misleading" the people? The truth is that it's you very own fault if you let yourself misled by a book.

Hello Christie. I find your confidence in your view of God fascinating. Have you ever thought about creating your own religion? Because thousands of people before you have thought that they had the exclusivity on the correct view of God. Have you ever though what makes you so special, that your view of God would be the correct one, in contrast to all other prophets/founders of religions?

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God gave the world free will, and look what they did with it. Of course He didn't stop caring.
May I use an analogy? If you see a father (let's call him "Father A"), who doesn't give his children any directions to what is right and what is wrong, just sits back and relaxes watching as one of his children enslaves, tortures, and kills a sibling, would you call this father "caring?"

Now if we compare Father A with another father (let's call him "Father B"), who gives his children a specific set of directions of what is right and what is wrong, and who punishes the children who do not follow these directions, and rewards the children who do, would call this father "caring?"

News flash: the God you believe in is the first father. Personally, I would call him sadistic, not caring. The members of the Landover Baptist Church believe in God who is like the second father. You might think that some of His rules are harsh, but that's what caring fathers do - give their children clear rules to follow.

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He is just waiting for each one of us to see His true nature,
How do you know this, if you don't have a Scripture to follow? What makes you so special, how come you know what God wants, when millions of millions of people living since the beginning of humankind had millions of different ideas about the true nature of God?

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not the one that other people put down on a paper because they magically thought they know all the meanings of God and everything God represents.
So... are you admitting, that you have no idea what is God's true nature and what He really wants of us either?

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2. He didn't lost control, He has control of everything. There is a reason why sometimes God leaves mistakes to be done in this world: Without them, some people would never learn their lessons.
So you really need millions of people to be tortured, enslaved, raped, burnt at the stake, starved to death, etc, etc, for the sole reason of "some people" learning their lessons?

Interesting. I don't think I like your view of God. He seems like a psychopath. He definitely isn't a person I would like to meet walking alone through a dark alley. He might want me to learn a lesson, to never walk alone through a dark alley again.

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Without mistakes, there wouldn't be truth and justice.
Wait, I'm confused. When do you think there will be "truth and justice?" Because there hasn't been justice on earth since the advent of agriculture, and there hasn't been truth on earth, well, since the people first started talking. I mean, even if you are the poster child of white privilege, I hope that you can see that not everybody was born with a silver spoon.

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A God who allows acts of cruelty is obviously a cruel God. I honestly don't believe there is such thing as a cruel God.
But the God you have imagined is the most cruel of them all!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112266)
Look, I'm so sick of religion, as you see it. Religion is supposed to guide you to the best qualities, to the best in life, but instead of doing that, all the religions are trying to manipulate people and make them do whatever they are told.

Some scholars argue that this was the reason why religions were invented in the first place.

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They are teaching you that females are miserable and useless human beings, that there's no problem if you're daughter gets raped by an uninvited guest. Where is the respect? Where are the kind words? Where is the love your so called "PERFECT" God put into us? Where is the acceptance? Where is the parent - children love? No religion is completely pure, but all of them pretend to be right.
This is interesting. So you follow Plato's idealist view - somewhere out there there is an ideal religion, and all real religions are imperfect reflections of it. Based on what you said previously, somehow you have the exclusive access to the true religion, which allows you to see the true nature of God.

I'm not a psychologist, but I think you need to see one, urgently. I'm sure there are some pills which will be able to bring you back to reality.

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Are you sure your beloved Jesus said that? What's your proof? OOOH I forgot. Your proof is the Bible. So in the Bible someone wrote that Jesus said you HAVE to believe every word in the Bible. Maybe Jesus has never said that. It was just wrote in the Bible so it will make it more believable.
Whether you believe the entire account of Jesus' life or not, the three synoptic Gospels - Matthew, Luke, and Mark - agree pretty closely in relation to what Jesus said. Therefore, there is little doubt that there was a historical Jesus, even if the events of his actual biography might be a bit sketchy.

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God left life on Earth, not a book. A book is created by people. It has no life. As I said, the only proof you have that God exists is the Earth you're standing on and the life around you. The book that appeared after is just something people created to manipulate people back then.
No. If you reject the Bible and other sacred texts of other religions, the earth you walk on and the life you see is evidence of cold, cruel laws of evolution.

Jim C. Lombardo 09-28-2014 04:06 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
While I can cosy up to the thought of squirting one into my daughter's baby-maker. I have difficulty reconciling the notion of marrying her after and committing polygamy.

Christie 09-28-2014 09:48 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolores de Barriga (Post 1112280)
Hello Christie. I find your confidence in your view of God fascinating. Have you ever thought about creating your own religion? Because thousands of people before you have thought that they had the exclusivity on the correct view of God. Have you ever though what makes you so special, that your view of God would be the correct one, in contrast to all other prophets/founders of religions?



May I use an analogy? If you see a father (let's call him "Father A"), who doesn't give his children any directions to what is right and what is wrong, just sits back and relaxes watching as one of his children enslaves, tortures, and kills a sibling, would you call this father "caring?"

Now if we compare Father A with another father (let's call him "Father B"), who gives his children a specific set of directions of what is right and what is wrong, and who punishes the children who do not follow these directions, and rewards the children who do, would call this father "caring?"

News flash: the God you believe in is the first father. Personally, I would call him sadistic, not caring. The members of the Landover Baptist Church believe in God who is like the second father. You might think that some of His rules are harsh, but that's what caring fathers do - give their children clear rules to follow.



How do you know this, if you don't have a Scripture to follow? What makes you so special, how come you know what God wants, when millions of millions of people living since the beginning of humankind had millions of different ideas about the true nature of God?



So... are you admitting, that you have no idea what is God's true nature and what He really wants of us either?



So you really need millions of people to be tortured, enslaved, raped, burnt at the stake, starved to death, etc, etc, for the sole reason of "some people" learning their lessons?

Interesting. I don't think I like your view of God. He seems like a psychopath. He definitely isn't a person I would like to meet walking alone through a dark alley. He might want me to learn a lesson, to never walk alone through a dark alley again.



Wait, I'm confused. When do you think there will be "truth and justice?" Because there hasn't been justice on earth since the advent of agriculture, and there hasn't been truth on earth, well, since the people first started talking. I mean, even if you are the poster child of white privilege, I hope that you can see that not everybody was born with a silver spoon.



But the God you have imagined is the most cruel of them all!



Some scholars argue that this was the reason why religions were invented in the first place.



This is interesting. So you follow Plato's idealist view - somewhere out there there is an ideal religion, and all real religions are imperfect reflections of it. Based on what you said previously, somehow you have the exclusive access to the true religion, which allows you to see the true nature of God.

I'm not a psychologist, but I think you need to see one, urgently. I'm sure there are some pills which will be able to bring you back to reality.



Whether you believe the entire account of Jesus' life or not, the three synoptic Gospels - Matthew, Luke, and Mark - agree pretty closely in relation to what Jesus said. Therefore, there is little doubt that there was a historical Jesus, even if the events of his actual biography might be a bit sketchy.



No. If you reject the Bible and other sacred texts of other religions, the earth you walk on and the life you see is evidence of cold, cruel laws of evolution.

Let me be clear: All I'm writing here are MY beliefs. I don't pretend to know God in all it's senses. All you see here written by me is MY point of view. As you may have a view of God, I may have mine. But it there's something I'm sure of, is that the Bible is full of lies. Maybe at some point it has a bit of the truth, but the rest of it is just a lie made up because back then there was not so many sources of knowledge.

I find your analogy pretty interesting, but I feel something is missing. Father A is not a witness of torturing and killing only. He is also a witness to the good little things people do to help the others by THEMSELVES. No one told them to be kind, there are people who never read the Bible, but are ready to sacrifice their time to help the others. He is a witness of people learning to accept the other people, no matter if they're black, white, jewish, because sinners or not, we are ALL his creation and we are ALL related as siblings in His eyes. Father A also watches animals getting saved by people everyday, and animals saving people also. He is not standing there, entertaining the torture and kill some of us have to endure.

Now, talking about Father B... I have to say that I'd rather have a father who gives me no directions than giving me the cruelest ones. And much more, if I don't respect His cruel rules, I'm gong to burn in Hell for eternity. At least, someone who is murdered in the case of Father A will have his or her soul into God's arms and will never have to suffer again. In the case of Father B though, if you don't respect things like letting your daughter be raped & impregnating her by yourself, you're not a respectable human being and do not deserve a place in Heaven. Really, Father B is a really gruesome guy in my opinion.

I think I answered some of your questions while discussing the analogy, if you read carefully you'll find them.

I don't think the God I know is the cruelest of all. A God who accepts all His children, no matter what religion / orientation / color etc etc is not cruel. A God who tells you you're gonna burn in Hell for not 'killing' the other people that aren't like you is a cruel God.

You see evolution as a cold and damned thing. I see evolution as a way of God to relate us to His other creations, to make connections between us and the outside world.

Cranky Old Man 09-28-2014 10:10 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112357)
But it there's something I'm sure of, is that the Bible is full of lies.

If this is true, then why do you think God allows this?

Quote:

Father A is not a witness of torturing and killing only. He is also a witness to the good little things people do to help the others by THEMSELVES. No one told them to be kind, there are people who never read the Bible, but are ready to sacrifice their time to help the others.
What you are saying here is that a father who does nothing (which is father A) might get lucky and have a decent child after all. That doesn't make him a good parent. Even you must be capable of figuring that out. Parenting is something that requires effort. Doing nothing is not proper parenting.

Dolores de Barriga 09-29-2014 02:57 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112357)
Let me be clear: All I'm writing here are MY beliefs. I don't pretend to know God in all it's senses. All you see here written by me is MY point of view.

Unfortunately, your point of view has no evidence to support it. The God you believe in is not the God of the Bible; he is not the God of any sacred text of any religion that I'm aware of. Therefore, your God is merely a product of your imagination. Like an imaginary friend that you make up when you feel bullied by other kids in school.

Quote:

As you may have a view of God, I may have mine.
I have read enough about different religions to respect different views; unfortunately, these same studies have weakened my own faith, but that is something I hope to repair. However, the difference between you and, let's say, the !Kung people of the Kalahari desert, is that they have an oral tradition which reasserts them that their view of the supernatural is correct. You, on the other side, have nothing: no written text, no oral tradition.

Quote:

But it there's something I'm sure of, is that the Bible is full of lies.
Your intuition may or may not be correct, but I would need you to provide some actual evidence to support that claim. I mean, you wouldn't want me to follow what you say just because you say it is correct, right? :)

Quote:

Maybe at some point it has a bit of the truth, but the rest of it is just a lie made up because back then there was not so many sources of knowledge.
I think you underestimate ancient peoples. They had the same sources of knowledge as we have today: empirical experimentation. The scientific method was known basically since people first started using herbs for medicines.

Quote:

I find your analogy pretty interesting, but I feel something is missing. Father A is not a witness of torturing and killing only. He is also a witness to the good little things people do to help the others by THEMSELVES. No one told them to be kind, there are people who never read the Bible, but are ready to sacrifice their time to help the others.
The key word here is "little." I guess it must be easy to believe in a benevolent God as you do, when you spend your life in your happy gated community, where police doesn't shoot every black man because there are no black people, and where homeless people are not allowed to enter, and where you benefit from slavery and not suffer from it. Unfortunately, only a tiny percentage of humanity lives that luxurious life. Most people suffer in life, and see the world as it is: an ugly, unjust, cruel place. In this world - the cruel, unjust world in which 99% of humanity live - God of the Bible makes much more sense than the nice God that you imagine.

Quote:

He is a witness of people learning to accept the other people, no matter if they're black, white, jewish, because sinners or not, we are ALL his creation and we are ALL related as siblings in His eyes.
Well, maybe in your circles having "a black friend" is a great accomplishment for humanity, but actually, the world as a whole is not more just than it was during the Second World War. It is not more just than it was during the slave trade to the Americas. It is not more just than it was during the Black Plague. It is definitely less just than it was before the emergence of sedentary stratified societies.

Quote:

Father A also watches animals getting saved by people everyday,
And countless others being tortured by people everyday. Have you ever seen an ASPCA commercial?

Quote:

and animals saving people also.
He also created sharks, grizzly bears, and countless other predators that see humans as lunch.

Quote:

He is not standing there, entertaining the torture and kill some of us have to endure.
If He doesn't like it, then why does He allow it? And correction: it is not "some of us" but "a big chunk of humanity." Again, please try to understand that not all people on this earth were born with a silver spoon. Most of us actually have to work in order to survive. If you are unfamiliar with the verb "to work," you can check in a dictionary.

Quote:

Now, talking about Father B... I have to say that I'd rather have a father who gives me no directions than giving me the cruelest ones. And much more, if I don't respect His cruel rules, I'm gong to burn in Hell for eternity. At least, someone who is murdered in the case of Father A will have his or her soul into God's arms and will never have to suffer again.
Oh, come on, are you actually trying to shovel that crap into my mouth, thinking that you will convince me that it is caviar?

Please try to be logical: since your God doesn't give any rules to play the game of life, that means that there is no hell or heaven. No reward, no punishment. Otherwise, your God would be really unjust: I mean, can you imagine being eternally punished for loosing in a game which rules you don't know?

Quote:

In the case of Father B though, if you don't respect things like letting your daughter be raped & impregnating her by yourself, you're not a respectable human being and do not deserve a place in Heaven. Really, Father B is a really gruesome guy in my opinion.
Well, He is less unjust than a God who allows people to play a game of life without giving us the rules, and then punishing those who fail to follow these rules.

Quote:

I think I answered some of your questions while discussing the analogy, if you read carefully you'll find them.
Thank you for your kindness. I hope, though, that my answers will allow you to look beyond your sheltered, priviledged life, and see the world as it really is.

Quote:

I don't think the God I know is the cruelest of all. A God who accepts all His children,
Including serial killers? :wacko:

Quote:

no matter what religion /
Even though most religions say that all the others are wrong?

Quote:

orientation /
Even though most of the world's dominant religions see only one normal orientation, and define all others as deviant?

Quote:

color
Even though most of the religions of the world have been used to justify discrimination and exploitation?

Quote:

etc etc is not cruel. A God who tells you you're gonna burn in Hell for not 'killing' the other people that aren't like you is a cruel God.
And God who allows people to burn other people alive isn't a cruel God?

Quote:

You see evolution as a cold and damned thing. I see evolution as a way of God to relate us to His other creations, to make connections between us and the outside world.
Please learn what evolution means before you make statements about evolution. Major mechanisms of evolution include natural selection and mutation. The first is commonly known as "survival of the fittest," and while it is an oversimplification, it does include the notion that the weak ones die off early. Mutation, on the other hand, is a completely random process, in which most mutations are useless, a small percentage is actually useful for something, and an equally small percentage causes the individual to get very sick and die early. The worst mutants die off in the first week after conception - yes, women miscarry much more often than they realize.

Why God would use such a slow, cruel and inefficient - from an all-powerful being's point of view - way of creating life, is beyond the scope of my understanding.

Basilissa 09-29-2014 04:36 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112357)
I don't think the God I know is the cruelest of all. A God who accepts all His children, no matter what religion / orientation / color etc etc is not cruel. A God who tells you you're gonna burn in Hell for not 'killing' the other people that aren't like you is a cruel God.

If your God is tolerant towards all religions, why aren't you tolerant towards our beliefs?

Jim Farmer 09-29-2014 06:07 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112357)
Let me be clear: All I'm writing here are MY beliefs. I don't pretend to know God in all it's senses. All you see here written by me is MY point of view. As you may have a view of God, I may have mine. But it there's something I'm sure of, is that the Bible is full of lies. Maybe at some point it has a bit of the truth, but the rest of it is just a lie made up because back then there was not so many sources of knowledge.

So if you don't believe the word of the Bible, how can you justify your belief in God - any version of God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112357)
I don't think the God I know is the cruelest of all. A God who accepts all His children, no matter what religion / orientation / color etc etc is not cruel. A God who tells you you're gonna burn in Hell for not 'killing' the other people that aren't like you is a cruel God.

You clearly don't know God at all. The Bible is the word of God. Any other version of God is purely a figment of your imagination. Wake up girl! You either believe in God and His word, or you are an atheist bound to spend eternity in Hell. There is no half way. God doesn't accept half way. Which way are you going to turn?

Redeemed Papist 09-29-2014 06:13 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christie (Post 1112357)
Let me be clear: All I'm writing here are MY beliefs. I don't pretend to know God in all it's senses. All you see here written by me is MY point of view.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Proverbs 28:25,26
25He that is of a proud heart stirreth up strife: but he that putteth his trust in the LORD shall be made fat.

26He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
And you're going to burn in Hell for doing that.

1John3:8 06-20-2015 05:45 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Lot existed before the Law of Moses manifested on Earth and before Christ manifested on Earth, so Christ will forever be the example we Judeo-Christians strive to be like. The word Christian means "little Christ," "Christ one," and "like-Christ." Christ means Messiah which means Anointed One. Luke 13:24 uses the Greek word "agonizomai." This word means agonize, work hard, and/or strive. The Hebrew word "nefesh (nephesh)" means animal soul found in the blood under the flesh (basar) produced by the bones. Human beings are part animal and part spiritual. The Law of God tells us the standard of perfection. 613 mitzvot (laws) exist in Judaism. God Christ Jesus died on the tree at Calvary and shed blood for all so that we can live for eternity. This perfect shed blood of the lamb who was slain fulfilled Holy God's perfect desire for judgment. Holy God's resurrection of God Christ Jesus fulfilled Holy God's desire for mercy. Now in the New Testament era our desire needs to be all about Jesus our Way, Truth and Life (John 14:6)! My Christian brother, let us please leave pre-Mosaic facts alone and move forward with TRUTH. In no way let us accuse each other of anything for only Jesus the Lord of the Living and the dead can judge us (Matthew 12:36-37; Romans 14:4-9), and the accuser of the brethren is to be cast down (Revelation 12:10). I feel as if we need to be more concerned with the hybrid human agenda GOOGLE advocates and the many videos on transhumanist nanotechnoloy found all over YOUTUBE. The thoughts and desires of our heart (Psalm 37:4; Proverbs 23:7) NEED to be on destroying the works of SATAN (1 John 3:8)! Amen. The spiritual programming tactics in this link http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/so...ol2/part10.htm are carnal weapons of SATAN (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)! I think the Hasidic Ashkenazi Jews and the Rothschilds along with the Builderbergs will seek to create modern golems and soulless "hybrid" humans for evil spirits conjured out of HELL to possess through kabbalah mind-control http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...m/mobile/false. It NEEDS to be stopped. Amen.

Nobar King 06-20-2015 06:16 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

hybrid human agenda GOOGLE advocates and the many videos on transhumanist nanotechnoloy found all over YOUTUBE
I have seen those videos and I worry too

YoungSubmissive 10-03-2017 02:09 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cranky Old Man (Post 727856)
Obama worshipers have been busy for years and years now, destroying our once proud American Christian family values. One of the unfounded myths they have been spreading is that you are not allowed to impregnate your own daughter.

This is of course utter nonsense. The Holy Bible is very clear about impregnating your own daughter being fully allowed!

Lot was a just and righteous man. (2nd Peter 2:7-8) He was the only man that God saved from the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Genesis 19:15) So clearly Lot is the kind of man we should all aspire to be. In Genesis 19:32-36 we can read that Lot impregnated both his virgin daughters. The Bible raises no objections against this. Both had male children who were identified as progenitors of the Moab and Ammon people.

Not all forms of "incest", as hippies like to call it, are allowed though. A mother having sex with her son is, of course, punishable by death (Leviticus 20:11). Just the thought of this is enough to make me puke! :icon8: Having sex with your daughter in law is not allowed either (Leviticus 20:12) as is having sex with both a mother and her daughter (Leviticus 20:14). But clearly there are no objections whatsoever to having sex with your own daughter. Why else, in a perfect Bible, would God give a long list of people forbidden to have sex with and exclude daughters!

There are some mistranslated versions of the Bible where Leviticus 18:6 is twisted into forbidding sex with relatives. Effectively forbidding you to impregnate even your own wife. Fortunately the only true version of God's word, the King James 1611, has no such objections. It just mentions you should not undress your daughter, simply a matter of commanding her to undress herself instead.

is the cranky old man right?

Cranky Old Man 10-03-2017 02:14 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoungSubmissive (Post 1221114)
is the cranky old man right?

Yes.

YoungSubmissive 10-03-2017 02:24 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cranky Old Man (Post 1221116)
Yes.

I'm sorry for asking, I should have assumed. I'm new here, new to this religion

Jim C. Lombardo 10-03-2017 07:56 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YoungSubmissive (Post 1221117)
I'm sorry for asking, I should have assumed. I'm new here, new to this religion


Don't worry young Padawan, we will break into you in no time flat. ;)

Dutchsmartie 07-29-2019 12:46 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Idiot

Dana723 07-29-2019 03:11 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchsmartie (Post 1255683)
Idiot

Do you have Biblical proof to back up that claim?

Dutchsmartie 07-29-2019 03:28 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dana723 (Post 1255700)
Do you have Biblical proof to back up that claim?

Bible doesn't promote it

James Hutchins 07-31-2019 02:25 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
I am just a simple country True Christian™. If, by the Grace of God©, a daughter of mine is with child, it means I will be a grandfather. If a grand-daughter has a child, I am a Great Grandfather. Gifts from Jesus and proof of my unquestioning faith in Him.

I am taken aback and somewhat offended that people do not simply celebrate the Glory Of Life®.

Way too much questioning going on about where man came from (God, if anyone wants to know). If people would simply stop all this silly speculation and read the KJV Holy Bible, they would discover all questions deserving of an answer have been answered and are right there in black in white.

mrgrtt123 08-02-2019 05:15 AM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
That is crazy and absolutely illegal. :rebuke:

James Hutchins 08-02-2019 03:06 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrgrtt123 (Post 1255881)
That is crazy and absolutely illegal. :rebuke:

Did you eat shellfish?

WWJDnow 03-11-2021 09:00 PM

Re: Impregnating your own daughter is NOT rape! (Genesis 19:32-36)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cranky Old Man (Post 727856)
Having sex with your daughter in law is not allowed either (Leviticus 20:12) as is having sex with both a mother and her daughter (Leviticus 20:14).

I have often wondered whether Leviticus 20:14 applies if you have sex with the mother and daughter separately or whether it has to be at the same time. This is very important, because the punishment is burning everyone to death.

And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you. Leviticus 20:14

We could use more Biblical justice like this to weed out the wickedness among us today.


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