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-   -   What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?? (https://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=16536)

Bob4God 01-20-2010 08:48 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455261)
I did address the rest of your post, by stating that I put a 23 instead of a 22, and if you go back to the HEBREW, you will find the situation mention in the verses beyond what I quoted are a completely different situation :-). I refuse to be badgered anymore, but I will lurk more.

No, you addressed the easy part.

If you feel that you can prove us wrong, please do so. Just keep in mind that you're not just going against us, you're going against GOD.

Rev. Aaron 01-20-2010 08:50 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
oh no :-) i am going against flesh and blood, and people who have their interpretation of God's word....if I was going against God, I would already be dead

InvisiblePinkUnicorn 01-20-2010 08:59 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455261)
I did address the rest of your post, by stating that I put a 23 instead of a 22, and if you go back to the HEBREW, you will find the situation mention in the verses beyond what I quoted are a completely different situation :-). I refuse to be badgered anymore, but I will lurk more.

As everyone here knows, I am an atheist. I wasn't going to comment until I saw that you, a professed "normal" Christian are being VERY disingenuous here. The MAIN reason I came to LBC to talk is that they are very up front about their faith. YOU, however, are making assertions that seem to counter what the plan text of your Holy Book says and NOT providing any documentation to back up your assertions. For example, here are various translations of the scripture in quesiton:


Quote:

28`When a man findeth a damsel, a virgin who is not betrothed, and hath caught her, and lain with her, and they have been found,
29then hath the man who is lying with her given to the father of the damsel fifty silverlings, and to him she is for a wife; because that he hath humbled her, he is not able to send her away all his days.

Young's Litteral
Quote:


28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [a] He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

NIV
Quote:

28"(A)If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered,
29then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.

NASB
Quote:

28-29 When a man comes upon a virgin who has never been engaged and grabs and rapes her and they are found out, the man who raped her has to give her father fifty pieces of silver. He has to marry her because he took advantage of her. And he can never divorce her.

The Message


Quote:

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

King James
Quote:

28 If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged to be married and forces her to have sexual relations with him and people find out about it,29 the man must pay the girl's father about one and one-fourth pounds of silver. He must also marry the girl, because he has dishonored her, and he may never divorce her for as long as he lives.

New Century
Quote:

28 Suppose a man happens to see a virgin who hasn't promised to marry another man. And the man who happens to see her rapes her. But someone discovers them. 29 Then the man must weigh out 20 ounces of silver. He must give it to the woman's father. The man must marry the woman, because he raped her. And he can never divorce her as long as he lives.

NIRV
Now, ignoring the absurdity that there are so many different translations of the supposed word of God, you MUST acknowledge that ALL of these say that if a man uses force to have sex with an unmarried virgin, he must marry her. Even YOUNG'S LITERAL says so and it is as close to original Hebrew as you can get! Yet YOU claim that they are ALL wrong. Please produce documentation. If you don't, we will all know what a "normal" Christian is all about: Lying about what his Holy Book says and then running away to hide.

Jacob the Angry Liar 01-20-2010 09:01 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455185)
I am so glad that you as individuals take the verse in Deuteronomy completely out of context. Is it not apparent in English that it is meaning consentual sex? NOT RAPE, A.K.A. FORCED SEX.

If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;
Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)

It says LAY HOLD. To lay hold of is to grab, grasp or seize. This implies that it is forced. This case presented in Deuteronomy is non-consensual sex. The Bible takes both consensual and non-consensual sex into considerations, but the former is in a different passage:

And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife (Exodus 22:16)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455185)

I find the answer to this question, also in

Deuteronomy, 23:25-27

25But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:
27For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

This is what happens if the woman is married. If she is not married, then she must marry the rapist as per Deut 22:28-29

James Hutchins 01-20-2010 09:07 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455261)
Just as a general reply...I am NOT unsaved trash...I worked hard for my ordination and spent years in ministry school.


I did address the rest of your post, by stating that I put a 23 instead of a 22, and if you go back to the HEBREW, you will find the situation mention in the verses beyond what I quoted are a completely different situation :-). I refuse to be badgered anymore, but I will lurk more.


I would like to thank Mr. Hutchins for giving me an infraction...if I knew how to reply to your message I would do it privately, but since I cannot, I will basically tell you this.....the truth can sometimes burn...especially those that involve themselves in a cult :-)

You have failed miserably by not following the rules of the forum. We have rules, just as God does. Failure to follow gets you banned.
I mentioned you needed to follow the rules. You blatantly ignored me.
I infracted you, you talked back. My finger is hovering over the button at this very moment.:angry:
The Baptist religion is no cult. It upsets you that we actually follow the entire Bible, as it was written, as God intended.:innocent:

James Hutchins 01-20-2010 09:10 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455268)
oh no :-) i am going against flesh and blood, and people who have their interpretation of God's word....if I was going against God, I would already be dead

We do not interpret the Bible, we follow it, as it was written. If you really knew anything about God, he does not strike you down the moment you wrong him. He waits until you least expect it or he hurts someone you love to make the guilt of your evil doings burn long until death at which time He thrusts you into the fires of Hell to burn in excruciating pain for all of eternity, pal. :sinner:

Bob4God 01-20-2010 09:20 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455261)
and if you go back to the HEBREW, you will find the situation mention in the verses beyond what I quoted are a completely different situation :-).

So are you saying the truth and meaning of GOD's divine word has been filtered or lost through the ages?

That's quite a ludicrous and blasphemous thing for a Christian to suggest.

Rev. Aaron 01-20-2010 09:30 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Oh no...it is not ludicrous at all :-) the English language is so much less complex than Hebrew, I am fairly certain that you are of the same group of close minded fools that have managed to shove millions away from God's love. I am very certain the the English Bible is inaccurate (especially as seeing as how Greek has 3 separate words for love, with 3 separate meanings as an example :-) )

I will say the most closed minded and unacceptable Christians are in the Baptist denomination, I would much rather discuss religion with a Catholic, or a Pentecostal, than with a Baptist, it is all a bunch of what the preacher said stuff, and never doing any real research. If you wish to ban me, go ahead, but I will say that I have spoken truth today, and apologized for my mistakes.


You can say I will burn in hell, but I will be glad when the day of the sheep and goats comes, and I am with the sheep, and you are with the goats

Rev. Aaron 01-20-2010 09:33 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
I am going to a class...ill be back later....BYE!

A Follower 01-20-2010 09:35 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
I assume the word you think is mistranslated in not just the Lord's Holy Bible, but all other Bibles as well is תָּפַשׂ

But even in "complex" Hebrew it means to take something with the intention to use it. It is never used in a consensual way, the word is for when you are talking about using some sort of tool or in this case another object that does not have any say in how it will be used.

You know that by lying about God's Word you are condemning yourself to Hell, right?

And what is a Reverend doing in class? Are you a student and have you lied about yourself to try and give yourself more credibility (like most atheists here seem to do)? You shouldn't do that, especially not when you don't have the knowledge to keep the scam going for more than a few sentences.

InvisiblePinkUnicorn 01-20-2010 09:36 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455319)
Oh no...it is not ludicrous at all :-) the English language is so much less complex than Hebrew, I am fairly certain that you are of the same group of close minded fools that have managed to shove millions away from God's love. I am very certain the the English Bible is inaccurate (especially as seeing as how Greek has 3 separate words for love, with 3 separate meanings as an example :-) )

I will say the most closed minded and unacceptable Christians are in the Baptist denomination, I would much rather discuss religion with a Catholic, or a Pentecostal, than with a Baptist, it is all a bunch of what the preacher said stuff, and never doing any real research. If you wish to ban me, go ahead, but I will say that I have spoken truth today, and apologized for my mistakes.


You can say I will burn in hell, but I will be glad when the day of the sheep and goats comes, and I am with the sheep, and you are with the goats

Do you think that no one noticed how you did not reposnd to my post at all? I am not with these guys. As I said, I am an Atheist, but even I can see you are not being straight forward. Are ALL Christians like this?

Now please reply to my post. I am genuinely curious about this stuff.

Gabriel Reproba 01-20-2010 09:38 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455327)
I am going to a class...ill be back later....BYE!

How much do you want to bet that his "Class" lasts about four years?

A Follower 01-20-2010 09:55 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by InvisiblePinkUnicorn (Post 455334)
Do you think that no one noticed how you did not reposnd to my post at all? I am not with these guys. As I said, I am an Atheist, but even I can see you are not being straight forward. Are ALL Christians like this?

Certainly not. Only false Christians are like that. It comes with picking and choosing which parts of the Bible they believe in, there is no reasonable way of explaining why someone can disregard God's Word, so they lie about what the meaning of words and if that doesn't work they simply make up an excuse and flee :thumbdown:

If you are looking for logic, certainty and a direction for your life the only way is to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and start reading the King James 1611 Bible :thumbsup:

GOD=life 01-20-2010 10:12 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455319)
I will say the most closed minded and unacceptable Christians are in the Baptist denomination, I would much rather discuss religion with a Catholic, or a Pentecostal, than with a Baptist, ...

Similarly, one would much rather go into a boxing match with Kylie Minogue than with Mike Tyson.

The difference is that Catlicks and Penilecostals aren't Christians but cherry-pickers. They won't disagree on your stance that the Bible should be corrupted. You're really preaching to the choir with them. Baptists on the other hand are right and can back up any of their claims both by the Bible and by logic.

With other words: your arguments are so weak, that you will only "win" a debate from people who already agree with you. Pathetic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455319)
If you wish to ban me, go ahead (exit strategy... boring victim card), but I will say that I have spoken truth ("and if you don't believe me, ask my guide: me") today, and apologized for my mistakes.

Also, you are the only one who agrees with your point of view. Anyone with any standing on the topics of the Bible or God disagrees with you entirely. And yet you proclaim that you are right all along, even though it has been proven that you made mistake after mistake.

I know that atheists have no morals, but don't you feel even some shame?

Cranky Old Man 01-20-2010 10:17 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Aaron (Post 455319)
Oh no...it is not ludicrous at all :-) the English language is so much less complex than Hebrew, I am fairly certain that you are of the same group of close minded fools that have managed to shove millions away from God's love. I am very certain the the English Bible is inaccurate (especially as seeing as how Greek has 3 separate words for love, with 3 separate meanings as an example :-) )

And again here we go with the wild unfounded accusations. As if calling people "fools" is going to prove your point. Every time me and my Brothers quote scripture you simple ignore it and keep on rambling.

If you are so sure you are right then prove it. Quote the scripture we are missing, point out where we are wrong. You can even use Greek scripture if you like if you think that will prove your point. Your "Greek has 3 separate words for love" argument is nonsense. Perhaps in some cases they use 1 word where we would need 3 in English and in other cases it will be the other way around. When you translate text you translate everything, not just a single word.

It's time to put your money where your mouth is and add some substance to your claims. Or just leave and show to everyone following this discussion you just have a great mouth but no idea what you are talking about.

The Bible is not what you feel it should be. It's cold hard accurate logic text which everyone can read. If they just want to. God made it easy, you are making it complicated.

Vacountryboy 01-21-2010 02:37 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
This website is joke right?? No one on the face of this earth can seriously be this manipulated and screwed up in the head! haha

This forum is world wide in numerous forums where we laugh at the idealogical statements and completely bull shit you people believe. You are jokes, it is not the the Christian faith you are believing in, but pure nonsense.

Jesus would never scold a rape victim, as a matter of fact he even loved the prostitutes and whores, and this girl who was raped cannot help she was raped, SHES DONE NOTHING WRONG! Have not one of you read a bible? When did Jesus say you could judge anyone, especially a poor girl YOUR SELVES NEVER EVEN MET! Do you know how many people every year are raped? Have any of you ever went outside?

The sick man should have his genitals cut off and shoved down his throat, why the hell would a women marry someone who sexually assaulted and raped her?

I hope one day some huge black man [does dreadful things to your backside], and we will see if you marry him or not, you [people]

GOD=life 01-21-2010 02:40 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vacountryboy (Post 455915)
You are jokes, it is not the the Christian faith you are believing in, but pure nonsense.

Please cite Scripture to support your outlandish claim. This Bible is not nonsense, but the Word of God. This is what we follow.

And please don't try the angle of "but I'm a Christian" -- day after day, atheists come in here pretending to be a Christian, but they are quickly exposed.

Vacountryboy 01-21-2010 02:46 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GOD=life (Post 455916)
Please cite Scripture to support your outlandish claim. This Bible is not nonsense, but the Word of God. This is what we follow.

And please don't try the angle of "but I'm a Christian" -- day after day, atheists come in here pretending to be a Christian, but they are quickly exposed.

Honestly, I dont care. Go read what Jesus says about judging others, loving your enemies, and who he hung out with when he was on earth. Its like you guys say all this crap to make you feel good. Christians and non believers alike laugh at you guys, you have the same generic answers for everything and think you know all.

I figured your statement would consist of something of the following, and you proved me right. Although I figured it would go something more like this. ..

"Read your bible, your not a true christian! Were so intelligent your shit shit shit bla bla bla can you back your statements up with scripture? We cant but since were on our little fag forum we can boast how good we are woo hoo Lets all go make gay love together!"

I just wanted to see if you brainwashed people were joking or if you are really this piffleed up in the head. I guess Ive made my point.

Im glad that the Christian religion is dramatically dying out in America, fags like you can be locked up. Have a nice day

Vacountryboy 01-21-2010 02:50 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Just like it says Unsaved trash, you look down on unsaved people. Jesus loved those and thats who he spent time around. Do any of you read the new testament??? haha

This is funny but sad at the same time that people like yourselves exist.

Mrs. Rogers 01-21-2010 02:55 PM

Re: What can you do if your daughter refuses to marry her rapist?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vacountryboy (Post 455919)
Honestly, I dont care. Go read what Jesus says about judging others, loving your enemies, and who he hung out with when he was on earth. Its like you guys say all this crap to make you feel good. Christians and non believers alike laugh at you guys, you have the same generic answers for everything and think you know all.

But we do know it all -- because we know the BIBLE. Jesus wasn't the simpering hippie that ignorant Christians believe He was.

The Jesus they believe in is merely a figment of their imagination. Our Jesus is the BIBLE Jesus. See? Good.

Glad to have cleared that up.


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