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Jeb Stuart Thurmond 11-13-2007 10:15 AM

What Christians believe about Abortion
 
What Christians believe about Abortion:

Does life begin at conception?

The Bible clearly states that Life begins BEFORE conception.

Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. -Jeremiah 1:5, and Psalm 139:13

Life begins at the time sperm are created. This why God put Onan to death for using birth control:

Genesis 38:9-10:

And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest he should give seed to his brother.

And the thing which he did displeased the LORD; therefore He slew him also.

If we were to believe that life begins at conception, sins like masturbation and birth-control would be acceptable. However, life begins BEFORE conception, so they are not.

Loophole: Note that while human life begins before conception, Jewish life begins one month after birth:

In Leviticus 27:6 a monetary value was placed on jewish children, but not until they reached one month old (any younger had no value). Full Chapter
Likewise, Numbers 3:15:

"Count the Levites by their families and clans. Count every male a month old or more."

What's the difference between True Christian beliefs on Abortion and false-Christian beliefs on abortion?

Catholic dogma and "infallable" Popes support baby-murdering:

Quote:

From Vicars of Christ, by Peter De Rosa (former professor at the prestigious Gregorian University, in Rome):

"For fourteen hundred years until late in the nineteenth century, all Catholics, including the popes, took it for granted that the soul is not infused at conception. If the church was wholly opposed to abortion, as it was, it was not on the basis of the conceptus startingas a human being.

From the fifth century, the church accepted without question the primitive embryology of Aristotle. The embryo began as a non-human speck that was progressively animated. This speck had to evolve from vegetative, through animal to spiritual being. Only in its final stage was it a human being. This is why Gratian was able to say: `He is not a murderer who brings about abortion before the soul is in the body.'

The characteristics of the foetus were attributed solely to the father. It (and it was correct to refer to the embryo as `it') became human at forty days for the male and eighty days for the female. A female resulted, said Aquinas, from defective seed or from the fact that conception took place when a damp wind was blowing. It followed that to abort a foetus in the early stages of pregnancy was wrong, since it was the destruction of a potential human being. It was not murder, since it was not the killing of an actual human being.

In the fifteenth century, moralists began to ask whether it was not possible in certain circumstances to get rid of the foetus without fault. For example, when it results from rape or incest or even from adultery, thus threatening the husband's rights and the marriage itself. The same dilemma arose in the case of a mother whose health would be endangered if she had to bring a foetus to full term. Was it not a moral duty to save a human life at the expense of a non_human if potentially human life? Some of the (most prominent Catholic) theologians answered Yes.

Some went further. They said it was permissible to save a mother's life even after the foetus was humanized, that is, after the soul was infused...

...(The "infallable") Gregory XIII (1572-85) said it was not homicide to kill an embryo of less than forty days since it was not human. Even after forty days, though it was homicide, it was not as serious as killing a person already born, since it was not done in hatred or revenge....

As late as the eighteenth century, the (Catholic) church's greatest moral theologian, St. Alfonsus Liguori, was still denying that the soul was infused at conception. Like Aquinas before him, he did not say direct abortion was right, but his view allowed a flexibility of approach to abortion, especially when the mother's life was in danger." (p. 375)

St. Augustine, Bishop of Hippo (ca. 415 AD), one of the most influential of all Catholic theologians, persuaded early Church leaders that abortion should not be regarded 'as homicide, for there cannot be a living soul in a body that lacks sensation due to its not yet being formed.' He, and Thomas Aquinas after him, taught that the embryo does not acquire a human soul until the end of the first trimester. At the beginning of the 13th century Pope Innocent II proposed that 'quickening' (the time when the woman first feels the fetus move within her) should be the moment at which abortion becomes homicide. Abortions occurring prior to that moment constituted a less serious sin. Pope Gregory XIV 's declaration in 1591 that early abortion was not grounds for excommunication guided Church policy until 1869.
More Info here.

Born-again babykillers.

I can't believe how many times I have heard a false-Christian say "I believe life begins at conception because I'm a born-again Christian." HELLO? "I believe life begins at CONCEPTION because I'm a BORN-again Christian?" If you really believed life begins at conception, you would call yourself a "concieved-again" Christian, not a born-again Christian.

Here is a list that proves that even protestant false-Christians still believe the Catholic baby-killing dogma:

They baptize babies after birth. True Christians™ baptize the unborn baby with an injection.

They celebrate "Birthdays" not conceptiondays as True Christians do

They say "I have two children and one on the way" instead of "I have three children".

True Christian women check their maxi-pads for miscarriages, and hold a funeral when they find one. "Born-again" babykillers don't.

They have no complaints about the census not counting the unborn.

They also have no complaints against "birth certificates" while True Christians are lobbying for them to be replaced with Conception Certificates

The vast majority of birth control methods involve killing a fertilized egg, including the ubiquitous birth control pill. That's right, if your wife is on the pill, she's a baby-killer. False-Christians brag about how they oppose abortion, yet they have no complaints about this far more common type of babykilling.

Though they oppose stem cell research, which mutilates dead babies, they don't oppose the In vitro fertilisation process which murdered the babies in the first place. Stem Cells are corpses being recycled. It's the fetilization process that created the corpses - and false-Christians don't have anything against it.

The biggest hypocracy of these liberal Christians is that they consider AIDS, Malaria, famine and so on as problems that should be solved, yet they do NOTHING about the fact that 74% of children die of natural causes in the womb (usually within days of conception). They're all "let's cure AIDS" and "let's stop famine" but when it comes to millions upon millions of unborn babies dieing...They suddenly don't care.

Of course, True Christians don't care about either AIDS or unborn babies killed by God's will, because we believe in God's Divine Plan and have no desire to mess it up.

Is abortion Murder?

Yes.

Is Murder wrong?

Sometimes. When God orders us to murder, it is "smiting".

For example, the Bible clearly states that pregnant criminals should be executed:

Genesis 38:24:
24 About three months later Judah was told, "Your daughter-in-law Tamar is guilty of prostitution, and as a result she is now pregnant."
Judah said, "Bring her out and have her burned to death!"
(Full chapter)

Jesus said Judas should have been aborted for his own sake:

"The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born." -Matthew 26:24

King Solomon said for some it might better to be aborted: "Better the miscarriage than he..." -Ecclesiastes 6:3-5

"I should have been...from womb to tomb" -Job 10:18-19

This DOES NOT mean that women have a "right to choose" murder. Only God, and True Christian MEN such as Jesus, King Solomon, and Job have a right to choose murder.

If a man suspects his wife is cheating on him, she has to have an abortion.

Note that this is not "pro-choice" because the woman does not choose to murder her baby. Her husband chooses to have a priest murder the baby, and she has no say in the matter.

In the morally-sound days of Moses, a husband can take her to a priest where she will be given a medicine ("bitter water") which aborts the fetus. If she is guilty of this trespass, "may he make thy thigh to rot, and may thy belly swell and burst asunder. Let the cursed water enter into thy belly, and may thy womb swell and they thigh rot." Numbers 5:21-22 King James Version

The New International translates this in a way that makes it hard to understand. Things suddenly get clearer by looking at the alternative translations in the footnotes:

Numbers 5:21 Or causes you to have a miscarrying womb and barrenness
Numbers 5:22 Or body and cause you to be barren and have a miscarrying womb
Numbers 5:27 Or suffering; she will have barrenness and a miscarrying womb

Here is the whole thing in NIV, with the footnotes placed in the text:

The Test for an Unfaithful Wife

11 Then the LORD said to Moses,

12 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'If a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him
13 by sleeping with another man, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act),
14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure-
15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder offering to draw attention to guilt.
16 " 'The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the LORD.

17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.
18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the LORD, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.
19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, "If no other man has slept with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you.
20 Butif you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have defiled yourself by sleeping with a man other than your husband'"-
21 here st is to put the woman under this curse of the oath-"may the LORD cause your people to curse and denounce you when he causes you to ' have a miscarrying womb and barrenness.
22 May this water cause you to be barren and have a miscarrying womb " " 'Then the woman is to say, "Amen. So be it."
23 " 'The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water.
24 He shall have the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water will enter her and cause bitter suffering.
25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the LORD and bring it to the altar.
26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water.
27 If she has defiled herself and been unfaithful to her husband, then when she is made to drink the water that brings a curse, it will go into her and cause bitter suffering; she will have barrenness and a miscarrying womb, and she will become accursed among her people.
28 If, however, the woman has not defiled herself and is free from impurity, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

Nobar King 11-13-2007 03:18 PM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Hallelujah brother Jeb! Praise you for posting such an informative lesson! You do the lord's work.

"may he make thy thigh to rot, and may they belly swell and burst asunder. Let the cursed water enter into thy belly, and may thy womb swell and they thigh rot." 15:21-22 King James Version

The 'make thy thigh rot' part is a little harsh. Sounds like a combination punishment/abortion. Serves her right for making her husband think that she was sleeping around.

Father Thomas Martin 11-17-2007 07:23 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Jeb Thormond, get out of the Old Testament!

Jesus repealed all the other old laws (besides the Decalogue) when He died on the Cross!

Enigmatic Harpo Marx 11-17-2007 07:51 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
I find it deliciously ironic that most fundamental Christian tenants comes from the book of the Jews and yet they find the beliefs of Jews to be quite...distasteful. hehehehe

SalvationSeeker 11-17-2007 07:58 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Thomas Martin (Post 109247)
Jeb Thormond, get out of the Old Testament!

Jesus repealed all the other old laws (besides the Decalogue) when He died on the Cross!

Chapter and verse, papist scum! :angry:

Seeker 11-17-2007 08:02 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
I don't give a flying monkey of this political nonsense. I could never ever have an abortion. Okay, If i was raped, ya betcha, morning after pill. In a nano second... Something like (don't make me look it up now cuz it is past my bedtime)US military does it 24/7. how is it okay to kill grown adults "JUST WALKING IN THEIR Land.."











"

At least I would be in the ER in 3 seconds before anyone could bitch a human life. And then some. I would be the one for the responsibility in that sense.

I am a way... leftie, but still... Yeah, abortion makes me sad.. But I realize the Rublicans that bitch are not willing to give up their Christian homes for it. (sad) They like to kill!!!

Enigmatic Harpo Marx 11-17-2007 08:02 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SalvationSeeker (Post 109259)
Chapter and verse, papist scum! :angry:

tsk, tsk now is that anyway to treat a man of the cloth

Talitha 11-17-2007 09:24 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Harpo Marx (Post 109264)
tsk, tsk now is that anyway to treat a man of the cloth

The only Cloth that Catlicks are interested in is the cloth that covers a child's Butt.

Father Thomas Martin 11-20-2007 10:09 PM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SalvationSeeker (Post 109259)
Chapter and verse, papist scum! :angry:

OK:

It's a common fact that carrots are good for your eyes.

BUT nowhere in the Bible does it say that...So is it false then?

Pastor Ezekiel 11-20-2007 11:21 PM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Thomas Martin (Post 110038)
OK:

It's a common fact that carrots are good for your eyes.

BUT nowhere in the Bible does it say that...So is it false then?

Nice try, papist. When you are losing a debate, bring up some extraneous nonsense to change the subject...:glare:

The Bible DOES say men shouldn't wear dresses. What's your excuse there?

Father Thomas Martin 11-21-2007 01:45 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Ezekiel (Post 110057)
Nice try, papist. When you are losing a debate, bring up some extraneous nonsense to change the subject...:glare:

The Bible DOES say men shouldn't wear dresses. What's your excuse there?

It says a WOMAN'S dress.

Our vestments signify the importance of what we are doing, as the Mass is the unbloody ongoing sacrifice of the Cross...

I see you just wear suit and tie when you preach, so people would get the impression that you don't take the Lord's work seriously at all...

Pastor Isaac Peters 11-21-2007 08:16 PM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Father Thomas Martin (Post 110084)
It says a WOMAN'S dress.

As opposed to what, a man's dress? A dress is a woman's garment (Deut. 22:5); I don't know how you can walk down the street, see how people dress, and still think otherwise.

Quote:

Our vestments signify the importance of what we are doing, as the Mass is the unbloody ongoing sacrifice of the Cross...
Ongoing sacrifice? Really? Then explain this:

Hebrews 10:10: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

Also, if it's unbloody, then how can the communion wine actually become the Blood of Christ, as your Catholic vampire cult teaches? You can't have it both ways, papist.

Quote:

I see you just wear suit and tie when you preach, so people would get the impression that you don't take the Lord's work seriously at all...
Okey dokey. Our pastors should wear fish-head hats, silk dresses, and red Prada slippers. Yeah, nothing conveys seriousness like that. :rofl3:

Sister Noddy 11-22-2007 12:02 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Isaac Peters (Post 110224)

Okey dokey. Our pastors should wear fish-head hats, silk dresses, and red Prada slippers. Yeah, nothing conveys seriousness like that. :rofl3:

And don't forget the papist's slippery bead fingers while you're at, Pastor! :beee:

your mother 11-22-2007 02:57 PM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
FALCON PUNCH!!!!

Nobar King 11-22-2007 03:45 PM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by your mother (Post 110414)
FALCON PUNCH!!!!

Is that some kind of demon Xbox attack combo?

Rachael Van Helsing 11-24-2007 05:21 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeb Thurmond (Post 108076)
What Christians believe about Abortion: *snip*

I believe I already made a thread on this subject. The bible is more pro-abortion than against. And, there are more quotes saying that life begins with the first breath, and not conception.

Father Thomas Martin 11-24-2007 06:08 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
That is one thing I disagree with both you AND Landover on...

How can they quote Jesus from the Old Testament? God the Father said everything, God the Son said nothing until the Gospels...And all the quotes about "keeping the old law" were made BEFORE the Passion...Think up some ones afterwards...

Rachael Van Helsing 11-24-2007 08:37 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
It's all fairytales to me, Fr Tom. You might as well ask me 'how could that awful wolf eat little red riding hood'? :D

DantesBbyGrl07 11-25-2007 01:43 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker (Post 109263)
I don't give a flying monkey of this political nonsense. I could never ever have an abortion. Okay, If i was raped, ya betcha, morning after pill. In a nano second... Something like (don't make me look it up now cuz it is past my bedtime)US military does it 24/7. how is it okay to kill grown adults "JUST WALKING IN THEIR Land.."











"

At least I would be in the ER in 3 seconds before anyone could bitch a human life. And then some. I would be the one for the responsibility in that sense.

I am a way... leftie, but still... Yeah, abortion makes me sad.. But I realize the Rublicans that bitch are not willing to give up their Christian homes for it. (sad) They like to kill!!!





What's the difference between a wanted Child for Christ and a Child conceived in rape? I see none, they two are still children, Shouldn't both be given their fair chance at life as you and I were. Abortion in any form is wrong and goes against the Bible "Be fruitful and multiply" If Christ wanted his children smited he would do it himself, Man (or woman) has NO RIGHT doing Christ's job for him and any man who pretends to be the Lord and smit a child born or unborn deserves to burn in hell for all eternity.

Seeker 11-25-2007 03:43 AM

Re: What Christians believe about Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DantesBbyGrl07 (Post 111001)
What's the difference between a wanted Child for Christ and a Child conceived in rape? I see none, they two are still children, Shouldn't both be given their fair chance at life as you and I were. Abortion in any form is wrong and goes against the Bible "Be fruitful and multiply" If Christ wanted his children smited he would do it himself, Man (or woman) has NO RIGHT doing Christ's job for him and any man who pretends to be the Lord and smit a child born or unborn deserves to burn in hell for all eternity.

Because if one was aborted - that would be a straight ticket to paradise. They would not have to endure free will.


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