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Default Re: The Most MISUNDERSTOOD Passage in All the Bible (Matthew 7:1- - 04-13-2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by epignosis View Post
Yes I did read the rest of this thread, that is why I really felt the need to comment on this.

Romans 5:12 (King James Version)

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

To say that we are perfect, is actually a contradiction of this scripture.
Adam and Eve had a direct relationship with God. But we need Jesus as a mediator.
Friend, you shouldn't take Scripture out of context. If you had read further, you would have come across this Verse:

Romans 5:19:
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Romans 5:12 teaches that all have sinned, as it is explaining the nature of sin, and the forgiveness of sins because of Jesus' atoning Blood shed on the cross.

It then continues to explain that, as we all sin because of Adam's original sin, we are now made righteous by Jesus' sacrifice, effectively undoing Adam's transgression. This is why True Christians™ are without sin:

1 John 3:9:
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18:

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Quote:
1 Timothy 2:5-6 (King James Version)

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

To say were are perfect denies what Jesus died for.
Nonsense. We are made perfect by Jesus' blood:

Colossians 1:21-22:
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight

So in fact the opposite is true: to say we aren't perfect is to deny that Jesus died for us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by epignosis View Post
I would like to add a few more comments on this 'perfection'

1 Kings 8:46-48 (King James Version)

46If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;
Again, this was written before Jesus died for our sins. Back then, there indeed were no sin-free persons.

Of course, there is also a difference between never sinning and being sin-free. We are not sin-free because we never sinned; we are sin-free because Jesus died for our sins.

Quote:
Proverbs 20:9 (King James Version)

9Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?

These scriptures say that all men are sinners.
You rather clumsily misinterpret this Passage. It doesn't say that all people are in sin, it says that no person can make his heart clean himself. Only Jesus can do that.

Quote:
I John 3:6-9 (KJV)
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:6-9 (New Living Translation)

6 Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.

7 Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. 8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life[a] is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God.

Do you see in this scripture that it is the practice of sin that is evil. And it is our not practising sin any more that we are counted as righteous. It doesn't mean we are perfect, or sinless.
The KJV doesn't give the full meaning to this verse.


1 John 5:18 (King James Version)

18We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 John 5:18 (Amplified Bible)

18We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ's divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].

1 John 5:18 (New Living Translation)

18 We know that God’s children do not make a practice of sinning, for God’s Son holds them securely, and the evil one cannot touch them.

I added some other translations of the verse in 1 John 5:18.
The KJV is not very good with this verse. The other translations give a better understanding. It is not that we are perfect or sinless, but that we strive not to practice sin any more. That is how God counts us righteous or perfect. But we are not righteous or perfect like Jesus was, as a man.
Friend, the NLT is a modern corruption of God's Word. We only follow the KJV here, and if the KJV says: "True Christians cannot sin," then True Christians cannot sin.

And even if you look at the "original Greek," then the NLT translation is not supported, as the words translated as "doth not commit sin" are hamartian ou poiei. Hamartia means "sin," in the Bible it is used many times, like here:

Matthew 26:28:
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (hamartia)


I would think it means "sin" here, wouldn't you?

Ou means "not," poieo means "to do." So, hamartian ou poiei means "does not commit sins." The "making a practice of," "deliberately and knowingly" and "strive not to" parts of the NLT aren't supported anywhere by the original Greek text, and were just made up at the spot to twist Scripture to make it deny the sin-free state of True Christians™.


Sweet Lord Jesus,
I want to pray for those who persecute me, my Lord.
Please, treat their children as you treated those of Egypt, when they upset you! (Psalm 135:8-9)
Dash their little children against the stones for their fathers iniquity! (Psalm 137:8-9)
Hit them on the cheek, and smash out their teeth! (Psalm 3:7)
Make their death and descent into Hell swift and terrible! (Psalm 55:15)
Scatter their broken bodies over the streets of their evil cities, like Benghazi, Amsterdam, Tokyo and Mecca! (Psalm 110:6)
Praised be Your Glorious Name™.

Amen.

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