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Default Re: The Christian guide to TORTURING your children - 11-30-2013, 06:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by winstonsomething View Post
Not magically. It's about valence electrons and proximity.

Depends on the odds of that happening. If this occurs very often, then yes, we would see it all the time.

We don't, and we can conclude the odds are very small. Yet they are not zero. As I stated, billions of years passed since the universe started. Our universe contains millions of galxies, all of which have billions of stars. A fraction of them is habitable, meaning it has conditions similar to earth. On some of them, life formed and earth happens to be one of them.
Show me anywhere else there is life except on God's green Earth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winstonsomething View Post
Yes, it is a reductio ad absurdum of your original argument which was this:
You claimed God is unsympathetic. I countered with an amazing show of love and sympathy by God for the plight of man. You couldn't stand to be shown that you are wrong, so you invent subterfuge. Nice try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winstonsomething View Post
Then what is it that he exists in?
God cannot be contained. It's akin to trying to express the set of real numbers on a closed interval.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winstonsomething View Post
In a more abstract way

Egg->chicken #this is a transformation: one thing is consumed by turning into another one
chicken->egg+chicken #this is not a transformation as the chicken is not consumed. It existed before it laid an egg and will continue to do so after the egg was laid.
You're missing the entire point here. Chickens produce chicken eggs. If you trace a chicken's ancestry back to the beginning, you arrive at the original chicken God created.

Quote:
Genesis 2:19 (1611 King James Bible)

And out of ţe ground the LORD God formed euery beast of the field, and euery foule of the aire, and brought them vnto Adam, to see what he would call them: and whatsoeuer Adam called euery liuing creature, that was the name thereof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstonsomething View Post
I think it has been brought up that in this case he could create a stone he couldn't lift.

If he couldn't create it, he wouldn't be omnipotent, if he could create it, he couldn't lift it and then he wouldn't be omnipotent.
This question is representative of the type of paradoxes atheists use in attempts to prove that God cannot exist. It works like this. God is supposed to be omnipotent. If He is omnipotent, then He can create a rock so big that He can't pick it up. If He cannot make a rock like this, then He is not omnipotent. If He can make a rock so big He can't pick it up, then He isn't omnipotent either. Either way demonstrates that God cannot do something. Therefore God is not omnipotent. Therefore God does not exist.

Is this logical? A little. However, the problem is that this bit of logic omits some crucial information. Therefore, it's conclusion is inaccurate.
What the above "paradox" lacks is vital information concerning God's nature. His omnipotence is not something independent of His nature. It is part of His nature. God has a nature and His attributes operate within that nature, as does anything and everything else.

For example, I have human nature. I can run, but I cannot outrun a lion. My nature simply does not permit it. My ability to run is connected to my nature and I cannot violate it. So too with God. His omnipotence is connected to His nature since being omnipotent is part of what He is. Omnipotence, then, must be consistent with what He is and not with what He is not since His omnipotence is not an entity to itself. Therefore, God can only do those things that are consistent with His nature. He cannot lie because it is against His nature to do so. Not being able to lie does not mean He is not God or that He is not all powerful. Also, He cannot cease to be God. Since He is in all places at all times, if He stopped existing then He wouldn't be in all places at all times. Therefore, He cannot cease to exist without violating His own nature.

The point is that God cannot do something that is a violation of His own existence and nature. Therefore, He cannot make a rock so big he can't pick up, or make something bigger than Himself, etc. But, not being able to do this does not mean He is not God, nor that He is not omnipotent. Omnipotence is not the ability to do anything conceivable, but the ability to do anything consistent with His nature and consistent with His desire within the realm of His unlimited and universal power which we do not possess. This does not mean He can violate His own nature. If He did something inconsistent with His nature, then He would be self-contradictory. If God were self- contradictory, He would not be true. Likewise, if He did something that violated His nature, like make a rock so big He couldn't pick it up, He would also not be true since that would be a self- contradiction. Since truth is not self-contradictory, as neither is God, if He were not true, then He would not be God. But God is true and not self-contradictory. Therefore, God cannot do something that violates His own nature.

Another way to look at it is to realize that in order for God to make something so big He couldn't pick it up, He would have to make a rock bigger than Himself. Since He is infinite in size, He would have to make something that would be bigger than Himself. Since it is His nature to be the biggest thing in existence because He created all things, He cannot violate His own nature by making a rock that is larger than He.
Also, since a rock, by definition, is not infinitely big, then it isn't logically possible to make a rock, something that is finite in size, be infinite in size (no longer a rock) since only God is infinite in size. At dictionary.com, a rock is defined as a "Relatively hard, naturally formed mineral or petrified matter; stone. a) A relatively small piece or fragment of such material. b) A relatively large body of such material, as a cliff or peak. c) A naturally formed aggregate of mineral matter constituting a significant part of the earth's crust." A rock, by definition, is not infinitely large. So to say the rock must be so big that God cannot pick it up is to say that the rock is no longer a rock.

What the critics are asking is that God become self-contradictory as a proof He doesn't exist. Their assertion is illogical from the start. What they are doing is trying to get God to be illogical. They are being illogical to prove God doesn't exist, instead of using logic. It doesn't work and the "paradox" is self-refuting and invalid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winstonsomething View Post
But not without evidence. And if there is contradicting evidence, it will be adjusted and advanced.
Contrast this with the unwavering, unchanging Word of God, perfect and complete. Sceince can be wonderful, but the moment it contradicts God's Word, it must be discarded, since it it obviously worthless.

Quote:
2 Timothy 3:16 (1611 King James Bible)

All Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God, & is profitable for doctrine, for reproofe, for correction, for instrution in righteousnesse,
This shows us that science, along with everything else, is to be corrected by the Word of God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winstonsomething View Post
We cannot observe god directly. but the bible makes statements about this world, we are living on, too. Does the bible accurately describe our world?
The Bible is accurate in all things, as explained above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winstonsomething View Post
If we were living in a christian theocracy, I would agree that the word of god is truth by that criterion. However, we don't live in a christian theocracy.
It doesn't matter what type of government we have, this does not affect the Truth of The Word of God. Governments come and go...The Word of God is eternally truthful.

Quote:
Matthew 24:35 (1611 King James Bible)

Heauen and earth shall passe away, but my wordes shall not passe away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstonsomething View Post
This doesn't look good for christian truth.

Doesn't look good for the future
What it doesn't look good for are all the unsaved heathens, like yourself, who are bound for hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winstonsomething View Post
5)Pragmatic

Truth is that concordance of an abstract statement with the ideal limit towards which endless investigation would tend to bring scientific belief

What you declare god cannot be scientifically proven. So by that definition the bible the idea of an omniscient, omnipotent creator can neither be false nor true.

To quote the amazing atheist from youtube: If I told you I had real dinosaur at home, but it is invisible, inaudible and you cannot touch it, would you believe me?
If a man makes a ridiculous statement, I would demand proof. However, if God were to say anything ridiculous, I would not demand proof. By definition, anything God says is true.




I Kings 7:23

And he made a moulten Sea, ten cubites from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, & his height was fiue cubits: and a line of thirtie cubites did compasse it round about.

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