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Default Re: Follow the Word of God, not your "conscience" - 10-16-2010, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by Pastor Billy-Reuben View Post
Friends, as a Bible-Believing True Christian™, my sense of right and wrong comes straight from the Word of God. The Bible is the very foundation of my moral values, Amen.

When I was out street-preaching last weekend, I met an honest-to-goodness Hellbount Atheist who wanted to "debate". I asked him what was his basis for morality if he doesn't believe in God or the Bible. He told me that he empathizes with others -- he knows that an action towards another is wrong if he would not like for someone else to do it to him. He gave as an example that he knows that it is wrong to kill others for pleasure because he doesn't want to be killed, and because he doesn't want anyone to kill someone he cares about.

I swiftly rebuked this Hellbound sinner with God's admonishment against following your own conscience rather than God's written laws in Deuteronomy 29:19-20 (or if you prefer, here is the Brick Testament version).

Later however, I started thinking about what that evil Athian had said. At first, I couldn't quite point out what was specifically wrong with his argument. It almost seems reasonable that one could behave morally simply by empathizing with others and following one's God given conscience. I knew that there had to be a reason for the LORD's prohibition against letting my conscience be my guide, so I did what I always do when questions pop up in my head -- I cracked open my King James 1611 Bible, and I immediately found the answer, Amen.

Empathy and conscience only get you so far. They can tell you a few obvious things, but there are too many things that they get completely wrong. The Bible is the only authority on what is right and wrong.

Here are some examples of things that conscience and empathy tell me are ok, but the Bible clearly states as being wrong:
  • I know a homosexual couple who have been in a committed, monogamous relationship for thirty years. They are honest and hardworking members of the community. They have an adopted son who grew up to be just as normal and well-adjusted as anyone else. They defy every off-the-wall stereotype of gays that the American Family Association has ever thought up. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that homosexuality is ok, and that gay marriage is nothing to be afraid of. I need the Bible to tell me that it is wrong. (Leviticus 20:13 - Brick Testament; Romans 1:26-27)
  • In my experience, women seem to be just as intelligent and capable as men. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that women and men are equals and that women deserve just as much dignity and respect as men do. I need the Bible to tell me that women are to be subjugated before men, and that men are to have dominion over women (1 Peter 3:1-6; Ephesians 5:22-24; 1 Timothy 2:11-15).
  • I know many nonchristians who live happy, productive lives. They love their families, and they are honest and hardworking. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that it doesn't matter what, if any, religion people follow, and that we should all try to just get along. I need the Bible to tell me that nonchristians are all antichrists (2 John 7) to be shunned (2 Cor.6:14-17), and if they ever try to deconvert a Christian, I am required to kill them. (Dt.13:6-10)
  • I've seen people eat pork, oysters, catfish, crablegs, crawfish, lobster, clams, scallops, fried calamari, etc. without ill effect. I have eaten of each item listed before I was saved -- they are all delicious. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I wouldn't have a clue that there was anything morally wrong with eating pork or shellfish. I need the Bible to inform me of that (Leviticus 11:7-10, Brick Testament).
  • If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that I should love my family. However, the Bible clearly states that I should hate my family if I want to follow Jesus. (Luke 14:26; Matthew 10:21, 35-37)
This cuts both ways. Here are some examples of things that conscience and empathy tell me are wrong, but the Bible states that as being ok:
  • If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that genocide is wrong. However, the Bible lists many stories where the LORD commands genocide. (Deuteronomy 7:1-6 - Brick Testament - Instructions for Genocide)
  • If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that slavery is wrong. However, the Bible clearly condones slavery. (Titus 2:9-10; Ephesians 6:5; 1 Timothy 6:1)
  • If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that peace is good and war is wrong, but the Bible says that the LORD is a man of war (Exodus 15:3), and that Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword (Matthew 10:34).
I would also have been likely to come to several incorrect conclusions about the morality of rape.
  • If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that rape was always wrong, and that it is one of the worst crimes a person could commit against another. The Bible does indeed prescribe the death penalty for the unsanctioned rape of a betrothed woman. However, the Biblical penalty for the unsanctioned rape of an unbetrothed female is a mere slap on the wrist. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29, Brick Testament).
  • I would also have been likely to come the the conclusion that in all rape cases, only the rapist was guilty guilty of wrong-doing. However, the Bible tells me that if the "victim" fails to cry out, then it is because she enjoyed it. In these cases, it is fornication, not rape, and the so-called "rapist" and "victim" are equally guilty. According to the Bible, "no" only really means "no" when she cries out loudly for help. (Dt. 22:23-24)
  • Further, I would have never imagined that there would ever be a time that rape would be considered a good thing. I would have been grievously wrong, because God often commands his Christian soldiers to rape the virgin women of a village after they have killed all the men, boys, and non-virgin women (Numbers 31 - Brick Testament).
Friends, what the Word of God says and what your conscience tell you will frequently be in conflict. Being saved and having faith means ignoring your conscience and following Jesus, Amen.

Praise Jesus!
Pastor Billy-Reuben
In all of this, I do not disagree with you to follow God's word.
But where do you think you get your since of morality, or conscience from, if not from what God has taught us?

You're first verse was misinterpreted because he actually defied the word of God to suite his own needs. More or less ignoring that he has been cursed by God. This is not his conscience but his actual way of thinking which is wrong.

The Bible does tell us what is right and wrong in God's eyes, but we also have the free will to decide for ourselves, and he will not curse us for making mistakes.

Yes, you can know homosexuality is wrong, and not even support it. That does not mean you persecute them.
Men have dominion over women some what, that does not mean they are lesser than men and it is a man's job to protect them and not rule over them harshly or detrimentally.

Nonchsristians are the lost and unsaved, not necessarily worshipers of the devil, satanic. They are to be helped back towards God and to understand his love for them, not turned away. If they do try to lure brethren away, reason with them first, make them see the folly of their ways, and try to get them to repent of their sin. If they refuse and continue in their way, cast them away from yourself and brothers and sisters. You. Don't. Kill. Them. Not only will you be prosecuted by the law most likely, it is against his commandment and applies to everyone. No one is higher above the other under the eyes of God, but he has set laws down and their are those who follow them, and those who disobey.

Food has nothing to do with sinning or not, unless you defile it when it was sacrificed to God.

God teaches Love, not hate, and the only thing God hates is Sin, not the sinner. What it means and refers to is that if you allow outside influences to turn you away from God, and you follow them, even with good intentions, you will be shaped accordingly.

That means don't convert to the people of that land's customs, not kill them. But yes, if God gives the land to you, then he will. That doesn't mean he condones genocide.

I will not paraphrase the rest, most people won't read the entire post anyways because they dislike reading long posts, if you do that's fine.
Most of your quotes have been from the Old Testament, that being said, they applied to that period of time, and while we should interpret them today to give us a clear understanding of God's word and what he did then, we must not necessarily follow them. A consequence of this being, you will be shunned by society, most of society, you will be persecuted, and you will be deemed as fanatical, which I have to say with most of the people's replies in this forum, I don't know if you're joking or not.

Most likely you will find this offensive and being against what you believe you will remove me from the forum, and I accept that. If it does take place, it will then show you can not be helped and I will forsake you, and pray that God forsake you as well. Not with Joy, but with mercy, for if he doesn't, then you might be better off left without a God.
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