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Default Re: There is no such thing as an "agnostic!" - 12-21-2010, 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by napa valley nan View Post
Problem is, agnostic doesnt fit exactly into "Doesnt Believe In God" cause thats cancelled out by "Doesn't NOT Believe In God".
As an atheist, I am glad you are willing to think about this, and I encourage you to ignore the fanatics here.

That said, you are still confusing "agnosticism" and "atheism." That you don't comprehend the diference is disturbing since at least two people here (one theist and one atheist) have spent a lot of time trying to explain a fairly simple concept to you. In fact it makes me suspect you are just having some fun and you don't really believe anything you say. BUT, since I only "suspect" it and I don't "believe" it, I will assume you are being honest and I will make one more good faith effort to explain.

They are two mutually exclusive ideas. You demonstrate that you are confusing them when you write "agnostic doesnt fit exactly into 'Doesnt Believe In God'." You are right, but the only problem is that nobody is saying that it does. What Agnosticism DOES fit exactly into "believes that knowledge of anything about God is impossible." It is atheism that fits perfectly into "doesn't believe in God." Please stop confusing the two terms.

Once more:

Agnostic says "Knowledge about any god is impossible."

Atheist says "I do not believe in any gods."

Do you see how these are not mutually exclusive terms?

One can be an Agnostic Atheist, a Gnostic Atheist, a Gnostic Theist, and even the weird Agnostic Theist. (As crazy as he is, Gabe gets it right with the little table he made.)

What these guys ARE saying about you being an atheist, and I agree with them, is that ANY agnostic who is not completely insane is also an atheist. They are giving you the benefit of the doubt and are assuming that you are not crazy. Since you are not crazy, you can't be an Agnostic Theist, so you must be an Agnostic Atheist. That is, to be an agnostic who is NOT an atheist means that you would be an Agnostic Theist which would mean that while you believe that any knowledge about any gods is impossible, you nevertheless still believe in a god.

Do you agree that to believe in things that you also agree one can know nothing about would be crazy?

It is the same as saying "It is impossible to know anything about what is behind the magic curtain." And then say "There is a unicorn behind that curtain. That is what I believe."

Note: You are not saying "I am guessing" or "I suspect" or "I wish." You are saying "I believe."

You also betray your misunderstanding when you say:

Quote:
Agnostic is neutral like Switzerland.
Wrong wrong wrong! To be neutral you would have to refuse to take a position on the matter. Agnostics don't do that and you haven't done that. The NON-neutral agnostic position is that knowledge of gods is impossible. Ask any Christian, Muslim, Jew, or other theist is that is a neutral position. See what they say. For that matter, ask any logical human. That is not a "neutral" position.

You, yourself, have previously posted both of the following statements:

You believe that knowledge about any gods is impossible

You don't believe in any gods

Those are links to at least one place each on these boards where you have stated these as your positions.

I am done trying to explain. If you can't pick up one of any number of dictionaries or read any number of encyclopedias, even wikipedia, and see that these are the definitions of AGNOSTICS in the first statement and ATHEISTS in the second statement, then you are beyond rational discussion and you are merely a wad of nervous emotional blabering who tries to come to sites like this and tell people what to do or say but refuses to act like an adult and participate in thoughtful discussion.

When you can't even crack open some reseach books and say "Oh... I see. I misunderstood these labels" when everyone else who thinks about these topics are in agreement, you are beyond hope. In fact, I kind of hope you become a devout Christian because that type of behavior is what Christians are all bout. (Denying reality when it contradicts what they emotionally want to believe.)

Good luck.

PS: As far as the "pro writer" her name is Margaret Atwood. A blurb on her:

Quote:
She is among the most-honoured authors of fiction in recent history; she is a winner of the Arthur C. Clarke Award and Prince of Asturias award for Literature, has been shortlisted for the Booker Prize five times, winning once, and has been a finalist for the Governor General's Award seven times, winning twice.


"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." - Judges 1:19
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