[OutRider]

Hey!

I'm here, again, in response to this (https://www.landoverbaptist.net/show...heme+challenge) challenge. In case the link gets automatically moderated, it is a challenge issued by Brother Gonzalez to Atheists. He asserts that we still kind of believe in God, and so wouldn't dare to blaspheme against him just in case he exists.


So here I am. First off, I believe in god to the extent you believe in garden gnomes - as such it is hard for me to say that I hate the holy spirit. But if god did exist, especially as you portray him, I would. If by some miracle he does exist, and I for some reason die and appear at the gates of heaven, I will look god in the face and walk backwards into hell unless he can give me some really good explanations for why the hell he exists, and all the atrocities he's committed. As you see I don't even believe him to be worthy of a capital letter at the start of anything referring to "Him" - I use it most of the time out of common courtesy.


If all this isn't blasphemy against the holy spirit, please tell me what is and I will gladly indulge you.


Also, while I'm here, what are your thoughts on Artificial Intelligence, or AI? I work on AI in my spare time and all current research shows that an AGI (Artificial General Intelligence), if created, would grant humans what would, from our current point of view, be Onmipotence, Omniscience, and potentially all the other Omnis too; and if that's not Blasphemy, I don't know what is.


Finally, I would like to suggest that the reason there aren't many Atheists here to answer your challenge is that very few delve deep enough to see it, and fewer still care enough to write a response as I have.


Best wishes to you all.

[Joanna Lytton-Vasey]

I haven't actually read beyond the first line of your post, but just wanted to ask: is there a reason why you decided to start a new thread for it, rather than reply on the original thread?

All the best, dear,
JL-V

[James Hutchins]

Garden Gnomes are real, you can buy them on the Amazon. There is this thing on the interwebs called Yahoo!, you can find anything with it.


Artificial Intelligence is nothing more than If statements, DB queries. The 'Cloud' is nothing more than a data warehouse. Giving something a fancy name or hiding it behind a big series of convoluted paragraphs does not make it special. A Latte is just a coffee with too much cream.

God created everything. There is a difference. Smart people know.
Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Matthew 4:4 Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

2nd Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Habakkuk 2:2 And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.

Jeremiah 36:2 Take thee a roll of a book, and write therein all the words that I have spoken unto thee against Israel, and against Judah, and against all the nations, from the day I spake unto thee, from the days of Josiah, even unto this day.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.
John 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
2nd Kings 10:10 Know now that there shall fall unto the earth nothing of the word of the LORD

Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psalm 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Psalm 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Psalm 100:5 For the LORD is good, his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations

Psalm 117:2 For his merciful kindness is great toward us: and the truth of the LORD endureth for ever. Praise ye the LORD.

Psalm 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.

Psalm 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Isaiah 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

1st Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God which liveth and abideth forever.
1st Peter 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1st Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you

So God has promised to preserve His word - and we know He delivers the goods:

Romans 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Isaiah 29:14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

John 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
John 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

John 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

1st Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1st Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1st Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1st Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1st Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1st Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1st Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1st Corinthians 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1st Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1st Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1st Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1st Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1st Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1st Corinthians 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should w

[Brother Gonzalez]

Originally Posted by Joanna Lytton-Vasey

I haven't actually read beyond the first line of your post, but just wanted to ask: is there a reason why you decided to start a new thread for it, rather than reply on the original thread?

All the best, dear,
JL-V

As it appears, our newly acquired friend does.not know how to follow a simple guide. In this case, he just states he does not hate the Holy Ghost, and then goes on saying he would hate... God, if He exists.
So he has not committed blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. He did not dare.


And btw, the challenge was to go to the original thread and do the thing there.


It remains unchallenged.

[OutRider]

Fine then - I hate god.

Though to me these words have about as much meaning as "I hate the tooth fairy". It's hard to hate something you don't believe exists, but I can hate every bit of god that does, such as this cult.


Also I went ahead and replied to the original post for you. And doesn't all the other stuff I said, like the stuff about AI, count as blasphemy?


Also, James, you can call AIs "nothing more than If statements, DB queries" but then so are our brains.

[Didymus Much]

Originally Posted by OutRider

...Also, James, you can call AIs "nothing more than If statements, DB queries" but then so are our brains.

A database inquiry can only return results contained in that database. If the concept of "God" was not included, where did it come from? Are you claiming that we're "hard-wired" to believe in God? Then why don't you?

[Brother Gonzalez]

Originally Posted by OutRider

Fine then - I hate god.

Though to me these words have about as much meaning as "I hate the tooth fairy". It's hard to hate something you don't believe exists, but I can hate every bit of god that does, such as this cult.


Also I went ahead and replied to the original post for you. And doesn't all the other stuff I said, like the stuff about AI, count as blasphemy?


Also, James, you can call AIs "nothing more than If statements, DB queries" but then so are our brains.

No, we have souls. AI is not Blasphemy, is a label for some linear regressions working with IF statements, as it was told to you.


You keep repeating you hate God, admitting His existence, and trying to deny it next line. Do you know how lame it sounds?


Come on, you have nothing to lose. Open your heart to God and Jesus! There is a reason why you haven't still committed blasphemy against the Holy Ghost! Jesus is preventing you to do so! I don't think you are as stupid as to do not know how to do so.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by OutRider

Fine then - I hate god.

Though to me these words have about as much meaning as "I hate the tooth fairy". It's hard to hate something you don't believe exists, but I can hate every bit of god that does, such as this cult.


Also I went ahead and replied to the original post for you. And doesn't all the other stuff I said, like the stuff about AI, count as blasphemy?


Also, James, you can call AIs "nothing more than If statements, DB queries" but then so are our brains.

I am happy you know there is a God. I am glad you know He gave you Free Will and your choice what you do with it. It is a shame you refuse to choose wisely.


The difference from Man and AI is simple. Man can constantly reprogram his thinking. Not just learn from mistakes but conceptualize brand new thought. AI is incapable of original thought. It is not possible for AI to self program. It is also impossible for it to be 'self aware'. AI is little more than a photocell that turns a light on and off.


BTW, 'all the other stuff you said' just is a display of ignorance.

[OutRider]

1) There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding where it comes to AI - I don't blame you. The whole thing about modern AI, James, is that it can write its own code, it can improve, and most importantly, it now can come up with original thought in the same way humans do. Take all this from someone who writes these things.
So, Didymus, AIs and our brains are kind of like functions to return answers from a database, as long as the database is everything we know about the world. Unfortunately, these functions are never perfect, and often return false results. Hence, Religion.

2) Isn't saying that AI can give us Godly Powers blasphemy?


3) I just looked it up in an online bible, and apparently I have to speak against the holy spirit directly to "never be forgiven". So; The holy spirit that you believe in/describe is stupid, evil and despotic.

[Isabella White]

Originally Posted by OutRider

If by some miracle he does exist, and I for some reason die and appear at the gates of heaven, I will look god in the face and walk backwards into hell unless he can give me some really good explanations for why the hell he exists, and all the atrocities he's committed.

Dear Miss OutrageousRider: May I say right here and now, that the Almighty owes you NO explanation -- of any kind, whatsoever! Rather, you will find (like it or not) that it will be YOU who will be giving the answers during your unavoidable appointment on Judgment Day!

Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment".

II Corinthians 5:10 " For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

Now, then, Dear, why don't you forget all of that other drivel you were going on about, and just give your life to the , and ask to forgive you from your disgusting, icky sins, and to accept as your and?

Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Wouldn't you rather have a nice, mortgage-free mansion, on a gold-paved street, instead of having fire shooting out of your ears for eternity?

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

I shall remember you in my prayers, Dear. Remember: eternity is forever, and the fires of will be unbearably hot.

Sincerely,
Isabella W.

[Brother Gonzalez]

Originally Posted by OutRider

1) There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding where it comes to AI - I don't blame you. The whole thing about modern AI, James, is that it can write its own code, it can improve, and most importantly, it now can come up with original thought in the same way humans do. Take all this from someone who writes these things.
So, Didymus, AIs and our brains are kind of like functions to return answers from a database, as long as the database is everything we know about the world. Unfortunately, these functions are never perfect, and often return false results. Hence, Religion.

2) Isn't saying that AI can give us Godly Powers blasphemy?


3) I just looked it up in an online bible, and apparently I have to speak against the holy spirit directly to "never be forgiven". So; The holy spirit that you believe in/describe is stupid, evil and despotic.

1) No, you are not working with AI, otherwise, you would not say things like that. Where is the "empathy" on AI? And how that is important to the evolution of the human brain, and how it takes decisions? This, according to your science, not my Bible.


2) No, it is not Blasphemy. It is stupidity. Can you flood the entire word with AI because you don't like your creation? Can you make a entire Universe in 6 days? You are not even close to give human powers to a machine with AI, let alone give a human God's power.


3) So now you are using the final twist of "blaspheming" against the Holy Ghost "we believe in". And YOU KNOW that does not count. Because you are so smart, AI code writer, you cannot miss this because you are not smart enough.


If you are the AI code writer, I understand why AI might be starting to write code itself. It is its only chance!

[Basilissa]

Originally Posted by OutRider

Hey!

I'm here, again, in response to this (https://www.landoverbaptist.net/show...heme+challenge) challenge. In case the link gets automatically moderated, it is a challenge issued by Brother Gonzalez to Atheists. He asserts that we still kind of believe in God, and so wouldn't dare to blaspheme against him just in case he exists.

You really should read the challenge before attempting it - as clearly stated in the thread title and the opening post, the challenge is to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

First off, I believe in god to the extent you believe in garden gnomes

You've never seen a garden gnome? Well, I must say that means you live in a neighborhood where residents have good taste, but seriously, you never ventured out to the more questionable parts of the city where people put these ugly atrocities right where everyone can see them?

Originally Posted by OutRider

3) I just looked it up in an online bible, and apparently I have to speak against the holy spirit directly to "never be forgiven". So; The holy spirit that you believe in/describe is stupid, evil and despotic.

OK, I'll give you a "barely passing" grade on this one. It's certainly not blasphemy to say that God and the Holy Ghost are evil - otherwise, the Bible itself would be blasphemous:

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

I wouldn't call "despotic" a blasphemous statement, either. According to the dictionary, a despot is "a ruler with absolute power and authority... one exercising power tyrannically : a person exercising absolute power in a brutal or oppressive way" and these are also very fair descriptions of God.

However, calling the Holy Ghost stupid?!? OK, you crossed the line here, buddy, you crossed the single line which cannot be un-crossed. There's no point in praying for your soul anymore, you are doomed to suffer in Hell forever!

[OutRider]

Originally Posted by Brother Gonzalez

If you are the AI code writer, I understand why AI might be starting to write code itself. It is its only chance!

Nice one


Anyway, I'll make you a bet. I give AI a maximum of 50 years (Though it's probably more like 25) before it become AGI, and then ASI (Artificial Super Intelligence). A while before then, I intend to take part in the creation of an AI that will be able to convince you, and any other religious person to become atheist. If I do, you owe me 10 bucks. how 'bout it?

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by OutRider

1) There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding where it comes to AI - I don't blame you. The whole thing about modern AI, James, is that it can write its own code, it can improve, and most importantly, it now can come up with original thought in the same way humans do. Take all this from someone who writes these things.
So, Didymus, AIs and our brains are kind of like functions to return answers from a database, as long as the database is everything we know about the world. Unfortunately, these functions are never perfect, and often return false results. Hence, Religion.

2) Isn't saying that AI can give us Godly Powers blasphemy?


3) I just looked it up in an online bible, and apparently I have to speak against the holy spirit directly to "never be forgiven". So; The holy spirit that you believe in/describe is stupid, evil and despotic.

If AI can create, why does it need you?

[Brother Gonzalez]

Originally Posted by OutRider

Nice one


Anyway, I'll make you a bet. I give AI a maximum of 50 years (Though it's probably more like 25) before it become AGI, and then ASI (Artificial Super Intelligence). A while before then, I intend to take part in the creation of an AI that will be able to convince you, and any other religious person to become atheist. If I do, you owe me 10 bucks. how 'bout it?

My friend, Jesus will be back long before your plans, and gambling is a sin. Your double plan to make me stumble has failed, again.


See you from Heaven!

PS: when I was a child, science magazines said we would be living on the moon by the year 2000. Do not believe all the hype.

[Dana723]

My opinion on AI: It was a pretty bad movie. First, the kid robot was creepy. Then there was a gay robot? I think he died though. Then the kid robot went underwater and found some aliens. It didn't make a lick of sense.

[WilliamJenningsBryan]

Originally Posted by OutRider

Nice one


Anyway, I'll make you a bet. I give AI a maximum of 50 years (Though it's probably more like 25) before it become AGI, and then ASI (Artificial Super Intelligence). A while before then, I intend to take part in the creation of an AI that will be able to convince you, and any other religious person to become atheist. If I do, you owe me 10 bucks. how 'bout it?

Had that insufferable college dropout twit Mark Zuckerberg ever finished college he might have learned a few things - like Gödel's incompleteness theorems, Tarski's undefinability theorem, Hilbert's Entscheidungsproblem, or in your case Turing's theorem about when to stop.

These days Mark Zuckerberg continues to make a pest of himself, faces numerous scandals, and is instructing his army of drones to write AI "algorithms" to protect us all from hate speech, mysogny, islamophobia, and racism.

I have no doubt at AI can produce Obama clones that can read from teleprompters, Hillary clones that can say "Russia", news anchors that can repeat "Putin" and "Impeachment", and Beto's than can skateboard (but not without accidents - just like those AI self driving cars).

We here at the Landover Baptist Church spend an inordinate amount of time banning trolls, and we've been looking at outsourcing this expensive task to India - but the dot heads have distinguished themselves as more concerned about mooselimbs, hindaloos, and sacred cows. Show us how AI is better than Jesus and we might consider it.

[James Hutchins]

As a True Christian™, it breaks my heart when one of these lost souls comes here with their chest all puffed out declaring they 'just know it all' and when provided simple proofs, they slither away back down the rabbit from from where they came. Not clutching the firm, uplifting Bosoms of Christ©, being nourished with His Everlasting Love©.
As just a regular person, I imagine life would be simpler with no God. But with no God, there would be no purpose. There must be a purpose so therefore God must be.


If God = True then End
Loop God = False until True
Purpose = 0
God =True
Purpose = 1
God = False
Loop


It is not rocket science.

[OutRider]

Sorry I vanished. Caught up in work, you know how it is. Or maybe you don't.


Anyway, to anyone who's still here;

Originally Posted by James Hutchins

If God = True then End
Loop God = False until True
Purpose = 0
God =True
Purpose = 1
God = False
Loop

That's actually a pretty good attempt at code. True Christians never fail to surprise me.

Originally Posted by James Hutchins

There must be a purpose so therefore God must be.

I think that's a false premise. What is there to sya that there must be a purpose?

Originally Posted by [COLOR=#333333

WilliamJenningsBryan[/COLOR];1252912]
Show us how AI is better than Jesus and we might consider it.

I take that as a challenge. First off, as I said, give it a few decades and you'll probably be able to see it with your own eyes.

Originally Posted by [COLOR=#333333

Brother Gonzalez[/COLOR];1252912]
when I was a child, science magazines said we would be living on the moon by the year 2000. Do not believe all the hype.

True, but it looks like we are going to be living on Mars in 30 years or so, looking at what people like Elon Musk are doing, so the predictions were just 50 years early. Whereas Jesus's return has been predicted repeatedly ever since his death.


Secondly, Zuckerburg isn't even at the front of AI research. Google is. Here are some of their AIs who have learnt to walk;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn4nRCC9TwQ
and I assume you will have heard about how AIs beat the best human players in the world at Chess and Go.


The important thing here is that the AI isn't told how to walk or play chess - it's just given inputs (what it can "see") and possible outputs (what it can do to affect the situation) and told to figure it out by itself.


The goal in creating AGI is to create an AI that will be able to solve any problem. So you say "AI, do this" and the AI looks at the situation, runs through some possible situations in its head, and does a thing that will achieve the desired outcome. Given the examples above, I hope you can see how this isn't so far-fetched. And of course it goes without saying that it gets better at this every time it does it, and that it very quickly becomes millions of times better at completing any task than any human ever could be.


What you might find interesting is that, unless handled very very carefully, the first decision an AI is very likely to make is to destroy all humanity. Perhaps this is the second coming of Christ you speak of? Who knows.


I would love to hear your opinions on this. I won't be able to talk again today, but I will get back to you tomorrow (unless you really don't want me to). Also, if you read this far, thank you.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by OutRider

That's actually a pretty good attempt at code. True Christians never fail to surprise me.

I think that's a false premise. What is there to sya that there must be a purpose?

All True Christians are very well educated. To be able to know God is real requires a keen analytical mind. For example, I have a double masters from Princeton. One is in Business/Finance (so I could earn money to give to God) and the other was in Organic Chemistry, to be able to prove that only God can create life. I have acquired numerous certifications and certificates throughout my life. The most important being secure in the knowledge that God has me on the short list for a spot in Heaven.


If there was no purpose, then people would not strive for self awareness.

I take that as a challenge. First off, as I said, give it a few decades and you'll probably be able to see it with your own eyes.

Friend, the rapture will happen way before 30 years and therefore AI will never come to be, based on that alone, forgeting the premise of AI is absurd.
I recall in the 1960's, we were all told we'd have flying cars by 1975. Al Gore told us the world was going to burst into flames by 2010. Ron Regan promised we'd be bombing in five minutes. None came to be. Neither will AI. AI will never be anything more than Root beer or sarsaparilla. Only the prediction that 'The Donald' would be president came true.