[BelovedGift]

Hi, my name is Jonathan, and I have some questions, hopefully someone can help me understand. I'm not here to bash you guys, or speak anything against you, I just want to understand how you guys see these things.

Now, I do believe Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit (John 1:14, 1Timothy 3:16). I also believe many other things you believe.


I did notice you guys believe in beating your wives.. Can you tell me where in the scriptures it says that is an okay thing to do? I don't believe in that, and here are my scriptures to support my belief. Again, I am not attempting to bash you, as many other's have already. Just trying to understand.

----------
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

Pro 18:22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Col 3:20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

---------------

Hopefully I explained my thoughts well. There are other topics I don't agree within your doctrine, but I am not here to bash you, but to only understand why you believe those things, and where in the Bible it supports them.

One last one before I have to go... Your views on the Jews. Can you please explain why you believe they are bad people? I know Jesus Himself was a Jew, and the majority of the Bible was written by them.

Well, I gotta' get into my prayer closet before church. I hope I can get some clear answers, and hopefully I have not offended anyone. I'm just seeking knowledge of your beliefs without any bashing, arguing, or bantering.

Thanks and God bless.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by BelovedGift

Hi, my name is Jonathan, […] Just trying to understand.
----------
[…]Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
[…]
1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

A wife must “reverence her husband” Wives must revere their husband as Christ; Wife’s submit to the husband and be in subjection.

Clearly then if the wife fails in this, because a wife is the husband’s responsibility, and as the husband will answer to God for his wife’s sins, it is absolutely necessary to keep wives in line.
---------------

One last one before I have to go... Your views on the Jews. Can you please explain why you believe they are bad people?

They killed Christ

I know Jesus Himself was a Jew,

No he was NOT!

and the majority of the Bible was written by them.

No, it was written by True Christians, who were also Baptists.

[godsaves]

Originally Posted by Ezekiel Bathfire

[/I]Jesus was a Jew. No he was NOT! The Bible was written by Jews. No, it was written by True Christians, who were also Baptists.

First of all, Jesus was Jewish. He celebrate passover and followed jewish law. Thats why he was in Jerusalem before he was crucified, to celebrate the passover. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Second, yes a large part of the bible was written by Jews. Who else would have written the Old Testament since Christians were not even around until after Jesus' death and the start of the New Testament.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by godsaves

First of all, Jesus was Jewish. He celebrate passover and followed jewish law. Thats why he was in Jerusalem before he was crucified, to celebrate the passover. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Consider yourself corrected. Jesus IS not a damned joo. Look at THIS!

You aren't even a Christian, are you.

[godsaves]

I am Christian, and ok, I'll go with this for a second. What about the Old Testament, who wrote that?

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by godsaves

I am Christian, and ok, I'll go with this for a second. What about the Old Testament, who wrote that?

God.

[Rev. Jim Osborne]

Originally Posted by BelovedGift

I did notice you guys believe in beating your wives.. Can you tell me where in the scriptures it says that is an okay thing to do?

Now that's just a loaded question! I was captain of the debate team when I was majoring in theology, so I know all about the tricks you atheists use you to make us Christians look bad. We don't beat our wives; we discipline them. There's a world of difference.

----------

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Yes. One flesh. And as Paul explains later, the Man is the Head and the Woman is the Body. Is not the head in control of the body?

Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

Yes. Enjoy your wife. That's what she's here for, to fulfill man's happiness. Again, a reference that women should be servants to a man's needs.

Pro 18:22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

Yes, because as the Bible also illustrates, most women are vile whores. So finding a good wife is indeed quite rare, even rarer than rubies, the Bible tells us!

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

What's your point? God needed a human vessel so that Christ can be born in the flesh. Of course it's going to be a woman! Do you think he was going to impregnate Joseph???

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Yes. Don't commit adultery and don't divorce. What does this have to do with women being equal to men like you claim the Bible supposedly does?

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Yes, one flesh. Again, as Paul later states the Man is the Head and the Wife is the Body. Clearly Jesus is saying women are men's property if they are one of the same flesh. After all, isn't your arms and legs your own property?

1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

Every man in Landover Baptist Church follows this. We are all benevolent towards our wives. However, notice it is a two-way street. The wife is also required to be benevolent. What if she acts out of line or gets wayward? That's where loving discipline comes in.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

We all love our wives. If we didn't love them, we would let them be naturally rebellious and damn their own souls towards Hell.

Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Similar to the above. Again notice the requirement of the wife to give reverence to her husband. As long as the wife doesn't misbehave, the marriage is fine.

Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Col 3:20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

Strange that you quote these Colossians verses, since it pretty much proves our point about women. Wives, SUBMIT YOURSELVES unto your husbands! Paul is clearly saying women are lower than us and we have a right to rule over them. There is nothing about feminism and gender equality in this. But, thanks for quoting it nonetheless so that we can prove our point!

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

Yes, be in subject to your husbands.

Now, from the Bible verses you quoted, you can plainly observe that a recurring theme is that the Man is the master over the Woman, and there is no such thing as equality. It is true you cannot discipline your equal, but since women are not our equals (as the Bible illustrates), we are free to discipline them until they get back on the right path.

I am not ashamed to admit, in fact, I am rather proud, I do give my young wife a good spanking on the bare buttocks with a cat o' nine tails every now and then. I never, ever hit her in the face or punch her in the stomach or anything. I am not a sadistic monster. I am a loving, caring husband who looks after her, just as the Bible commands me.

Glad to have answered your honest questions! Now you know why we are right, and you are wrong.

[Emmett]

Originally Posted by Rev. Jim Osborne

Now that's just a loaded question! I was captain of the debate team when I was majoring in theology, so I know all about the tricks you atheists use you to make us Christians look bad. We don't beat our wives; we discipline them. There's a world of difference.

----------


Yes. One flesh. And as Paul explains later, the Man is the Head and the Woman is the Body. Is not the head in control of the body?



Yes. Enjoy your wife. That's what she's here for, to fulfill man's happiness. Again, a reference that women should be servants to a man's needs.



Yes, because as the Bible also illustrates, most women are vile whores. So finding a good wife is indeed quite rare, even rarer than rubies, the Bible tells us!



What's your point? God needed a human vessel so that Christ can be born in the flesh. Of course it's going to be a woman! Do you think he was going to impregnate Joseph???



Yes. Don't commit adultery and don't divorce. What does this have to do with women being equal to men like you claim the Bible supposedly does?

[/I]

Yes, one flesh. Again, as Paul later states the Man is the Head and the Wife is the Body. Clearly Jesus is saying women are men's property if they are one of the same flesh. After all, isn't your arms and legs your own property?



Every man in Landover Baptist Church follows this. We are all benevolent towards our wives. However, notice it is a two-way street. The wife is also required to be benevolent. What if she acts out of line or gets wayward? That's where loving discipline comes in.



We all love our wives. If we didn't love them, we would let them be naturally rebellious and damn their own souls towards Hell.



Similar to the above. Again notice the requirement of the wife to give reverence to her husband. As long as the wife doesn't misbehave, the marriage is fine.



Strange that you quote these Colossians verses, since it pretty much proves our point about women. Wives, SUBMIT YOURSELVES unto your husbands! Paul is clearly saying women are lower than us and we have a right to rule over them. There is nothing about feminism and gender equality in this. But, thanks for quoting it nonetheless so that we can prove our point!



Yes, be in subject to your husbands.

Now, from the Bible verses you quoted, you can plainly observe that a recurring theme is that the Man is the master over the Woman, and there is no such thing as equality. It is true you cannot discipline your equal, but since women are not our equals (as the Bible illustrates), we are free to discipline them until they get back on the right path.

I am not ashamed to admit, in fact, I am rather proud, I do give my young wife a good spanking on the bare buttocks with a cat o' nine tails every now and then. I never, ever hit her in the face or punch her in the stomach or anything. I am not a sadistic monster. I am a loving, caring husband who looks after her, just as the Bible commands me.

Glad to have answered your honest questions! Now you know why we are right, and you are wrong.

You call your idea of discipline and abuse different from each other? I would never lay a hand on my wife in a violent way. She listens to me. I listen to her. WE LOVE EACH OTHER!!! That is why you marry someone. Because you love them and want to start a family with them. NOT because you want someone to have sex with and be your servant. You do not teach them how to behave. You learn from each other!!! And you love each other.

[James Hutchins]

Originally Posted by Emmett

You call your idea of discipline and abuse different from each other? I would never lay a hand on my wife in a violent way. She listens to me. I listen to her. WE LOVE EACH OTHER!!! That is why you marry someone. Because you love them and want to start a family with them. NOT because you want someone to have sex with and be your servant. You do not teach them how to behave. You learn from each other!!! And you love each other.

A True Christian™ abhors violence. I am shocked you'd even let the thought enter your mind. I've read a few of your other posts and you certainly have some perverted and twisted thoughts. None of us ever lays a hand on anybody in a violent way. We instead offer our hand with form guidance.
We too love our wives and God. We too, want to have a family full of fine True Christian™ soldiers. We too, do not get married to have a servant. There are others that can do that. Everyone has roles to play in life. The man is the head of the household, everyone else plays a supporting part.
When mistakes are made, it is my duty to correct the errors and ensure it never, ever happens again.

[Emmett]

And is you'er idea of 'correcting' these mistakes hiting them in some way, shape, or form? Because I read some where on this site a man used to hit a pregnet woman in the belly to toughen the baby up and punish the woman for some thing that eve did only god knows how long ago. And he did not mean for you to keep punishing women for some thing he's already punished them for. Thats why child birth is painful.

[Nobar King]

Originally Posted by Emmett

And he did not mean for you to keep punishing women for some thing he's already punished them for. Thats why child birth is painful.

Did you mom tell you that?

[Brother Temperance]

Originally Posted by BelovedGift

Now, I do agree with women being subject to their husbands, but I'm not sure about beating them.

If you agree that women should be subject to their husbands, then you can't deny husbands the right to use reasonable force against their wives if they try to assert their independence. Take away a man's right to discipline his wife, and you'd have anarchy.

Originally Posted by BelovedGift

See, I totally agree with that, Heathen_Basher. But a Jew can turn to Jesus and live according to His teachings.

Yes, a Jew can stop being a stingy Jew and get saved. An atheist can turn to Jesus as well, but that hardly means that atheists are God's chosen people now does it?

Originally Posted by UnSavedSinceIwas12

So, Let me get this straight? Christ said "Do as I say, Not as I do?" I think not. At least that's not the way MY KJV1611 reads. I do believe you have a WARPED sense of the Bible.

Do you actually think we should try and behave like God? Laying down arbitrary rules, demanding constant affection, and killing anyone who crossed us? If we tried to behave like Our Lord, society would label us as psychopaths.

Originally Posted by Emmett

You learn from each other!

What can you learn from a woman, tho? I mean, I understand they might have some useful tips on cooking and cleaning, but a man showing an interest in either of those subjects sounds kind of queer to me.

Originally Posted by Emmett

And he did not mean for you to keep punishing women for some thing he's already punished them for. Thats why child birth is painful.

Yes, child birth is (part of) women's punishment for their role in original sin. But God has not already punished women for burning our steaks, so that's up to us.

[Epithanatios]

What about I Corinthians 7, it says there that both a man and a womanshould respect each other in marriage. My Bible teaches that the rulership of Adam over Eve resulted from the Fall and was therefore not a part of the original created order. Genesis 3:16 is a prediction of the effects of the Fall rather than a prescription of God's ideal order.

[Ezekiel Bathfire]

Originally Posted by Epithanatios

What about I Corinthians 7, it says there that both a man and a womanshould respect each other in marriage.

Indeed a woman must subjugate herself to a man to show respect and a man must ensure that the woman behaves herself so he may respect her

My Bible teaches that the rulership of Adam over Eve resulted from the Fall and was therefore not a part of the original created order. Genesis 3:16 is a prediction of the effects of the Fall rather than a prescription of God's ideal order.

Let's have a look at that verse - Ge:3:16: Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

You seem to be missing the point here, (a) see Ge:2:18 below and (b) God said in Ge:3:16: "he shall rule over thee" It doesn't matter when or why he said it - that is what He said! Unless you are calling God a liar!

Ge:2:18: And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

[Epithanatios]

Therefore using your own logic a woman should be able to ensure that the man behaves himself because he is just as susceptible to sin as a woman

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Epithanatios

What about I Corinthians 7, it says there that both a man and a womanshould respect each other in marriage. My Bible teaches that the rulership of Adam over Eve resulted from the Fall and was therefore not a part of the original created order. Genesis 3:16 is a prediction of the effects of the Fall rather than a prescription of God's ideal order.

We don't allow queers in this section of the forum, only Normal men. Take it somewhere else, Greek boy.

[Epithanatios]

oooh ouch....I can assure you sir that I am not a queer, however even though I am white i suppose you are justified in calling me greek, since my self proclaimed name is....haha when I first looked at your post I thought it said geek,

[Capt. Aaron Portway]

What's so (haha) funny God-mocker? Your silly, simplistic point has been proven wrong, so either start being polite or hit the bricks!

Any other ridiculous non-arguments you'd like to have proven wrong boy?

[UnSavedSinceIwas12]

Originally Posted by BelovedGift

Hi, my name is Jonathan, and I have some questions, hopefully someone can help me understand. I'm not here to bash you guys, or speak anything against you, I just want to understand how you guys see these things.

Now, I do believe Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit (John 1:14, 1Timothy 3:16). I also believe many other things you believe.


I did notice you guys believe in beating your wives.. Can you tell me where in the scriptures it says that is an okay thing to do? I don't believe in that, and here are my scriptures to support my belief. Again, I am not attempting to bash you, as many other's have already. Just trying to understand.

----------
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Pro 5:18 Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth.

Pro 18:22 Whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtaineth favour of the LORD.

Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Col 3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Col 3:20 Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

---------------

Hopefully I explained my thoughts well. There are other topics I don't agree within your doctrine, but I am not here to bash you, but to only understand why you believe those things, and where in the Bible it supports them.

One last one before I have to go... Your views on the Jews. Can you please explain why you believe they are bad people? I know Jesus Himself was a Jew, and the majority of the Bible was written by them.

Well, I gotta' get into my prayer closet before church. I hope I can get some clear answers, and hopefully I have not offended anyone. I'm just seeking knowledge of your beliefs without any bashing, arguing, or bantering.

Thanks and God bless.

Thank you for posting these scriptures although I'm sure one of these so called "True Christians" will disagree and call you a False Christian.

[WhyAmIHere?]

Completely argree