[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Friends, as a Bible-Believing True Christian™, my sense of right and wrong comes straight from the Word of God. The Bible is the very foundation of my moral values, Amen.

When I was out street-preaching last weekend, I met an honest-to-goodness Hellbount Atheist who wanted to "debate". I asked him what was his basis for morality if he doesn't believe in God or the Bible. He told me that he empathizes with others -- he knows that an action towards another is wrong if he would not like for someone else to do it to him. He gave as an example that he knows that it is wrong to kill others for pleasure because he doesn't want to be killed, and because he doesn't want anyone to kill someone he cares about.

I swiftly rebuked this Hellbound sinner with God's admonishment against following your own conscience rather than God's written laws in Deuteronomy 29:19-20 (or if you prefer, here is the Brick Testament version).

Later however, I started thinking about what that evil Athian had said. At first, I couldn't quite point out what was specifically wrong with his argument. It almost seems reasonable that one could behave morally simply by empathizing with others and following one's God given conscience. I knew that there had to be a reason for the LORD's prohibition against letting my conscience be my guide, so I did what I always do when questions pop up in my head -- I cracked open my King James 1611 Bible, and I immediately found the answer, Amen.

Empathy and conscience only get you so far. They can tell you a few obvious things, but there are too many things that they get completely wrong. The Bible is the only authority on what is right and wrong.

Here are some examples of things that conscience and empathy tell me are ok, but the Bible clearly states as being wrong:

• I know a homosexual couple who have been in a committed, monogamous relationship for thirty years. They are honest and hardworking members of the community. They have an adopted son who grew up to be just as normal and well-adjusted as anyone else. They defy every off-the-wall stereotype of gays that the American Family Association has ever thought up. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that homosexuality is ok, and that gay marriage is nothing to be afraid of. I need the Bible to tell me that it is wrong. (Leviticus 20:13 - Brick Testament; Romans 1:26-27)
• In my experience, women seem to be just as intelligent and capable as men. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that women and men are equals and that women deserve just as much dignity and respect as men do. I need the Bible to tell me that women are to be subjugated before men, and that men are to have dominion over women (1 Peter 3:1-6; Ephesians 5:22-24; 1 Timothy 2:11-15).
• I know many nonchristians who live happy, productive lives. They love their families, and they are honest and hardworking. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that it doesn't matter what, if any, religion people follow, and that we should all try to just get along. I need the Bible to tell me that nonchristians are all antichrists (2 John 7) to be shunned (2 Cor.6:14-17), and if they ever try to deconvert a Christian, I am required to kill them. (Dt.13:6-10)
• I've seen people eat pork, oysters, catfish, crablegs, crawfish, lobster, clams, scallops, fried calamari, etc. without ill effect. I have eaten of each item listed before I was saved -- they are all delicious. If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I wouldn't have a clue that there was anything morally wrong with eating pork or shellfish. I need the Bible to inform me of that (Leviticus 11:7-10, Brick Testament).
• If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that I should love my family. However, the Bible clearly states that I should hate my family if I want to follow Jesus. (Luke 14:26; Matthew 10:21, 35-37)

This cuts both ways. Here are some examples of things that conscience and empathy tell me are wrong, but the Bible states that as being ok:

• If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that genocide is wrong. However, the Bible lists many stories where the LORD commands genocide. (Deuteronomy 7:1-6 - Brick Testament - Instructions for Genocide)
• If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that slavery is wrong. However, the Bible clearly condones slavery. (Titus 2:9-10; Ephesians 6:5; 1 Timothy 6:1)
• If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that peace is good and war is wrong, but the Bible says that the LORD is a man of war (Exodus 15:3), and that Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword (Matthew 10:34).

I would also have been likely to come to several incorrect conclusions about the morality of rape.

• If I relied on my own empathy and conscience, I would probably conclude that rape was always wrong, and that it is one of the worst crimes a person could commit against another. The Bible does indeed prescribe the death penalty for the unsanctioned rape of a betrothed woman. However, the Biblical penalty for the unsanctioned rape of an unbetrothed female is a mere slap on the wrist. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29, Brick Testament).
• I would also have been likely to come the the conclusion that in all rape cases, only the rapist was guilty guilty of wrong-doing. However, the Bible tells me that if the "victim" fails to cry out, then it is because she enjoyed it. In these cases, it is fornication, not rape, and the so-called "rapist" and "victim" are equally guilty. According to the Bible, "no" only really means "no" when she cries out loudly for help. (Dt. 22:23-24)
• Further, I would have never imagined that there would ever be a time that rape would be considered a good thing. I would have been grievously wrong, because God often commands his Christian soldiers to rape the virgin women of a village after they have killed all the men, boys, and non-virgin women (Numbers 31 - Brick Testament).

Friends, what the Word of God says and what your conscience tell you will frequently be in conflict. Being saved and having faith means ignoring your conscience and following Jesus, Amen.

Praise Jesus!
Pastor Billy-Reuben

[Pastor Isaac Peters]

Thank you so much for re-posting that. That is truly inspired preaching by someone who clearly loves God's Word.

[Brother Love]

Absolutely a beautiful sermon here friend. Praise the Lord! We can't and shouldn't rely on our own being to tell us what is right or wrong cuz we be fallen creatures in a fallen and dark world. We MUST rely on the Bible, God's Word (KJV1611 ONLY) to tell us what is right and what is wrong. If we rely on our own selves then we goin to get lost in sin and abomination cuz Satan be everwhere tryin to trick us.

[ISuckTheWiiUp]

All this time, I've been following my conscience... I NEED to get a Bible (KJV ) ASAP.

Also, if you look at conscience, just noticed, randomly... Conscience

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by ISuckTheWiiUp

All this time, I've been following my conscience... I NEED to get a Bible (KJV ) ASAP.

Also, if you look at conscience, just noticed, randomly... Conscience

The Word of God can be had for free if you just visit your local Independant Baptist Church and ask the Pastor for one. Make sure you ask specifically for a KJV1611 Authorized Version Bible.

Also you can read one online at www.biblegateway.com. And for your assisted reading pleasure, Brother V has got a wonderful thread going HERE called "Bible in a Year."


Good luck!

[Magnum Innominandum]

Originally Posted by Pastor Billy-Reuben

The Bible does indeed prescribe the death penalty for the unsanctioned rape of a betrothed woman. However, the Biblical penalty for the unsanctioned rape of an unbetrothed female is a mere slap on the wrist. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29, Brick Testament.

You've hit the nail or fabled G-spot upon the head, as always. I've been raped many times, and so I can witness to the immense gulf between sanctioned and unsanctioned rapers. There was a tremendous difference between the rapers the doorman let in and the porch monkeys climbing the fire escape.

I am a redhead, and our species is often referred to in parts of Europe as those who burned Jerusalem. (Tangentially -- Adolf, too, had a thing for Barbarossa.) Seeking the sole remaining Aramaic-speaking village by bus from Damascus, I got lost and ended up in a hamlet of Sand Negroes where most everyone had once been exterminated by Crusaders (Praise!).

Desperately needing to urinate and not wanting to pull my tallywacker out in public, I strode into the ruins of some castle to relieve myself. Finished with my business, I was on my way back out when I encountered two prepubescent Sand Negroes. Both had accidents and soaked their Adidas.

Pitying them was cause for reflection -- because they were suffused with folk tales about what the Godly Crusaders had done to their ancestors, I represented a primordial threat to these small savages. Their great-grandmothers had no doubt passed down tales about large pale people with ruddy beards indulging in slaughter -- when the actual white persons of yore and lore were merely engaged in liberation.

The lesson to me was that (a) all savages are childlike and should be treated as such, and (b) one can always slam them against the wall and explain. Even in the supposedly enlightened metropolises rife with white metrosexuals, there are women who are so degraded by secular liberalism that they can't tell the difference between sanctioned and unsanctioned rape, for example. If they were properly betrothed, their husbands could help them make the distinction.

Sincerely,
Magna, née Magnus

[Petal]

i gives this classick thread a 2009 bump, cuz Pastor Billy-Rooobin preach them timeless true christain™ truths

[H. Montague Worthington]

Originally Posted by Petal

i gives this classick thread a 2009 bump, cuz Pastor Billy-Rooobin preach them timeless true christain™ truths

Thank you Petal, and thank you Pastor Billy R! I read this thread aloud to my wife Delores, and we both said a prayer of thanks for the wisdom we received from hearing these wise words spoken again, particularly at the start of a new year.

BLESSINGS!

[Jeb Stuart Thurmond]

I think I found a perfect picture for your perfect sermon. It's from a Church I visited once in Alabama:

[Elizabeth]

If you were looking at a blue piece of paper, but the Bible told you were looking at a red piece of paper, which would you believe?

If you answer blue, you are using reason, which is supposedly the greatest enemy of faith.

If you answer red, you are absolutely retarded.

[Ugly_Kid_Joe]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

If you were looking at a blue piece of paper, but the Bible told you were looking at a red piece of paper, which would you believe?

If you answer blue, you are using reason, which is supposedly the greatest enemy of faith.

If you answer red, you are absolutely retarded.

Where in the Bible do you see that a blue piece of paper is actually red?
Please do quote it.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

If you were looking at a blue piece of paper, but the Bible told you were looking at a red piece of paper, which would you believe?

If you answer blue, you are using reason, which is supposedly the greatest enemy of faith.

If you answer red, you are absolutely retarded.

You are being ridiculous, Elizabeth. Your argument is basically this: If the Bible says something that I know for a fact isn't true, would I believe the Bible anyway? For that argument to work, there would have to be something in the Bible that is false, but there isn't. If the premise of an "if" statement is false, then the conclusion is utterly meaningless. Simple predicate calculus can tell you that.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[JennyD]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

If you were looking at a blue piece of paper, but the Bible told you were looking at a red piece of paper, which would you believe?

If you answer blue, you are using reason, which is supposedly the greatest enemy of faith.

If you answer red, you are absolutely retarded.

How exactly would the Bible know what color piece of paper I'm looking at? And how do you know that I'm not partially colorblind?

There are so many unanswered questions, Elizabeth.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Pastor Billy-Reuben

You are being ridiculous, Elizabeth. Your argument is basically this: If the Bible says something that I know for a fact isn't true, would I believe the Bible anyway? For that argument to work, there would have to be something in the Bible that is false, but there isn't. If the premise of an "if" statement is false, then the conclusion is utterly meaningless. Simple predicate calculus can tell you that.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

Well, according to your observations in your original post, gay people and non-Christians can live normal, happy lives without being a detriment to society, women are equal to men, and eating shellfish won't kill you.

I am just trying to show you that listening to the Bible when your observations clearly show you otherwise is absolutely ridiculous.

[Pastor Billy-Reuben]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Well, according to your observations in your original post, gay people and non-Christians can live normal, happy lives without being a detriment to society, women are equal to men, and eating shellfish won't kill you.

I am just trying to show you that listening to the Bible when your observations clearly show you otherwise is absolutely ridiculous.

The Bible doesn't say that gay people and non-Christians can't live normal, happy lives without being a detriment to society -- it says that God thinks their lifestyle is an abomination.

The Bible doesn't say that women aren't as capable as men -- it says that God wants women to obey men.

The Bible doesn't say that eating shellfish will kill you -- it says that God doesn't want us to eat them.

So you have yet to provide me an example where the Bible contradicts my own observations.

Pastor Billy-Reuben

[James Hutchins]

Pastor, I want to thank you for stating the truths. So many naysayers in the world today and it only seems to be getting worse. Why don't people take the time to read the Bible? To of read it and removed all doubt is such a weight off of my mind. Faced with new situations from time to time, I already know what is the right thing to do.
Praise Jesus...Amen

[A Follower]

The atheist empathy argument is easy to refute.

I will give an example:
Suppose an atheist kid gets bullied at school, he gets depressed and ends up with suicidal thoughts. At that moment his empathy and conscience tell him not only that he wants to die, but that all other people must also want to die. The result? Yet another school shooting by an atheist.

[Simon Tam]

Follow your conscience it wil not steer you wrong.

[Pastor Ezekiel]

Originally Posted by Simon Tam

Follow your conscience it wil not steer you wrong.

Wrong again, simple simon.

He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool: but whoso walketh wisely, he shall be delivered.
Proverbs 28:26

We follow God. Everyone should.

[GOD=life]

Haha, such people will make the argument that we should think and consider rational thought to guide us, yet when the pastor makes the valid argument that we use the ultimate rational resource (The KJV 1611 Bible), they say "no no, follow your conscience".

Great argument, guys. What if your conscience tells you it's OK to murder people? Wow, aren't you glad the depraved serial killer followed his conscience instead of the Bible?