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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 12:02 PM

If Ksevio is engaged in Id worship, then the prayer experience will be like a reflex reaction. Imagine accidentally grabbing the wrong end of a hot, red poker.










After a while (e.g. ¼ second) your hand begins to feel a throbbing sensation. One part of us deals with reflexes (the part that is associated with the Id). Another part of us feels pain. God has arranged for the reflexes to be quick, because he loves us.

It takes a little while for a thought to form, just as it takes a little time for the throbbing in my hand to penetrate - because the same part of us does both things. It also evokes the fuzzy feelings Ksevio probably experiences when "going to the source".

There is another part, too - but Ksevio doesn't use that, as posted comments very clearly reveal. If we knew how long between the "prayer" experience and Ksevio's subsequent "from the source" experience we could be of more help, I am certain.
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post
So, how exactly should we understand commandments like, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"?

Metaphorically?
The same book also states:
Exodus 20:13: Thou shalt not kill.

Maybe Exodus 22:18 means we should not let her suffer life as a witch and remove Satan from her life, that would be in line with both statements.

Quote:
There are many ancient Greek manuscripts that say essentially the same thing as the KJV.
Even that shows that there are differences between the translations. English isn't a very clear language, it's easy to interpret one sentence in many ways.
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
The same book also states:
Exodus 20:13: Thou shalt not kill.

Maybe Exodus 22:18 means we should not let her suffer life as a witch and remove Satan from her life, that would be in line with both statements.


Even that shows that there are differences between the translations. English isn't a very clear language, it's easy to interpret one sentence in many ways.
This, I feel, betrays a profound misunderstanding of the Bible. What Exodus 20:13 means is that thou shalt not kill except in certain situations where God deems it OK.

It is alright to kill murderers:

"He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death. And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver him into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place whither he shall flee. But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die." Exodus 21:12-14

"And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death." Leviticus 24:17

"And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death." Leviticus 24:21

Adulterers:

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." Leviticus 20:10

"If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." Deuteronomy 22:22-24

And, of course, as you already pointed out, witches.


"Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him." Matthew 21:31-32

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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 04:37 PM

So why aren't you out stoning adulterers? I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities to do so that you could find.

Jesus spoke of making peace - I don't think killing people is very peaceful, no matter what they've done.
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
So why aren't you out stoning adulterers? I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities to do so that you could find.
If you read the Bible instead of imagining what it would say, if only it would say what YOU want it to say, you wouldn't ask these questions.

God's Word commands us to be subject to the secular laws of our respective nations. Until we re-establish a Christian nation, executing adulterers is not legal. Therefore, it would be sinful to execute adulterers.

Quote:
Jesus spoke of making peace - I don't think killing people is very peaceful, no matter what they've done.
If you read the Bible instead of imagining what it would say, if only it would say what YOU want it to say, you wouldn't make such ridiculous statements.

When Jesus returns, He will rule the nations "with a rod of iron". He will slaughter 1/3 of humanity. (See Revelation.)

He also stated the exact opposite of what you claim:

Matthew 10:34

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.


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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
So why aren't you out stoning adulterers? I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities to do so that you could find.
We don't stone adulterers because Christians must obey secular law:

Romans 13:1-2: Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

But on that blessed day when secular law is replaced with God's Law, things will be a little different.

Quote:
Jesus spoke of making peace - I don't think killing people is very peaceful, no matter what they've done.
Jesus also spoke of the following:

Luke 19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

Also, in case you think Jesus did away with the entire Mosaic Law, note the following:

Matt. 5:17-19: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
So why aren't you out stoning adulterers? I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities to do so that you could find.

Jesus spoke of making peace - I don't think killing people is very peaceful, no matter what they've done.
Because God tells us we must obey secular law.
Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Romans 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Romans 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Romans 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

Titus 3:1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1st Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
1st Peter 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

If we can remove the US constitution and all of it's laws and replace them with the Word of God, the KJV1611, we then can resume the stoning off sinners, whores, witches, non believers and queers. Remember vote Huckabee/Palin in 2012
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
So why aren't you out stoning adulterers? I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities to do so that you could find.
Because God tells us not to:

Hebrews 13:17
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves:

Quote:
Jesus spoke of making peace - I don't think killing people is very peaceful, no matter what they've done.
Have you ever read the Bible??

For starters, you should read these verses:

Matthew 21:12, Mark 11:15 and John 2:8




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Ephesians 5:23_(King James Version)"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 05:08 PM

We do not stone adulterers as we follow the Bible:
Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

Those that presently rule over us prohibit stoning. When a Theocracy comes to the USA, this will no longer be the case.

Jesus spoke of making peace after, and only after the entire world was Christian : Luke 19:27 refers.

Neither God nor I am particularly bothered what you think. God does our thinking and he approves of killing in war, in self-defense, as a just punishment and for crimes against God.






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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 05:23 PM

But that would mean that God would APPROVE of killing fellow Christians, just because they lived in a hostile nation! No loving God would require a man to kill his own brother over politics.

Is it more sinful to violate the law (which violates the Bible) or violate the bible directly?
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
But that would mean that God would APPROVE of killing fellow Christians, just because they lived in a hostile nation! No loving God would require a man to kill his own brother over politics.
Were you addressing anybody's comment in particular?

And who said God loves everybody? The Bible explains in detail many different sorts of people God hates, including all those who do not follow Him in the ways He commands.

Quote:
Is it more sinful to violate the law (which violates the Bible) or violate the bible directly?
There is no such thing as "more sinful" in God's eyes. Any sin is sufficient to damn you to an eternity in His Lake of Fire.


Bible boring? Nonsense!
Try Bible in a Year with Brother V, or join Shirlee and the kids as they discuss Real Bible Stories!
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 05:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
But that would mean that God would APPROVE of killing fellow Christians, just because they lived in a hostile nation! No loving God would require a man to kill his own brother over politics.

Is it more sinful to violate the law (which violates the Bible) or violate the bible directly?
God isn't JUST a loving God.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

And a sin is a sin is a sin. They're all equal.

Except blasphemy. That's the only sin you can't repent from.


"Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him." Matthew 21:31-32

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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 05:37 PM

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Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
But that would mean that God would APPROVE of killing fellow Christians, just because they lived in a hostile nation! No loving God would require a man to kill his own brother over politics.
Do you remember the story of Abraham and Isaac? If God came to you and told you to kill your son, would you go along with what God said, or would you say "No loving God would require a man to kill his own son for no apparent reason" and continue worshipping yourself?


O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it--for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.


God being truth, justice, goodness, beauty, power, and life, man is falsehood, iniquity, evil, ugliness, impotence, and death. God being master, man is the slave. Incapable of finding justice, truth, and eternal life by his own effort, he can attain them only through a divine revelation... he who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 05:51 PM

Or course I wouldn't kill him.
1. God said thou shalt not kill, especially an innocent person like my son.
2. God said not to us humans in sacrafice
3. Killing one's son is not a good thing to do

If you would be willing to kill your own son in ignorance of those reasons, then you are a horrible and sinful person who belongs in the depths of hell.
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
Or course I wouldn't kill him.
1. God said thou shalt not kill, especially an innocent person like my son.
2. God said not to us humans in sacrafice
3. Killing one's son is not a good thing to do

If you would be willing to kill your own son in ignorance of those reasons, then you are a horrible and sinful person who belongs in the depths of hell.
So, you would disobey a direct order from God because you don't think it's "a good thing to do"?

Say, could you point out exactly where God said not to use humans in sacrifices?

Seriously. You have asserted that God said not to sacrifice humans to Him. Show me where the Bible says it is wrong to sacrifice humans to God.

Then read Judges 11 and tell me again how God condemns human sacrifice. (You can just start at verse 30 if you want to be lazy and not understand Jephthah's backstory.)


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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 06:16 PM

Deuteronomy 18:10: There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Kings 21:6 And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

If God wants someone dead, He's certainly powerful enough to make it happen by Himself.
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 06:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
Deuteronomy 18:10: There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Kings 21:6 And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

If God wants someone dead, He's certainly powerful enough to make it happen by Himself.
Of course he is. What's your point?




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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
Deuteronomy 18:10: There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
Kings 21:6 And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

If God wants someone dead, He's certainly powerful enough to make it happen by Himself.
Yes, He makes millions of unsaved children die of starvation, dysentery, and other treatable conditions each year. What's your point?

What you have referenced, "making son or daughter pass through the fire", is a reference to sacrifices to Ba'al, not to God. It is a sin to sacrifice your children to false gods. That's not the same as God declaring it sinful to sacrifice humans to Him.

Did you read Judges 11, or did you decide to skip that?


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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 09:41 PM

Well the part of the bible where God says not to kill people clearly overrides that.

The 6th command says: Thou shalt not kill
It doesn't say: Though shalt not kill*

*except when you don't like people.
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Default Re: Ignorance through God - 10-07-2010, 09:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Ksevio View Post
Well the part of the bible where God says not to kill people clearly overrides that.

The 6th command says: Thou shalt not kill
It doesn't say: Though shalt not kill*

*except when you don't like people.
And PeTA claims that "thou shalt not kill" also includes animals.

Funny how if you keep reading, God goes on about a whole bunch of rules that demand the death penalty, usually by public stoning.

Oh, and can you explain where in the Bible it say's one part overrides another part? The only ones I can think of are the very few OT laws that were overwritten in the NT.


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Proverbs 13:24(KJV): "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
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