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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 09:03 AM

________________________

Perhaps if you can show that the KJV exclusively teaches universalism, but I doubt it.


Now, now, Levi, let’s not start adding words to what I said. I did not use the word “exclusively” did I?



A few commas and different synonyms that are different in various translations do not make it uninspired.

No, a few commas and different synonyms that are different here and there do not make it uninspired, but then again, I haven’t said that, have I? In fact, I have yet been given a chance to provide any of the evidence.
Looks to me that some of you are not as open minded as I had first thought.


You come here and attack the KJV, but you offer nothing in terms of what you believe to be better.

Ditto above.



I try not to speak on subjects I know little about.


Oh, I think you’re speaking quite a bit about subjects you think you know a lot about all right. It was Mark Twain (I believe) who said, paraphrase:


“The problem is not what you know but what you think you know that ain’t so.”



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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 09:14 AM

________________________

The idea that other religions are included as a path to Salvation and permissible.

Not my definition at all.

That the Bible is not inspired unless you can read the Greek or the Hebrew.

The Bible can be inspired whether or not someone can read Greek or Hebrew. The two are mutually exclusive. Aren’t they?

Then, could you actually say what you are advocating? All I'm seeing from you is a lot of tearing things down. I'm not seeing any ideas.

And what I see is a lot of tearing what I am saying down.

What is it with you guys' love affair with the KJV?

I’ve advocating quite a few things here, but you’re so busy attacking what I have to say, that you can’t see them.

Boy, I can see I came in and rattle your cages, rocked your boat, upset your apple cart, spoiled your picnic, rained on your parade, all in less than 120 mins. or so.

LMHO

Chill out would ya? I'm not your enemy.

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I'm going to take a walk. It's nice out where I am.

Thanks for the discourse, catch you all later.

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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 09:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeruxR View Post
Haven't been given a chance either, have I?
I believe I asked you to provide some evidence for your claim when I originally posted in this thread.

Quote:
Handy little gimmick there I see: make a claim that the KJV is the inspired word of God, and then impose the burden of proof that it isn't on others.
From wickedpedia:

Quote:
When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on him or her making a claim.[1] This burden does not demand a mathematical or strictly logical proof (although many strong arguments do rise to this level such as in logical syllogisms), but rather demands an amount of evidence that is established or accepted by convention or community standards.[2][3] This burden of proof is often asymmetrical and typically falls more heavily on the party that makes either an ontologically positive claim, or makes a claim more "extraordinary",[4] that is farther removed from conventionally accepted facts.
I would make the argument that on this forum, it is a conventionally accepted fact that the KJV is inspired (or, at the very least, perfectly preserves the inspiration of His word). You have made a claim that it is full of errors, which goes against the conventionally accepted fact here that the KJV is perfect. Therefore, the burden of proof lies with you.


Quote:
Who says the KJV is the inspired word God, you?
Myself, most others here and many prominent Baptist thinkers.

Quote:
Show me the verse where the Bible says: "The KJV is the inspired word of God" and I'll forever hold my peace.

Even the KJV says: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God ...." And, in the original language, that was written about 1600 years before the KJV came out.
Again, a valid concern. But why don't we take a look at some scripture that shows how much importance God Himself places on original documents? Lets start by going through the book of Jeremiah.

"So the king sent Jehudi to fetch the roll: and he took it out of Elishama the scribe's chamber. And Jehudi read it in the ears of the king, and in the ears of all the princes which stood beside the king." Jeremiah 36:21

Here is the roll Jeremiah has originally written. Lets call it Original #1.

"And it came to pass, that when Jehudi had read three or four leaves, he cut it with the penknife, and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the roll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth." Jeremiah 36:23

Original #1 gets destroyed.

"Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words." Jeremiah 36:32

Jeremiah makes a copy of Original #1. He's close enough to the source where I think it would be fair to call it Original #2. Jeremiah 45-51 goes on to show us what was on the scroll.

"The word which Jeremiah the prophet commanded Seraiah the son of Neriah, the son of Maaseiah, when he went with Zedekiah the king of Judah into Babylon in the fourth year of his reign. And this Seraiah was a quiet prince. So Jeremiah wrote in a book all the evil that should come upon Babylon, even all these words that are written against Babylon. And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When thou comest to Babylon, and shalt see, and shalt read all these words;" Jeremiah 51:59-61

Jeremiah gives Original #2 to Seraiah and tells him to read it when he goes to Babylon. But then this happens!

"And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates:" Jeremiah 51:63

So Original #2 gets destroyed, and this begs the question as to how we are able to read it in the Bible today. I think the answer to that question is God doesn't particularly care about the original documents, so long as the Word is preserved.

As to a more in-depth analysis as to why the KJV specifically is the only perfect Bible, I believe Brother Barton has already cleared that up.

Quote:
Reminds me of that saying we used to hear: "If the KJV was good enough for Paul, it's good enough for me." LOL
The best jokes are those with elements of truth in them.

Quote:
I think the burden of proof is on those who make your claim.
I believe I've explained adequately that the burden of proof lies on you here, friend.

Quote:
However, I will show, in the coming days, many of the errors in the KJV. And those errors will be my evidence that the KJV is not the inspired scriptures.
I for one am waiting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeruxR View Post
I think we'd better define our terms.

What does the term universalism mean to you?
Perhaps I jumped the gun on that one, but I assumed you were referring to the doctrine of Universal reconciliation, or the idea that the punishment of sin is not everlasting. Maybe you could tell us what you meant by universalism?


Quote:
At least no one has started using ad hominem.
I promise that if you keep your arguments civil, I will be able to do the same.


"Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him." Matthew 21:31-32

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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 09:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeruxR View Post

Perhaps if you can show that the KJV exclusively teaches universalism, but I doubt it.

Now, now, Levi, let’s not start adding words to what I said. I did not use the word “exclusively” did I?
I added that as a qualifier to your offer. You offer, I counter. It's negotiating.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KeruxR View Post
A few commas and different synonyms that are different in various translations do not make it uninspired.

No, a few commas and different synonyms that are different here and there do not make it uninspired, but then again, I haven’t said that, have I? In fact, I have yet been given a chance to provide any of the evidence.
I am dying to see if you have a point, much less evidence to back it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeruxR View Post
Looks to me that some of you are not as open minded as I had first thought.
It looks like the red herring has been laid down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeruxR View Post
You come here and attack the KJV, but you offer nothing in terms of what you believe to be better.

Ditto above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KeruxR View Post
I try not to speak on subjects I know little about.


Oh, I think you’re speaking quite a bit about subjects you think you know a lot about all right. It was Mark Twain (I believe) who said, paraphrase:


“The problem is not what you know but what you think you know that ain’t so.”
I still await your evidence that the New Testament was ever written in Aramaic.

No, the Passion of the Christ will not suffice as evidence.


Christians are superior because we possess an understanding that unbelievers lack. It is through the Power of Jesus only the converted mind is able to understand what is going on in the world; what the Communists are really up to; what Satan's intentions are. Most unbelievers do not even believe in Satan and cannot understand his tactics.



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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 09:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeruxR View Post
I’ve advocating quite a few things here, but you’re so busy attacking what I have to say, that you can’t see them.

Boy, I can see I came in and rattle your cages, rocked your boat, upset your apple cart, spoiled your picnic, rained on your parade, all in less than 120 mins. or so.
Its not that you've rattled our cage, but we can't really have a meaningful discussion of the concerns you've brought up if you don't back them up in any way, now can we?


"Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him." Matthew 21:31-32

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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 06:22 PM

_________________________

From Lycia:

I would make the argument that on this forum, it is a conventionally accepted fact that the KJV is inspired (or, at the very least, perfectly preserves the inspiration of His word). You have made a claim that it is full of errors, which goes against the conventionally accepted fact here that the KJV is perfect. Therefore, the burden of proof lies with you.

Like I said, I can handle the burden. However, just because you and a thousand other prominent Baptist leaders believe something, doesn't make it so.
___________________


So Original #2 gets destroyed, and this begs the question as to how we are able to read it in the Bible today. I think the answer to that question is God doesn't particularly care about the original documents, so long as the Word is preserved.

So long as the Word is preserved. That is the deal breaker, isn't it? The meat of the matter.

I contend that the Word has been altered and because you, me or a thousand prominent Baptists "thinkers" are not Hebrew or Greek scholars, we have all be taking someone else's word as to preservation - haven't we? How do you know the word has been preserved? Because someone told you it was preserved? Or because you checked the source for your self and confirmed your belief?

Again:

I Thessalonians 5:20, 21 Do not despise expounding of scripture, but scrutinize all things. Hold fast that which is right.

________________

Maybe you could tell us what you meant by universalism?

By universalism I mean that the gospel or redemption or salvation is offered universally - that is: to "whosoever" - "all" - "to the world" as in "For God so loved the world" et al.
___________________

Its not that you've rattled our cage, but we can't really have a meaningful discussion of the concerns you've brought up if you don't back them up in any way, now can we?

Oh, I think I've rattled cages all right.

I've been busy fending off - what three of four of you watchmen ? - for the past few hours and have not had time to get to the evidence. It's been fun, and there is nothing better I'd like to do than discuss Scripture with fervent defenders of what they believe to be the TRUTH .....

However, I've been referred to previous "sermons" and need time to review that content before I reply. But reply, I will. Probably on a new thread.


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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 06:27 PM

From what i'm seeing, you randomly come to this Godly forum, and attack the KJV1611 Holy Bible. Why don't you just accept God's word, and stop arguing?


"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." 1 John 4:9

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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 06:37 PM

______________________

From Levi:

I am dying to see if you have a point, much less evidence to back it.

Oh, there is plenty of evidence to support the claim that the KJV is full of errors. So much so, that I’m surprised that you stalwart defenders of the Scriptures weren’t aware of them already.

I still await your evidence that the New Testament was ever written in Aramaic

I provided one point already: Christ and His disciples spoke Aramaic – not Greek. As I said, it would have been quite natural for them to write in their native tongue – and not Greek. The Greek copies would have come later, because there would have been a need for just that – copies.

Where is your evidence that the originals were written in Greek?

No, the Passion of the Christ will not suffice as evidence.

Why not? The script has the actors using the language of the day. You're telling us that the writers leap frogged over their native tongue to Greek?


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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 06:50 PM

___________________________

Why don't you just accept God's word, and stop arguing? Dobbs

Oh, Mr. Dobbs, I fully and completely accept "God's word." 100%. (And arriving here was not a random act. I believe in the sovereignty of God, don't you?)

You apparently miss the point.

The point is: what exactly is God's word?

Most here obviously believe God's Word to be the KJV.

I for one, disagree. And I'm going to provide ample evidence to back up my belief.

For the record, I have yet to be shown any convincing evidence that the KJV is the "inspired word of God." All I have been told is what people here believe. And - like you have done - have been told to accept what others are telling me and get in the bandwagon.

Sorry, that doesn't work for me: I'm simply a believer in doing what God's word commands us to do:

"..... but scrutinize all things. Hold fast that which is right."

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched (examined) the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Acts 17:11

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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 07:05 PM

If you don't believe God's Word to be the KJV1611 Holy Bible, then what, pray tell, do YOU believe God's Word to be?


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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeruxR View Post
I don’t go to church; I am part of the body of Christ[…] However, with the technology that we have access to, I stay in touch with likeminded brethren on a regular basis through Skype and Teamviewer. Not perfect, but, under present circumstances, it’s the best I can do.
This is a theological difficulty, isn’t it? Whereas God speaks of us praying in private, when like-minded people get together, there is a fellowshipping, a joy in God and, before you know it, some small cult has established itself.

Moving on, Landover Baptist Church takes the Lord’s Word seriously.

Landover Baptist Faith and Message statement
"The Holy Bible, KJV1611, was written by men divinely inspired and is God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture therein is totally true and trustworthy.”

Which brings me to your next point.

I take issue with this:

Quote:
We also believe that the King James Bible is the only accurate English translation of God's Word.

The KJV is filled with errors, omissions and outright deceptions. Some scholars have counted at least 2,700 of such EODs. As time goes on, I'll provide the facts to support that contention, unless I get banned before given the opportunity that is, as I read I have no rights here. Which is fine. I don’t have to post here. There are dozens of forums that I can spend time on, so if you wish to ban me, go right ahead. I’ll wipe the dust off my sandals and move on.
Son, KJV1611 is God’s last revelation of His Word. Any differences between what you think is the correct version and what is the correct version are dismissed and KJV1611 is inerrant.

Even if you still disagree with God, I'm sure you will find it easier and more convenient to accept KJV1611 rather than start your own cult with your own bible.





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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 07:22 PM

______________________________

If you don't believe God's Word to be the KJV1611 Holy Bible, then what, pray tell, do YOU believe God's Word to be? Dobbs

Before I respond, I think it's time to move this discussion to another forum / thread.

Any suggestions as to which one, anyone?

Bible Study / Teaching His Word?

False Religions and Cults?

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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 07:27 PM

_________________________

I'm sure you will find it easier and more convenient to accept KJV1611 rather than start your own cult with your own bible.
E.Bathfire

You mean it would be easier for me to just accept an existing cult centered around the AKJV-1611 ?

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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 07:32 PM

__________________________

Missed this:

Son, KJV1611 is God’s last revelation of His Word. Any differences between what you think is the correct version and what is the correct version are dismissed and KJV1611 is inerrant.


So, no matter what, any errors that can be shown will be dismissed out of hand by - you? or others here ?

So, this is a KJV1611 cult of some sort that goes by the name of Landover Baptist Church?

btw: if you knew my age, you might not refer to me as "Son."

___
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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeruxR View Post
Before I respond, I think it's time to ...
So far, you've said nothing against the 1611KJV that hasn't been said before... by better, more learned men than yourself. Our Bible is still here and none of those men are vindicated.

Since you overlooked my earlier post... I can only presume it's because you actually have nothing substantive to share with us ...I'm not sure what to make of you. I think many of us are eager for you to get on with your supposed details and facts. When will you begin posting any of this?
Colossians 3:23 "And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;"

Proverbs 12:24 "The hand of the diligent shall bear rule: but the slothful shall be under tribute."

Proverbs 13:4 "The soul of the sluggard desireth, and [hath] nothing: but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat."
God doesn't want you to procrastinate! Your slothful ways do not glorify Him, do they?



Revelations 6:16
"And said to the mountains and rocks,
Fall on us, and hide us from the face
of him that sitteth on the throne,
and from the wrath of the Lamb"
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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 08:26 PM

Kerux, I've read this entire thread before responding, and noticed patterns in your replies.

I have seen you repeatedly claim that the KJV is "rife with error", yet not produce a shred of evidence. When asked to present evidence, you claim that you "haven't had time" to present evidence.

It seems you've had 120 minutes to "rattle cages" and prove that Landover's members "are not open-minded". As evidence of this, you note that you have "fended off" three or four "watchmen". Yet in that 120 minutes, while "it was fun" for you to "rattle cages", you found no time to present even one of the several thousand errors you claim to know about in the KJV, or support your claims about languages of the Bible's original authorship.

You, sir, have a very large chip (of what, I refuse to speculate) on your shoulder. I see no evidence in your commentary of any desire to fellowship with us; instead, you wish to introduce into this congregation doubt in the veracity of God's Word.

You present yourself as a scholar of the Bible. However, you insist (without sources) that the entire New Testament was written in Aramaic, and the entire Old Testament in Hebrew. All evidence I've ever seen indicates that the entire New Testament was written in Koine Greek (a now-dead dialect), and while most of the Old was written in Hebrew, some portions, like large portions the Book of Daniel and the Book of Ezra, were written in Aramaic.

Incidentally, it would be most difficult to confuse Aramaic with Greek. Aramaic is a Semitic language, related to Hebrew.

It is clear from your inability to produce evidence of any sort, or to demonstrate even basic historical knowledge about the Bible, that you have never attended a seminary, have not studied Biblical history, and don't even know how to use Google.

I posit that you have no real Biblical knowledge, and are instead attempting to introduce doubt to our faith. You will not succeed.

Are you going to insist that you're a Bible-believing Christian? OK. I have an open mind, despite your accusations. I could be wrong about you.

Prove me wrong. Show us your evidence. No need to start a new thread somewhere else; this one where you've made your claims will do nicely. An admin can split a section off into a new thread if needed.


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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 11:17 PM

_________________________________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post

Kerux, I've read this entire thread before responding, and noticed patterns in your replies.

I have seen you repeatedly claim that the KJV is "rife with error", yet not produce a shred of evidence. When asked to present evidence, you claim that you "haven't had time" to present evidence.

It seems you've had 120 minutes to "rattle cages" and prove that Landover's members "are not open-minded". As evidence of this, you note that you have "fended off" three or four "watchmen". Yet in that 120 minutes, while "it was fun" for you to "rattle cages", you found no time to present even one of the several thousand errors you claim to know about in the KJV, or support your claims about languages of the Bible's original authorship.

You, sir, have a very large chip (of what, I refuse to speculate) on your shoulder. I see no evidence in your commentary of any desire to fellowship with us; instead, you wish to introduce into this congregation doubt in the veracity of God's Word.

You present yourself as a scholar of the Bible. However, you insist (without sources) that the entire New Testament was written in Aramaic, and the entire Old Testament in Hebrew. All evidence I've ever seen indicates that the entire New Testament was written in Koine Greek (a now-dead dialect), and while most of the Old was written in Hebrew, some portions, like large portions the Book of Daniel and the Book of Ezra, were written in Aramaic.

Incidentally, it would be most difficult to confuse Aramaic with Greek. Aramaic is a Semitic language, related to Hebrew.

It is clear from your inability to produce evidence of any sort, or to demonstrate even basic historical knowledge about the Bible, that you have never attended a seminary, have not studied Biblical history, and don't even know how to use Google.

I posit that you have no real Biblical knowledge, and are instead attempting to introduce doubt to our faith. You will not succeed.

Are you going to insist that you're a Bible-believing Christian? OK. I have an open mind, despite your accusations. I could be wrong about you.

Prove me wrong. Show us your evidence. No need to start a new thread somewhere else; this one where you've made your claims will do nicely. An admin can split a section off into a new thread if needed.
_________________________

You people are in an awful big hurry aren't you?

you found no time to present even one of the several thousand errors you claim to know about in the KJV, or support your claims about languages of the Bible's original authorship.

Never said there are "several thousand errors" I said some claim there are about 2700. Please, if we are to have a discussion, try to quote me accurately and not put words in my mouth.

you wish to introduce into this congregation doubt in the veracity of God's Word.

You said you "I've read this entire thread before responding." Did you miss where I said I believe in the word of God as inspired 100%? How many times do I have to say it?

Some of you appear unable to separate the Word of God from the KJV-1611.

Our disagreement is with some of the posters' take on the KJV that the translators of the KJV-1611 were infallible and that the KJV is the inspired word of God. Excuse me, but what you're saying is that God inspired the translators of the KJV of the Bible and not just the originals authors, like Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Solomon, Paul, Luke et al. That is some serious assertions - and to be frank - I've never heard of such a thing before posting my intro and getting these replies. Oh, I've run across people who joked about Paul using the KJV etc, but the KJV is inspired? I never thought anyone could believe such a thing.

It was not me who started this duel of the Scriptures. I made my introduction - posted my thoughts - and was immediately attacked for my views - for the views that disagreed with the established dogma.

You present yourself as a scholar of the Bible


I've done no such thing. Quite the opposite in fact. I'm a student - and have never said nor do I think otherwise.

On the other hand, I see posters here with titles like pastor so and so and reverend this and reverend that who are telling me I should accept what is the accepted dogma - as told by them - and let it be.

However, you insist (without sources) that the entire New Testament was written in Aramaic,

Again, wrong. I don't insist, I suggest. I said I wasn't convinced the NT originals were written in Koine Greek is all. I could be wrong. So far, the evidence I've seen has not convinced me one way or the other.

Show me the evidence that makes you insist the NT was written in Koine Greek. No one has done that, and I've asked at least once before and am asking again: show me the evidence that the NT was written originally in Koine Greek. I know that is the accepted wisdom, but again:

"21 but scrutinize all
things. Hold fast that which is right.

It is clear from your inability to produce evidence of any sort, or to demonstrate even basic historical knowledge about the Bible, that you have never attended a seminary, have not studied Biblical history, and don't even know how to use Google.

Inability to present the evidence? Oh, but I haven't yet had the time to present the evidence - and there is plenty, because every time I come back to the thread, there is another attack like yours. And you have attacked me - calling into question in the rudest way my lack of " historical knowledge about the Bible" that I have"never attended a seminary" (btw neither did Jesus Christ - do you hold that against him too?) And since when does attending seminary guarantee knowledge about the Bible? I know many people who attend school that are as ignorant of the Bible as the man on the street because of what they think they know.

You know very very little about me kind sir, and I suggest you hold your tongue until you do, so as to not embarrass yourself any further.

I could be wrong about you

Well, you got one thing right.

___

Since you overlooked my earlier post... (Barton)

Sorry, didn't see it.
____

All of you people are very very defensive. In attack mode. One poster here refers himself as a rottweiler. IMO, I've been found guilt before I've even presented any evidence.

___

I'm going to start here: http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showp...91&postcount=1

with this:

Seven easy ways to tell the True Bible from the false ones

"You don't need to be a scholar to tell which Bible is the true one. God never intended His words of truth to be known or understood only by the so called scholars. They don't agree among themselves as to which text to follow or how to render it in English once they agree as to the text - as it witnessed by the conflicting NAS,NIV and NKJV. Jesus tells us "Beware of the scribes..." and in 1 Cor. 1:19,20 "It is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" There is an easy, accessible way for every True Christian™ to test the multitude of conflicting Bible versions flooding the market today. Are they a true or a false witness? Mark 14:56 tells us: "For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together." In a court of law a false witness will sometimes or even usually tell the truth, but he betrays himself as a false witness by saying something either false, contradictory or absurd. So it is with the NKJ, NAS, NIV and all the other modern Bible versions competing for your money and your mind. So, Christian friend, I ask you to sit for a little while in the jury box, listen to the testimonies, and determine which one is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. "

________________________________

The author of this piece uses many words to say very little: but he does tell us "don't need to be a scholar to tell which Bible is the true one."

He is right about the first statement, you don't need to be a scholar to rightly divide the word of truth, but then right off the bat, he has made an error. He assumes one of the English translations we have today is the "true one." Where did he get such an idea? From Scripture? Where in Scripture does it say the KJV is the "true" Bible?

No where, that is where.

Secondly, the author tells us that Jesus tells us to ""Beware of the scribes..." All the scribes except the Masotertic and Texus Receptus scribes? And the translators who translated the KJV? Why are these scribes and translators excluded?

I say Jesus Christ would have us to be careful of all scribes and all translators - including the translators of the KJV.
____________________________

THE WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH
CHAPTER 1 – OF THE HOLY SCRIPTURE

This confession of faith was written a mere 30 years or so after the KJV was instituted. And these scholars did not even consider the KJV of the Bible to be by itself the inspired word of God, but admit instead the authority of the original languages.

to wit:

Section 8. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;17 so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them. 18 But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them.19 Therefore they are to be translated in to the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come,20 that the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner;21 and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.22

so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them.

"Them" being what they considered the original languages. Hebrew and Greek.

What we are dealing with here, the issue here is - is the KJV the inspired word of God? The authors of this Westminster confession, so soon after it's inception, make no such assertion and instead state the Original Languages - Hebrew and Greek - are to be in all controversies of religion, ...... finally to appeal (is to be made) unto them.

I make the same assertion: all controversies are to be appealed to the original languages and not to the KJV.

And here is the heart of the matter as I see it now that I've run through your gauntlet and observed a bit. It has just come to me. I've been out of touch with established religion for quite some time and it took a bit to comprehend the entire situation.

You established pastors and reverends must have the congregation use the KJV - because it was written specifically to support your titles, offices and authority.

My guess is I will be banned before I get the opportunity to go much further down the road you don't dare have your congregation go down.


_____

Note:

(This Westminster Confession being 1500 years after the original NT was written, I still am not convinced the originals were not written in Aramaic, but that is a separate topic.)

_________________
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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 11:31 PM

Quote:
And here is the heart of the matter as I see it now that I've run through your gauntlet and observed a bit. It has just come to me. I've been out of touch with established religion for quite some time and it took a bit to comprehend the entire situation.

You established pastors and reverends must have the congregation use the KJV - because it was written specifically to support your titles, offices and authority.
You condemn the KJV without offering any "superior" alternative.

You then claim it is written to support our positions. Bizarre, since there is no hierarchy in the New Testament, and Baptist churches' Pastors are approved by their congregations. We're not Catholic.

As I expected, your only purpose here is to introduce doubt and drive people from God.

Another tiresome atheist.


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Try Bible in a Year with Brother V, or join Shirlee and the kids as they discuss Real Bible Stories!
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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. M. Rodimer View Post
You condemn the KJV without offering any "superior" alternative.

You then claim it is written to support our positions. Bizarre, since there is no hierarchy in the New Testament, and Baptist churches' Pastors are approved by their congregations. We're not Catholic.

As I expected, your only purpose here is to introduce doubt and drive people from God.

Another tiresome atheist.
That's how it looks to me too. Only this atheist is full of 3 dollar words.

It's obvious that satan sent him here. Further evidence that we are God's favorite church.


Who Will Jesus Damn?

Here is a partial list from just a few scripture verses:

Hypocrites (Matthew 24:51), The Unforgiving (Mark 11:26), Homosexuals (Romans 1:26, 27), Fornicators (Romans 1:29), The Wicked (Romans 1:29), The Covetous (Romans 1:29), The Malicious (Romans 1:29), The Envious (Romans 1:29), Murderers (Romans 1:29), The Deceitful (Romans 1:29), Backbiters (Romans 1:30), Haters of God (Romans 1:30), The Despiteful (Romans 1:30), The Proud (Romans 1:30), Boasters (Romans 1:30), Inventors of evil (Romans 1:30), Disobedient to parents (Romans 1:30), Covenant breakers (Romans 1:31), The Unmerciful (Romans 1:31), The Implacable (Romans 1:31), The Unrighteous (1Corinthians 6:9), Idolaters (1Corinthians 6:9), Adulterers (1Corinthians 6:9), The Effeminate (1Corinthians 6:9), Thieves (1Corinthians 6:10), Drunkards (1Corinthians 6:10), Reviler (1Corinthians 6:10), Extortioners (1Corinthians 6:10), The Fearful (Revelation 21:8), The Unbelieving (Revelation 21:8), The Abominable (Revelation 21:8), Whoremongers (Revelation 21:8), Sorcerers (Revelation 21:8), All Liars (Revelation 21:8)

Need Pastoral Advice? Contact me privately at PastorEzekiel@landoverbaptist.net TODAY!!
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Default Re: "Men of Landover Baptist Church!" - 11-26-2010, 11:48 PM

__________________________

Going back over the posts above, I noticed the logical fallacy - appeal to authority was used by more than one poster, usually someone in a position of authority.

Appeal to Authority

Explanation

An appeal to authority is an argument from the fact that a person judged to be an authority affirms a proposition to the claim that the proposition is true.


Appeals to authority are always deductively fallacious; even a legitimate authority speaking on his area of expertise may affirm a falsehood, so no testimony of any authority is guaranteed to be true.


_______________


Here is some examples from the posts above:

many prominent Baptist thinkers.


So far, you've said nothingagainst the 1611KJV that hasn't been said before... by better, more learned men than yourself.

that you have never attended a seminary
(implying that those who have attended a seminary are more qualified than those who haven't)

_____________________

You condemn the KJV without offering any "superior" alternative. (Rodimer)

You must be kidding right Mr. M. Rodimer? I said several times the original languages Hebrew and Greek are the "superior" alternative - backed up by the Westminister Confession of Faith, for starters.

If I can show you even one or two errors in the KJV - then people are going to lose faith in the "inspired word of God" - which you claim is the KJV and these people will be lost to whatever it is that you are trying to do there at Landover. I suggest sir, that it is your stand, not mine, that is detrimental.

Now, I'm an atheist too?

______________
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